Painter’s Problem

[BoilerDeac]

Matt Painter on what Purdue needs to do to reach the Final Four in 2024:

"Don't turn the ball over. It's that simple. We had 20 turnovers on Saturday against Arkansas. If we can limit that to around 10 each game, we'll be in position to the control the game."

See, this is Painter’s problem. He makes it sound so simple. “Oh, we just need to stop turning it over.”

Hey, CMP…why do you think your teams constantly have increased turnovers against quick, athletic teams?

Maybe, just maybe, it’s because your own, unathletic teams get exposed against an athletic team that speeds you up.

CMP makes it seem like it’s some simple fix, when clearly it’s not, and clearly there’s a pattern of Purdue struggling when facing quicker, athletic teams.

 

[mathboy]

We’ve played plent of fast athletic teams and beaten them soundly, (1) if we don’t turn the ball over, and (2) the refs call the fouls on reach-in’s and arm grabs. It really is that simple, but the nature of the game and the relative pairity of top teams removes any sort of certainty of victory regardless of who we play.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Matt Painter on what Purdue needs to do to reach the Final Four in 2024:

"Don't turn the ball over. It's that simple. We had 20 turnovers on Saturday against Arkansas. If we can limit that to around 10 each game, we'll be in position to the control the game."

See, this is Painter’s problem. He makes it sound so simple. “Oh, we just need to stop turning it over.”

Hey, CMP…why do you think your teams constantly have increased turnovers against quick, athletic teams?

Maybe, just maybe, it’s because your own, unathletic teams get exposed against an athletic team that speeds you up.

CMP makes it seem like it’s some simple fix, when clearly it’s not, and clearly there’s a pattern of Purdue struggling when facing quicker, athletic teams.

Purdue has the personnel to keep turnovers low this year. If Lewis Jackson and the 2012 team can lead the nation in lowest turnover percentage, this group can do much better than the 20 turnovers on Saturday. Most of those turnovers were preventable. I have to agree with Painter on this one.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

We lose a scrimmage and 1/2 the population here loses their mind.
And then I watch Matt on the post game and he couldn't be more relaxed and unemotional about a scrimmage.
Cutting through the emotions (we LOST!!!) and focusing totally on the reasons why and what can be done about it.
The thing the boilers DIDN"T DO? Panic.
Gee I wonder where that came from.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

We lose a scrimmage and 1/2 the population here loses their mind.
And then I watch Matt on the post game and he couldn't be more relaxed and unemotional about a scrimmage.
Cutting through the emotions (we LOST!!!) and focusing totally on the reasons why and what can be done about it.
The thing the boilers DIDN"T DO? Panic.
Gee I wonder where that came from.

Lolol right? First game/real game experience and we played bad and still almost/shoulda won. I’m not sure what everyone expected…maybe to dominate and win by 20?

 

[Boiler Buck]

We’ve played plent of fast athletic teams and beaten them soundly, (1) if we don’t turn the ball over, and (2) the refs call the fouls on reach-in’s and arm grabs. It really is that simple, but the nature of the game and the relative pairity of top teams removes any sort of certainty of victory regardless of who we play.

That ref factor --- they can make an average pressing team dominant in a hurry. Was a factor several times last year, likely to be again this year once real games start and betting money intersects with corrupt referees.

 

[ImRonBurgandy?]

We lose a scrimmage and 1/2 the population here loses their mind.
And then I watch Matt on the post game and he couldn't be more relaxed and unemotional about a scrimmage.
Cutting through the emotions (we LOST!!!) and focusing totally on the reasons why and what can be done about it.
The thing the boilers DIDN"T DO? Panic.
Gee I wonder where that came from.

Ole Matty P's getting paid what 3.5-4mil this year, regardless. I'd be pretty relaxed too.

 

[Jbigler1986]

We lose a scrimmage and 1/2 the population here loses their mind.
And then I watch Matt on the post game and he couldn't be more relaxed and unemotional about a scrimmage.
Cutting through the emotions (we LOST!!!) and focusing totally on the reasons why and what can be done about it.
The thing the boilers DIDN"T DO? Panic.
Gee I wonder where that came from.

Painter is always relaxed. So many times he should have jumped down refs throat to stick up for his players. I would have gladly accepted a technical from him because he was letting the refs know that his players shouldn't be getting mauled.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Matt Painter on what Purdue needs to do to reach the Final Four in 2024:

"Don't turn the ball over. It's that simple. We had 20 turnovers on Saturday against Arkansas. If we can limit that to around 10 each game, we'll be in position to the control the game."

See, this is Painter’s problem. He makes it sound so simple. “Oh, we just need to stop turning it over.”

Hey, CMP…why do you think your teams constantly have increased turnovers against quick, athletic teams?

Maybe, just maybe, it’s because your own, unathletic teams get exposed against an athletic team that speeds you up.

CMP makes it seem like it’s some simple fix, when clearly it’s not, and clearly there’s a pattern of Purdue struggling when facing quicker, athletic teams.

We will see how serious he is about TOs next time Smith goes on a TO run......if he sits his but for extended minutes. Even with 7 the only thing that realy took him out of the game for extended time was an injury.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Painter is always relaxed. So many times he should have jumped down refs throat to stick up for his players. I would have gladly accepted a technical from him because he was letting the refs know that his players shouldn't be getting mauled.

Should have got T’d up at northwestern last year when Collins grabbed Loyer. Hell, Loyer shoulda got in Collins face after he did that and then got T’d up too.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

We will see how serious he is about TOs next time Smith goes on a TO run......if he sits his but for extended minutes. Even with 7 the only thing that realy took him out of the game for extended time was an injury.

I assume Lance would handle PG duties then. Tbh, Would like to see lance at PG while Braden sits a bit in general, just to get someone else more comfortable with running the offense so we don’t have to rely on Braden for 30+ mins every game all year.

 

[northside100]

I assume Lance would handle PG duties then. Tbh, Would like to see lance at PG while Braden sits a bit in general, just to get someone else more comfortable with running the offense so we don’t have to rely on Braden for 30+ mins every game all year.

Agree 100%, I expect that's what will happen. Posted earlier but my sense is Braden played so many minutes because MP sat Lance for poor shot selection, which IMO he was right to do. Hopefully that message registered with Lance.

In most games I suspect that Fletcher and Morton could combine to relieve Braden but I suspect that MP was hesitant to do the athleticism and physicality of Arkansas' defense.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

We will see how serious he is about TOs next time Smith goes on a TO run......if he sits his but for extended minutes. Even with 7 the only thing that realy took him out of the game for extended time was an injury.

Purdue is still a much better team on the court and I am not sure that he needs to be benched for trying to carry his team to victory. He’s a coachable kid from what I can see and I am confident that this will get ironed out. I love that he was aggressive and I think he just needs to play a little smarter.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I assume Lance would handle PG duties then. Tbh, Would like to see lance at PG while Braden sits a bit in general, just to get someone else more comfortable with running the offense so we don’t have to rely on Braden for 30+ mins every game all year.

He has options this year. LJ being one, depends on who we are playing. But allowing a 7 TO game sometimes, not all, might be on the coach for allowing it as much as the player. I would agree a team like ARK limits those options. But most teams do not posses their athletes and length.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Agree 100%, I expect that's what will happen. Posted earlier but my sense is Braden played so many minutes because MP sat Lance for poor shot selection, which IMO he was right to do. Hopefully that message registered with Lance.

In most games I suspect that Fletcher and Morton could combine to relieve Braden but I suspect that MP was hesitant to do the athleticism and physicality of Arkansas' defense.

Was wondering where you were 😂

your last sentence…is wild to me. It’s an exhibition!! Painter just play dudes and experiment. I get that it wasn’t a normal exhibition, blah blah blah. But maybe someone will surprise you and rise to the occasion. And if they don’t and Purdue loses by 15….it doesn’t matter since it’s an exhibition game.

To be fair, I think we are all overreacting to all these exhibitions/“secret scrimmages”. But IMO, I’d just like to see some experimentation with different lineups…in more than 1 game. Give them a chance and if they don’t work after a few times, then ok, go back to what you know. It’s OK to lose a few games early on in the season…they don’t matter as much as how well the team is playing in February and on.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Purdue is still a much better team on the court and I am not sure that he needs to be benched for trying to carry his team to victory. He’s a coachable kid from what I can see and I am confident that this will get ironed out. I love that he was aggressive and I think he just needs to play a little smarter.

Agree. But I was talking more about coach speak - than BS in particular.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

He has options this year. LJ being one, depends on who we are playing. But allowing a 7 TO game sometimes, not all, might be on the coach for allowing it as much as the player. I would agree a team like ARK limits those options. But most teams do not posses their athletes and length.

Yeah for sure. Braden’s worst game last year was the FDU game, but avg 2 TO all year…I think we will be ok with him. And if we are expecting that sophomore leap, I don’t think his TOs on a per game basis would increase significantly.

 

[northside100]

That ref factor --- they can make an average pressing team dominant in a hurry. Was a factor several times last year, likely to be again this year once real games start and betting money intersects with corrupt referees.

Agree with you and OP here, the officiating was a significant contributing factor. I'd argue that the goal should be for this team to be able to make it through that type of game and still get the win. We saw this in the NCAAT the last two years. Purdue beat a very talented Texas team fairly easily in part because UT played very physical (fouling and counting on it not being called) and was called for a hundred fouls. The next game a much less talented SPU team took the same approach, got away with it and JI lost his mind. FDU took the same approach, got away with it and Purdue couldn't hit an open shot.

I don't think you can count on avoiding a poorly called game six games in a row in the NCAAT.

 

[northside100]

Was wondering where you were 😂

your last sentence…is wild to me. It’s an exhibition!! Painter just play dudes and experiment. I get that it wasn’t a normal exhibition, blah blah blah. But maybe someone will surprise you and rise to the occasion. And if they don’t and Purdue loses by 15….it doesn’t matter since it’s an exhibition game.

To be fair, I think we are all overreacting to all these exhibitions/“secret scrimmages”. But IMO, I’d just like to see some experimentation with different lineups…in more than 1 game. Give them a chance and if they don’t work after a few times, then ok, go back to what you know. It’s OK to lose a few games early on in the season…they don’t matter as much as how well the team is playing in February and on.

Agree, I think that's a fair point. I don't know what MP's motivation was but I would guess (pure speculation) that it was some combination of 1) he wanted his team to have some level of success in the game following the FDU debacle 2) probably wanted Braden to have to play through this type of game where he's facing a really physical and athletic defense, getting fouled, etc.

 

[Carlboiler]

Purdue has more options this year they will be a athletic team

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Purdue has more options this year they will be a athletic team

Gotta play those options to be more athletic though

 

[tjreese]

Purdue has the personnel to keep turnovers low this year. If Lewis Jackson and the 2012 team can lead the nation in lowest turnover percentage, this group can do much better than the 20 turnovers on Saturday. Most of those turnovers were preventable. I have to agree with Painter on this one.

I know it doesn't happen and you want to give some credit to the D, but I think ALL turnovers are preventable, but you understand the reality is that although they truly are preventable they will happen and some matchups and playing style makes it more difficult than others, but I'm unaware of any turnover that had to happen...

 

[BoilerDeac]

We lose a scrimmage and 1/2 the population here loses their mind.
And then I watch Matt on the post game and he couldn't be more relaxed and unemotional about a scrimmage.
Cutting through the emotions (we LOST!!!) and focusing totally on the reasons why and what can be done about it.
The thing the boilers DIDN"T DO? Panic.
Gee I wonder where that came from.

Not losing my mind at all. Just noting that he says the same things over and over again, year after year, without actually changing much of anything.

 

[BoilerDeac]

E

Gotta play those options to be more athletic though

Exactly. Sticking with Gillis, Morton, and Loyer might raise the floor, but it'll cap the ceiling of what this team can be.

 

[northside100]

Gotta play those options to be more athletic though

I'd say it slightly differently, through practice and games those athletic options need to show that they can get to the point that they know wtf they are doing. That probably means them getting more PT than what MP is historically comfortable with but keeping MC on the floor when he's running around like a chicken with his head cut off on defense just reinforces poor performance.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

E

Exactly. Sticking with Gillis, Morton, and Loyer might raise the floor, but it'll cap the ceiling of what this team can be.

Loyer is one of the top 3 players on the team this season and I am surprised to see you group him in with the others.

I’m torn on Gillis. When he’s shooting confidently I think he’s the best fit to play with Edey, but I completely get why Painter is starting TKR. Regardless, I don’t see any scenario where he is out of the rotation this season.

Morton is the one of the three with the biggest question marks. I agree that he has limitations as an athlete and as a scorer. That said, the younger guys are going to have to do what it takes to take his minutes. It can happen and they will get the chance, but they will have to earn it. I think one (and possibly 2) of the three (Colvin, Heide, and Waddell) will step up and become a major contributor by year’s end.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I'd say it slightly differently, through practice and games those athletic options need to show that they can get to the point that they know wtf they are doing. That probably means them getting more PT than what MP is historically comfortable with but keeping MC on the floor when he's running around like a chicken with his head cut off on defense just reinforces poor performance.

Yeah I understand your point. Hopefully, Colvin, Heide and Waddell will figure it out as the season goes on and can play decent mins.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Loyer is one of the top 3 players on the team this season and I am surprised to see you group him in with the others.

I’m torn on Gillis. When he’s shooting confidently I think he’s the best fit to play with Edey, but I completely get why Painter is starting TKR. Regardless, I don’t see any scenario where he is out of the rotation this season.

Morton is the one of the three with the biggest question marks. I agree that he has limitations as an athlete and as a scorer. That said, the younger guys are going to have to do what it takes to take his minutes. It can happen and they will get the chance, but they will have to earn it. I think one (and possibly 2) of the three (Colvin, Heide, and Waddell) will step up and become a major contributor by year’s end.

Mason Gillis also has the leg up on end-of-game line-up due to FT shooting. Although sadly, that did not prevent that inexplicably poor decision at the end of regulation - truly remote smashing worthy.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Yeah I understand your point. Hopefully, Colvin, Heide and Waddell will figure it out as the season goes on and can play decent mins.

So far game 1 was ok, but I expect to see a balance of potential & just as much ugly, palm to the head play from the newbies.....their young. But got to get the floor time to work through that and gain experience.

 

[Riveting-]

I know it doesn't happen and you want to give some credit to the D, but I think ALL turnovers are preventable, but you understand the reality is that although they truly are preventable they will happen and some matchups and playing style makes it more difficult than others, but I'm unaware of any turnover that had to happen...

Every single one of them?

How about the ones where a guy gets hacked and loses the ball but the refs don't call it because they hate Purdue? Looking at it objectively, I see many of those every single game.

 

[pubill]

Should have got T’d up at northwestern last year when Collins grabbed Loyer. Hell, Loyer shoulda got in Collins face after he did that and then got T’d up too.

I never understand responses like this. I was a HS ref for 12-13 years, which is not college, but a coach or player never affected me to change the way I was calling the game. UNLESS, as there were a couple of times, I knew I blew a call and the coach went wild, I had to TO him, but told him after I was wrong. But if a coach was on me and I thought I was calling correctly and consistently, the coach jabbering at me , only made me want to call anything that was a 50-50 call against him. Maybe I was too thin skinned and vindictive, but I am sure some other refs felt the same, in fact we talked about it. Not sure why many just think if a coach gets a T, the way the game is called will change?

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I never understand responses like this. I was a HS ref for 12-13 years, which is not college, but a coach or player never affected me to change the way I was calling the game. UNLESS, as there were a couple of times, I knew I blew a call and the coach went wild, I had to TO him, but told him after I was wrong. But if a coach was on me and I thought I was calling correctly and consistently, the coach jabbering at me , only made me want to call anything that was a 50-50 call against him. Maybe I was too thin skinned and vindictive, but I am sure some other refs felt the same, in fact we talked about it. Not sure why many just think if a coach gets a T, the way the game is called will change?

I wasnt agreeing with that post, I was more so reminded of if Painter were to get T’d up, that should have been the time to do it.

Coach Collins came out on the floor and grabbed Loyer at the end of the Northwestern game, while we were actively trying to get into a set. Loyer turned and was like “wtf?” and pushed his arm off of him and got into the set since the clock was winding down. I don’t believe a coach can grab an opposing player while the game is going on, correct? What would you call if you saw that?

I wish Loyer would have gotten T’d up to bring attention to it because I’ve never seen a coach do that and hoped it would result in Collins getting a T.

I also don’t think when a coach gets T’d up it’ll change the course of the game.

 

[tjreese]

Every single one of them?

How about the ones where a guy gets hacked and loses the ball but the refs don't call it because they hate Purdue? Looking at it objectively, I see many of those every single game.

Yes, I was only thinking about when a ref was not a factor and was only considering your team and the other team. You are right though on those (refs) not being preventable. That is when you tell the ref you practice the kids and strive for perfection and you expect the same from them. In the Arkansas game you could tell Braden and Zach (maybe others) were telling the refs what was going on at times.

 

[77 grad]

Every single one of them?

How about the ones where a guy gets hacked and loses the ball but the refs don't call it because they hate Purdue? Looking at it objectively, I see many of those every single game.

 

[77 grad]

Every single one of them?

How about the ones where a guy gets hacked and loses the ball but the refs don't call it because they hate Purdue? Looking at it objectively, I see many of those every single game.

Every single one of them?

How about the ones where a guy gets hacked and loses the ball but the refs don't call it because they hate Purdue? Looking at it objectively, I see many of those every single game.

So, looking at it "objectively," we get bad calls because refs "hate" Purdue?

Keep the excuses coming.

 

[tjreese]

So, looking at it "objectively," we get bad calls because refs "hate" Purdue?

Keep the excuses coming.

He was just having fun

 

[Boileratthebeach]

We lose a scrimmage and 1/2 the population here loses their mind.
And then I watch Matt on the post game and he couldn't be more relaxed and unemotional about a scrimmage.
Cutting through the emotions (we LOST!!!) and focusing totally on the reasons why and what can be done about it.
The thing the boilers DIDN"T DO? Panic.
Gee I wonder where that came from.

Let's also keep in mind that this was effectively our "secret scrimmage", which wasn't televised or fan attended. Pretty sure we lost a couple of those...

 

[pubill]

Let's also keep in mind that this was effectively our "secret scrimmage", which wasn't televised or fan attended. Pretty sure we lost a couple of those...

 

[pubill]

I believe Carsen's Jr year we got waxed by WV in a secret scrimmage.

 

[bonefish1]

Agree with you and OP here, the officiating was a significant contributing factor. I'd argue that the goal should be for this team to be able to make it through that type of game and still get the win. We saw this in the NCAAT the last two years. Purdue beat a very talented Texas team fairly easily in part because UT played very physical (fouling and counting on it not being called) and was called for a hundred fouls. The next game a much less talented SPU team took the same approach, got away with it and JI lost his mind. FDU took the same approach, got away with it and Purdue couldn't hit an open shot.

I don't think you can count on avoiding a poorly called game six games in a row in the NCAAT.

Relying on refs to call a tight game is a poor strategy. Sure, we can argue that they're letting a team get away with all kinds of fouls, etc, but the team has to be prepared to play through that.