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OT - Nell Fortner

New Pal Boiler said:
Please produce a link showing WBB is profitable.
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When you say profitable, we have to agree about how the books are kept. For example, should a portion of depreciation and maintenance of Mackey be assigned to WBB? We have to have Mackey for MBB, so should MBB carry all Mackey costs?

How about the practice facility? Do we prorate those costs? How? The money we get from the BIG is a lump sum. How much of that revenue should be recognized as generated by the broadcast of WBB?

How do we decide WBB makes money or loses money? I can tell you that if the attendance is in the 10,000 range, you have a successful program, but with the price of tickets low, you might not be profitable.

:cool:
 
boilermaker75 said:
Because a certain AD refused to give her a pay bump after winning the National Championship.
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No.... Absolutely nothing to do with $$$$. Carolyn had signed a deal prior to that year with the WNBA start-up team in Florida to come in and be their GM and Head Coach. She didn’t want to leave Stephanie and Ukari in a lurch their Senior year as it would have meant them having a different HC each of their 4 years at Purdue so she got both Purdue and WNBA to allow her to coach that last year...Everyone knew she was gone before that year even started.
 
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mathboy said:
When you say profitable, we have to agree about how the books are kept. For example, should a portion of depreciation and maintenance of Mackey be assigned to WBB? We have to have Mackey for MBB, so should MBB carry all Mackey costs?

How about the practice facility? Do we prorate those costs? How? The money we get from the BIG is a lump sum. How much of that revenue should be recognized as generated by the broadcast of WBB?

How do we decide WBB makes money or loses money? I can tell you that if the attendance is in the 10,000 range, you have a successful program, but with the price of tickets low, you might not be profitable.

:cool:
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So in absence of hard data, the Purdue/Mitch/MBob strategy will probably be ROI. If we have $200,000 available to spend, where will we get the most bang for the buck? We’re not OSU or Michigan who can afford to go first class on every sport, so we have to invest wisely.
 
tenwest said:
I’ve said it before. The day she took the IU job is the day she loses her G&B card for life. I agree with SKY, Purdue used to be a national power. And she still had the talent to maintain it but she tailed off considerably. There is great talent in Indiana that she now doesn’t seem to be able to land here anymore. Sure she made the dance but never did anything worth mentioning in it. It’s time to do her a favor and give her the associates AD job overlooking women’s athletics.
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Purdue actually lost much of its standing during Curry’s last years. In fact, rumor at the time was Curry was lucky to get bailed out when she got LaTech’s offer to return as HC where she had been an assistant before taking over a National Championship team at Purdue. She made it back to FF but that was on Peck’s coat tails then slowly we began sliding....Muffet was already getting the best of the state of Indiana when Versyp arrived and she has maintained that strangle hold. The continued turnover of Coaches at Purdue helped give Muffet and ND the best of Indiana. Girls weren’t sure who their coach would be once they committed. I’m not a big Versyp fan but I’m even less a fan of revisionist history to suite an agenda.
 
New Pal Boiler said:
LOL. Nothing you posted proves the WBB program has ever been profitable.
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Well... I know for a fact Mackey was sold out for WBB Senior Night Steph’s and Ukari’s Senior year as I came up from NC and had to hunt around for tickets....I use to come up a couple of times a season back then. I’m sure if you want to add credibility to your statements WBB has never been profitable you should be the one to provide that data. Unless of course you just pulled that statement out of the air. Rather most Purdue intercollegiate sports are not self sustaining. Are you advocating not encouraging excellence in those?
 
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BoilerBiker said:
for 2017-18, purdue reported:
womens
revenue $697,902 expenses 4,092,120 = (3,394,218)

mens
revenue $9,891,222 expenses 8,410,571 = 1,480,651

ope.ed.gov/athletics
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South Carolina led the country in WBB attendance at over 11K per game- and lost $5.9 million. Once again, attendance does not always equal profit.
 
BoilerGal74 said:
Well... I know for a fact Mackey was sold out for WBB Senior Night Steph’s and Ukari’s Senior year as I came up from NC and had to hunt around for tickets....I use to come up a couple of times a season back then. I’m sure if you want to add credibility to your statements WBB has never been profitable you should be the one to provide that data. Unless of course you just pulled that statement out of the air. Rather most Purdue intercollegiate sports are not self sustaining. Are you advocating not encouraging excellence in those?
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See Boiler Bikers post above. Purdue WBB lost $3.3 million last year. South Carolina led the nation in WBB attendance and lost $5.9 million.

I’m all for encouraging excellence in all Purdue sports - I’m just not in favor of increased financial investment in a perennially unprofitable business.
 
New Pal Boiler said:
See Boiler Bikers post above. Purdue WBB lost $3.3 million last year. South Carolina led the nation in WBB attendance and lost $5.9 million.

I’m all for encouraging excellence in all Purdue sports - I’m just not in favor of increased financial investment in a perennially unprofitable business.
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It's more than obvious that Versyp's is over paid based on her lack of results.
 
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SKYDOG said:
It's more than obvious that Versyp's is over paid based on her lack of results.
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And, it would not require more of an investment in the program to resolve the problem just by replacing her.

She NEVER should have had her contract extended by Burke on is way out.

She, in conjunction with Morgan, have made the program an essential afterthought in the conference and irrelevant nationally, despite having inherited a program that was anything but either of those.

Like say, the mere fact that the program has fallen not just behind ND, but, behind IU during her time is simply inexcusable...it is not as if IU is pouring money into its WBB program.
 
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Purdue85 said:
why?

and, for how long?

and, how much of an "investment?"

and, for what would the "investment" cover?

Again, this is the difficult part of internet forums... trying to make sense of the opinions, and separating facts from feelings.
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FEELINGS drive the opinions of most. :( Look at how many say I feel this or that rather than think this or that. The general population cant discern the difference between thought and feelings
 
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New Pal Boiler said:
South Carolina led the country in WBB attendance at over 11K per game- and lost $5.9 million. Once again, attendance does not always equal profit.
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Collegiate Sports was never meant to be a “for profit” business... Like college life anywhere, young adults learn as much outside the classroom as they do inside those walls. Athletics is certainly no exception to that rule. Our AD has been self sustaining for years...and has certainly expanded with BTN $$$...But I’m missing the point of this discussion, what are you advocating regarding PWBB?
 
BoilerGal74 said:
Collegiate Sports was never meant to be a “for profit” business... Like college life anywhere, young adults learn as much outside the classroom as they do inside those walls. Athletics is certainly no exception to that rule. Our AD has been self sustaining for years...and has certainly expanded with BTN $$$...But I’m missing the point of this discussion, what are you advocating regarding PWBB?
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In a nutshell, I was defending Morgue for his penny-pinching ways, when it comes to non-profit sports like WBB.
I support the strategy of investing in the 2 profitable sports and minimizing costs elsewhere.
 
I think Purdue us being loyal to Sharon. Once she is ready to leave Purdue will get Steph White from Vandy and Carolyn will become Vandy’s head WBB coach. Perfect for both schools. I would guess Sharon will be ready when Steph is ready, very soon. After or during next season.
 
No Steph White to become Purdue’s WBB, Carolyn becomes Vandy’s WBB. I believe she graduated from Vandy
 
I see a lot of people criticizing Versyp and saying how great the previous coaches were. Then I see people criticizing the previous coaches as well. Then I read Purdue was a power before Versyp. It seems like they were just as good under Versyp. Last time I looked Purdue's women's team won 1 national championship. I'm not even sure if they were favored to win or if that was an aberration.

For all of you who hate Versyp, I'd love to see you say and prove who was actually a better coach.

I will agree attendance today is not as great as it once was. I also heard attendance for the men's team isn't as great as it once was too. is a coach to blame for attendance drops or a decrease in revenue?

I read a lot about Dunn. She must have been really bad. But nobody talks about her success on the court.

How great was Peck? She won a championship and promptly left. I am left to wonder if she stayed how great she would have been. Or would you criticize her as well if she didn't produce any more championships.

It looks like Versyp coached 2 elite 8 teams. How many other Purdue coaches men or women can make that claim?
 
Wolegib said:
I see a lot of people criticizing Versyp and saying how great the previous coaches were. Then I see people criticizing the previous coaches as well. Then I read Purdue was a power before Versyp. It seems like they were just as good under Versyp. Last time I looked Purdue's women's team won 1 national championship. I'm not even sure if they were favored to win or if that was an aberration.

For all of you who hate Versyp, I'd love to see you say and prove who was actually a better coach.

I will agree attendance today is not as great as it once was. I also heard attendance for the men's team isn't as great as it once was too. is a coach to blame for attendance drops or a decrease in revenue?

I read a lot about Dunn. She must have been really bad. But nobody talks about her success on the court.

How great was Peck? She won a championship and promptly left. I am left to wonder if she stayed how great she would have been. Or would you criticize her as well if she didn't produce any more championships.

It looks like Versyp coached 2 elite 8 teams. How many other Purdue coaches men or women can make that claim?
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dude.... REALLY?

Go back and read the posts.

I ... SPECIFICALLY stated how good she was on the court.

Goodness, bigs.

.....????!

Brother....!
 
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Purdue85 said:
dude.... REALLY?

Go back and read the posts.

I ... SPECIFICALLY stated how good she was on the court.

Goodness, bigs.

.....????!

Brother....!
Click to expand...


Did I accuse you of saying anything good or bad ???????? Did I even quote you or reply to your post?

Go back and follow your advice and read the post.
 
Purdue85 said:
From you, bigs:

"I read a lot about Dunn. She must have been really bad. But nobody talks about her success on the court."

Bigs.
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I hate to say this. But all you said about Dunn was she was an incredible coach and then you mentioned her off court issues. You listed no accomplishments or records or anything about Dunn other than saying she was an incredible coach. You had more positive things to say and list about Versyp than Dunn.

It could be said Dick Vitale and Lee Corso were incredible coaches as well. Incredible doesn't always mean successful.

So it's like I said, NOBODY talks about her success on the court. Saying a coach is incredible does not really fit the definition of describing a coach's on court success.
 
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Wolegib said:
I hate to say this. But all you said about Dunn was she was an incredible coach and then you mentioned her off court issues. You listed no accomplishments or records or anything about Dunn other than saying she was an incredible coach. You had more positive things to say and list about Versyp than Dunn.

So it's like I said, NOBODY talks about her success on the court. Saying a coach is incredible does not really fit the definition of describing a coach's on court success.
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oh, my.

bigs.

You just....

No.

ImpassionedBasicAssassinbug-size_restricted.gif
 
Purdue85 said:
oh, my.

bigs.

You just....

No.

ImpassionedBasicAssassinbug-size_restricted.gif
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That's right. I just spent 15 minutes and reread all of your posts on this subject! And I found nowhere that you included any facts about Dunn. The term incredible is an adjective not a fact.

So YES, I just disagreed with you and your recollection of what you said
 
If you want to argue about it, go ahead! Show me your post where you listed Dunn's on the court accomplishments
 
Wolegib said:
That's right. I just spent 15 minutes and reread all of your posts on this subject! And I found nowhere that you included any facts about Dunn. The term incredible is an adjective not a fact.

So YES, I just disagreed with you and your recollection of what you said
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Woley. The reason nobody is discussing Dunn in detail is because much of what could be said is wisely left unsaid and should be locked away in Boiler history archives as a dark chapter.
 
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Wolegib said:
That's right. I just spent 15 minutes and reread all of your posts on this subject! And I found nowhere that you included any facts about Dunn. The term incredible is an adjective not a fact.

So YES, I just disagreed with you and your recollection of what you said
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Bigs, I don't post my thoughts with your minimum standards. I couldn't give a d@mn about what you want to see me post.

When you state, "I read a lot about Dunn. She must have been really bad. But nobody talks about her success on the court", when I addressed her success on the court, then ... I addressed her success on the court.

I couldn't give a fat rat's arse about your hurdles, your requirements, what facts you deem required.

I

addressed

her

success

on

the

court.

Good grief, brother. I want to continue to follow your posts, and see what you have to say. Some days it's REALLY difficult to stay committed to that.
 
Purdue85 said:
Bigs, I don't post my thoughts with your minimum standards. I couldn't give a d@mn about what you want to see me post.

When you state, "I read a lot about Dunn. She must have been really bad. But nobody talks about her success on the court", when I addressed her success on the court, then ... I addressed her success on the court.

I couldn't give a fat rat's arse about your hurdles, your requirements, what facts you deem required.

I

addressed

her

success

on

the

court.

Good grief, brother. I want to continue to follow your posts, and see what you have to say. Some days it's REALLY difficult to stay committed to that.
Click to expand...

You love to argue. If I take a week off you and doo daw day will argue with somebody else.

After reading this entire thread thread twice, I said many people like to criticize Dunn and Versyp but nobody wants to talk about Dunn's accomplishments on the court or for that matter any coach's actual accomplishments on the court. Everyone is quick to criticize Versyp but nobody will provide any proof of anybody any better.

Purdue 85 , I applaud you for taking the time to reflect Versyp's record and accomplishments. But when you chirped in and disagreed with me when I said nobod talked about Dunn's accomplishments on the court, I kind of expected that you had posted something similar about Dunn. I looked for it, but found nothing.

I also thought Dunn was a great coach. But I don't know if her accomplishments were better than Versyp.

Sometimes I get annoyed when people criticize a current coach and claim they were not as great as the previous coach. And all they use to talk about the previous coach is adjectives. Versyp guided the Boilers to two elite 8 appearances. To me that's pretty impressive. So I politely ask, what former Purdue coach did that. And all I get are crickets chirping.

All I asked is a simple question or to provide some factual data about our previous coaches instead of adjectives. I thought since you provided them for Versyp, it wouldn't be that hard to provide them for the other previous coaches. I noticed both Dunn and Peck both enjoyed some success in the WNBA.
 
Lynn Dunn was a great recruiter and a good coach. She recruited the team that won the NC. She also recruited most of the players on the other team that Purdue beat in the NC game. How many coaches have recruited two NC capable teams simultaneously? All that said, she did some inappropriate things that got her pushed out of her position.

Curry recruited better than Versyp, but not as good as Dunn either. The worse part about Curry was her game planning. Her game coaching was often referred to as "four statues and a shooter". She had some good teams but squandered the talent. It was under Curry that our program began to decline in my opinion.

Versyp has never recruited at Dunn's level and has never been the on-court coach that Dunn was. It is not even close. She is a better coach than Curry, but has not been able to pull in the talent. Under her, we have not kept pace with the rest of the BIG, which has improved greatly during the past 10 years.
 
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