OT - Nell Fortner
- Thread starter Longboat Boiler
- Start date
I’ve said it before. The day she took the IU job is the day she loses her G&B card for life. I agree with SKY, Purdue used to be a national power. And she still had the talent to maintain it but she tailed off considerably. There is great talent in Indiana that she now doesn’t seem to be able to land here anymore. Sure she made the dance but never did anything worth mentioning in it. It’s time to do her a favor and give her the associates AD job overlooking women’s athletics.
Don't have an opinion on Versyp. Katie Geralds is doing a great job at Marian with two national titles.
No, I really don't know that.
It wasn't a trick question, I was sincere. I assumed you had taken this further.
But, your reaction illustrates my point: People go off on this forum, and they really haven't done their homework, they really don't know for sure, they just have a .... "feeling."
Again, this isn't personal, you brought up this conversation, but THIS is why I get accused of ... defending people ... like Burke.
Okay... since I'm ruffling feathers, this is where I disagree with the job an AD is doing.
If that is true... IF .... !!! .... that is true, that's inexcusable. An executive (like an AD) should be able to spin more than one plate at a time.
Frankly, I don't think it's the case that we're just addressing the FB team.
I think Sharon is (or should be) on the hot seat. (None of us know what conversations are occurring.)
I think Painter's program can be addressed in whatever manner is necessary. (None of us know what conversations are occurring.)
It doesn't take the FB team reaching national prominence to do address another program.
Oh sure he pays attention to all sports, but in terms of big money initiatives, he’s not going out and spending a million bucks on a WBB coach in the near future. If he feels he can upgrade from Versyp at a similar salary level, then great. His goal should be to minimize costs for the non profit sports.
Fully absurd statement. Carolyn Peck had accepted the Orlando WNBA position before Purdue’s championship season, then sought and gained permission to remain as Purdue’s coach for that year … only her second year ever as a head coach.
You can’t tell much. Non-profit? Yeah, sure. From 1997 through 2014, Purdue women’s basketball attendance averaged between 7,054 and 10,105 per game per year, finishing among the nation’s top nine in paid attendance for each of those 18 seasons. Minimize that.
I never suggested he should.
I was addressing a prior post, which seemed to indicate Bobinski would address the MBB then WBB once the FB program had been properly addressed.
That makes no sense to me, as an executive (like Bobinski) is paid to spin more plates than one.
Underfunded by how much, and in what ways?
In the spirit of not offending, I'm seeking to understand, not put you on the spot.
I meant more from a financial standpoint, that WBB will be waiting a while for any further investment.
For example, schools like MSU, IU, UM, and OSU all spend a decent amount more on assistant coaches, support staff, recruiting budgets, etc. lbodel has posted the numbers several times, I’ll see if I can find them.
It actually surprised me, and gave me even more appreciation for the job CMP has done for the last 14 years.
why?
and, for how long?
and, how much of an "investment?"
and, for what would the "investment" cover?
Again, this is the difficult part of internet forums... trying to make sense of the opinions, and separating facts from feelings.
Okay... admittedly, I'm lazy and not "googling" on the subject. Is there someplace you can link to this?
I'm genuinely interested.
I agree with you on this to a degree. I believe he handled the problems pretty well. Those include the problems with Dunn/Joseph and Curry. It was common knowledge that Peck was not interested in staying at Purdue so I will let that one go. But I am pretty emotional about the missed opportunity he had with WBB. Purdue was building well during Dunn's time and did pretty well with the transition to get past that problem. Even the hiring of Curry looked good, but she and her husband screwed up pretty badly, putting Vesyp in a long term problem that she hasn't overcome. OK. He never built a SI department with the infrastructure to built the Purdue brand at a national level. I can not even get the radio broadcast of the WBB events in Indy. That's pathetic. We never got the broadcast of the WBB coaches show in Indy. We don't have a good presence in Indy because we don't try, not because the IU stigma is wonderful and strong. Big time sports means having those things and we don't. I could go on a lot longer here but I have made my point.
He made 4 WBB hires in a pretty short time frame: Fortner, Peck, Curry and Versyp. I think he did OK, given that we weren’t going to spend a bunch.
I hope we would all agree, Bobinski has done a pretty good job. Of course, he has resources the Purdue Athletic Department hasn't seen before.
With almost 3 years on the job, does he show any signs of addressing any of the things you mentioned?
As one of the premier schools in Indiana, he could make the right moves and turn around WBB within a very short time. The season is over. We're
Building an SI department would happen pretty quickly.
Getting broadcasters signed on... ditto.
3 years is a long time.
I don’t think WBB is any more important than any of the other non profit sports. Is he working to get Purdue baseball on the radio?
No Purdue grad I know personally is all that concerned about the state of the WBB program. Would they like it to be better? Sure, why not.
But what they really want is more football and men’s basketball success.
I think MBob knows where his bread is buttered, and doesn’t seem to care about winning the directors cup or whatever it’s called these days.
Edit: this is obviously just my opinion. I respect the opinions of those who disagree, especially those who have daughters who play basketball and follow the women’s team. I have daughters who play sports also, so I am sensitive to that.
Hang on...under him, and, due to him, the program went from a national power to virtually a complete afterthought within the conference? More egregious...from a national power to surpassed by IU...that is just inexcusable.
He did not just make ANOTHER poor hire, but, extended her contract on his way out (which was uncalled for, unnecessary, and, should not even have been allowed).
I don't think we're in disagreement at all.
My points were in direct response to the Inspector's comments. I'm not arguing for these things, merely stating that, if these things were important, Bobinski would have done them.
An executive like Bobinski can certainly walk and chew gum at the same time, and he can also work on multiple projects at the same time.
If it isn't a priority to Bobinski, 3 years into the job, it's dishonest to use it as a cudgel on Burke.
I do agree with you that he shouldn’t have been allowed to extend Versyp in the way out the door.
Didn’t he oversee the rise of the program as well as the fall? I am genuinely asking, as I haven’t followed it that closely. (Which kind of supports my overall point)
Agreed. To win an NCAA championship 3 years and 2 coaches after the Dunn debacle is almost miraculous, and even folks like me have to give a lot of credit to Morgue for that.
He was there when the rise was under way (he inherited Dunn), but, he hired Versyp...then extended her more than once, including on his way out. So, he did not oversee the rise necessarily...he was there during its best times, but, he definitely oversaw (and directly contributed to) the fall (much like football).
I didn't make the case this only occurred the past 2 1/2 years.
I hope you won't argue the following:
- The Purdue leadership is much more behind the success of athletics than in my memory. (President and BOT, specifically.)
- The financial resources available are also beyond anything in history, and continues to improve substantially.
Sorry NPB, but you missed the point. Agree with your last statement. I said a lot more in my previous post. I will add this. Purdue WBB was topped out at a little over 10K attendance during those times. Decent revenue to support that sport. Filling Mackey for WBB should be a priority because it is easy revenue that will more than cover the needs of that particular program and might support a few more. Besides good health for Sharon, she needs a good, solid recruiting base to keep up. Winning, challenging for conference and good performance in post season (same issues the men face) are important to filling Mackey and reducing the financial burden on the department.
I was under the impression that WBB never was that profitable even in the “Golden age”.
I was there for a good chunk of them back in the 90s and even then tickets were super cheap, and students got in free with their gold card. Attendance doesn’t necessarily equal profit, though I very well could be mistaken in this case.
Sorry for carrying on an OT that really has its place on the WBB board. But you went and I assume had a good time. And you bring up some things that were the choice of the AD and that was to reduce the value of attending. He shouldn't have done that. But, the only point that seems at odds between us is the old AD. You are painting a picture that says he was very valuable to Purdue and I am saying he was not. We can leave it at that and enjoy the focus and success of our new AD as he moves forward.
I think Bobinski has gotten significantly more support from the university administration as well as financial resources than Burke did throughout his career, if that's what you're looking for.
I think Bobinski is doing a fine job, and I wish the President and BOT had provided much more support (over the past 25 years) than they did. We would be having completely different conversations. That much isn't in doubt.
Oh I’m not a fan of Morgue, at all. I just think he made the best of a bad situation with the Dunn-Joseph deal, with the Fortner and Peck hires. I mean, I was a student there in 1996 when all that happened, and if you had told me they would win a national title 3 years later I would have said you were crazy.
And overall I agree with the strategy of not spending more than you have to on the non-profit sports, at the expense of the 2 money makers, which MBob seems to subscribe to as well, at least so far. But reasonable folks can certainly disagree on that.
throughout an entire career - definitely.
the tv/btn money was the biggest factor (especially for an ath. dept. like purdue), which was to his benefit about the last half of his career.
difficult comparison for the 2
since college sports in general changed so much $ wise since burke began.
my pessimist/realist view is that the tv money will begin to peak. and the next B1G commish will need to be innovative again with subscriptions/viewing. along with other collegiate factors, bobinski (or the next guy) may have to deal with potentially declining $.
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We can lead a pal to facts, but we can’t make him think.
First, no sports “profit,” not without the conference’s television revenue, and all revenue and expenses fit under the department’s umbrella.
Second, women’s basketball is Purdue’s third-biggest revenue-producing program, out-drawing and out-earning not only most peers but most of the nation for decades. That substantial fanbase has expectations, based on two decades of nationally elite status, so any attempts to “minimize” the program serve only as a self-inflicted kick in the pants, right between the pockets.
Third, for those reasons, obvious to others, women’s basketball and volleyball warrant substantially more resources than baseball, softball, wrestling, swimming, track, cross country, golf, tennis or soccer.
Finally, Title IX makes your thoughts absolutely irrelevant.
