IU

[arcb102000]

Cheese, IU fans confuse me. They claim that UK and Calipari is dirty, but nothing has been proven that is the case. (Btw, I think that UK is dirty but admittedly there is only circumstantial and not definitive evidence so far.) IU fans always act like they are above cheating and Sampson was as an aberration. "We are better than that.." is the claim. But in the case of Romeo and to a lesser degree Gordon all we hear is there is no definitive proof of wrongdoing so everything is OK. Well, that sounds pretty inconsistent to me. Also, we still hear that "...it was only phone calls." People went to jail for bootlegging during Prohibition for an activity that was perfectly legal a few years later yet that did negate their sentences. But IU fans claim that the crime did not matter.

You'll have to pardon me but I get confused.

 

[cheeseman18]

Cheese, IU fans confuse me. They claim that UK and Calipari is dirty, but nothing has been proven that is the case. (Btw, I think that UK is dirty but admittedly there is only circumstantial and not definitive evidence so far.) IU fans always act like they are above cheating and Sampson was as an aberration. "We are better than that.." is the claim. But in the case of Romeo and to a lesser degree Gordon all we here is not there is no definitive proof of wrongdoing so everything is OK. Well, that sounds pretty inconsistent to me. Also, we still hear that "...it was only phone calls." People went to jail for bootlegging during Prohibition for an activity that was perfectly legal a few years later yet that did negate their sentences. But IU fans claim that the crime did not matter.

You'll have to pardon me but I get confused.

I’ve discussed the Romeo situation ad nauseam in other threads, I have no desire to start that argument again. Bottom line is that his AAU team was run and paid just like every other high level AAU team, the only difference is that in this case the coach had a son playing. I’m sure that happens all over the country where fathers of players are paid to coach. Attention was brought to this one because Romeo is a big recruit. Either way, it’s not illegal, or breaking any rules. It’s how the teams operate. That’s all I have to say about it, tired of hearing about it, time to get over it and move on.

And yes, Samscum was a piece of work. Phone calls weren’t even the worst of it. The worst was allowing his players to be out of control off the court and get themselves into trouble. That’s why they all got kicked off the team when Dakich took over. I have nothing good to say about him. I’ll give you one thing though, you’re right that I call Cal dirty even though nothing’s been proven. But c’mon, we all know it. lol

 

[arcb102000]

Then be consistent and stop the defense of RL and family. Calipari can claim what he is doing is legal because he hasn't been found to break the rules at UK. if it's dirty it's dirty regardless of who does it. You can't have it both ways.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

Then be consistent and stop the defense of RL and family. Calipari can claim what he is doing is legal because he hasn't been found to break the rules at UK. if it's dirty it's dirty regardless of who does it. You can't have it both ways.

Ok, UK isnt cheating. Happy?

 

[arcb102000]

Glad to know that you are going to be logically consistent. You can now spread the word to your brethren.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

Glad to know that you are going to be logically consistent. You can now spread the word to your brethren.

You can do the same with your "brethren". Every time Purdue loses out on a player like Malik Hall, Francis Okoro, or now Zeke, it always turns to talk about how the player was looking for handouts and the other school cheated to get them.

Either these players are dirty, or they aren't. If they are, why is Painter getting involved with all those shady recruitments?

The truth is these recruits arent dirty, and those schools werent cheating. You just lost the recruitment. Now, go ahead and pass that on.

 

[arcb102000]

I disagree in the case of Arizona. There is audio that has Miller talking about payments to Aydin. The Feds are investigating and people have been indited. That goes way beyond mere speculation.

 

[ahhculdee]

You can do the same with your "brethren". Every time Purdue loses out on a player like Malik Hall, Francis Okoro, or now Zeke, it always turns to talk about how the player was looking for handouts and the other school cheated to get them.

Either these players are dirty, or they aren't. If they are, why is Painter getting involved with all those shady recruitments?

The truth is these recruits arent dirty, and those schools werent cheating. You just lost the recruitment. Now, go ahead and pass that on.

All three players you bring up went to potentially dirty programs.
Izzo- Covered up rape and ever notice he'll offer a player late and get them, paid.
Oregon- Prints that Nike money, only reason their basketball and football have been good recently at all.
Arizona-Sean Miller paid Ayton, as reported by the FBI. Who knows how many others he's paid, likely paid Zeke.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

All three players you bring up went to potentially dirty programs.
Izzo- Covered up rape and ever notice he'll offer a player late and get them, paid.
Oregon- Prints that Nike money, only reason their basketball and football have been good recently at all.
Arizona-Sean Miller paid Ayton, as reported by the FBI. Who knows how many others he's paid, likely paid Zeke.

What's Painter doing recruiting such dirty players?

 

[cropper69]

He is obsessed with what we think of his team here. There is no real other explanation for him spending as much time and effort on here that he does.

I started this thread. It didn’t go in the direction that I intended. Due to injuries IU isn’t quite as good as I thought they would be. At least I assume it’s due to injuries. I wish we had hunter too. Then Romeo could get a break but it is what it is. Hopefully he comes back next year fully healthy!

 

[arcb102000]

What's Painter doing recruiting such dirty players?

Given your logic, you might want to reflect upon your post. Iirc, Archie was a key recruiter for his brother at Arizona and those recorded calls do exist.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

Given your logic, you might want to reflect upon your post. Iirc, Archie was a key recruiter for his brother at Arizona and those recorded calls do exist.

Link? I haven't seen anything referencing Archie Miller and the FBI scandal at Arizona.

I have seen that Creighton was definitely involved... who was the lead recruiter on that 5* Creighton got?

Maybe the reason Lutz can't land anyone at Purdue is because he doesnt have a slush fund to back up his pitch....?

 

[arcb102000]

What I was refering to was your implication that something was wrong with Painter because he was recruiting players that were perhaps dirty. Knowing what we do about Arizona and AM's history there and using YOUR implication and logical consistency we might thus conclude AM was dirty. I am not saying that he is but if we followed your thought process it would certainly suggest that. Hence my comment that you might want to reflect upon your post.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

What I was refering to was your implication that something was wrong with Painter because he was recruiting players that were perhaps dirty. Knowing what we do about Arizona and AM's history there and using YOUR implication and logical consistency we might thus conclude AM was dirty. I am not saying that he is but if we followed your thought process it would certainly suggest that. Hence my comment that you might want to reflect upon your post.

I don't think either Lutz or Archie are dirty. I was using your logic that "since archie coached under his brother (7 years ago) he's dirty". It's ignorant.

Lutz and Archie are both part of clean programs.

 

[arcb102000]

It is hardly ignorant to point out that AM was closely associated with a program paying players as evidencedby audio and Fed inditments. That is fact. Perhaps he didnotknow though his brother was in charge.

Don't blame me. I only play piano in the brothel's parlor. I don't know what is going on upstairs.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

It is hardly ignorant to point out that AM was closely associated with a program paying players as evidencedby audio and Fed inditments. That is fact. Perhaps he didnotknow though his brother was in charge.

Don't blame me. I only play piano in the brothel's parlor. I don't know what is going on upstairs.

So it's also not ignorant to point out that Lutz was closely associated with a program named by the FBI as having offered money for multiple kids? That is fact as well.

 

[lkfletcher14]

Phinesee is not as good a NE or Hunter.

You are kidding, right?

 

[lkfletcher14]

IU needed a pg. Purdue didn’t. It’s that simple. Eifert wouldn’t be starting at IU.... so what’s your point. And yes, Thompson is in HS. That’s why I said he is in the fold. We don’t need RP and won’t.

Yes we do. Some of you give too much credit to the offensive production of Eifert and Eastern. They are just average Big Ten players

 

[Treed1967]

Yes we do. Some of you give too much credit to the offensive production of Eifert and Eastern. They are just average Big Ten players

☺️✅✅⚽️⚽️❤️❤️

 

[mathboy]

Yes we do. Some of you give too much credit to the offensive production of Eifert and Eastern. They are just average Big Ten players

An average BIG starter is a pretty good basketball player. This might be an unintentional compliment. That's kind'a funny.

 

[arcb102000]

So it's also not ignorant to point out that Lutz was closely associated with a program named by the FBI as having offered money for multiple kids? That is fact as well.

Where are the "multiple kids" at Creighton? I saw an allegation by Bowen Sr. I also saw that an agent bought a dinner for the family a la Bridges, which the NCAA has judged to be trivial based upon Bridges.

Of course, the Bowen pere also pointed out an offer from Arizona so that involves multiple large payments/offers. Kind of different don't you think?

 

[NC_Trojan10]

Where are the "multiple kids" at Creighton? I saw an allegation by Bowen Sr. I also saw that an agent bought a dinner for the family a la Bridges, which the NCAA has judged to be trivial based upon Bridges.

Of course, the Bowen pere also pointed out an offer from Arizona so that involves multiple large payments/offers. Kind of different don't you think?

Nope, the exact same. Both came from programs that were accused in the FBI case.

If you want to inexplicably try to claim Archie is dirty based on a program he coached at 7 years ago, I will do the same Lutz.

 

[arcb102000]

Let's review fairly recent history. I realizze that you are attempting to equate an apple and an orange but we can play.

IU hires:

1. Sampson: clearly dirty prior to and while at IU. Fired when it came out.

2. Crean: violated recruiting period in speaking to Harris. Alleged negative recruiter. Voted by peers as most likely to cheat in recruiting.

3. Archie: recruiter for the AZ program FBI investigation and audio confirming illegal offers. Brother of the head coach. (Yet he knew mothing.)

Don't you see a pattern here?

Btw, the FBI has chosen to not investigate Creighton after hearing from Bowen Sr. Maybe because they saw nothing there after notification? Wny go after AZ but not C unless evidence points one way and not the other. That might be a fairly reasoable explanation.

Seriously, we can pull up the old quotes posted over here in the Sampson era and they sound just like yours. Poor attempts to equate things.

RMK ran a very good and a clean program. He was a jerk but an honest jerk. In its desire to recreate the RMK era, IU has made sacrifices. We get it but you seem not to.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

Let's review fairly recent history. I realizze that you are attempting to equate an apple and an orange but we can play.

IU hires:

1. Sampson: clearly dirty prior to and while at IU. Fired when it came out.

2. Crean: violated recruiting period in speaking to Harris. Alleged negative recruiter.

3. Archie: recruiter for the AZ program FBI investigation and audio confirming illegal offers. Brother of the head coach. (Yet he knew mothing.)

Don't you see a pattern here?

Btw, the FBI has chosen to not investigate Creighton after hearing from Bowen Sr. Maybe because they saw nothing there after notification? Wny go after AZ but not C unless evidence points one way and not the other. That might be a fairly reasoable explanation.

Seriously, we can pull up the old quotes posted over here in the Sampson era and they sound just like yours. Poor attempts to equate things.

RMK ran a very good and a clean program. He was a jerk but an honest jerk. In its desire to recreate the RMK era, IU has made sacrifices. We get it but you seem not to.

1. Yes, Sampson was dirty and got axed when it came out.

2. Lol you are pointing to a very minor recruiting violation with Crean that was self reported and resulted in no punishment. Negative recruiting is part of the game, and is in no way illegal. If you arent pointing out other schools weaknesses while also promoting your own schools strengths, then you arent trying.

3. Provide a link that says the FBI has Archie on audio recordings making illegal offers. I dont think you are grasping that Archie hasnt been employed by Arizona since 2011.

4. Pretty suspicious that Lutz was able to land multiple top 75 players at CREIGHTON (a school named in the FBI trial as having offered 200k to Brian Bowen's father), but he can't land even a 3 star at Purdue. I think we would both agree that it should be easier to land recruits at Purdue than it is at Creighton.

Again, I dont think either of them are dirty, but I can link Lutz to a dirty program just as easily as you can Archie. It matters very little since neither of them are going to get in trouble with their current schools (although I imagine if Lutz keeps flopping on the recruiting trail he wont be at Purdue much longer).

 

[arcb102000]

So obviously your position is that:

1. AZ cheats as evidenced by FBI, audio,etc but only did so after Archie left although his brother has been in charge of the operation during the entire time. He waited until his brother left to begin. (That is the logical summation of your comments.)

2. Even though the FBI looked at the matter and passed on it, Creighton did something improper. You obviously know something the FBI does not. You should contact them asap.I read that the alleged offer was $50K, not 200K. But again, the FBI did nothing.

Also, Negative Recruiting is not what you describe. It has a very different meaning. Negative Recruiting is running down another program.

Also, Sampson was dirty BEFORE IU hired him. It could not have been a great surprise. Maybe the surprise was that he was careles enough to get caught.

Trying to equate Creighton with AZ is simply not credible. FYI, Creighton is a Jesuit instsitution. As a group, they do not have a history of institutional cheating. Again, you may know something tnat I fo not.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

So obviously your position is that:

1. AZ cheats as evidenced by FBI, audio,etc but only did so after Archie left although his brother has been in charge of the operation during the entire time. He waited until his brother left to begin. (That is the logical summation of your comments.)

2. Even though the FBI looked at the matter and passed on it, Creighton did something improper. You obviously know something the FBI does not. You should contact them asap.I read that the alleged offer was $50K, not 200K. But again, the FBI did nothing.

Also, Negative Recruiting is not what you describe. It has a very different meaning. Negative Recruiting is running down another program.

Also, Sampson was dirty BEFORE IU hired him. It could not have been a great surprise. Maybe the surprise was that he was careles enough to get caught.

Trying to equate Creighton with AZ is simply not credible. FYI, Creighton is a Jesuit instsitution. As a group, they do not have a history of institutional cheating. Again, you may know something tnat I fo not.

1. "If you know something about Archie Miller that the FBI doesnt you should contact them." See how that works?

2. It was 100k

https://www.omaha.com/creighton/men...cle_5efd33c5-459d-5fa7-972f-244077019ddb.html

3. Negative recruiting is not an illegal or even bad thing.

As I've stated now 400 times, I DONT THINK EITHER ARE DIRTY. When you have proof that Archie did something illegal, get back to me. Until then I will very much enjoy Archie Miller's time at IU. Btw, this will be a great week for IU recruiting.

 

[arcb102000]

So let's be clear:

1. Do you think Miller at AZ is dirty? Please acknowledge available evidence.

2. If so, do you believe that he became dirty only after his brother left?

3. Nobody has said it is illegal. This is a straw man argument. It is dirty. Dirty can be but need not be illegal.

4. How do you explain the pattern at IU coaching that I described?

 

[NC_Trojan10]

So let's be clear:

1. Do you think Miller at AZ is dirty? Please acknowledge available evidence.

2. If so, do you believe that he became dirty only after his brother left?

3. Nobody has said it is illegal. This is a straw man argument. It is dirty. Dirty can be but need not be illegal.

4. How do you explain the pattern at IU coaching that I described?

1. Yes I believe Sean Miller is dirty. Just like I think Greg McDermott is dirty.

2. I do believe he became dirty after his brother left. That was 7 years ago. While Archie was there Arizona had 2 top 50 players and none in the top 15.

3. No, negative recruiting isnt dirty. Everyone does it, including Matt Painter.

4. There is no pattern. There is a single instance of cheating (Sampson placing too many phone calls). Unless you want to talk about Crean's minor violation that resulted in absolutely no consequences.

Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones *cough cough Luther Clay*.

Either way IU's program is in very fine hands and heading in the right direction. This time next week our 2019 recruiting class will have at least 1 more member than it does now.

 

[tjreese]

An average BIG starter is a pretty good basketball player. This might be an unintentional compliment. That's kind'a funny.

Actually a sub in the Big is a damn good player!

 

[mathboy]

1. Yes I believe Sean Miller is dirty. Just like I think Greg McDermott is dirty.

2. I do believe he became dirty after his brother left. That was 7 years ago. While Archie was there Arizona had 2 top 50 players and none in the top 15.

3. No, negative recruiting isnt dirty. Everyone does it, including Matt Painter.

4. There is no pattern. There is a single instance of cheating (Sampson placing too many phone calls). Unless you want to talk about Crean's minor violation that resulted in absolutely no consequences.

Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones *cough cough Luther Clay*.

Either way IU's program is in very fine hands and heading in the right direction. This time next week our 2019 recruiting class will have at least 1 more member than it does not.

I agree with everything you say, but for the moment, I contest point 3. Other than Crean, no one has every said Painter uses negative recruiting, and I don't think Crean knew his butt from a hot rockk. Painter says he doesn't do it. I think you might be offering a guess here and not a fact.

 

[arcb102000]

1. Yes I believe Sean Miller is dirty. Just like I think Greg McDermott is dirty.

2. I do believe he became dirty after his brother left. That was 7 years ago. While Archie was there Arizona had 2 top 50 players and none in the top 15.

3. No, negative recruiting isnt dirty. Everyone does it, including Matt Painter.

4. There is no pattern. There is a single instance of cheating (Sampson placing too many phone calls). Unless you want to talk about Crean's minor violation that resulted in absolutely no consequences.

Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones *cough cough Luther Clay*.

Either way IU's program is in very fine hands and heading in the right direction. This time next week our 2019 recruiting class will have at least 1 more member than it does not.

if McD is dirty, please explain why the FBI did nothing after investigating? It would seem that if they had the goods things would be known. Also, the FBI has much greater investigative powers than the NCAA.

AZ had a great history prior to Miller's hiring under Olson. Miller did not need to resurrect a bad case. And your statement that you believe that he started to cheat is simply your view that is unsupported in any way. AZ had good recruits when Archie was there. Your view is a claim and only that.

As for Clay: before my time. However, what I understand is that the NCAA and B1G view the matter differently. The NCAA vacated wins and the B1G did not. Thus the conflict in Keady?knoeght head to head record. My understanding is that Clay received a loan from a local bank that the NCAA viewed as a payoff and with no expectation of repayment. However, the bank was hassling Clay's family for repayment according to the family. So which is it? A gift need not be repaid.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

I agree with everything you say, but for the moment, I contest point 3. Other than Crean, no one has every said Painter uses negative recruiting, and I don't think Crean knew his butt from a hot rockk. Painter says he doesn't do it. I think you might be offering a guess here and not a fact.

I am offering a guess. No one knows for sure if a coach negatively recruits or not (for the most part).

I do think a coach would be dumb not to point out the deficiencies in their competition, however.

 

[NC_Trojan10]

if McD is dirty, please explain why the FBI did nothing after investigating? It would seem that if they had the goods things would be known. Also, the FBI has much greater investigative powers than the NCAA.

AZ had a great history prior to Miller's hiring under Olson. Miller did not need to resurrect a bad case. And your statement that you believe that he started to cheat is simply your view that is unsupported in any way. AZ had good recruits when Archie was there. Your view is a claim and only that.

The FBI didnt do anything, because they aren't going to investigate based on one guys testimony. That doesnt mean they didnt offer. Bowen had immunity, so he had absolutely no reason to lie. He also named Oregon, and I'm sure you have no problem believing Oregon offered money. Why didnt the FBI immediately start investigating them?

You say that "it's simply my view" that Sean started to cheat after Archie left. Yet, it's simply your view that he was cheating while Archie was there. There is absolutely nothing linking Arizona to cheating while Archie was there. If you have seen differently please provide a link. As far as we know, Arizona started cheating the last few years (as there is no proof of it happening before that).

If you have no proof that Archie has cheated in the past, then your claims that he is dirty are unfounded. Come back when you get actual evidence.

 

[*4purdue*]

You are kidding, right?

Um... NE is one of if not the best defender in the B1G and Hunter has a 5:1 assist/turnover.... so no, I’m not kidding.