Just picking the ones that affect Walters. Brohm average for his last 3 years just under 58. Btw, YOU complain about "cherry picking"? LOL
I support Coach Ryan Walters
- Thread starter Purdue Mike
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lots of attrition from that 19 class, last year I posted on here that 13 of the 26 were no longer on the team.
Just my $.02, but..
I don't know if the quality of talent Walters inherited is the most important issue. Last year's recruiting class fell apart after Brohm left, but that's probably to be expected.
IMO: Walters's ability (or inability) to grow into the job will be the most important thing. Haze wasn't an effective recruiter, but he also never improved as a coach. His teams were chronically unprepared and never showed significant improvement in any phase of the game. He papered everything over with coaches' speak that increasingly seemed divorced from reality.
Will Walters do better? It's an open question. I was hoping for a little more than 2-5 at this point, but I didn't expect a miracle out of a first-time head coach in Year One. He has to show he can lead the program toward improvement--and that will probably require hitting the portal and staff upgrades The defense and run game have both shown signs of life. That's encouraging. Time will tell.
I don't know if the quality of talent Walters inherited is the most important issue. Last year's recruiting class fell apart after Brohm left, but that's probably to be expected.
IMO: Walters's ability (or inability) to grow into the job will be the most important thing. Haze wasn't an effective recruiter, but he also never improved as a coach. His teams were chronically unprepared and never showed significant improvement in any phase of the game. He papered everything over with coaches' speak that increasingly seemed divorced from reality.
Will Walters do better? It's an open question. I was hoping for a little more than 2-5 at this point, but I didn't expect a miracle out of a first-time head coach in Year One. He has to show he can lead the program toward improvement--and that will probably require hitting the portal and staff upgrades The defense and run game have both shown signs of life. That's encouraging. Time will tell.
Some positions are more important than others. QB for example. Hazell left Brohm with one that's played several seasons in the NFL and another that was only a tick below.
Brohm did not leave that. He left guys who were ranked out of high school but even now haven't done much.
I'd take Jones and Knox over our current RBs.
I'd take Zico and Wright over our current WRs.
Bentley and Bailey at LB would be top two on this team
I think just citing recruiting rankings doesn't really tell the tale. Particularly when a lot of our players are 3 stars to begin with and only a handful any season are usually 4 stars and adding just a handful of 4s.can vastly change your ranking.
I will say the current oline is about as bad as it's been in a long time, while the dline seems relatively decent by that same comparison (although not great).
This may be one of your better posts. Kudos.
Brohm walked into a 1-8 roster. Went 1-7 the TWO previous seasons. Just a bad roster top to bottom.
There are kids from 2019-2020 classes on this roster.
Average Brohm class 45. Hazell 70.
1-8.
4 are still on the roster from the 2019 class, Brohm's highest rated class according to Boiler Upload. Average just under 58 for Brohm's last 3 classes. That doesn't count the defections from the current class. Sounds more like a mail in job rather than a recruiting "god". LOL
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4 left from Brohm's best class out of 26 on the current roster. No starting quarterback. Apples and oranges.
Lol should there be a separate thread for arguments over our personal opinions?
It wasn't a bad roster from top to bottom. I specifically named players on that roster that would start on this team today.
Coaching matters at the college level. Same way we saw Tiller take a team that had a losing record and won right away, Brohm did the same thing. Tiller inherited a great offensive line for example.
If we swapped in those two LBs, those two WRs, two RBs, and a QB, either one, this team has at least two more wins if not sitting at 6-1.
Doesn't make Walters a good coach, the jury is very much out on that one, but the idea that he was left with a much better roster because of two numbers you keep citing ignores the fact that recruiting numbers don't objectively tell you how good two rosters are and that a safety isn't as important as WR which isn't as important as a QB.
All good points. There were some darn good players on Brohm's first team. Including a future NFL quarterback.
It was a bad 85 man roster. That’s why they went 1-8. All B1G teams have a few good players, even IU.
You and i could be coaching Purdue and we’d have a few good players show up on campus.
Again: to blame the state of the roster/program for Walters’ struggles is just making excuses. I hope he turns it around. He looks to be a better recruiter than Brohm or Hazell, but that won’t last if he doesn’t start winning soon.
Every player I listed was on that last Hazell team. Every player I listed was a key player on Brohms first teams. Every player I listed would start and excel on this team. Either QB would be significantly better than Card. The two WRs would be our top 2 receivers. The two RBs our top two RBs. The two LBs our top 2 linebackers.
I didn't make a single excuse for anyone. I literally said the jury is out on whether Walters is a good coach or not. But the reality is that at key positions, QB, RB, WR, LB, this current team is fairly bereft of talent.
Given the sad state of the oline and at best mediocre dline and it's a wonder we've won two games.
To his credit, Brohm brought in some online transfers and that combined with having a LOT of talent at skill positions already here got him going well.
There's not a single skill position player right now that would have started on that first Brohm team. Not a single one. Maybe at tight end.
Keep drinkin the Kool Aid buddy. This isn't 4 years and you get a degree. It's college football. Win now or go home.
Supporting Walters is like peeing in the ocean an expecting the water level to rise. It will not happen. This hire will turn out to be like so many others we've seen at Purdue. At some point
one would think that based on the law of averages, at some point we can get a good coach! A 5 day search for a new coach is a joke, and that's what we got stuck with!
one would think that based on the law of averages, at some point we can get a good coach! A 5 day search for a new coach is a joke, and that's what we got stuck with!
Disagree. The skill players on the 2016 roster weren’t anything special.
The difference is the coaching.
My point was talent left not how I thought it would turn out. Allen was a very highly ranked qb. Higher than any qb on the roster on the roster when Brohm got here.
And as good as Blough turned out, he didn’t win anything prior to Brohm being his coach.
Several are in the NFL or were near NFL level. Every single one of them would be upgrades to the current team. Significant upgrades. And they aren't the only ones, I just didn't want to do the work to figure out which ones weren't first year Brohm transfers.
You're being stubborn and it's making you make some pretty wrong claims.
Yes but that’s not my point. The cupboard being bare is a shit argument is my point. Brohm left much more talent top to bottom than he inherited is all I am saying. Not top of the Big ten talent by any stretch but not bottom of the Big Ten talent either. If we finish with 1-2 Big Ten wins it will be a coaching failure imo. And I am not saying I give up on the Coach. He is recruiting well and there are some positives signs.
Did you ever think the talent was grown and matured by coach Brohm. God your thick
He didn't leave it at QB, or WR, or DB, or OL, or LB. Certainly better at TE. Maybe at DL? Not sure about RB either.
You're. And the debate wasn't about which coach is better at developing. It's what was left to start.
You’re high. Mockobee is the best RB we’ve had here since Sheets. Tracy is solid too. Neither were recruited by Walters.
Walters also ran off a few LBs in the portal IIRC.
Also, Cam Allen and Mershawn Rice were pretty decent contributors last year and AWOL this year.
Ignorant to think Brohm wouldn’t have gone out and landed a QB to run his system.
You wouldn’t be having this argument if you A had a legitimate leg to stand on and B if the team weren’t 2-5 instead of 4-3 like they should be, IMO.
Yeah not really. Knox was better. I have to laugh at the idea that losing games we shouldn't somehow started under Walters. Brohm was literally known for that including this season in just his last game at UL.
The point isn't to compare Brohm as a coach to Walters. I haven't done that's and again, for the folks struggling with the English language, I have said the jury is out on whether Walters is a good coach or not. He may not be.
The point is that there were a lot of holes left. Walters didn't have the team left behind to start with that Brohm did. The QB he had STILL hasn't started a single game anywhere. The QB he got in the portal is nowhere near Blough or Sindelar, at least not yet. No Mockabee and Tracy aren't as good as Knox and Jones. Rice is NOWHERE near Zico or Wright. Bailey, Bentley, Neal, Mackey, Watts, would all be upgrades and start for this team.
If we had Blough, the two RBs, the defensive players I listed and those two WRs, this team would be 4-3 too.
Now, I don't have to be high to believe that because the QB and skill positions are critical to wins and losses and at almost every one what we started with in 2017 was better than what we started with this season.
Of course none of that means Walters is a good coach or even a better coach than Brohm, it does mean this team needs a lot of talent infused before anyone makes them a quality team.
Almost every player held over comes from recruiting classes that averaged 58th. That's not high level recruiting.
You’ve said a lot but have said nothing. I’d love to hear how Knox is better than Mock. I don’t think you could come up with anything meaningful there.
You’re grasping at straws to defend wasted talent and effort here.
You’re going on star rankings alone and not considering coaching and on the field performance. Our coaches haven’t gotten the best out of the talent they do have. 4-3 is no stretch with a loss to a G5 team, a domination by a below average P5 team and a loss to an Iowa team basically playing without a QB.
If they haven’t gotten the best out of what they have…what makes you think talent changes anything? If you think the Hazell holdovers were talented yet one guy went 3-9 with them and one guy went 7-6 with them…doesn’t that suggest the guy who went 7-6 knew what he was doing?
Lots of games coming up with teams with similar talent but if what we’ve seen thus far this year holds we will continue to be out coached and executed.
No excuse for going 3-9 or 4-8 with what we had left from last years team…even though people will exhaust themselves making those excuses.
It’s ok to disagree and I do. I have already said that Allen was here when Brohm left and he was as talented or more than any qb Brohm inherited. Will it turn into anything we will see but I would take him today in a heartbeat over Card sight unseen. Burk and Yaseen are talented and there are like 4ish 4 star wrs on this roster. Probably true on DB but mostly because our top 3 graduated and no matter who was coach we would have had to being in transfers there. OL wasn’t good under either coach but my guess is we have higher rated kids now. Hard to tell what we have at LB because Walters only plays one but Karlaftas was highly rated and Brothers was too. DL was 100% improved under Brohm. And yes the rbs are a different type but I would take Mock and Tracy over what we had then.
The only things I will say is our defense seems to be improving if slowly and we seem to have a good running game unless we only need a yard. Special teams seems improved in the return game but unfortunately we can’t kick a fg.
I am hesitant to be overly critical of our passing game yet because I believe Card refuses to deliver a football on time and it is killing us.
