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Going after Trump......again

I've asked Bob to interpret it for us since he seems to be the expert.
It seems that previous rulings, when brought before Circuit Judges, ended in support of the POTUS's rights to his documents.
See William Clinton and his sock tapes, Obama https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-administration-spent-36m-on-records-lawsuits-last-year/, and now Biden.
But TTRRUUMMPP!!
Not an expert, I just read stuff. You should try it.

The socks case is not the same. There were no classified government documents. They were personal recordings with a historian to be used for a book after he left office. Not even close to the same.

Why don’t you post some of the previous judges rulings you refer to.

Gonna post this again. It appears you guys don’t want to read the law or about the facts of what trump has done. I guess if you aren’t aware of the facts you don’t have wrestle with your loyalty or your sense of right and wrong.

Go ahead. Believe what trump tells you……today. But you have to keep up on his arguments because they will change tomorrow.

 
Then WHY did you jump into an argument about the damn PRA?

Apparently to change the conversation to the media. Again.

If you nothing about the topic you probably shouldn’t post.
Right, I have to know everything about everything in order to comment. Got it 👍

Sounds like you need to stay out of just about every argument then.
 
However, they get the most bang for the buck in benefits.
That's kinda what I'm trying to say. This is why I'm for student loan forgiveness for example. So that we, the middle class can enjoy some of these benefits. The middle class, for the most part, does not qualify for Pell Grants and other similar programs for college kids. So now, the middle class has to take out student loans. Then on top of raising families, car loans, mortgages, etc., we have the student loan burden. The poor get to go to college for free. The rich kids can pay for their college outright. So why not have some relief for us middle-class folks? The right wingers are against student loan forgiveness. But yet celebrate and promote tax breaks for the rich. I can't understand that for the life of me.
 
That's kinda what I'm trying to say. This is why I'm for student loan forgiveness for example. So that we, the middle class can enjoy some of these benefits. The middle class, for the most part, does not qualify for Pell Grants and other similar programs for college kids. So now, the middle class has to take out student loans. Then on top of raising families, car loans, mortgages, etc., we have the student loan burden. The poor get to go to college for free. The rich kids can pay for their college outright. So why not have some relief for us middle-class folks? The right wingers are against student loan forgiveness. But yet celebrate and promote tax breaks for the rich. I can't understand that for the life of me.

I am a conservative who dislikes both parties BUT as far as student debt....
In no way am I am interested in another Govt giveaway on top of the 80 programs we already have now. NO!

Why does the liberal mind continually want to look to Govt for help and assistance? How about relying on themselves?

As far as tax breaks for the rich.....it is beyond me why one guy pays a higher % than the next? Afterall, I hear we are supposed to be EQUAL??

We all should pay 10 or less%......and Govt should be glad they get that...as Govt does nothing well.

Not sure I understand the liberal fixation on the rich, & what the rich pay?? Why is it anyone's business what the next guy pays anyway?
 
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That's kinda what I'm trying to say. This is why I'm for student loan forgiveness for example. So that we, the middle class can enjoy some of these benefits. The middle class, for the most part, does not qualify for Pell Grants and other similar programs for college kids. So now, the middle class has to take out student loans. Then on top of raising families, car loans, mortgages, etc., we have the student loan burden. The poor get to go to college for free. The rich kids can pay for their college outright. So why not have some relief for us middle-class folks? The right wingers are against student loan forgiveness. But yet celebrate and promote tax breaks for the rich. I can't understand that for the life of me.
I’m not for anyone getting a college education for free. I think they should have to pay some amount. If they are a student athlete they are paying the university for representation.

Just like taxes, everyone should pay something. Not in favor of the free loader off my back.
 
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I’m not for anyone getting a college education for free. I think they should have to pay some amount. If they are a student athlete they are paying the university for representation.

Just like taxes, everyone should pay something. Not in favor of the free loader off my back.
Student athletes don’t pay the university crap. Now they got this NIL BS that is ruining college sports.
 
Student athletes don’t pay the university crap. Now they got this NIL BS that is ruining college sports.
Ruining? If it wasn’t for NIL, Zach Edey wouldn’t be coming back to play another year for Purdue. Is this similar to that brilliant comment you made about Trump “ruining” the Republican Party? It’s hard to believe that somebody is as consistently wrong about everything like you are.
 
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Just look at how they lied about the vaccine safe and effective and they knew it was neither more athletes have died than ever with heart problems and remember the LIE the pandemic of the unvaccinated
 
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Student athletes don’t pay the university crap. Now they got this NIL BS that is ruining college sports.
Student athletes play for the university and broadcasting pays the conference a lot of money that gets distributed to the school. These athletes pay in sweat equity in the major sports way more than tuition.
 
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Ruining? If it wasn’t for NIL, Zach Edey wouldn’t be coming back to play another year for Purdue. Is this similar to that brilliant comment you made about Trump “ruining” the Republican Party? It’s hard to believe that somebody is as consistently wrong about everything like you are.
Purdue is also being out NIL’ed by other schools that have been offering more money. That is how NIL is ruining college sports.
 
Student athletes play for the university and broadcasting pays the conference a lot of money that gets distributed to the school. These athletes pay in sweat equity in the major sports way more than tuition.
These student athletes get a free education from outstanding universities. That is good enough.
 
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Not an expert, I just read stuff. You should try it.

The socks case is not the same. There were no classified government documents. They were personal recordings with a historian to be used for a book after he left office. Not even close to the same.

Why don’t you post some of the previous judges rulings you refer to.

Gonna post this again. It appears you guys don’t want to read the law or about the facts of what trump has done. I guess if you aren’t aware of the facts you don’t have wrestle with your loyalty or your sense of right and wrong.

Go ahead. Believe what trump tells you……today. But you have to keep up on his arguments because they will change tomorrow.

I never said what Trump did was right or OK.
I said why is he being treated differently than others that did worse and can't claim the PRA as an excuse.
You know Biden and HRC had thousands of classified documents in their possession and they weren't the ## POTUS.
Obama fought to and keep his records and won his case.
Slick Willy won his socks case.
So Judges have interpreted the PRA differently than you.
 
These student athletes get a free education from outstanding universities. That is good enough.
Exactly right! They get a free education through their sweat equity. I’m against all others getting it absolutely free. These students should pay something.
 
I never said what Trump did was right or OK.
I said why is he being treated differently than others that did worse and can't claim the PRA as an excuse.
You know Biden and HRC had thousands of classified documents in their possession and they weren't the ## POTUS.
Obama fought to and keep his records and won his case.
Slick Willy won his socks case.
So Judges have interpreted the PRA differently than you.
This is what happens when people have a casual interest in the facts.

Trumps case is different. EVERY CASE is different.

No one else has claimed to have returned all classified documents only to have still knowingly had them. No one has obstructed an investigation into retrieving classified documents.

Neither trump nor Biden nor HRC had it have thousands of classified documents.

No one can legally keep classified documents, not even the former president. Those belong to the government. That’s what the PRA says, which you obviously have still not read.

You are simply listening to trump or his mouthpieces……..and when you just repeat the socks position with no explanation it’s clear you aren’t interested in the facts. Bye
 
I never said what Trump did was right or OK.
I said why is he being treated differently than others that did worse and can't claim the PRA as an excuse.
You know Biden and HRC had thousands of classified documents in their possession and they weren't the ## POTUS.
Obama fought to and keep his records and won his case.
Slick Willy won his socks case.
So Judges have interpreted the PRA differently than you.

Yes, the Dems always need reminded......no one will ever know how many classified documents HRC had in her possession. Some for sure, via Comey's "investigation" lol. And not the POTUS. So she should have none. Since HRC deleted so many documents, bleachbit, and trashed so many cell phones with hammers......we will never know the extent of her illegal activities. But no doubt these actions seem to be an obstruction of justice in her attempt to cover up her crimes through evidence tampering. But we know Democrats are incapable of crimes. LOL
 
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Purdue is also being out NIL’ed by other schools that have been offering more money. That is how NIL is ruining college sports.
Purdue has been out paid since the beginning of college sports. NIL is now just paying kids above board and it’s helping keep players like Edey and other play in college which really helps the sport. It’s not ruining college sports and I’m running out of room on this mile long scribe of things that you’re dead wrong about.
 
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That is the tax rates. I’m talking about how much they actually pay after all of the deductions.
So, do you think wealthy people shouldn't legally use tax law to their advantage to reduce their tax burden? Who in their right mind thinks it's a good idea to give the gubment more money.

Do you think the gubment knows how to spend your money better than you do?
 
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So, do you think wealthy people shouldn't legally use tax law to their advantage to reduce their tax burden? Who in their right mind thinks it's a good idea to give the gubment more money.

Do you think the gubment knows how to spend your money better than you do?
They already do with the current laws.
 
Courtesy Pamela Hemphill:
Actual truth has erupted on Truth Social.

It came on Monday, after Donald Trump posted a compound falsehood.

“AMERICAN JUSTICE: 69-year-old Grandma with Cancer given more prison time for walking inside US Capitol than Hunter Biden for sharing classified documents with foreign regimes and multi-million dollar bribery schemes.”

Trump endorsed the lies with a one word comment.

“HORRIBLE.”

But then that same grandma with cancer, who is actually 70, came right at him.

“Please @realDonaldTrump don’t be using me for anything, I’m not a victim of Jan 6, I pleaded guilty because I was guilty! #StopTheSpin,” Pamela Hemphill of Idaho wrote on the platform.

She added that Trump should not compare her to the current president’s son.

“He didn’t try to attack the Capitol!” she tweeted.

Hemphill says that until three months ago she was under the spell of what she calls “the Trump cult.” She attended the Jan. 6 rally as a self-appointed “citizen journalist” and videographer after her brother gave her a plane ticket to Washington. He was trying to lift her spirits as she fought breast cancer.

“My brother calls, says, ‘Hey, you, since you’re going to start chemotherapy, why don’t you go see Trump and video-record that?’” she told The Daily Beast. “I said I couldn’t afford it. But he said, ‘I’ll give it to you for a Christmas present.’”

Three days after Christmas, Hemphill announced on Facebook that she was going to Washington.

“It’s not going to be a FUN Trump rally that is planned for January 6th, it’s a WAR!”

She added, “The fight for America is REAL, show up. I don’t need to hear your excuses!” We have no second chances. If Millions, and I mean Millions show up, we may have a chance. FIND A WAY!”

That New Year’s Eve, a friend posted on Facebook what Hemphill says was just a joke photo of her holding a plastic rifle.

“Happy New Year! On my way to Washington on January 6,” the caption read.

Hemphill later said that she had not realized how lost she had become.

“You don’t see it as a cult when you’re in it,” she told The Daily Beast. “You don’t recognize it.”

She says she still had 40 stitches from her breast surgery when she was caught up in the rush into the Capitol building. She credits one of the cops with saving her from serious injury. A combination of excitement and pain medication caused her to then urge the crowd to go on in, she says

“This is your house. Your house!” she can be heard saying on her own video.

That next morning, she flew back to Boise. She was home eight months later when FBI agents arrived at her door and arrested her. They were nothing like the jackbooted feds of far-right fictions.
“The FBI were really good to me,” she recalled. “They just have procedures. It’s just what they do.”

The agents agreed to let her just sit down and collect herself.

“I said, ‘I gotta vape for a minute here. I’m nervous. I’ve never been in jail in my life,’” she recalled.

After Hemphill pleaded guilty to invading the Capitol, she was sentenced to 60 days in prison. In mid-July of last year, she paid two months rent in advance and surrendered at the federal prison in Dublin, California. She says that a large number of her fellow inmates were “cartel women.” They had not forgotten Trump’s diatribes against Mexican immigrants and they knew what being a Jan. 6 prisoner meant.

“They hate Trump,” she said. “I was lucky to get out.”

Hemphill says the 60 days felt like an eternity, and during the long hours she started to understand why the “cartel women” felt the way they did about Trump. She said she had deepening doubts that the election had really been stolen.

“I was starting to see things,” she recalled. “I was back and forth, not knowing what to believe.”

But Trumpism kept its hold on her until after she was back home and family members began speaking hard truth to her just as she had to alcoholics and drug abusers before she retired as a substance abuse counselor.

“Telling me, ‘Pam, you’re in a cult. You really need to get out of that… We really care about you, but this is a cult. You’re trapped in a cult,’” she recalled.

She began to see the Trump who had been there all along.

“I started seeing the narcissistic behavior,” she recalled. “And I said, ‘Wait, wait, this is gaslighting. This is not true.’” She began to listen to what her gut had been telling her.

“I never liked how he talked to people anyway,” she recalled. “He’s rude. He’s very mean to people.”

She discerned the truth about “fake news.”


Tell everybody it’s fake news and they don’t listen to that news,” she said.

She became angry when Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) and others spoke of her as a victim.

“What’s happened is they're using me like a victim,” Hemphill said. “I’m not a victim. I pleaded guilty because I was guilty, period. I mean, I was trespassing. I had a choice—I could have left.”

And she was disturbed by the ongoing Trump mania.

“All those flags with his picture on it and T-shirts,” she said. “It’s like, ‘Wait, you guys, this is getting a little weird.’”

In the meantime, other Jan. 6 participants and their supporters were bombarding Hemphill with texts and tweets.

“Just telling me all their victimness, gaslighting,” she recalled. “And I started saying, ‘Wait, wait, wait. You guys, the officers were nice to me. I don’t see what you’re talking about.’ I started hearing all their lies, their stories. I said, ‘Wait, it doesn’t look like [the police] started anything.’”

In April, Hemphill finally broke the spell. She told herself what her family had been telling her.

“I said, ‘This is it. Pam, this is a cult. Just face it. Back away a hundred percent,’” she recalled.

Those still deep in the cult were furious.

“I started debunking them and they got mad at me and they started getting more mad at me and started a smear campaign on me,” Hemphill recalled. “That I was a fed agent. That I was antifa. Just silly children, high school stuff.”

She was exiled from the Jan. 6 Twitter spaces. She started one of her own that filled with people who wielded the best weapon against a cult.

“Facts,” she said.
 
They already do with the current laws.
then what are you complaining about?
You've essentially said that
1) wealthy people don't pay their fair share (which we've easily refuted. They pay considerably more than their fair share) and that
and
2) wealthy people take advantage of tax breaks and loopholes. Which is 100% true. But then you don't answer the follow up question: If it's legal and it can reduce their tax burden, then why shouldn't they?
3) Do you personally do anything to lower what you owe in taxes?
 
Courtesy Pamela Hemphill:
Actual truth has erupted on Truth Social.

It came on Monday, after Donald Trump posted a compound falsehood.

“AMERICAN JUSTICE: 69-year-old Grandma with Cancer given more prison time for walking inside US Capitol than Hunter Biden for sharing classified documents with foreign regimes and multi-million dollar bribery schemes.”

Trump endorsed the lies with a one word comment.

“HORRIBLE.”

But then that same grandma with cancer, who is actually 70, came right at him.

“Please @realDonaldTrump don’t be using me for anything, I’m not a victim of Jan 6, I pleaded guilty because I was guilty! #StopTheSpin,” Pamela Hemphill of Idaho wrote on the platform.

She added that Trump should not compare her to the current president’s son.

“He didn’t try to attack the Capitol!” she tweeted.

Hemphill says that until three months ago she was under the spell of what she calls “the Trump cult.” She attended the Jan. 6 rally as a self-appointed “citizen journalist” and videographer after her brother gave her a plane ticket to Washington. He was trying to lift her spirits as she fought breast cancer.

“My brother calls, says, ‘Hey, you, since you’re going to start chemotherapy, why don’t you go see Trump and video-record that?’” she told The Daily Beast. “I said I couldn’t afford it. But he said, ‘I’ll give it to you for a Christmas present.’”

Three days after Christmas, Hemphill announced on Facebook that she was going to Washington.

“It’s not going to be a FUN Trump rally that is planned for January 6th, it’s a WAR!”

She added, “The fight for America is REAL, show up. I don’t need to hear your excuses!” We have no second chances. If Millions, and I mean Millions show up, we may have a chance. FIND A WAY!”

That New Year’s Eve, a friend posted on Facebook what Hemphill says was just a joke photo of her holding a plastic rifle.

“Happy New Year! On my way to Washington on January 6,” the caption read.

Hemphill later said that she had not realized how lost she had become.

“You don’t see it as a cult when you’re in it,” she told The Daily Beast. “You don’t recognize it.”

She says she still had 40 stitches from her breast surgery when she was caught up in the rush into the Capitol building. She credits one of the cops with saving her from serious injury. A combination of excitement and pain medication caused her to then urge the crowd to go on in, she says

“This is your house. Your house!” she can be heard saying on her own video.

That next morning, she flew back to Boise. She was home eight months later when FBI agents arrived at her door and arrested her. They were nothing like the jackbooted feds of far-right fictions.
“The FBI were really good to me,” she recalled. “They just have procedures. It’s just what they do.”

The agents agreed to let her just sit down and collect herself.

“I said, ‘I gotta vape for a minute here. I’m nervous. I’ve never been in jail in my life,’” she recalled.

After Hemphill pleaded guilty to invading the Capitol, she was sentenced to 60 days in prison. In mid-July of last year, she paid two months rent in advance and surrendered at the federal prison in Dublin, California. She says that a large number of her fellow inmates were “cartel women.” They had not forgotten Trump’s diatribes against Mexican immigrants and they knew what being a Jan. 6 prisoner meant.

“They hate Trump,” she said. “I was lucky to get out.”

Hemphill says the 60 days felt like an eternity, and during the long hours she started to understand why the “cartel women” felt the way they did about Trump. She said she had deepening doubts that the election had really been stolen.

“I was starting to see things,” she recalled. “I was back and forth, not knowing what to believe.”

But Trumpism kept its hold on her until after she was back home and family members began speaking hard truth to her just as she had to alcoholics and drug abusers before she retired as a substance abuse counselor.

“Telling me, ‘Pam, you’re in a cult. You really need to get out of that… We really care about you, but this is a cult. You’re trapped in a cult,’” she recalled.

She began to see the Trump who had been there all along.

“I started seeing the narcissistic behavior,” she recalled. “And I said, ‘Wait, wait, this is gaslighting. This is not true.’” She began to listen to what her gut had been telling her.

“I never liked how he talked to people anyway,” she recalled. “He’s rude. He’s very mean to people.”

She discerned the truth about “fake news.”


Tell everybody it’s fake news and they don’t listen to that news,” she said.

She became angry when Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) and others spoke of her as a victim.

“What’s happened is they're using me like a victim,” Hemphill said. “I’m not a victim. I pleaded guilty because I was guilty, period. I mean, I was trespassing. I had a choice—I could have left.”

And she was disturbed by the ongoing Trump mania.

“All those flags with his picture on it and T-shirts,” she said. “It’s like, ‘Wait, you guys, this is getting a little weird.’”

In the meantime, other Jan. 6 participants and their supporters were bombarding Hemphill with texts and tweets.

“Just telling me all their victimness, gaslighting,” she recalled. “And I started saying, ‘Wait, wait, wait. You guys, the officers were nice to me. I don’t see what you’re talking about.’ I started hearing all their lies, their stories. I said, ‘Wait, it doesn’t look like [the police] started anything.’”

In April, Hemphill finally broke the spell. She told herself what her family had been telling her.

“I said, ‘This is it. Pam, this is a cult. Just face it. Back away a hundred percent,’” she recalled.

Those still deep in the cult were furious.

“I started debunking them and they got mad at me and they started getting more mad at me and started a smear campaign on me,” Hemphill recalled. “That I was a fed agent. That I was antifa. Just silly children, high school stuff.”

She was exiled from the Jan. 6 Twitter spaces. She started one of her own that filled with people who wielded the best weapon against a cult.

“Facts,” she said.
Come on....we all know Bob wrote this with some help from BNI.
 
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Come on....we all know Bob wrote this with some help from BNI.
That post is especially upsetting because I had thought hfjm had taken our encouragement and slunk back to his native leo-oosier forums. They must have kicked him out and now he is back, lowering the average IQ on this forum.
 
Come on....we all know Bob wrote this with some help from BNI.
Sounds like a jailhouse conversion by someone saying what she knows the police state wants to hear in hopes of getting an early release. Horrible.
 
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They already do with the current laws.
That's not what he asked you...

He asked: "do you think wealthy people shouldn't legally use tax law to their advantage to reduce their tax burden?"

It's a yes or no. Not a, well they already do.

Just face the facts that the rich pays for pretty much everything in this country and the left crying to tax the rich more is nothing more than class warfare. Those same people saying we need to tax the rich more are the ones that implement all of those deductions that you hate so much so that they don't have to be taxed so hard.
 
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I personally think we need to have a flat tax or near flat tax with very very few deductions. Allow deductions for home loans and essential items, but not the million different things we have now. Everyone pays ~9% (or whatever is a good number) and make doing taxes simple. Stop the huge expense and complication of how our taxes are done now. Reduce the cost drastically of compliance which would get put back into the economy.

Either that or a consumption tax and a low income tax (7%?) on people making over $300,000 (again, arbitrary. The right number would need to be figured out).

This would also allow us to pretty much completely gut the IRS (which is just a strong arm of whatever party is in power at the time) and we'd need to seriously reduce or cut other unnecessary programs/departments.

Government needs to shrink drastically.
 
This is what happens when people have a casual interest in the facts.

Trumps case is different. EVERY CASE is different.

No one else has claimed to have returned all classified documents only to have still knowingly had them. No one has obstructed an investigation into retrieving classified documents.

Neither trump nor Biden nor HRC had it have thousands of classified documents.

No one can legally keep classified documents, not even the former president. Those belong to the government. That’s what the PRA says, which you obviously have still not read.

You are simply listening to trump or his mouthpieces……..and when you just repeat the socks position with no explanation it’s clear you aren’t interested in the facts. Bye
The difference between the Biden, HRC cases and Trump's case, is Trump was the POTUS and the PRA allows him to declassify documents. As POTUS Trump is allowed 5 years to negotiate what documents he is allowed to keep.
HRC and Biden had no right to posses classified documents.

Let's play another game.
What is the difference between the Manafort, Hunter and the Foreign Government Registration Act?
Did Hunter get registered?
Did the DOJ investigate where the millions Hunter got paid came from?
Manafort spent time in solitary confinement, in jail, Hunter goes to a State Sponsored White House Dinner.

Hunter also had is pass port revoked by the Feds and IRS for owing back taxes.
Didn't stop him from joining Dad on over seas trips on AF2 and now AF1.
 
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