For the liberals and Democrats on here

[BoilermakerD]

I agree that the regime change mentality of the Bushes and Clinton’s has to stop (Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, etc). Trump is trying to do that. He’s trying to avoid wars. The globalists /open borders crowd are the ones pushing for these wars. And where have the Syrians, Iraqis, and Libyans flooded? Europe and to a lesser extent the USA. Anyone who says that these wars weren’t started on purpose is being very naive.

I have to ask you... having read my posts.. do you trust that I am honest about the flaws of the Martha’s Vineyard Democrats (the only democrats on the “liberal media” and pretty much the only ones in Washington).

Having bashed them, as I will continue to do... let me say this:

Trump is just a regular republican ... he’s not the Devil... he’s not hitlet.. he’s not Putin’s puppet..

But he’s also not a populist reformer .... he is the embodiment of george Carlin’s one big club that you ain’t in...

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Things went well from 33-80... when we were much closer to mass prosperity than sanders could bring us in his life.

You had more socialism ... in a democracy, you should never get full socialism.. because no everyone wants socialism... the best you can hope for in a democracy is heavy socialist influence.. or:

Spending your money on your people and not on handouts to people who get rich or richer because they “know a guy.”

I agree with a lot of what you're saying with respect to military spending and corporate handouts, in particular. But you lose me when you talk about spending "on your people", because it never works out the way you (socialists) intend. Spend on infrastructure? Sure. Overall, the federal government should be spending a whole hell of a lot less money across the board... and also doing a whole hell of a lot less in individual states. IMO we need to return the power to the states the way it was supposed to be in the first place. If a state, then, wants a more socialist bent, they can have at it at the state level. As it stands today, we get the "double whammy" in places like CT, NY, and CA.

 

[tjreese]

Again, Socialism has never solved corruption, and neither has Democracy. "Democratic Socialism" won't either. Human nature is to leverage power to personal benefit, and that's what will happen regardless of the system. Bernie hasn't cracked the code on anything other than energizing naive young people who will someday be the older, wealthier people who have to fund all the BS Bernie wants the government to do.

grow the government...grow the corruption and waste

 

[gr8indoorsman]

But he’s also not a populist reformer .... he is the embodiment of george Carlin’s one big club that you ain’t in...

Agree 100%. He sold his base a bill of goods, and they continue to lap it up like cats at the milk bowl.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Agree 100%. He sold his base a bill of goods, and they continue to lap it up like cats at the milk bowl.

Meow!

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Meow!

ROAR!!!!!!

 

[SDBoiler1]

I have to ask you... having read my posts.. do you trust that I am honest about the flaws of the Martha’s Vineyard Democrats (the only democrats on the “liberal media” and pretty much the only ones in Washington).

Having bashed them, as I will continue to do... let me say this:

Trump is just a regular republican ... he’s not the Devil... he’s not hitlet.. he’s not Putin’s puppet..

But he’s also not a populist reformer .... he is the embodiment of george Carlin’s one big club that you ain’t in...

Sorry, but on Trump we disagree. If he was just another R we would have gotten a Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio and more of the same R hogwash we’ve gotten since GHWB.

Trump is a populist and he does things unlike any President in our lifetimes. He isn’t politically correct. He says what he thinks - sometimes to his own detriment. He is not an unfettered free trader. He is not an open borders globalist like so many Establishment Rs (and Ds). He has tried to get our trade deals fixed. He has tried to fix our problems with North Korea, ending nearly 70 years of being in a state of war. Many Establishment politicians said he will never get it fixed. We’ll see......

He has called out European allies for not pulling their own weight w.r.t NATO and the UN. He pulled us out of the Paris Climate Accords, which would have shackled the US with burdensome targets while allowing heavy polluters like China and India off easy.

 

[tjreese]

Sorry, but on Trump we disagree. If he was just another R we would have gotten a Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio and more of the same R hogwash we’ve gotten since GHWB.

Trump is a populist and he does things unlike any President in our lifetimes. He isn’t politically correct. He says what he thinks - sometimes to his own detriment. He is not an unfettered free trader. He is not an open borders globalist like so many Establishment Rs (and Ds). He has tried to get our trade deals fixed. He has tried to fix our problems with North Korea, ending nearly 70 years of being in a state of war. Many Establishment politicians said he will never get it fixed. We’ll see......

He has called out European allies for not pulling their own weight w.r.t NATO and the UN. He pulled us out of the Paris Climate Accords, which would have shackled the US with burdensome targets while allowing heavy polluters like China and India off easy.

nobody has in my lifetime had the media opposition that Trump has. Like or dislike him...he has some differences

 

[BoilermakerD]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying with respect to military spending and corporate handouts, in particular. But you lose me when you talk about spending "on your people", because it never works out the way you (socialists) intend. Spend on infrastructure? Sure. Overall, the federal government should be spending a whole hell of a lot less money across the board... and also doing a whole hell of a lot less in individual states. IMO we need to return the power to the states the way it was supposed to be in the first place. If a state, then, wants a more socialist bent, they can have at it at the state level. As it stands today, we get the "double whammy" in places like CT, NY, and CA.

You could cut defense related spending 800 bill (currently a trillion, Russia spends 59 billion) do things like:

Free college at state schools (think governors state not Purdue, but with federal dollars purdue could be much cheaper) - 35 billion

Eradicating homelessness - 20 billion

And probably still cut taxes on after massive infrastructure

The closest thing we’ve ever gotten to socialists running anything was FDR that went well...

And I kinda feel like you say “i agree on defense spending” like it’s not 700 billion more than it was in the last year pre 911.... the unnecessary things we socialize for the sake of the profit of very few dwarf my wish list ...

 

[BoilermakerD]

Sorry, but on Trump we disagree. If he was just another R we would have gotten a Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio and more of the same R hogwash we’ve gotten since GHWB.

Trump is a populist and he does things unlike any President in our lifetimes. He isn’t politically correct. He says what he thinks - sometimes to his own detriment. He is not an unfettered free trader. He is not an open borders globalist like so many Establishment Rs (and Ds). He has tried to get our trade deals fixed. He has tried to fix our problems with North Korea, ending nearly 70 years of being in a state of war. Many Establishment politicians said he will never get it fixed. We’ll see......

He has called out European allies for not pulling their own weight w.r.t NATO and the UN. He pulled us out of the Paris Climate Accords, which would have shackled the US with burdensome targets while allowing heavy polluters like China and India off easy.

Look at the policies he’s passing...

You can’t say he wants to end the wars and then look at how he and Democratic senators got together for the very REGULAR REPUBLICAN SHIT of adding 80 billion in defense spending ...

And then say he’s different ...

 

[BoilermakerD]

Sorry, but on Trump we disagree. If he was just another R we would have gotten a Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio and more of the same R hogwash we’ve gotten since GHWB.

Trump is a populist and he does things unlike any President in our lifetimes. He isn’t politically correct. He says what he thinks - sometimes to his own detriment. He is not an unfettered free trader. He is not an open borders globalist like so many Establishment Rs (and Ds). He has tried to get our trade deals fixed. He has tried to fix our problems with North Korea, ending nearly 70 years of being in a state of war. Many Establishment politicians said he will never get it fixed. We’ll see......

He has called out European allies for not pulling their own weight w.r.t NATO and the UN. He pulled us out of the Paris Climate Accords, which would have shackled the US with burdensome targets while allowing heavy polluters like China and India off easy.

Do you think if Clinton as a populist who brought the middle class back to their FDR heyday?

 

[BoilermakerD]

grow the government...grow the corruption and waste

Grow the private contributions grow the corruption .... you’re talking like “hey they get more tax dollars in revenue they start suddenly looking out for donors...” no! They get more corporate cash and it doesn’t matter if the government has 2.25 trillion or 5 dollars... they look out for their gravy train...

I want to ask you why is pelosi a leader? What makes her one? Cause I didn’t know this a year ago

 

[tjreese]

Grow the private contributions grow the corruption .... you’re talking like “hey they get more tax dollars in revenue they start suddenly looking out for donors...” no! They get more corporate cash and it doesn’t matter if the government has 2.25 trillion or 5 dollars... they look out for their gravy train...

I want to ask you why is pelosi a leader? What makes her one? Cause I didn’t know this a year ago

I don't think she is a leader! she may be placed in a position, but nto sure she is a leader. If I waste my money on private contributions...that is much better than the government wasting my money. How did we get to teh point that we think our money is what is left over after the giovernment takes what it wants? AGain, I'm for limited government and more going to the states than the feds...

 

[BoilermakerD]

I don't think she is a leader! she may be placed in a position, but nto sure she is a leader. If I waste my money on private contributions...that is much better than the government wasting my money. How did we get to teh point that we think our money is what is left over after the giovernment takes what it wants? AGain, I'm for limited government and more going to the states than the feds...

I agree ... you’re right .., but what I’m asking is.... how is it that anyone is picked to be leader... what are they looking for? Hint ... it ain’t leadership

 

[gr8indoorsman]

You could cut defense related spending 800 bill (currently a trillion, Russia spends 59 billion) do things like:

Free college at state schools (think governors state not Purdue, but with federal dollars purdue could be much cheaper) - 35 billion

Eradicating homelessness - 20 billion

And probably still cut taxes on after massive infrastructure

The closest thing we’ve ever gotten to socialists running anything was FDR that went well...

And I kinda feel like you say “i agree on defense spending” like it’s not 700 billion more than it was in the last year pre 911.... the unnecessary things we socialize for the sake of the profit of very few dwarf my wish list ...

I don’t think you know what I actually think about defense spending. I am not in favor of cutting it as drastically as you, but we could make significant inroads in saving people money and eradicating federal waste by simply revamping our acquisitions process to limit the billions we spend on procurement that buys us precisely nothing, but keeps LM, GD, and other defense contracting companies afloat. Start there.

All that other social crap? No. The federal government has no business doing any of that IMO because it cannot be trusted to faithfully spend that kind of money efficiently, just as we can’t trust it to do so with the military. You want to continue trusting the bureaucracy to do what it has proven time and again that it cannot do, you just want it doing so in a different direction. That is utter folly.

 

[tjreese]

I agree ... you’re right .., but what I’m asking is.... how is it that anyone is picked to be leader... what are they looking for? Hint ... it ain’t leadership

most people are placed into leadership by being a good follower...the paradoxical situation!

 

[BoilermakerD]

most people are placed into leadership by being a good follower...the paradoxical situation!

No..: the way you become leader is to get the most corporate contributions then give it away and spread it around to your friends... leader should be subbed out for “most influential bribee.” That’s who becomes “leaders” in Congress... really did not know that till a year ago...

Pelosi’s net worth has gone to $100 million while in office

 

[BoilermakerD]

I don’t think you know what I actually think about defense spending. I am not in favor of cutting it as drastically as you, but we could make significant inroads in saving people money and eradicating federal waste by simply revamping our acquisitions process to limit the billions we spend on procurement that buys us precisely nothing, but keeps LM, GD, and other defense contracting companies afloat. Start there.

All that other social crap? No. The federal government has no business doing any of that IMO because it cannot be trusted to faithfully spend that kind of money efficiently, just as we can’t trust it to do so with the military. You want to continue trusting the bureaucracy to do what it has proven time and again that it cannot do, you just want it doing so in a different direction. That is utter folly.

Before we get past the first line... the people, by and large, believe that Iraq was fabricated and want the wars ended.. so I’d say to you what I said to the other guy... reverse the effects of the 96 telecom act, depropagandize and localize the media ... make it so the media doesn’t come from six sources, and can actually force the hand of politicians ... “no I don’t wanna to do any of that.. I like the military industrial complex... “ of course then you’d also have to get rid of the election fraud ...

So you’re anti trump right? You come off at least to me as a neoliberal.. disgusted by trump but anti social spending and ok with the status quo...

Well, 50% of all wage earners in the us making 30k or less, 70% making 50k or less... is how we got trump ... and trump is just a buffoon that the democrats thought would be hitler... if you keep saying “hey the financial landscape, I’m cool with it”... that’s how you get an actual totalitarian demagogue.

 

[BoilermakerD]

I don’t think you know what I actually think about defense spending. I am not in favor of cutting it as drastically as you, but we could make significant inroads in saving people money and eradicating federal waste by simply revamping our acquisitions process to limit the billions we spend on procurement that buys us precisely nothing, but keeps LM, GD, and other defense contracting companies afloat. Start there.

All that other social crap? No. The federal government has no business doing any of that IMO because it cannot be trusted to faithfully spend that kind of money efficiently, just as we can’t trust it to do so with the military. You want to continue trusting the bureaucracy to do what it has proven time and again that it cannot do, you just want it doing so in a different direction. That is utter folly.

It’s also hard to say “no... you get none of your tax dollars spent on you because that’s socialize or “social crap”... but the pentagon socialized computers right up until the point that it was profitable to privatize it..

We cited defense ...: had Silicon Valley tried to be Silicon Valley ten years earlier their brilliant asses would have gone broke ... it wasn’t viable yet as a consumer item .. the computer ...

So we can’t eradicate homelessness... we can’t have affordable college or single payer or any of it... but if you are a tech guy and you’d go flat busted broke.. we can tell you “hey we got this for the next 30 years... it’s on the pentagon..”

There never has been this welfare state problem fantasize about.. except as a piggy bank to the rich. It’s not that government “can’t be trusted.” It’s that rich people do things with all of our money that nobody wants

 

[gr8indoorsman]

...It’s not that government “can’t be trusted.” It’s that rich people do things with all of our money that nobody wants

Even in Democratic Socialism, this will still be the case. At least if it's happening at the state level, the way the money is spent is more likely to be targeted appropriately rather than a bunch of people from coastal states dictating what's best for everyone in Kansas and Alabama.

To your other point, Iraq was a huge waste of money, and I wasn't particularly in favor of it, but I also wasn't in favor of how we got out of it... but anyway we shouldn't necessarily have been in it in the first place. Otherwise, you're kind of all over the place...

I'm not "anti-Trump." He's the President. He's my commander-in-chief for better or for worse. I didn't like Bill Clinton either, but I followed his orders and I'll follow Trump's for another 15 months or so before my time is done. I hope Trump has success in some of the things he's attempting. Otherwise, I think he's an embarrassment. I think he's a demagogue. I don't think he's really the least bit competent. But I'm not openly rooting for him to fail either.

You think I'm a neo-liberal. SD thinks I'm a neo-conservative. Both of you think I'm OK with the status quo, and that's probably fair to some extent. I think there needs to be massive change in the way our government spends money - that is we need to spend less of it across the board, but first and foremost we need to stop wasting money on frivolous military spending, both operations & maintenance (O&M) and procurement... but particularly procurement. IMO, that is where we waste the most money. In that regard, I'm with John McCain and others who are attempting to fix our acquisitions process. I think we need to spend less dealing with other people's problems - you and I agree in that regard.

But as I said, the states need to be empowered to handle things for themselves. Let the feds worry about defense and border security as well as national trade policy and foreign relations. Get out of the politics of the bedroom. Get out of trying to solve social ills that are different from state-to-state and city-to-city. Solving the homeless problem, for example, in San Diego is not the same as trying to solve it in Hawaii or Minneapolis. Throwing money at it doesn't solve the problem.

And no, I don't think rich people are evil like you and Bernie apparently do.

 

[BoilerMadness]

One step in the right direction would be to stop constantly lying about things. Then we can talk!

I guess I'm so anti-American because I don't believe the leader of the free world should be caught lying to the American people and the world every single day, most days multiple times.

Were you upset when Obama lied to you daily?

 

[BoilerMadness]

Depends on your definition of valid. If by valid you mean a "gotcha" question that will allow you to fire back at anyone who criticizes the President, then sure, it's a valid question.

Fully knowing that this is a bad idea and won't come to any good, I'll answer.

Trump hasn't been nearly as terrible as I expected. That's not saying much, though, because "not destroying the nation completely" is a really low bar.

I think Trump has done some good things, but every last one of them has been overshadowed by his attitude and the awful things he says and does.

It is laughable that people still call Obama the most divisive president ever, as Trump has that category sewed up. At least Obama made efforts to reach across the aisle, to do things other than insult people who disagreed with him. He wasn't great, but he tried. It is the height of political hypocrisy that so many of the people who got so upset at Obama for being "divisive" and talked about how bad that divisiveness for the country now have nothing to say because the one doing the dividing is on "their side."

My general opinion of Trump hasn't changed one bit since the election - he's a narcissistic megalomaniac and an awful person.

You ask what it would take for me to support Trump. I'm not sure that's possible, because the reasons I don't support him are less policy than personality based. To earn my vote, Trump would have to totally change his personality and the tone of the conversation he leads. He would have to acknowledge that he is not perfect, admit that he has made mistakes, and be willing to allow people who are smarter than him to actually do their work without interference. Further, there would have to be a lot less time spent at Trump properties and a whole lot more financial transparency. We all know that's not going to happen, though. So I won't be voting for him, because some things are more important to me than policy.

I don't know which Obama you were watching, but it wasn't Barack. Not only did he NOT reach across the aisle, he shunned the Republicans during his tenure. Don't you remember his snarky comment about "elections have consequences". In fact, he hardly worked with the Dems in Congress either. Remember "I've got a pen and a phone". He ruled through Executive Orders, rather than trying to get legislation passed through Congress.

The only major legislation that Obama got passed through Congress was Obamacare and he had to lie like Hell to get that through, even though he had a super majority in the House and the Senate. Dems keep complaining about the bad deal the DACA kids are getting, but rather than fix the problem legislatively then, they decided it was more politically advantageous to keep the issue and use it against the Republicans. It's hard to see past the hypocrisy, when the Dems bring up the plight of the poor DACA kids.

Obama was divisive and he probably set race relations back 20 years, during his time in office.

Trump is rude and crude, but he's getting things done, in spite of the obstruction from ALL the Dems and a lot of the establishment Republicans. Trump has been his own worst enemy for the majority of his time in office. He would do a couple good things and then step all over them by saying or tweeting something stupid. The media would focus on the dumb comment and he got no credit for his achievements. It's times like that that you realize he's NOT a politician. Many times I've wanted to reach into the TV and slap him, when he said ridiculous things, but I'm past that now. I've learned to filter out the BS and concentrate on results. So far he's delivering on his campaign promises..

Obama was smooth and articulate, but he was corrupt. The first he heard about "Fast and Furious", which was being run out of his Justice Department, was when he saw a media report about it. Sure. He weaponized the IRS to stifle Conservative groups from getting tax-exempt status in the years leading up to his reelection run. When asked about it, Obama said there wasn't a scintilla of corruption in the IRS. We lose an Ambassador and 3 others in Benghazi a couple months before Obama's reelection run and he and Hillary make up this ridiculous story about the Libyans being upset about a video and having a spontaneous riot. I guess it's better to lie to the American people and the families of the deceased, than to admit that Al Qaeda is still alive and killing Americans. Then he weaponized the Justice Department and the FBI to protect Hillary and destroy Trump. And the MSM downplayed all of it, because they loved the guy.

You can forgive all that, yet you can't forgive Trump for being crude. Did you forgive Bill Clinton for turning the Oval Office into his own private Bordello and all his other sexual misconduct? Of course you did, because he has a D after his name.

 

[indy35]

I don't know which Obama you were watching, but it wasn't Barack. Not only did he NOT reach across the aisle, he shunned the Republicans during his tenure. Don't you remember his snarky comment about "elections have consequences". In fact, he hardly worked with the Dems in Congress either. Remember "I've got a pen and a phone". He ruled through Executive Orders, rather than trying to get legislation passed through Congress.

The only major legislation that Obama got passed through Congress was Obamacare and he had to lie like Hell to get that through, even though he had a super majority in the House and the Senate. Dems keep complaining about the bad deal the DACA kids are getting, but rather than fix the problem legislatively then, they decided it was more politically advantageous to keep the issue and use it against the Republicans. It's hard to see past the hypocrisy, when the Dems bring up the plight of the poor DACA kids.

Obama was divisive and he probably set race relations back 20 years, during his time in office.

Trump is rude and crude, but he's getting things done, in spite of the obstruction from ALL the Dems and a lot of the establishment Republicans. Trump has been his own worst enemy for the majority of his time in office. He would do a couple good things and then step all over them by saying or tweeting something stupid. The media would focus on the dumb comment and he got no credit for his achievements. It's times like that that you realize he's NOT a politician. Many times I've wanted to reach into the TV and slap him, when he said ridiculous things, but I'm past that now. I've learned to filter out the BS and concentrate on results. So far he's delivering on his campaign promises..

Obama was smooth and articulate, but he was corrupt. The first he heard about "Fast and Furious", which was being run out of his Justice Department, was when he saw a media report about it. Sure. He weaponized the IRS to stifle Conservative groups from getting tax-exempt status in the years leading up to his reelection run. When asked about it, Obama said there wasn't a scintilla of corruption in the IRS. We lose an Ambassador and 3 others in Benghazi a couple months before Obama's reelection run and he and Hillary make up this ridiculous story about the Libyans being upset about a video and having a spontaneous riot. I guess it's better to lie to the American people and the families of the deceased, than to admit that Al Qaeda is still alive and killing Americans. Then he weaponized the Justice Department and the FBI to protect Hillary and destroy Trump. And the MSM downplayed all of it, because they loved the guy.

You can forgive all that, yet you can't forgive Trump for being crude. Did you forgive Bill Clinton for turning the Oval Office into his own private Bordello and all his other sexual misconduct? Of course you did, because he has a D after his name.

The problem with all that you wrote is that it’s the Fox News version of events but not the real life factual version.

 

[tjreese]

No..: the way you become leader is to get the most corporate contributions then give it away and spread it around to your friends... leader should be subbed out for “most influential bribee.” That’s who becomes “leaders” in Congress... really did not know that till a year ago...

Pelosi’s net worth has gone to $100 million while in office

No question that many get more wealth than their salary provides. Most of those that become leaders in the house were good followers. People that spill the beans are absolutely needed, but the old saying of going along to get along carries a lot of weight. Had Pelosi not been a good follower of the system...she wouldn't be where she is. Gotta like someone that made money outside of Washington rather than inside Washington day in day out...

 

[TwinDegrees2]

I don't know which Obama you were watching, but it wasn't Barack. Not only did he NOT reach across the aisle, he shunned the Republicans during his tenure. Don't you remember his snarky comment about "elections have consequences". In fact, he hardly worked with the Dems in Congress either. Remember "I've got a pen and a phone". He ruled through Executive Orders, rather than trying to get legislation passed through Congress.

The only major legislation that Obama got passed through Congress was Obamacare and he had to lie like Hell to get that through, even though he had a super majority in the House and the Senate. Dems keep complaining about the bad deal the DACA kids are getting, but rather than fix the problem legislatively then, they decided it was more politically advantageous to keep the issue and use it against the Republicans. It's hard to see past the hypocrisy, when the Dems bring up the plight of the poor DACA kids.

Obama was divisive and he probably set race relations back 20 years, during his time in office.

Trump is rude and crude, but he's getting things done, in spite of the obstruction from ALL the Dems and a lot of the establishment Republicans. Trump has been his own worst enemy for the majority of his time in office. He would do a couple good things and then step all over them by saying or tweeting something stupid. The media would focus on the dumb comment and he got no credit for his achievements. It's times like that that you realize he's NOT a politician. Many times I've wanted to reach into the TV and slap him, when he said ridiculous things, but I'm past that now. I've learned to filter out the BS and concentrate on results. So far he's delivering on his campaign promises..

Obama was smooth and articulate, but he was corrupt. The first he heard about "Fast and Furious", which was being run out of his Justice Department, was when he saw a media report about it. Sure. He weaponized the IRS to stifle Conservative groups from getting tax-exempt status in the years leading up to his reelection run. When asked about it, Obama said there wasn't a scintilla of corruption in the IRS. We lose an Ambassador and 3 others in Benghazi a couple months before Obama's reelection run and he and Hillary make up this ridiculous story about the Libyans being upset about a video and having a spontaneous riot. I guess it's better to lie to the American people and the families of the deceased, than to admit that Al Qaeda is still alive and killing Americans. Then he weaponized the Justice Department and the FBI to protect Hillary and destroy Trump. And the MSM downplayed all of it, because they loved the guy.

You can forgive all that, yet you can't forgive Trump for being crude. Did you forgive Bill Clinton for turning the Oval Office into his own private Bordello and all his other sexual misconduct? Of course you did, because he has a D after his name.

Extremely well written!

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Even in Democratic Socialism, this will still be the case. At least if it's happening at the state level, the way the money is spent is more likely to be targeted appropriately rather than a bunch of people from coastal states dictating what's best for everyone in Kansas and Alabama.

To your other point, Iraq was a huge waste of money, and I wasn't particularly in favor of it, but I also wasn't in favor of how we got out of it... but anyway we shouldn't necessarily have been in it in the first place. Otherwise, you're kind of all over the place...

I'm not "anti-Trump." He's the President. He's my commander-in-chief for better or for worse. I didn't like Bill Clinton either, but I followed his orders and I'll follow Trump's for another 15 months or so before my time is done. I hope Trump has success in some of the things he's attempting. Otherwise, I think he's an embarrassment. I think he's a demagogue. I don't think he's really the least bit competent. But I'm not openly rooting for him to fail either.

You think I'm a neo-liberal. SD thinks I'm a neo-conservative. Both of you think I'm OK with the status quo, and that's probably fair to some extent. I think there needs to be massive change in the way our government spends money - that is we need to spend less of it across the board, but first and foremost we need to stop wasting money on frivolous military spending, both operations & maintenance (O&M) and procurement... but particularly procurement. IMO, that is where we waste the most money. In that regard, I'm with John McCain and others who are attempting to fix our acquisitions process. I think we need to spend less dealing with other people's problems - you and I agree in that regard.

But as I said, the states need to be empowered to handle things for themselves. Let the feds worry about defense and border security as well as national trade policy and foreign relations. Get out of the politics of the bedroom. Get out of trying to solve social ills that are different from state-to-state and city-to-city. Solving the homeless problem, for example, in San Diego is not the same as trying to solve it in Hawaii or Minneapolis. Throwing money at it doesn't solve the problem.

And no, I don't think rich people are evil like you and Bernie apparently do.

Are you active military, and if so what branch?

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Are you active military, and if so what branch?

Yes. Navy.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Were you upset when Obama lied to you daily?

Okay, I'll bite. Tell us one or two.

 

[miksta]

Okay, I'll bite. Tell us one or two.

lmao love me a good spoof account.

Please post here often and regularly.

 

[BoilerMadness]

The problem with all that you wrote is that it’s the Fox News version of events but not the real life factual version.

Yeah, reality doesn't mesh well with the CNN & MSNBC versions that you obviously subscribe to. Keep burying your head in the sand and avoid all light leaks. You'll be fine.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Okay, I'll bite. Tell us one or two.

I'll give you 4. Keep the change.

You can keep your doctor.
You can keep your current plan.
The average family of 4 will save about $2500/yr with Obamacare.
The Benghazi attack was the result of an inflammatory video.

If his lips were moving, he was lying and they were consequential lies.

 

[SDBoiler1]

lmao love me a good spoof account.

Please post here often and regularly.

Imitation is the best form of flattery?

 

[miksta]

Imitation is the best form of flattery?

Yeah, was really hoping niksta would've showed up by now.

 

[SCBoiler1]

I'll give you 4. Keep the change.

You can keep your doctor.
You can keep your current plan.
The average family of 4 will save about $2500/yr with Obamacare.
The Benghazi attack was the result of an inflammatory video.

If his lips were moving, he was lying and they were consequential lies.

Nice list.

On numbers one and two, while granted this ended up not being true for everyone it was true for the overwhelming majority of Americans. If you need me to explain to you how it works I can but I can't do it on a forum like this. Its a little complicated.

Number three was misleading because he used the term premiums in his statement but there were projections that the overall costs for a family of four would go down by $2,500. For example if you include the credit that middle class families receive to offset their premiums it probably wasn't a bad projection, There are a lot of moving parts here and even experts have had a hard time evaluating that statement.

Benghazi is Benghazi, The events where tragic. I think everyone can agree on that. I've never understood what difference it made whether the terrorist attacked because of a video or if it was a planned attack. I get the argument that some believe it made for better political cover for a week or two but these guys hate America and I don't think most people care what the motive was for the terrorist attack. Its a tragedy either way.

Now compare your list to the list in the article by the Brookings institute.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/04/13/trumps-lies-corrode-democracy/

I'm not going to respond to anything written to attack what I've written but I thought I'd give a little balance to the conversation.

 

[tjreese]

Nice list.

Benghazi is Benghazi, The events where tragic. I think everyone can agree on that. I've never understood what difference it made whether the terrorist attacked because of a video or if it was a planned attack. I get the argument that some believe it made for better political cover for a week or two but these guys hate America and I don't think most people care what the motive was for the terrorist attack. Its a tragedy either way.
.

I think it is important to remember that there was a deliberate lie by the administration to mislead the public by inferring that the video caused this. I think THAT is very important. Along with that was the subtle suggestions and some overt that "blameshifting" pointed to teh video rather than Benghazi standing on its own. I think the distinctions are "EXTREMELY IMPORTANT" not as a result of what happened, but in the analyst. To pretend the cause is something they know is not the cause at the time it was stated...should raise eyebrows into other areas of deceit.

 

[BoilerJS]

Nice list.

On numbers one and two, while granted this ended up not being true for everyone it was true for the overwhelming majority of Americans. If you need me to explain to you how it works I can but I can't do it on a forum like this. Its a little complicated.

Number three was misleading because he used the term premiums in his statement but there were projections that the overall costs for a family of four would go down by $2,500. For example if you include the credit that middle class families receive to offset their premiums it probably wasn't a bad projection, There are a lot of moving parts here and even experts have had a hard time evaluating that statement.

Benghazi is Benghazi, The events where tragic. I think everyone can agree on that. I've never understood what difference it made whether the terrorist attacked because of a video or if it was a planned attack. I get the argument that some believe it made for better political cover for a week or two but these guys hate America and I don't think most people care what the motive was for the terrorist attack. Its a tragedy either way.

Now compare your list to the list in the article by the Brookings institute.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/04/13/trumps-lies-corrode-democracy/

I'm not going to respond to anything written to attack what I've written but I thought I'd give a little balance to the conversation.

Health care costs have increased, not decreased.
However since Obama care the increases have decreased annually. It was close to 10% on average for a number of years. It increased 18% one year.
Benghazi, my biggest complaint with the video excuse was than Obama never declared it as a terror attack. He said it was an act of terror. He never said it was a terrorist act by ISIS.
Romney brought this up during the debate and got slammed by the mediator.

 

[tjreese]

Health care costs have increased, not decreased.
However since Obama care the increases have decreased annually. It was close to 10% on average for a number of years. It increased 18% one year.
Benghazi, my biggest complaint with the video excuse was than Obama never declared it as a terror attack. He said it was an act of terror. He never said it was a terrorist act by ISIS.
Romney brought this up during the debate and got slammed by the mediator.

the premise at teh time and why my comments on the lie was that "we" caused the terrorist attack. We inflamed them in some fashion and cannot do things like that. It was total BLAME SHIFTING putting us as somewhat responsible and deflecting the reality of the situation.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Yes. Navy.

thanks for your service.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Nice list.
Benghazi is Benghazi, The events where tragic. I think everyone can agree on that. I've never understood what difference it made whether the terrorist attacked because of a video or if it was a planned attack. I get the argument that some believe it made for better political cover for a week or two but these guys hate America and I don't think most people care what the motive was for the terrorist attack. Its a tragedy either way.

Now compare your list to the list in the article by the Brookings institute.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/04/13/trumps-lies-corrode-democracy/

I'm not going to respond to anything written to attack what I've written but I thought I'd give a little balance to the conversation.

Hillary, is that you? "What difference does it make?"

Jonathan Gruber, one of the architects of Obamacare, has repeatedly stated that Obama had to lie about Obamacare, because the program was designed to fail. The point was, that when it failed, the next logical step was Single Payer, because most people wouldn't have their old plans to return to. Single Payer is the Golden Fleece for the Left, because it will allow them to put the entire healthcare system under government control.

Benghazi is Benghazi - What a trite way to dismiss the deaths of 4 people, who didn't have to die. Hillary's incompetence and Obama's obsessive desire to win reelection kept them in Libya, when they should have been recalled. God forbid that Obama admit that Al Qaeda hadn't been destroyed and risk his reelection. Four lives are a cheap price to pay to stay in power. Then to compound that bad decision by lying about why the Embassy was attacked was just beyond reprehensible. Hillary knew it was a terrorist attack, while it was happening and she texted her daughter stating that. Then she lied to the families of the deceased about the video, and some of you believe she was the best person to be our next President. That's setting a very low standard.

Your link added very little balance to the conversation. Trump brags and tries to make everything bigger than it actually is. Big whoop. I only listed 4 Obama lies. I could have listed many more, which were a lot more consequential than bragging.

 

[indy35]

Hillary, is that you? "What difference does it make?"

Jonathan Gruber, one of the architects of Obamacare, has repeatedly stated that Obama had to lie about Obamacare, because the program was designed to fail. The point was, that when it failed, the next logical step was Single Payer, because most people wouldn't have their old plans to return to. Single Payer is the Golden Fleece for the Left, because it will allow them to put the entire healthcare system under government control.

Benghazi is Benghazi - What a trite way to dismiss the deaths of 4 people, who didn't have to die. Hillary's incompetence and Obama's obsessive desire to win reelection kept them in Libya, when they should have been recalled. God forbid that Obama admit that Al Qaeda hadn't been destroyed and risk his reelection. Four lives are a cheap price to pay to stay in power. Then to compound that bad decision by lying about why the Embassy was attacked was just beyond reprehensible. Hillary knew it was a terrorist attack, while it was happening and she texted her daughter stating that. Then she lied to the families of the deceased about the video, and some of you believe she was the best person to be our next President. That's setting a very low standard.

Your link added very little balance to the conversation. Trump brags and tries to make everything bigger than it actually is. Big whoop. I only listed 4 Obama lies. I could have listed many more, which were a lot more consequential than bragging.

None of the Republican committees could find any wrong doing by Clinton with Benghazi, but Fox News told you that she had to be responsible for the attack somehow so just go with that. An old dog won't learn new tricks but at least your generation is on it's way out and losing their stranglehold on politics, making way for a more knowledgeable and diverse environment.