And your idea of waiting until age 21 is a good one too but would be in favor of allowing minors to shoot and hunt as long as they are with an adult
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19 children
- Thread starter TeddyValentineDidNothingWrong
- Start date
Oh, I get it. Facts are “semantics” when they aren’t helpful to your unabashed gun control agenda.
Yet firearm deaths in the US tend to mostly happen in areas where people know there will be no resistance (gun free zones). In other countries that don't have guns, they have a high number of stabbings, beating to death, etc. WAY more than we do. Hard to stop someone from stabbing you when all you have are your fists or some other short range non lethal protection. Guns, whether you like it or not, are essential to personal safety as well as securing our freedoms. Especially for women. A 100lb woman can stop a 300 lb man with a gun. She's as good as dead without it.
There's a place for guns. There's a place for the right gun control measures (we already have most of them in place, but they aren't all being enforced well). Mental health is an issue, but I don't have the answers how to handle that. We, IMO, have to eliminate the gun free zones. They only embolden those that aren't going to follow the law.
guess we need to guard the grocery stores, churches & theaters too. 4% of the global population & 50% of the guns. US leads in school shootings worldwide.....rest of the planet sees the hypocrisy here.
I agree with a good deal of what you said, but not everything.
1) Mental health is not a red herring. You don’t see the correlation between shutting down mental institutions in the 1970s and a huge spike in prison populations since in the USA? It’s been estimated that nearly 40% of all prisoners in America would be in mental institutions instead of prisons if the institutions still existed in the numbers this country had before 1970. Also, who in their right mind goes into schools and shoots children, teachers, and support staff? Who in their right mind stands on the roof of a casino and shoots 50+ people attending a country music concert? Who in their right mind guns down fellow soldiers at Fort Hood indiscriminately? Who in their right mind goes into a Florida night club and guns down innocent people out for a night on the town? Who in their right mind walks into a church and guns down worshipers (South Carolina/Texas, etc.?
In CT, you are required to take a one-day gun safety training course (they actually use unloaded pistols in the training and show you how to hold the weapon, how to load a magazine, and proper ways to handle and unload the weapon, etc.) AND demonstrate to the certified instructor that you can handle and fire a pistol safely in the range after the classroom training. If you can’t do it, you don’t receive a certificate required to get a pistol permit. In CT you must have a pistol permit in order to legally purchase firearms. You are required to pass a written test sponsored by the NRA as well while in the gun training course. It’s not a difficult test, but there were people in my class who did not pass.
I am totally against holding a legal gun owner liable for a gun that’s stolen and used in a crime, which is what you’re advocating for. I don’t think it’s legal to do that to begin with and second of all how about holding the criminal who stole the weapon and used it to commit a crime responsible?
Why wasn’t this an issue 40 years ago? Have the guns changed? Nope. Have the people changed? Yep.
•Lack of discipline
•Lack of structure
•Broken homes
•Social media, and the narcissism that’s come with it.
•media sensationalism of these tragedies
•no accountability
•Bubble wrapping children and not allowing for natural development and problem solving
•spike in substance abuse, especially among adolescents (and I’m not talking pot)
•glorifying victimhood
I’d start with those
Yep and probably a slew of other factors. It’s definitely a complicated issue that’s been brewing for several generations.
You said it well.This society has some very complicated problems.
The biggest problem is easy to quantify and gets touched on a bit but Its the internet and other social media and the video and online games kids are playing. I was a kid building ramps to jump my bike over and see if id survive lol. Movies as well though. I remember reading a while back young kids and violent movies and TV and how they see the actors in another show and they see them coming back to life. The games Im sure are a factor. It takes people on the edge to start with. I dont even mean the internet as ways to figure out how to do evil but just the general effect. Look at the stuff talked about on here about what has changed and what is the biggest thing that has changed?
Video and online games are being played by millions for many hours a day. This has a large effect on the behavior patterns of people. This behavior which results from these games was not prevalent 30 years ago. Did we have so many mass shootings in schools and other venues back then? Seems like a good place to start looking into the mental behavior these games may have on these tragedies.
Yes. The 90s were awful for school shootings. Just mostly inner city so the truth was never mainstreamed. Lots of cops and metal detectors and bag searches. Inner city violence is disappeared by the liberal media.
I'm going to post a bunch of disinformation and won't reply to ANY OF IT!
@gr8indoorsman thinks a lot of himself. LoL.
What an absolute phony.
@gr8indoorsman thinks a lot of himself. LoL.
What an absolute phony.
Not getting into the argument, haven't even been keeping up with the thread, so someone may have already addressed this, but this is not true.
And yet you did get into the argument. Being a liberal lying comes naturally to you
What he said is correct. Guns that have the same capability have existed for a century. But yet we didn't see mass killings of 19 people at a school back then.
You and I agree that there should be mental health screenings associated with getting any guns. But let's not sit here and blame gun violence on one type of gun. It's not the gun's issue. It's the people using that gun...
As someone with ADD, and kids with ADD, I would say it's the opposite. There are a lot who use ADD as a crutch, an excuse and refuse to medicate or deal with it.
I grew up in time where it was diagnosed and treated, didn't find out until late into college when I had a visiting prof recognize it immediately because she had it and dealt with it. She gave me advice that turned me from a C student to an A student almost overnight.
My son takes medication as he learns to deal with it, of course he has Asperger's too, so that complicates things. But he would be more likely to cause issues not medicated than medicated and, in any case, we don't let him use those as a crutch and an excuse.
So as mentioned earlier, it comes back to a lack of personal responsibility anymore and people trying to give everyone an excuse for their actions.
Again, if you’re going to talk about things like arming the schools then yes, we need to talk about the guns, especially the easy accessibility to them in a variety of facets. It has to be all on the table.
I never talked about arming the schools. Not sure where that came from...
I'm all for having mental health screenings to keep weapons out of the hands of the mentally ill. I'm also okay with a waiting period that might take the emotion away from someone intent on hurting others. But when it comes to pointing out how taking away one particular firearm (AR15) as a panacea for solving gun violence, I completely disagree.
There are SIGNIFICANTLY more murders committed with handguns than there are AR15s or what others refer to as "weapons of war". Rifles are involved in 3% of murders. They are not even close to being the biggest issue when it comes to gun violence, period. The biggest issue is illegal guns on the street and the unwillingness to hold criminals accountable, like what happened in Sacramento.
Which types of firearms are most commonly used in gun murders in the U.S.?
In 2020, handguns were involved in 59% of the 13,620 U.S. gun murders and non-negligent manslaughters for which data is available, according to the FBI. Rifles – the category that includes guns sometimes referred to as “assault weapons” – were involved in 3% of firearm murders. Shotguns were involved in 1%. The remainder of gun homicides and non-negligent manslaughters (36%) involved other kinds of firearms or those classified as “type not stated.”
This will do nothing.
Violent video game engagement is not associated with adolescents' aggressive behaviour: evidence from a registered report | Royal Society Open Science
In this study, we investigated the extent to which adolescents who spend time playing violent video games exhibit higher levels of aggressive behaviour when compared with those who do not. A large sample of British adolescent participants (n = 1004) aged ...
royalsocietypublishing.org
Playing video games doesn't lead to violent behaviour, study shows
Analysis of 28 global studies dating back to 2008 found a minuscule positive correlation
What percentage of these mass shooters play first person shooter video games?
Didn’t have mass shootings like this when I was a kid. These same guns were around then, but these types of video games were not. Coincidence?
Correlation isn't causation. See the articles I linked above. I'm sure that most have played some at some point, but that's only because these games are so wide spread. Studies have shown that video games do not play a part.
I don't know when you were a kid, but mass shootings were a bigger problem in the 90's. We just didn't hear about them as much because we didn't have the national media we do today.
Read this and looked it up. Not sure about current rates but this is interesting. When it was written some things have changed as the use of assault weapons have increased and the overall numbers seem to be going up (my guess).
Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say
Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say.
news.northeastern.edu
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Interesting. Seems mass shootings in general (not just in schools) are more common now, but maybe that’s recency bias.Read this and looked it up. Not sure about current rates but this is interesting
Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say
Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say.
My favorite part is the American School Counselor Association recommending we double the amount of school counselors.
Whatever we decide the IDs and checks are for this, I'd like the same applied to voting and running for office.
Happy you and your son are doing well. My nephew also has ADD and takes medication. I probably should have left ADD out of my post but there does appear to be a higher degree of violence with teens and young adults who take antidepressants. I always thought it was odd for antidepressants TV commercials to end with the side effect statement of increased suicide with younger people but not with "older" folks. I guess the question is would these people be even worse without the medication?
Suicide And Antidepressants - Increased Anxiety, Related Suicides
FDA black-box warnings & several clinical studies link antidepressants to an increased risk of suicidal thoughts & behaviors, especially among young people.
www.drugwatch.com
I was surprised to see Red Florida has a minimum age of 21 to purchase any gun. IMO this makes sense for a bipartisan approval. Trump was in favor of this too. Interesting read how lawmakers are afraid of the NRA
www.grid.news
Trump proposed raising age limits for gun buys after the Parkland school shooting
In February 2018, days after a mass shooting in Parkland, Florida, then-President Donald Trump agreed with a specific policy proposal: raising the national minimum age to purchase rifles from 18 to 21.
www.grid.news
While I normally avoid engaging with you because nearly every post you make lacks substance and is an insult (including this one!), I'd be interested to see if you can actually point out a lie in my post. Did I state an opinion about the gun argument, which is the primary focus of this thread and is the argument that I stated I wouldn't enter? Or did I merely point out a factual error?
You should have done more research.I was surprised to see Red Florida has a minimum age of 21 to purchase any gun. IMO this makes sense for a bipartisan approval. Trump was in favor of this too. Interesting read how lawmakers are afraid of the NRA
Trump proposed raising age limits for gun buys after the Parkland school shooting
In February 2018, days after a mass shooting in Parkland, Florida, then-President Donald Trump agreed with a specific policy proposal: raising the national minimum age to purchase rifles from 18 to 21.
Trump administration drops age limit proposal for guns after NRA files suit
President previously said the legal age to buy certain guns should be 21, but backed off after NRA filed lawsuit challenging age restrictions
It should all be at 21,” Trump said in late February. “And the NRA will back it.”
But the NRA, which spent more than $30m to support Trump’s campaign, stood firm, filing a federal lawsuit on Friday challenging new age restrictions in Florida.
The White House deputy press secretary Raj Shah told ABC an age-limit rise would be included. But the president then backed off, assigning the question of whether age limits should be raised to a new federal commission on school safety, to be chaired by education secretary Betsy DeVos.
Donald Trump said he would stare down the NRA. Then he blinked.
Less than two weeks ago, President Donald Trump was mocking Republican Sen. Pat Toomey for being "afraid of the NRA" due to the fact that his bipartisan gun control proposal didn't include a provision to raise the the age to certain types of guns from 18 to 21.
www.cnn.com
Then, in late February, Trump had lunch at the White House with several top NRA officials who made a direct pitch to him to leave raising the age limit out of any broader gun control measure in response to Parkland.
And now, this. A proposal that focuses heavily on "hardening" schools and arming teachers. And totally leaves out raising the age limit to buy certain firearms.
Trump caved just like the weak knees Republicans and some Dems. The Republicans should be focusing on both increasing the age to 21 along with background checks. Also eliminate gun show loopholes while hardening all schools with armed police. I think there would be bipartisan support.You should have done more research.
Trump administration drops age limit proposal for guns after NRA files suit
President previously said the legal age to buy certain guns should be 21, but backed off after NRA filed lawsuit challenging age restrictionswww.theguardian.com
It should all be at 21,” Trump said in late February. “And the NRA will back it.”
But the NRA, which spent more than $30m to support Trump’s campaign, stood firm, filing a federal lawsuit on Friday challenging new age restrictions in Florida.
The White House deputy press secretary Raj Shah told ABC an age-limit rise would be included. But the president then backed off, assigning the question of whether age limits should be raised to a new federal commission on school safety, to be chaired by education secretary Betsy DeVos.
Donald Trump said he would stare down the NRA. Then he blinked.
Less than two weeks ago, President Donald Trump was mocking Republican Sen. Pat Toomey for being "afraid of the NRA" due to the fact that his bipartisan gun control proposal didn't include a provision to raise the the age to certain types of guns from 18 to 21.
Then, in late February, Trump had lunch at the White House with several top NRA officials who made a direct pitch to him to leave raising the age limit out of any broader gun control measure in response to Parkland.
And now, this. A proposal that focuses heavily on "hardening" schools and arming teachers. And totally leaves out raising the age limit to buy certain firearms.
By the way it may surprise you Bob like you I’m a gun owner but believe gun owners need to be responsible and not everyone should have that right. I’m also pro environment but not a tree hugger wackjob. We should be using all energy sources with the goal of producing less pollution. I think the majority of Americans are with me on both of these but our politicians L and R refuse to work together on these issues.
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Saw a good quote today. Went something like "It's because we can't legislate murder out of the human heart that civilized societies put controls on the instruments of murder in human hands."
If people want to say these murderers are crazy......from whatever....video games or breakdown of the family.......that's fine. Maybe we should all accept that to one degree or another. But if we acknowledge that, then we have to do everything humanly possible to keep them from getting the guns.
If people want to say these murderers are crazy......from whatever....video games or breakdown of the family.......that's fine. Maybe we should all accept that to one degree or another. But if we acknowledge that, then we have to do everything humanly possible to keep them from getting the guns.
Armed police in the schools won’t do any good if they are too chicken to engage the shooter.
Happy you and your son are doing well. My nephew also has ADD and takes medication. I probably should have left ADD out of my post but there does appear to be a higher degree of violence with teens and young adults who take antidepressants. I always thought it was odd for antidepressants TV commercials to end with the side effect statement of increased suicide with younger people but not with "older" folks. I guess the question is would these people be even worse without the medication?
Suicide And Antidepressants - Increased Anxiety, Related Suicides
FDA black-box warnings & several clinical studies link antidepressants to an increased risk of suicidal thoughts & behaviors, especially among young people.
I think it has more to do with going on and off. My son is also on antidepressants, son and wife both have depression issues and he got lucky and got both of our issues.
If you keep bouncing on and off of them, it seems to unstabilize them more.
Read this and looked it up. Not sure about current rates but this is interesting. When it was written some things have changed as the use of assault weapons have increased and the overall numbers seem to be going up (my guess).
Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say
Schools are safer than they were in the 90s, and school shootings are not more common than they used to be, researchers say.
No, the use of assault weapons has not freaking increased. If anything they have greatly decreased as actual assault weapons are hard to get.
My uncle used to have a fully auto M16 and Uzi, fun to shoot but rarely got them out as they are expensive to shoot. Now those are assault weapons. ARs are not.
