wonder if Gruden lasts the year

[bonefish1]

There are plenty of battles worth fighting in the cancel culture wars. This isn't one of them.

Not choosing this as any single particular battle, but it's more a general commentary on the way some in our society has become so butt hurt by words and how they 'feel'. Even more disturbing is the lengths people will go to try and uncover dirt from 10+ years ago.

 

[bonefish1]

If you send emails like this at work then you deserve to be fired and I hope you are.

yeh, it does take a special stupid to send something like this through a work email. But wonder if you sent a text or email to your best friend, or wife, that was for their eyes only and somehow it were made public?
Or, you were having beers with some buddies, having guy talk and someone was eavesdropping and went public with what was said?

Should you be given a break in that situation?

 

[HUD628]

yeh, it does take a special stupid to send something like this through a work email. But wonder if you sent a text or email to your best friend, or wife, that was for their eyes only and somehow it were made public?
Or, you were having beers with some buddies, having guy talk and someone was eavesdropping and went public with what was said?

Should you be given a break in that situation?

LOL

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

If you send emails like this at work then you deserve to be fired and I hope you are.

Cancel, cancel, cancel...get over that culture! 10 yrs is nothing more than a hit job. Nothing more, nothing less. Someone had it in for him. As for my opinion of Gruden, I could care less as I didn't care for him in Green Bay, Tampa Bay, TV or Raiders I'm tired of your cancel culture. Time to push back.
People have been more alert and wise not to say it. Can we all learn and move on or do we need to gather pitch forks, bats, axes, and torches and do research to stomp, crush and mash the next guy?

 

[HUD628]

Cancel, cancel, cancel...get over that culture! 10 yrs is nothing more than a hit job. Nothing more, nothing less. Someone had it in for him. As for my opinion of Gruden, I could care less as I didn't care for him in Green Bay, Tampa Bay, TV or Raiders I'm tired of your cancel culture. Time to push back.
People have been more alert and wise not to say it. Can we all learn and move on or do we need to gather pitch forks, bats, axes, and torches and do research to stomp, crush and mash the next guy?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If he didn't want to be "cancelled" he could have just not been a POS.

The bigger issue here is why you guys are so upset about a man making tens of millions of dollars having to resign because he was exposed as an asshole. Use of this type of language actually having consequences clearly makes you uncomfortable.

 

[FirstDownB]

There are plenty of battles worth fighting in the cancel culture wars. This isn't one of them.

Several have tried to make this point. None more succinctly than this.
Everything doesn't have to be political. Sometimes people do bad or irresponsible things, and these people need to be called out and held accountable. Everything isn't Covington kids or Duke Lacrosse. This has nothing to do with Trump or Biden or any politician. What Gruden did violates every business code of conduct that I've seen in the last 20 years.

 

[bonefish1]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If he didn't want to be "cancelled" he could have just not been a POS.

The bigger issue here is why you guys are so upset about a man making tens of millions of dollars having to resign because he was exposed as an asshole. Use of this type of language actually having consequences clearly makes you uncomfortable.

Where's the line drawn?
Who's allowed to say what and when?

I'll ask again: is what you say in a private conversation or email protected speech?

Should anyone who ever participated in a "Slave Auction" as a fund raiser have to pay the price for that?
What about someone who made fun of gay people in the past (remember the old Wayan's brothers SNL skit)?
How about Seinfeld? They touched some pretty touchy subjects.
How about Hunter Biden and his proclivity for using the N word?

 

[Gemini95]

Where's the line drawn?
Who's allowed to say what and when?

I'll ask again: is what you say in a private conversation or email protected speech?

Should anyone who ever participated in a "Slave Auction" as a fund raiser have to pay the price for that?
What about someone who made fun of gay people in the past (remember the old Wayan's brothers SNL skit)?
How about Seinfeld? They touched some pretty touchy subjects.
How about Hunter Biden and his proclivity for using the N word?

Gruden wasn't "making fun" or play acting or fundraising. He was being hateful, unprompted, in writing, on company email. Yes his speech is protected from government action. It is not protected from all consequences. I can't believe there is still an attempt to argue first amendment here. And if Hunter Biden actually had a job and not a daddy grift, yes he should be fired from it. But he doesn't, and either way that has nothing to do with Gruden. The things Gruden said cannot be reconciled with his current position attempting to lead and coach people who have commonality to those Gruden hatefully disparaged in the past. It just doesn't work.

 

[FirstDownB]

Where's the line drawn?
Who's allowed to say what and when?

I'll ask again: is what you say in a private conversation or email protected speech?

Should anyone who ever participated in a "Slave Auction" as a fund raiser have to pay the price for that?
What about someone who made fun of gay people in the past (remember the old Wayan's brothers SNL skit)?
How about Seinfeld? They touched some pretty touchy subjects.
How about Hunter Biden and his proclivity for using the N word?

An email to a coworker is not a private conversation. Never has been, never will be. Issuing verbal harassment to coworkers/subordinates is not free speech.

Maybe you missed the code of conduct training at your workplace.

 

[Gemini95]

I didn’t read or hear his comments till after the game. Someone going after Jon and reaching back 10 yrs. That’s a hit job and someone wanted revenge.

Again nobody went searching for it. They were discovered as part of an investigation. If you're going to be mad, which is certainly your right, maybe at least understand why you are mad?

 

[HUD628]

Where's the line drawn?
Who's allowed to say what and when?

I'll ask again: is what you say in a private conversation or email protected speech?

Should anyone who ever participated in a "Slave Auction" as a fund raiser have to pay the price for that?
What about someone who made fun of gay people in the past (remember the old Wayan's brothers SNL skit)?
How about Seinfeld? They touched some pretty touchy subjects.
How about Hunter Biden and his proclivity for using the N word?

You can say whatever, whenever. Anyone can. But WTF is "protected speech?"

I have no clue what a slave auction fundraiser is but I propose prison time for the Wayans brothers, everyone involved in the production of Seinfeld, and Hunter Biden.

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

Where's the line drawn?

Who's allowed to say what and when?

I'll ask again: is what you say in a private conversation or email protected speech?

Should anyone who ever participated in a "Slave Auction" as a fund raiser have to pay the price for that?
What about someone who made fun of gay people in the past (remember the old Wayan's brothers SNL skit)?
How about Seinfeld? They touched some pretty touchy subjects.
How about Hunter Biden and his proclivity for using the N word?

I'd vote for this Joe Biden or do we go back and cancel him too?

Biden in 1993 speech pushing crime bill warned of 'predators on our streets' who were 'beyond the pale' | CNN Politics

Joe Biden in a 1993 speech warned of "predators on our streets" who were "beyond the pale" and said they must be cordoned off from the rest of society because the justice system did not know how to rehabilitate them.

www.cnn.com

 

[DAG10]

It is difficult to defend Gruden, and, I say that as someone that actually met him way more than 10 years ago, and, has met/crossed paths with him several times since.

I don't know how anyone can defend the things that he said, including himself for that matter. He has hurt a lot of people with what has happened, and, let a lot of people down as well.

His career is over, but, he has only himself to blame for that...he is indeed who he is...the things he said were not just stupid...they were very much racist, discriminatory, biased, etc.

Now if this had been a case of someone indeed having a bone to pick and trying to find something and going back 10 years and finding an email with some questionable things...yeah, I would side with those that are making a case that this was a witch hunt of some sort, but, the things that he said then, and, continued to say were more than just some misunderstanding or questionable.

That goes then to the bigger point...as, if he was comfortable enough to say any, much less all, of those things in an email, he absolutely would be/was comfortable saying them otherwise, and, yet, he had a tremendously long career in/around the NFL...all because of having connections to begin with that others do not.

I am as against the witch hunt and cancel culture as anyone, and, hate so many of those types of things, but, I don't think this fits that.

As difficult as it is to understand what he said/did, it is as difficult, if not more so, to understand how he got to where he was at so many different times in his lengthy career in light/despite that.

Society is soft in many ways...people are out to get others, more so now than ever, in many cases, but, I don't feel like that was the case here.

I don't see this as a political matter...a racial matter...I just see it as a right or wrong one, and, Gruden could not have been more wrong.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

It is difficult to defend Gruden, and, I say that as someone that actually met him way more than 10 years ago, and, has met/crossed paths with him several times since.

I don't know how anyone can defend the things that he said, including himself for that matter. He has hurt a lot of people with what has happened, and, let a lot of people down as well.

His career is over, but, he has only himself to blame for that...he is indeed who he is...the things he said were not just stupid...they were very much racist, discriminatory, biased, etc.

Now if this had been a case of someone indeed having a bone to pick and trying to find something and going back 10 years and finding an email with some questionable things...yeah, I would side with those that are making a case that this was a witch hunt of some sort, but, the things that he said then, and, continued to say were more than just some misunderstanding or questionable.

That goes then to the bigger point...as, if he was comfortable enough to say any, much less all, of those things in an email, he absolutely would be/was comfortable saying them otherwise, and, yet, he had a tremendously long career in/around the NFL...all because of having connections to begin with that others do not.

I am as against the witch hunt and cancel culture as anyone, and, hate so many of those types of things, but, I don't think this fits that.

As difficult as it is to understand what he said/did, it is as difficult, if not more so, to understand how he got to where he was at so many different times in his lengthy career in light/despite that.

Society is soft in many ways...people are out to get others, more so now than ever, in many cases, but, I don't feel like that was the case here.

I don't see this as a political matter...a racial matter...I just see it as a right or wrong one, and, Gruden could not have been more wrong.

Well said.

Gruden is free to say what he wants.

Mark Davis is free to pick another coach for his football team.

And - the 32 NFL owners are free to decide that an a-hole like Gruden can’t coach in their league.

Freedom for all.

 

[13thman]

True, he would have been much better off had he just blurted out his racist comments, like the Big Guy does.

Bob Lamey disagrees

 

[PaBoiler78]

Where's the line drawn?
Who's allowed to say what and when?

I'll ask again: is what you say in a private conversation or email protected speech?

Should anyone who ever participated in a "Slave Auction" as a fund raiser have to pay the price for that?
What about someone who made fun of gay people in the past (remember the old Wayan's brothers SNL skit)?
How about Seinfeld? They touched some pretty touchy subjects.
How about Hunter Biden and his proclivity for using the N word?

how about Howard Stern

 

[RDUBoiler]

If we went back ten years, would you have a job?

Yes, because I don't say racist, sexist, and homophobic things, and I definitely wouldn't put them in print on a company email. I wouldn't be dumb enough to share topless photos of female co-workers. But especially not ones who were involved in a sexual harassment lawsuit against the organization I worked for.

 

[arcb102000]

A number of valid points have been made in this thread:

1. Gruden made offensive remarks in his emails to the Washington Redskins.
2. As a private employer the Raiders could choose to fire him or accept his resignation.
3. Freedom of speech does not insulate one from the consequences of that speech.

However, the thing that I believe those who support Gruden object to is the asymmetry of response to Gruden. The NFL has gone "full woke" like many other sports leagues. We have dueling national anthems at football games and messages on the field as well as allowed but selected political commentary on uniforms. As a result, the NFL says Gruden's comments are unacceptable discourse. I think that the probability that he gets fired absent resignation approaches 100% very closely.

Just a few days ago, the NFL announced its lineup for the halftime show at the Super Bowl. It features a number of different rappers and hip-hop entertainers. Looking at the history of these entertainers and the lyrics of their songs demonstrates many prejudices, insulting comments and lyrics as are found in Gruden's emails, but those are OK with the NFL.

It is the stark asymmetry of response that has many people upset.

 

[bonefish1]

how about Howard Stern

I'm a huge Stern fan and listen to him whenever I'm in the car without the wife and kids, but he's probably the worlds biggest hypocrite. But, I do think he gets a pass because people just have come to associate controversy and pushing the limits as part of his schtick. He's essentially demonstrated that he's bullet proof at this point.

 

[bonefish1]

A number of valid points have been made in this thread:

1. Gruden made offensive remarks in his emails to the Washington Redskins.
2. As a private employer the Raiders could choose to fire him or accept his resignation.
3. Freedom of speech does not insulate one from the consequences of that speech.

However, the thing that I believe those who support Gruden object to is the asymmetry of response to Gruden. The NFL has gone "full woke" like many other sports leagues. We have dueling national anthems at football games and messages on the field as well as allowed but selected political commentary on uniforms. As a result, the NFL says Gruden's comments are unacceptable discourse. I think that the probability that he gets fired absent resignation approaches 100% very closely.

Just a few days ago, the NFL announced its lineup for the halftime show at the Super Bowl. It features a number of different rappers and hip-hop entertainers. Looking at the history of these entertainers and the lyrics of their songs demonstrates many prejudices, insulting comments and lyrics as are found in Gruden's emails, but those are OK with the NFL.

It is the stark asymmetry of response that has many people upset.

Damn good post. And you're right, while not trying to make this political while making it somewhat political, there's definitely a double standard on what is considered offensive, fireable, etc. The "woke" agenda has created more division that unification, and I have a real problem when a player can put one social agenda label on their uniform but not another, even though people on both sides of the spectrum find each offensive.

 

[Riveting]

Bob Lamey disagrees

What do you expect from a yankees fan...

 

[HUD628]

Damn good post. And you're right, while not trying to make this political while making it somewhat political, there's definitely a double standard on what is considered offensive, fireable, etc. The "woke" agenda has created more division that unification, and I have a real problem when a player can put one social agenda label on their uniform but not another, even though people on both sides of the spectrum find each offensive.

Genuinely curious what social agenda label you're upset isn't allowed on NFL uniforms

 

[bonefish1]

Genuinely curious what social agenda label you're upset isn't allowed on NFL uniforms

Can an NFL player put a "Back the Blue" or "All Lives Matter" on their helmet?

N.F.L. Will Allow Six Social Justice Messages on Players’ Helmets (Published 2021)

The decals, with messages such as “Stop Hate” and “Black Lives Matter,” are part of the league’s efforts to show solidarity with players who have protested against racism and police brutality.

www.nytimes.com

This is wokism to the Nth degree.

 

[HUD628]

Can an NFL player put a "Back the Blue" or "All Lives Matter" on their helmet?

N.F.L. Will Allow Six Social Justice Messages on Players’ Helmets (Published 2021)

The decals, with messages such as “Stop Hate” and “Black Lives Matter,” are part of the league’s efforts to show solidarity with players who have protested against racism and police brutality.

www.nytimes.com

This is wokism to the Nth degree.

No, they can't, because those are stupid phrases that exist only as opposition to the social justice messages that are allowed.

 

[Level 42]

those are stupid phrases

So are the ones that are 'allowed'. You just made his point for him, congrats.

 

[bonefish1]

No, they can't, because those are stupid phrases that exist only as opposition to the social justice messages that are allowed.

Wow....just wow. The lefty lib mind is truly a wonder.

So, showing support for your law enforcement officers is stupid, but putting the name of George Floyd, a violent, convicted, multiple time felon, drug addict is appropriate?

 

[FirstDownB]

No, they can't, because those are stupid phrases that exist only as opposition to the social justice messages that are allowed.

In other words, the left has a patent on social justice.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

No, they can't, because those are stupid phrases that exist only as opposition to the social justice messages that are allowed.

That’s your best one yet lol

 

[arcb102000]

"All Lives Matter!" is as un-racist as one can get. It states that all lives are of equal value. How that is antithetical to any concept of social justice is beyond me. That statement is as American as one can get.

 

[purdueplayer]

It’s pretty common sense as a business to not offend the people you want to consume your product.

 

[SKYDOG]

It’s pretty common sense as a business to not offend the people you want to consume your product.

The NFL has gone to great lengths to do just that.

 

[RDUBoiler]

The ten years claim needs to be clarified. These aren't just comments he made ten years ago. They are comments he made over the course of ten years and as recently as 2018.

One dumb comment is forgivable. Years of dumb comments in emails is offensive.

I see a lot of people here complaining about the so-called "woke agenda." But what's being called for here is simply to be treated as equally human, not to be stereotyped or spoken of in stereotypical ways. Gruden repeatedly violated that.

 

[MLB007]

Cancel, cancel, cancel...get over that culture! 10 yrs is nothing more than a hit job. Nothing more, nothing less. Someone had it in for him. As for my opinion of Gruden, I could care less as I didn't care for him in Green Bay, Tampa Bay, TV or Raiders I'm tired of your cancel culture. Time to push back.
People have been more alert and wise not to say it. Can we all learn and move on or do we need to gather pitch forks, bats, axes, and torches and do research to stomp, crush and mash the next guy?

So your point is that you're tired of scumbags having to answer for the sleazy things they've done in the past.??
Welcome to the republican party!

 

[New Pal Boiler]

No, they can't, because those are stupid phrases that exist only as opposition to the social justice messages that are allowed.

LOL. Please tell me you didn’t graduate from Purdue with this towering intellect.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

The ten years claim needs to be clarified. These aren't just comments he made ten years ago. They are comments he made over the course of ten years and as recently as 2018.

One dumb comment is forgivable. Years of dumb comments in emails is offensive.

I see a lot of people here complaining about the so-called "woke agenda." But what's being called for here is simply to be treated as equally human, not to be stereotyped or spoken of in stereotypical ways. Gruden repeatedly violated that.

I’m not upset Gruden is gone. But out of 650,000 emails, are you telling me the only offensive ones happen to be the ones from the guy calling Goodell a “p***y”?

 

[bonefish1]

You can say whatever, whenever. Anyone can. But WTF is "protected speech?"

I have no clue what a slave auction fundraiser is but I propose prison time for the Wayans brothers, everyone involved in the production of Seinfeld, and Hunter Biden.

When I refer to protected speech, I'm not referring to protection in the legal sense, not a 'free speech', First amendment issue and I'm not referring to something you do while on the company email or company property.

What I'm referring to is whether you're in your car, in your house, in the locker room of your members-only golf club, in a private conversation with your spouse or best friend, and you were to say something to that person that you would never say in public or at work, if that conversation were to somehow get out and be made public, should it be protected or is everything you say, regardless of place or context, up for public scrutiny?

 

[bonefish1]

The ten years claim needs to be clarified. These aren't just comments he made ten years ago. They are comments he made over the course of ten years and as recently as 2018.

One dumb comment is forgivable. Years of dumb comments in emails is offensive.

I see a lot of people here complaining about the so-called "woke agenda." But what's being called for here is simply to be treated as equally human, not to be stereotyped or spoken of in stereotypical ways. Gruden repeatedly violated that.

Is there a difference in word and deed?

While Gruden may have sent things over email, was this also reflected in his hiring, promoting, giving players playing time, etc as a football coach?

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

I’m not upset Gruden is gone. But out of 650,000 emails, are you telling me the only offensive ones happen to be the ones from the guy calling Goodell a “p***y”?

This...witch hunt.

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

So your point is that you're tired of scumbags having to answer for the sleazy things they've done in the past.??
Welcome to the republican party!

The Dems have an equally long list of members that are embarrassed to be on it. For starters, ask Bill Clinton, he may share it with you.

 

[DAG10]

I’m not upset Gruden is gone. But out of 650,000 emails, are you telling me the only offensive ones happen to be the ones from the guy calling Goodell a “p***y”?

Never mind the genuine and literal obvious here in that this was/is an investigation of the WFT...an organization with SO many problems, and, that have been happening for years...and, the only individual punished, fired or to have repercussions of any sort was the HC of the Las Vegas Raiders?