What's the problem? Is it the OC? Are the WR not seeing opportunity? Something is happening we don't know about. - Does anyone inside the program know?
With all the WR departures I'm wondering...
- Thread starter pulax78
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Sheffield was a grad transfer. I dont really expect anyone who has graduated to stay.
Not sure if Yaseen and/or Rice graduated, but neither have been healthy enough to provide really anything significant.
Steptoe got switched over to CB. No surprise he left given we have some good talent coming in at CB.
Burks definitively stings imo. He took a major step forward and he's probably someone who could potentially get himself drafted. Hate to see guys come along just to bolt. That being said, I dont think he's irreplaceable. Talk on here was it was NIL related. I dont know, could be scheme. Seems risky to me if he's leaving due to NIL. With 1 year left, I think he would be more focused on the NFL in which it seems he would be our obvious #1 going into the season. Be interesting to see where he ends up and how he's utilized. May be a tough lesson in that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
I was wondering too but the other day I noticed that even nd has lost 4 wr's and they may play their bowl game w/ only 4 scholarship wr's on the roster, so it happens
I have to believe when your top 5 receivers all decided to leave there is a problem that nobody wants to air publicly! I’m not sure if it’s the qb, the receivers coach or the offense. I don’t believe all these receivers are leaving just because we had a losing season. And it’s definitely not about future playing time.
I made the statement that when Sheffield announced his intentions to transfer before the biggest game of our season That he did so for a reason! And there was a problem somebody is trying to hide!
It’s one thing for a backup to leave, but not your entire receiving corps. And it’s not like any of these players are being recruited to play for a better school. They just want out and don’t really care where they will end up.
To me this points a huge finger at either the QB or the coaching staff! It’s one thing if a player is leaving for a huge NIL payout. But none of these players is going to receive any more NIL money than they are currently receiving.
I also find it interesting that when the question of is there a problem is raised, There is a dead silence to the question. It’s almost as if there is a solidarity among the receivers.
Is Purdue converting to the wishbone offense next year?
I made the statement that when Sheffield announced his intentions to transfer before the biggest game of our season That he did so for a reason! And there was a problem somebody is trying to hide!
It’s one thing for a backup to leave, but not your entire receiving corps. And it’s not like any of these players are being recruited to play for a better school. They just want out and don’t really care where they will end up.
To me this points a huge finger at either the QB or the coaching staff! It’s one thing if a player is leaving for a huge NIL payout. But none of these players is going to receive any more NIL money than they are currently receiving.
I also find it interesting that when the question of is there a problem is raised, There is a dead silence to the question. It’s almost as if there is a solidarity among the receivers.
Is Purdue converting to the wishbone offense next year?
I don't really see a problem, only Burks is a B1G caliber player, or healthy enough to show it. And in this environment, every team is going to lose guys who you would think stay.
the problem as I see it is that it appears as if our entire receiver corp left. and they didn't leave to get a better NIL offer. they didn't leave because they were not going to get playing time. they just all left. it's not a matter of being able to replace them. it's a matter of why did they all leave?
I doubt their departures will affect our record next year. I doubt any of them will sign with any powerhouse team. I doubt any of them will make any type of an impact next year. I doubt they left because Walters encouraged them to leave via "the talk". but you have to wonder why they all left. it's as if they found a lifeboat and all jumped in before the titanic hit the iceberg.
If you were a WR here would you want to play under Harrell? He was absolutely terrible calling the plays.
This is kinda where I am at. We can turn this around with 2-3 good wr transfers but I honestly don’t see us getting that. These guys committed to a team that had one of the best passing offenses in the Big and we for sure don’t look like that now. Hard to argue that there isn’t some sort of issue with this many leaving no matter what you thought of their talent level.
I see a problem. The story this year was that we were outmanned at nearly every position. Next season we'll start with few players with any knowledge of the current system. It is highly unlikely that we will add high quality players in sufficient quantities to be an upgrade. So after a first season that was mediocre at best, the Walter's regimes second season will feature more of the same inexperience and quality if players. The portal will doom 90% of programs to ongoing mediocrity going forward. Building continuity will be a thing of the past.
The problem may be the offense. As si boiler points out, it’s going to be hard for Walters to develop any type of continuity with the entire receiver corp leaving.
As someone pointed out mc Culley was rumored to be visiting. And then it said he denied it, so I’m not sure where we stand with him.
As Beorik pointed out, maybe it’s our offense that has turned our receivers away.
My concern is if our own receivers don’t like our offense and don’t want to stay, how easy is it going to be to attract other receivers. Via the portal? The guys who left were basically all 4 star receivers. If they don’t like it here, what caliber /talent of receiver would actually want to come here?
It’s one thing to find 1 wr via the portal. But Walters is now faced with finding 4-5 receivers!
As someone pointed out mc Culley was rumored to be visiting. And then it said he denied it, so I’m not sure where we stand with him.
As Beorik pointed out, maybe it’s our offense that has turned our receivers away.
My concern is if our own receivers don’t like our offense and don’t want to stay, how easy is it going to be to attract other receivers. Via the portal? The guys who left were basically all 4 star receivers. If they don’t like it here, what caliber /talent of receiver would actually want to come here?
It’s one thing to find 1 wr via the portal. But Walters is now faced with finding 4-5 receivers!
Yep. Getting 4-5 wrs will be challenging. I am worried now that McCulley seems to have shot down the rumors. Walters seems to be able to bring in talent, at least this class seems to say do, so I am hoping it translates to the portal. As you say though, even with talent, losing all those guys who have been here for years hurts if for no other reason than leadership and continuity in the locker room.
Burks leaving hurts for sure. It seems he may have felt like he deserved more NIL from Purdue but didn't get it. It's not playing time or targets because he essentially the lions share.
Yaseen and Rice were always injured. Always. And even when healthy weren't exactly the game breakers we saw previously from Bell, Wright, Jones, and Moore.
Steptoe was converted to CB so there's that. Maybe he wants to play WR somewhere else.
But personally, I would prioritize the OL and DL more than WR. Keeping Gus was huge. Probably was the reason Kalt left - to play Center somewhere.
For everyone complaining about playcalling - I agree it has been atrocious at times. But to be honest, if your OL can't get a 1 yard push at the 6 inch line, there's only so many plays available to you because your OL hold you back too much.
Long story short... I don't worry about the WR. They're a dime a dozen. What we really nugliest are the cons fed big uglies up front ready willing and able to knock some heads.
Yaseen and Rice were always injured. Always. And even when healthy weren't exactly the game breakers we saw previously from Bell, Wright, Jones, and Moore.
Steptoe was converted to CB so there's that. Maybe he wants to play WR somewhere else.
But personally, I would prioritize the OL and DL more than WR. Keeping Gus was huge. Probably was the reason Kalt left - to play Center somewhere.
For everyone complaining about playcalling - I agree it has been atrocious at times. But to be honest, if your OL can't get a 1 yard push at the 6 inch line, there's only so many plays available to you because your OL hold you back too much.
Long story short... I don't worry about the WR. They're a dime a dozen. What we really nugliest are the cons fed big uglies up front ready willing and able to knock some heads.
So far, Kpaka is the only player to enter the portal and get a P5 offer (dont know about Burks yet). How is losing G5 and lower players dooming our program?
Depth IMO.
Putting a lot of pressure on Walters and Harrell to have to grab 2-3 P5 level contributors with no NIl money.
Not looking great
NIL money is in decent shape. But how is free G5 depth hard to replace?
Sure continuity is useful, but there were a LOT of guys on this roster who shouldn't have been. There will always be some, but when they take up most of the two deeps it's an issue.
Only a fraction of players in the portal even find a new home. Much less ones who get NIL.
Finding depth won't be a problem.
Finding elite starters will be.
Mediocre? Dude that’s like calling Holly Rowe mediocre. This year was abysmal that was only outdone by Hazell.
Everyone needs to quit overthinking this. We are losing WR because Harrell’s offense is a $#!t show. This Walters hire will end badly and reminds me of the RichRod hire at Michigan. Bobo tried hiring a coach that was 180 degrees from what Purdue’s identity has been for the last 20 years and it will not end well.
Harrell runs an Air Raid offense. Should be great for WRs. What I have seen is guys that can't run routes and can't shake coverage. For as fast as Burkes was supposed to be, he rarely got open. Was he dogging it or did he just not know how to run a route?
He's a sprinter. Not a route runner. He just runs as fast as he can. Most of the time he's open downfield was because his defender fell over.
For comparison. David Bell was route runner. Not a sprinter. He ran a 4.65 at the combine. But he knew how to beat his man and get open.
I miss coach Shep.
McCulley has a visit set to Kentucky next weekend and Yaseen has offers from Minn, So Car and some others so far
Pff last year vs this year
Yaseen 53.2 - 66.8 +13.6
Burks 51.4 - 64.7 +13.4
Sheffield 59.5 - 62.4 +2.9
Rice 61.2 - 59.8 -1.4
So that up there is a fact. All three starters played better than last year. Two significantly better.
This idea that the “offense is terrible compared to last year and I’m leaving” is comical nonsense. The offense was what it was in 2022 cause of Oconnell, Mockobee, Jones and Durham. Not because of any of these four.
Sheffield - I remember watching him in 2021 and saying “well he’s splitting time with anthrop. He will take a next step when anthrop leaves.” He never did. He was benched for Sowinski before the bucket game. He had a total of 480 yards. Unless you’re Jared sparks or amad Anderson, those numbers don’t hurt anyone’s feelings
Yaseen - just couldn’t stay healthy. If he can, and someone takes a flyer and gets a 12-13 game season out of him.. that will be a victory for a guy they didn’t need to pay.
Burks - because he was the only productive receiver (Stayed healthy and got into the 600 yard range) who didn’t get hurt, his play warrants money. He wanted more than Scourton, Jenkins and Hartwig combined. They aren’t giving it to him. I’d rather see them get 3 OL, a receiver and a MLB than retain Deion Burks and his 600 yards.
Yaseen 53.2 - 66.8 +13.6
Burks 51.4 - 64.7 +13.4
Sheffield 59.5 - 62.4 +2.9
Rice 61.2 - 59.8 -1.4
So that up there is a fact. All three starters played better than last year. Two significantly better.
This idea that the “offense is terrible compared to last year and I’m leaving” is comical nonsense. The offense was what it was in 2022 cause of Oconnell, Mockobee, Jones and Durham. Not because of any of these four.
Sheffield - I remember watching him in 2021 and saying “well he’s splitting time with anthrop. He will take a next step when anthrop leaves.” He never did. He was benched for Sowinski before the bucket game. He had a total of 480 yards. Unless you’re Jared sparks or amad Anderson, those numbers don’t hurt anyone’s feelings
Yaseen - just couldn’t stay healthy. If he can, and someone takes a flyer and gets a 12-13 game season out of him.. that will be a victory for a guy they didn’t need to pay.
Burks - because he was the only productive receiver (Stayed healthy and got into the 600 yard range) who didn’t get hurt, his play warrants money. He wanted more than Scourton, Jenkins and Hartwig combined. They aren’t giving it to him. I’d rather see them get 3 OL, a receiver and a MLB than retain Deion Burks and his 600 yards.
I don't see any of these players individually as any great loss.
My concern is how many of them all decided to leave at once. You would be led to believe once one left, 1-2 would see they have a chance to start and would stay.
My other concern is timing. it's doubtful any high school receiver recruit will arrive before Summer and will miss Spring practice. I'm unsure as to when to expect a portal transfer to arrive. if they are not signed before the start of next semester, they will also miss Spring practice.
Walters is going to have a very hard time bringing in quality replacements in a timely manner. McCulley was rumored to be interested, and had supposedly planned a visit. But the current rumor is that was a false rumor and he has no interest. The latest rumor about him having zero interest came after 2 more receivers left.
I find it very odd that our Offensive Coord was known for his air raid offense, yet that was not close to what he ran this year. it also seemed very odd that QB Card was their big portal signing last year at QB. Card is a running, option style QB. he's not a pro drop back passer type of QB. he definitely didn't see to be the right style of QB to run an air raid offense. Why would a pass happy coordinator even recruit an option style QB? Was it because all the other Qbs in the portal turned Walters down, and he felt he needed to make a splash in recruiting news by signing a QB from Texas? Nothing against Card, but he sure doesn't seem to fit the offense many fans and analysts thought Purdue would be running this year. and I don't see with Card, that offense changing next year.
the running oriented option style offense with Card at the helm is probably why all our receivers left. But in saying that, If I'm an elite receiver, I wouldn't want to be part of a running offense unless it's Notre Dame or some top 10 team that will go to a new years Day bowl game, and provide an opportunity for exposure.
While none of the receivers that left were all american candidates, or made a huge impact, I doubt Walters told them or suggested to them that they should leave. he may have said, this is the offense we're going to run next year, and their reply was Ci Ci Ci you later. I'm outta here.
My concern is how many of them all decided to leave at once. You would be led to believe once one left, 1-2 would see they have a chance to start and would stay.
My other concern is timing. it's doubtful any high school receiver recruit will arrive before Summer and will miss Spring practice. I'm unsure as to when to expect a portal transfer to arrive. if they are not signed before the start of next semester, they will also miss Spring practice.
Walters is going to have a very hard time bringing in quality replacements in a timely manner. McCulley was rumored to be interested, and had supposedly planned a visit. But the current rumor is that was a false rumor and he has no interest. The latest rumor about him having zero interest came after 2 more receivers left.
I find it very odd that our Offensive Coord was known for his air raid offense, yet that was not close to what he ran this year. it also seemed very odd that QB Card was their big portal signing last year at QB. Card is a running, option style QB. he's not a pro drop back passer type of QB. he definitely didn't see to be the right style of QB to run an air raid offense. Why would a pass happy coordinator even recruit an option style QB? Was it because all the other Qbs in the portal turned Walters down, and he felt he needed to make a splash in recruiting news by signing a QB from Texas? Nothing against Card, but he sure doesn't seem to fit the offense many fans and analysts thought Purdue would be running this year. and I don't see with Card, that offense changing next year.
the running oriented option style offense with Card at the helm is probably why all our receivers left. But in saying that, If I'm an elite receiver, I wouldn't want to be part of a running offense unless it's Notre Dame or some top 10 team that will go to a new years Day bowl game, and provide an opportunity for exposure.
While none of the receivers that left were all american candidates, or made a huge impact, I doubt Walters told them or suggested to them that they should leave. he may have said, this is the offense we're going to run next year, and their reply was Ci Ci Ci you later. I'm outta here.
Here, let me chart out the pff for our best receivers in the pff era so you can see where these guys stack up
Rondale Moore 2018 88.8
David bell 2021 87.5
Charlie Jones 2022 81.6
Milton Wright 2021 74.9
Anthony mahoungou 2017 70.1
Milton Wright 2020 67.1
Abdur-Rahmaan Yaseen 66.8
Jackson Anthrop 2021 66.7
Danny anthrop 2016 66.6
Terry Wright 2018 65.3
Deion Burks 64.7
Dominique young 2016 64.5
Isaac Zico 2018 64.2
Deangelo Yancey 2016 64.1
Tyrone Tracy 2022 63.5
TJ Sheffield 62.4
Can you see? These guys, all of whom Harrell got to perform better than last year (FAR better in the case of Yaseen and Burks) were all worse than a raw Milton Wright and in the range of guys like the anthrops, Terry Wright, Isaac Zico and hazell guys.
BFD
I think you e missed the boat and point here. Guys SHOULD perform better when they get starters reps.
They they didn’t is on Walters and Harrell IMo.
Also if Moore’s 2018 was only an 88, the scale is off a whole 10 points in general.
I'm not a fan of pff but that's not how it works. Your score doesn't go up just because you get starter reps and starter volume. It's what you do with the reps that makes your score go up.
The problem I have with it is that it's too subjective. How can 600 different "analysts" look at thousands of snaps a week and look at 22 players at the same time equally, uniformly, and without bias?
Sheffield started last year. Burks got 321 reps in 2022. That’s more than enough to show your value. He was terrible. Because Garrick McGee is garbage
Mahoungou in 2017 was a 70. None of these guys, all improved from last year, was even that good.
In pff in general, 80+ is great, 70 is very good, 60 is okay and players grading in the 50s exceedingly get you beat
Pff isn’t perfect. It’s better than someone named Ron with a clear bias saying that they thought player X was dope last year
Burke was open a lot more than you give him credit for Card seemed to ignore him at times.
I disagree. Getting back to the oc....we needed to find ways to get our playmakers the ball more imo. Burk and the two tailback in open space. Screens, motion, wheel routes. That being said our oline was patchwork and it's difficult to have a consistent anything on offense if you can't keep 3 and 4 man fronts from disrupting plays in the backfield.
Or just maybe they were just lazy and weren't buying into the program. Our receivers a good majority of time were not getting separation...and just maybe weren't coachable...who really knows...
Anyone who I’m supposed to worry about losing better be able to outperform anthony mahoungou. These guys were barely outperforming Jared Sparks. And that’s after Harrell got here. Before, with brohm and 300+ snaps, here is Deion Burks
Jared Sparks 2019 - 63.4
Gregory Phillips - 60.2
Amad Anderson 2019 - 56.2
Jarrett Burgess 2018 - 54.3
Deion Burks 2022 - 51.4
It is in fact hard to even find receivers who were worse than Burks in 2022 per pff.
Here is the full list in the brohm era and 1 year of walters
2017 - Corey Holmes 49.3 (I legitimately don’t know who this is)
2018 - no one
2019 - no one
2020 - Jackson anthrop 51.2
Amad anderson 49.3
Abdur-Rahmann Yaseen 46.1
2021 - Collin Sullivan 47.9
2022 - NO ONE! BURKS WAS THE LOWEST Rated receiver on the team under the Dalai Brohma
2023 - Elijah Canion 51.3
So, six individual seasons in 7 years. It’s remarkable to me that people want to blame this staff for Burks wanting market value (that IMO they shouldn’t pay) while not crediting this staff at all for Burks improvement.
By the way .. on to pboilers theory. Burks just played bad because he didn’t get snaps.
Here are those 7 players including Burks by snap
Deion Burks 2022 - 321
Amad anderson 2020 - 165
Collin Sullivan 2021 - 85
Jackson anthrop 2020 - 61
Corey Holmes 2017 - 56
Elijah Canion 2023 - 19
ARY 2020 - 6
How does my favorite receiver of all, Broc Thompson, rate. If the others played with half as much guts, they'd also have done well. Too bad he never recovered after that performance with two broken legs!!!!
I haven’t seen any P5 offers to the WRs leaving other than Yaseen which is very surprising with how little he’s played due to injuries…the dude could never stay healthy just like Rice! I’m sure the offers will come in for Burks but he had 1 above average season and wants to jump ship for greener pastures. Sucks to see guys leave but there is above average talent flooding the portal everyday so gotta have some faith with Coach Walters recruiting.
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