Was our best defense under brohm 2017, and will it always be?

[BCfanatic2020]

I know George is legit. I’m a huge fan.

but it seems like our defensive line was very stout brohm’s first year. And maybe that was one of the few right things that hazell did?

You Weren’t gonna push gelen robinson around the way that Minnesota has moved our DL like they aren’t even there

sometimes a new coach brings A to the table and benefits from B being left behind by the previous coach. And everyone assumes “oh coach number 2 can bring B to the table” and he can’t.

is that the case here? They brought in Diaco. Now, the 3-4 is supposed to be good because it’s hard to run on it. You don’t get nearly as much pass rush from the DL (a waste of George). But the DL is also getting pushed back like nobody’s business against Minnesota. This is what you’re supposed to GAIN in exchange for what you sacrifice.

I like brohm. I don’t know what we do if we turn on brohm. He’s our frost. As much as he’s better than frost by a ton BUT as much as he fails at times, if not brohm THEN WHO? I’m aware of that.

I just think it’s legit to wonder .. will we ever be as good as we were in 2017 on defense again under brohm

 

[FirstDownB]

By my count there are 5 DL on the roster who had multiple P5 offers. But every single one of them is a freshman or sophomore. GK is the only one who came ready to play out-of-the-box.
Karlaftis
Hunter
Faucheux
Hudgins
Austin

Prior to this group, the last DL recruit with multiple P5 offers was Gelen in 2014. That's a lot of MAC level recruits in between.
What we're seeing today is lack of experienced, talented, grown-ass dudes from the 2016 and 2017 classes (and 2018 to some extent), and yes, GK being the only 'instant impact' guy from the newer crop.

That 2017 team sort of had the stars aligned with a bunch of seniors and an early impact sophomore in Neal. I say stars aligned, because the year preceding and the year after looked absolutely nothing like 2017. They also rode guys like Neal into the ground with 70 snaps a game, but somehow avoided guys missing many games to injury.
This staff has been rotating a lot of guys, and I believe long term that will pay off. But when Karlaftis, Neal, Watt, and Mitchell come off the field, the line gets really young and not very physical. I am hopeful that the development and strength training is in place at the position coach level to turn the guys listed above into monsters the next couple years, but I am also skeptical in what seems like a constant struggle for Purdue 4* recruits to live up to their rankings. Hopefully Coach Jamison is an upgrade over Johnson because development of that line is going to fall on his shoulders.

 

[Beorik]

By my count there are 5 DL on the roster who had multiple P5 offers. But every single one of them is a freshman or sophomore. GK is the only one who came ready to play out-of-the-box.
Karlaftis
Hunter
Faucheux
Hudgins
Austin

Prior to this group, the last DL recruit with multiple P5 offers was Gelen in 2014. That's a lot of MAC level recruits in between.
What we're seeing today is lack of experienced, talented, grown-ass dudes from the 2016 and 2017 classes (and 2018 to some extent), and yes, GK being the only 'instant impact' guy from the newer crop.

That 2017 team sort of had the stars aligned with a bunch of seniors and an early impact sophomore in Neal. I say stars aligned, because the year preceding and the year after looked absolutely nothing like 2017. They also rode guys like Neal into the ground with 70 snaps a game, but somehow avoided guys missing many games to injury.
This staff has been rotating a lot of guys, and I believe long term that will pay off. But when Karlaftis, Neal, Watt, and Mitchell come off the field, the line gets really young and not very physical. I am hopeful that the development and strength training is in place at the position coach level to turn the guys listed above into monsters the next couple years, but I am also skeptical in what seems like a constant struggle for Purdue 4* recruits to live up to their rankings. Hopefully Coach Jamison is an upgrade over Johnson because development of that line is going to fall on his shoulders.

I think because of Brohms success early everyone forgets how bad our recruiting was for eveyone Junior and up this year. Because we have Neal and Barnes they think everything is fine. Barnes was a 2 star 77 rated recruit and Neal was 3 star 81. They were diamonds in the rough for sure.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

By my count there are 5 DL on the roster who had multiple P5 offers. But every single one of them is a freshman or sophomore. GK is the only one who came ready to play out-of-the-box.
Karlaftis
Hunter
Faucheux
Hudgins
Austin

Prior to this group, the last DL recruit with multiple P5 offers was Gelen in 2014. That's a lot of MAC level recruits in between.
What we're seeing today is lack of experienced, talented, grown-ass dudes from the 2016 and 2017 classes (and 2018 to some extent), and yes, GK being the only 'instant impact' guy from the newer crop.

That 2017 team sort of had the stars aligned with a bunch of seniors and an early impact sophomore in Neal. I say stars aligned, because the year preceding and the year after looked absolutely nothing like 2017. They also rode guys like Neal into the ground with 70 snaps a game, but somehow avoided guys missing many games to injury.
This staff has been rotating a lot of guys, and I believe long term that will pay off. But when Karlaftis, Neal, Watt, and Mitchell come off the field, the line gets really young and not very physical. I am hopeful that the development and strength training is in place at the position coach level to turn the guys listed above into monsters the next couple years, but I am also skeptical in what seems like a constant struggle for Purdue 4* recruits to live up to their rankings. Hopefully Coach Jamison is an upgrade over Johnson because development of that line is going to fall on his shoulders.

I just hope we can get back to having our DL not get pushed around by the bigger OLs a la 2017. Definitely not saying hazell was good ...

I will say this. When you’re trying to be tressel At Ohio state in west Lafayette, you are going to produce a lot of negative results in different aspects of your team. It’s just a terrible approach. However, maybe you produce one or two good things that one wouldn’t normally see in west Lafayette.. and I think a particularly stout 2017 defense is one of those few things

 

[IUhaterade]

I just hope we can get back to having our DL not get pushed around by the bigger OLs a la 2017. Definitely not saying hazell was good ...

I will say this. When you’re trying to be tressel At Ohio state in west Lafayette, you are going to produce a lot of negative results in different aspects of your team. It’s just a terrible approach. However, maybe you produce one or two good things that one wouldn’t normally see in west Lafayette.. and I think a particularly stout 2017 defense is one of those few things

Just had to respond to this because I couldn’t find a single thing that I disagree with about it. Props

 

[FirstDownB]

I just hope we can get back to having our DL not get pushed around by the bigger OLs a la 2017. Definitely not saying hazell was good ...

I will say this. When you’re trying to be tressel At Ohio state in west Lafayette, you are going to produce a lot of negative results in different aspects of your team. It’s just a terrible approach. However, maybe you produce one or two good things that one wouldn’t normally see in west Lafayette.. and I think a particularly stout 2017 defense is one of those few things

Maybe. Or put it in the "even a blind squirrel finds a nut" file.

 

[purduepat1969]

By my count there are 5 DL on the roster who had multiple P5 offers. But every single one of them is a freshman or sophomore. GK is the only one who came ready to play out-of-the-box.
Karlaftis
Hunter
Faucheux
Hudgins
Austin

Prior to this group, the last DL recruit with multiple P5 offers was Gelen in 2014. That's a lot of MAC level recruits in between.
What we're seeing today is lack of experienced, talented, grown-ass dudes from the 2016 and 2017 classes (and 2018 to some extent), and yes, GK being the only 'instant impact' guy from the newer crop.

That 2017 team sort of had the stars aligned with a bunch of seniors and an early impact sophomore in Neal. I say stars aligned, because the year preceding and the year after looked absolutely nothing like 2017. They also rode guys like Neal into the ground with 70 snaps a game, but somehow avoided guys missing many games to injury.
This staff has been rotating a lot of guys, and I believe long term that will pay off. But when Karlaftis, Neal, Watt, and Mitchell come off the field, the line gets really young and not very physical. I am hopeful that the development and strength training is in place at the position coach level to turn the guys listed above into monsters the next couple years, but I am also skeptical in what seems like a constant struggle for Purdue 4* recruits to live up to their rankings. Hopefully Coach Jamison is an upgrade over Johnson because development of that line is going to fall on his shoulders.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. But even with Karlaftis, Neal, Watt, and Mitchell in the game for the Iowa and Illinois game, this defensive line got pushed around early in the game. It wasn't a depth issue at that point.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Just had to respond to this because I couldn’t find a single thing that I disagree with about it. Props

I had malnatis this weekend .. it was great lol

 

[HarrysPostGame13]

I had malnatis this weekend .. it was great lol

Had Dimo’s. It was decent

 

[Level 42]

I think trying to judge this defense based on the screwy season is a bit premature. For the longest time we were under the impression there wasn't even going to be a season so how much practice did they even do? I ask that because I don't know.

Plus you aren't going to turn around any of the Holisms this team had over night. As long as there are improvements in any area this season then we are headed on the right course.

Now if things are still bad next year, assuming we have a more normal season, then there is cause for concern. This season though? It's a 'throw away' for me because it's just so jacked up.

 

[IUhaterade]

I had malnatis this weekend .. it was great lol

I tried their “crustless pizza” recently where they use sausage as the base.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I tried their “crustless pizza” recently where they use sausage as the base.

that seems like a lot lol

I also had freddy’s margarita in Cicero.. so good.

I highly recommend checking it out the next time you go through. It looks like satriales from the sopranos

 

[KentuckyBoiler]

I think we are raw in the LB position still. I did not say untalented. Again, you have a lot of youth, and those guys still need to add size.

I think we are also missing another bookend to help George out, because when we do a 3-4; teams just pick us apart. They can double team on George's side of the ball, and get absolutely no pressure on the other side.

With the 2017 team, our LBs were talented. You have 2 guys playing NFL right now, Bailey and Bentley. The book is still be written with our current LBs, but obviously Mitchell has shown tremendous talent so far, but he was hurt last game. I am not sure George is 100% either. With our 2 best defensive players out or hurting, our defense gets exposed pretty quickly.

 

[FirstDownB]

I don't disagree with what you're saying. But even with Karlaftis, Neal, Watt, and Mitchell in the game for the Iowa and Illinois game, this defensive line got pushed around early in the game. It wasn't a depth issue at that point.

Some of it is most definitely scheme, bend but don't break. I agree it is frustrating to watch. I'm just saying the talent in the pipeline should eventually surpass the 2017 team when they are ready for the field. If not, we've got serious developmental problems.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I think we are raw in the LB position still. I did not say untalented. Again, you have a lot of youth, and those guys still need to add size.

I think we are also missing another bookend to help George out, because when we do a 3-4; teams just pick us apart. They can double team on George's side of the ball, and get absolutely no pressure on the other side.

With the 2017 team, our LBs were talented. You have 2 guys playing NFL right now, Bailey and Bentley. The book is still be written with our current LBs, but obviously Mitchell has shown tremendous talent so far, but he was hurt last game. I am not sure George is 100% either. With our 2 best defensive players out or hurting, our defense gets exposed pretty quickly.

I think your first paragraph is true of graham, but by no means is Alexander as good as Bailey Bentley or McCollum

I’ve seen khali Saunders in there here and there ... wouldn’t be surprised to see he, Alexander and graham be a solid group next year but still nowhere near 17.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I think we are raw in the LB position still. I did not say untalented. Again, you have a lot of youth, and those guys still need to add size.

I think we are also missing another bookend to help George out, because when we do a 3-4; teams just pick us apart. They can double team on George's side of the ball, and get absolutely no pressure on the other side.

With the 2017 team, our LBs were talented. You have 2 guys playing NFL right now, Bailey and Bentley. The book is still be written with our current LBs, but obviously Mitchell has shown tremendous talent so far, but he was hurt last game. I am not sure George is 100% either. With our 2 best defensive players out or hurting, our defense gets exposed pretty quickly.

I also think a lot depends on yanni.. if you look at how good George was right away it’s not inconceivable to think that yanni could come in and be as good as a freshman as say jo jo domann is now

 

[nat100]

That defense was loaded with seniors. Lets see what happens when this team gets old again.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

That defense was loaded with seniors. Lets see what happens when this team gets old again.

just Gotta avoid the Tobias Larry’s and cornel jones.. if we had similar players who panned out and were solid we’d be a lot better off

 

[purduepat1969]

Some of it is most definitely scheme, bend but don't break. I agree it is frustrating to watch. I'm just saying the talent in the pipeline should eventually surpass the 2017 team when they are ready for the field. If not, we've got serious developmental problems.

I'm not sure what "bend, but don't break" has to do with the DL getting stood up on pass rush? That's happened early in the Iowa game and also in the NW game. I fully get and understand we might be better when we get age and depth. But Neal and Watt are 5th year seniors, which we likely lose next year. I'm not sure I see anyone right now emerging as their replacements that have been effective? Johnson? Faucheux? The depth beyond those 2 looks pretty slim if I look at the roster. Maybe I'm missing some of the younger guys?

 

[FirstDownB]

I'm more concerned about the LB than DL. For whatever reason, recruiting hasn't picked up much at LB.

 

[FirstDownB]

I'm not sure what "bend, but don't break" has to do with the DL getting stood up on pass rush? That's happened early in the Iowa game and also in the NW game. I fully get and understand we might be better when we get age and depth. But Neal and Watt are 5th year seniors, which we likely lose next year. I'm not sure I see anyone right now emerging as their replacements that have been effective? Johnson? Faucheux? The depth beyond those 2 looks pretty slim if I look at the roster. Maybe I'm missing some of the younger guys?

Deen, Sullivan, Stokes, and Johnson will all be in their 4th year next season. Karlaftis and Mitchell will be back.
Hunter, Faucheux, Hudgins, Austin, and Kpaka were all solid recruiting pickups in '19 and '20 and a few should be ready for action in '21. Neal and Watts aren't as irreplaceable as you think.

 

[nat100]

has stokes even played?

 

[FirstDownB]

has stokes even played?

Against Minnesota, yes

 

[nat100]

Against Minnesota, yes

Thanks, didnt notice.

 

[Riveting]

Deen, Sullivan, Stokes, and Johnson will all be in their 4th year next season. Karlaftis and Mitchell will be back.
Hunter, Faucheux, Hudgins, Austin, and Kpaka were all solid recruiting pickups in '19 and '20 and a few should be ready for action in '21. Neal and Watts aren't as irreplaceable as you think.

Neal and Watts could return, right, if they choose to ?

 

[purduepat1969]

Deen, Sullivan, Stokes, and Johnson will all be in their 4th year next season. Karlaftis and Mitchell will be back.
Hunter, Faucheux, Hudgins, Austin, and Kpaka were all solid recruiting pickups in '19 and '20 and a few should be ready for action in '21. Neal and Watts aren't as irreplaceable as you think.

I think we have a lot of defensive ends, but not much in the defensive tackle realm. I think Johnson and Faucheux will be good DTs. But Sullivan, Deen, Hunter, Hudgins, Karlaftis, Mitchell, and Kpaka are all DEs. Unless they gain some mass they won't be playing effectively at tackle. None of them are currently listed over 280 pounds. That is, unless we go strictly to a 3-4 defense...

 

[nat100]

Neal and Watts could return, right, if they choose to ?

They could. I would bet neal is gone.

 

[nat100]

I think we have a lot of defensive ends, but not much in the defensive tackle realm. I think Johnson and Faucheux will be good DTs. But Sullivan, Deen, Hunter, Hudgins, Karlaftis, Mitchell, and Kpaka are all DEs. Unless they gain some mass they won't be playing effectively at tackle. None of them are currently listed over 280 pounds. That is, unless we go strictly to a 3-4 defense...

I think some of those guys were intended to be 3 technique DTs. Deen and Kpaka especially.

 

[FirstDownB]

I think we have a lot of defensive ends, but not much in the defensive tackle realm. I think Johnson and Faucheux will be good DTs. But Sullivan, Deen, Hunter, Hudgins, Karlaftis, Mitchell, and Kpaka are all DEs. Unless they gain some mass they won't be playing effectively at tackle. None of them are currently listed over 280 pounds. That is, unless we go strictly to a 3-4 defense...

Austin is a tackle all the way. Sullivan played some there last year. Stokes and Deen are pretty close size-wise.
Matt Mitrione played at about 280-285, Craig Terrill at 285-290. Gelen was ~280.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Austin is a tackle all the way. Sullivan played some there last year. Stokes and Deen are pretty close size-wise.
Matt Mitrione played at about 280-285, Craig Terrill at 285-290. Gelen was ~280.

I definitely miss gelen Robinson .. man that front 7 made navon Mosley and kamal hardy look good

 

[purduepat1969]

Austin is a tackle all the way. Sullivan played some there last year. Stokes and Deen are pretty close size-wise.
Matt Mitrione played at about 280-285, Craig Terrill at 285-290. Gelen was ~280.

And maybe better speed is worth it. I'm not very knowledgeable about defensive lines. It just seemed odd to have so many DEs on the roster. But if we have a versatile line, that's not a bad thing.

 

[nat100]

And maybe better speed is worth it. I'm not very knowledgeable about defensive lines. It just seemed odd to have so many DEs on the roster. But if we have a versatile line, that's not a bad thing.

DE in the 3-4 should be 270+ pounds. In the okie front, they line up nose up on the T and need to have the strength to control two gaps..