Urban Meyer in trouble?
- Thread starter Gemini95
- Start date
Courtney Smith is not a student at Ohio State and not seeking an education, which means she is unlikely to make a successful Title IX claim against the school or Meyer.
Shelley Meyer isn't required by health care perspective to report anything. She is not a supervisor to Courtney Smith, they have different reporting requirements for different categories of employees.
Shelley Meyer isn't required by health care perspective to report anything. She is not a supervisor to Courtney Smith, they have different reporting requirements for different categories of employees.
This is a domestic abuse issue involving an employee.
In this day and age, it's serious as hell. Title IX or no.
serious, yes, but does it fall under title 9 ? and if not, is a person still required to report it? and to whom?
if you have a friend who is having domestic problems at home, would you report it? and to whom? Certainly not to some title 9 person. Would you report it to the police? and would you inform the entire world your friend is experiencing marital problems? if you knew a friend was cheating on their spouse, would you report them? A lot of things come out in divorce cases. Most of those issues are never previously reported. Are we at an age, where we record and report everything that happens around us? I realize this post because it's on the internet is being recorded and read by somebody and could be held against me in a court of law. and Bob Evans won't ask me to be their spokesman coach.
where is the line drawn?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_IX
Scroll down to the section titled:
"Sexual harassment and sexual violence"
An employee of an educational institution is far different than your neighbor or friend.
Scroll down to the section titled:
"Sexual harassment and sexual violence"
An employee of an educational institution is far different than your neighbor or friend.
I don't know, and I don't think Title IX is an issue. I think discussing Title IX is irrelevant.
I think the issues are, did OSU employ a known domestic abuser? And, did Urban in any way, shape or form, attempt to cover up that fact? If the answer is "yes" to either, I think Urban's @ss is in a sling, and he may have coached his last game at OSU.
I saw an article today that the Smiths had marital issues before coming to OSU, and that the Meyers provided counseling but still hired him. and that Meyer treats Smith as if he's a son dating back to his playing days for Meyer.
I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but it's obvious Meyer knows a lot of their past marital history, and was probably covering up for it.
This is interesting as it appears Meyers reported the abuse issues before he arrived at OSU, seemed to know it was an ongoing situation, and allowed it to continue over the course of what appears almost a decade, and then tried to cover it up.
I didn't copy the link. But trust me, the source seemed objective and not fake, and there is a lot more to it than is being revealed. it's like Trump covering u p for Don jr. the deeper you look, the more you find.
The issue at hand isn't the 2009 episode, which started the marital issues. The Meyer's (both of them) are fully knowing of that. The issue now is whether there was knowledge of continued violence and harassment, including the 2015 episode. Urban has been on record that he did not know about that, and these reports bring that into question.
a sad note. Smith's wife called for police to intervene in their domestic issue, , but refused to file any criminal charges. Instead, she filed for divorce. if no charges were ever filed, does this constitute spouse abuse? The ethical answer is yes. but is the legal answer, yes? and if she refused to file any charges, can you then say legally, there were no allegations/charges of abuse?
this is where I have the biggest problem understanding abuse allegations. if the victim refuses to file any charges, did an abuse legally happen?
this is where I have the biggest problem understanding abuse allegations. if the victim refuses to file any charges, did an abuse legally happen?
Based on several articles I've read, I would have to believe the two families are very close. They have followed each other for a long time starting with Smith playing for meyer, and meyer being a coach for Smith's grandfather. the two wives text together. One article indicated Meyer treats Smith as his son. if there was abuse going on, I have to believe the Meyers knew about it. it's also hard for me to believe if there was abuse in 2009, that it just stopped for more than 6 years, and then started again. I also find it hard to believe this is August, 2018, and we're talking about an incident that happened in 2015. I believe somebody thought this issue was buried long ago.
You're right on pretty much all of that, including that the abuse didn't stop. I would guess that there's no chance that Urban didn't know all of it, but the question for O$U is whether it can be reasonably proven that he did.
It looks like you need to look at this case from 2 different standpoints. One is the criminal issue, which would be putting Smith in jail. The other is the Title IX issue, which is where Urban's role comes in vis-a-vis Ohio State. Yes, if Courtney doesn't press charges, nothing legal can happen to Smith. But that doesn't mean the allegations can't bring about issues for O$U and Meyer.
It looks like you need to look at this case from 2 different standpoints. One is the criminal issue, which would be putting Smith in jail. The other is the Title IX issue, which is where Urban's role comes in vis-a-vis Ohio State. Yes, if Courtney doesn't press charges, nothing legal can happen to Smith. But that doesn't mean the allegations can't bring about issues for O$U and Meyer.
Bigs, the issue was dredged back up based on contradictory information just discovered.
Maybe she didn't press charges because she didn't want him fired (aka lose his job and her support). So to your point, if she didn't press charges, was there abuse by legal definition
(I have read Smith was originally arrested, but the report was changed). I have also read some less than flattering stuff about the wife, and if true, that may also have impacted whether or not charges were filed due to credibility concerns.
There may be a real reason why the divorce file was sealed and not opened until now.
Sounds like a great movie for the B1G football fans to watch over the next few weeks.
Many women suffer continual abuse, but never complain or file charges. That is a problem with our society. The question remains if the woman refuses to file abuse charges, should the male be charged with abuse? And if not charged, should he be held liable for just allegations?
I'm not a lawyer, but I have testified several times. In both cases, I thought the person got off easy. And I know of many cases that unfortunately never went to trial. It is sometimes hard to decifer between what is ethically right, and what is a person's legal right.
I don't like people who lie, I also don't like people who go to court and say, I can't recall.
Will Meyer and OSU follow the right ethical course? Or will legality and lawyers alter justice once more?
I'm not a lawyer, but I have testified several times. In both cases, I thought the person got off easy. And I know of many cases that unfortunately never went to trial. It is sometimes hard to decifer between what is ethically right, and what is a person's legal right.
I don't like people who lie, I also don't like people who go to court and say, I can't recall.
Will Meyer and OSU follow the right ethical course? Or will legality and lawyers alter justice once more?
The Iowa State coach has been rumored to be first choice already. Whether it is true or not, I don't know. No mention of CJB just yet.
Brohm has it absolutely made right now at Purdue. If he gets a 7 win season this year, folks will be clambering for more. He also has shown that he can recruit at a very good level here. It only becomes easier as the wins follow. I just can't see him leaving this '19 class and if they do fire Urban, I don't see it drawing out. I think if CJB's name comes up, it will only be in rumor.
A newly released article claims thier divorce settlement was sealed because the defendant claimed if released it would cause severe damage to his ability to hold a job and the judge sided with him. He was recently accused of violating a court order of entering her house.
I'm wondering how this most recent action unsealed the previous divorce ruling, or if the previous action was illegally leaked, or if his ex wife went against the court ruling and revealed everything.
This seems much like the Bill Cosby trial where a previous court gag order ruling was ignored by the accuser who went public. Their divorce ruling was ordered shut and she agreed to that ruling. But now she is revealing everything that was ruled shut. Could she be sued or found in contempt of court for revealing what she agreed to keep sealed?
In the military, you are sworn to secrecy. I'm not sure what would happen to the person who would break that oath and go public with the truth that was previously ordered closed. I've witnessed a lot of court marshals where a soldier disobeyed orders and went public with the truth. I'm now witnessing many women who were given hush money breaking their court agreements and coming forward.
I don't have a conclusion. She violated a court order, by revealing the truth, but was the court order just? Meyer lied about it, but was he following the law by not revealing what was by law supposed to be sealed?
This story is complicated. Did the Ohio politician know about the abuse of the wrestlers? He says no. Does anybody believe him?
I'm wondering how this most recent action unsealed the previous divorce ruling, or if the previous action was illegally leaked, or if his ex wife went against the court ruling and revealed everything.
This seems much like the Bill Cosby trial where a previous court gag order ruling was ignored by the accuser who went public. Their divorce ruling was ordered shut and she agreed to that ruling. But now she is revealing everything that was ruled shut. Could she be sued or found in contempt of court for revealing what she agreed to keep sealed?
In the military, you are sworn to secrecy. I'm not sure what would happen to the person who would break that oath and go public with the truth that was previously ordered closed. I've witnessed a lot of court marshals where a soldier disobeyed orders and went public with the truth. I'm now witnessing many women who were given hush money breaking their court agreements and coming forward.
I don't have a conclusion. She violated a court order, by revealing the truth, but was the court order just? Meyer lied about it, but was he following the law by not revealing what was by law supposed to be sealed?
This story is complicated. Did the Ohio politician know about the abuse of the wrestlers? He says no. Does anybody believe him?
if Campbell would go there, don't think we would have to worry about the Cyclones poaching CJB.
I thought this was a solid overview of the situation.
https://www.theringer.com/2018/8/2/17644646/urban-meyer-ohio-state-zach-smith-administrative-leave
https://www.theringer.com/2018/8/2/17644646/urban-meyer-ohio-state-zach-smith-administrative-leave
I would agree. I liked the ending line. There is an easy decision and the right one. And that should apply to our entire society, not just colleges and college coaches. I've become tired of the lies and the greed and the lack of ethics.
I would highly doubt that anything happens to Urban. Nothing happened to Sean Miller at Arizona so I see the same at OSU.
I agree he won't get canned but I think the MSU situation is a better comparison than Sean Miller. Let's face it, cheating and paying recruits is a relatively victimless crime (other than honest programs like Purdue, Michigan, etc). In the msu and osu cases, women and children were physically and sexually abused
Looks like Urbs is taking responsibility only for last week’s lie or “failure” to tell the truth and circling the wagons with Smith in regards to the allegations. Hmm.. this could get really interesting. I know the guy has an ego, but I can’t believe he would go there at this point if it isn’t a defensible position with some backing of police records from investigation into the allegations. There’s no way they go into a simple he said/she said with the photos that are out there.
I tend to generally agree. Title IX is student focused not general public focused. It is to prevent/require various behaviors which are generally institutional in nature or design. In the event that there was evidence that there was some allegation of systemic acceptance of sexual/domestic violence against students by the school, then I could see the 2015 and 2009 incidents as being relevant to institutional responsibilty for fostering sexual/domestic violence against students. I have seen nothing raising such nor do I think it is likely.
While OSU can release him from his coaching duties the more difficult question is can they do so for cause and thereby be released from its obligation to continue to pay him or reach a buyout. That would seem to require an analysis of the actual full language of his employment contract, which I haven't seen.
I believe OSU will need to accomplish a thourough review of their files and records before they take any action against Urb. And Urb has claimed he filed the notification and could claim they lost it and took no action. Essentially he's throwing OSU under the bus .
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I guess that I am a bit unclear about many of the comments.
Did he have an obligation (not should he, but was he required) to report either the 2009 or the 2015 incidents and issues to OSU?
If so, why?
Did he have an obligation (not should he, but was he required) to report either the 2009 or the 2015 incidents and issues to OSU?
If so, why?
Agree, and what happened at MSU with the sexual should have brought down the entire athletic department, considering all that was known. This was a domestic cast of husband and wife and not nearly on the same level.
MSU approached PSU levels
Frankly in the sheer scope of what happened, MSU is far worse than PSU. Then you add in the behavior of the FB and BB teams and it quickly becomes a case of LOIC.
Well, the decision is in and Urban wins in a route. He's back to coaching. His team is 3-0. And he's back to dictating to the narrative to the media while the national attention is bored with the story and the NFL is back on tv.
