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Tighter U.S.-Mexico border enforcement has backfired: Study

TheCainer

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Sep 23, 2003
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A Princeton study concludes that we have basically shot ourselves in the foot with our border patrol policy over the last 30 years. Basically the study says that with our increased security we have made it harder for migrants to return to Mexico once they got here and had worked a while. It also concludes that the rate of migrants is probably decreasing due to lower birth rates in Mexico. Given this information, is a "wall" really necessary? I'm sure those who would build the wall and manage its surveillance would say that it is, but they would have a vested interest in its construction.


From 1986 to 2010, the United States spent $35 billion on border enforcement, but the net rate of undocumented population growth doubled. The rapid escalation of border enforcement over the past three decades has backfired as a strategy to control undocumented immigration between Mexico and the United States, according to new research that suggests further militarization of the border is a waste of money.


The rapid escalation of border enforcement over the past three decades has backfiredas a strategy to control undocumented immigration between Mexico and the United States,according to new research that suggests further militarization of the border is a waste of money.

“Rather than stopping undocumented Mexicans from coming to the U.S., greater enforcement stopped them from going home,” said Douglas Massey, one of the researchers and the Henry G. Bryant Professor ofSociology and Public Affairs at Princeton.

Advocated by bureaucrats, politicians, and pundits, the militarization of the U.S. border with Mexico transformed undocumented Mexican migration from a circular flow of predominantly male workers going to a few states into a settled population of about 11 million in all 50 states, Massey said. From 1986 to 2010, the United States spent $35 billion on border enforcement and the net rate of undocumented population growth doubled, he said.

“By the 1990s border enforcement had become a self-sustaining cycle in which rising apprehensions provided proof of the ongoing ‘illegal invasion’ to justify more resources allocated to border enforcement, which produced more apprehensions, even though the actual number of undocumented migrants seeking entry was not increasing,” Massey said.

The research is detailed in an article, “Why Border Enforcement Backfired,” that was published by the American Journal of Sociologyin March.

Princeton U notes that while advocates of increased border enforcement argued it would slow undocumented immigration, Massey said data gathered from communities throughout Mexico since 1987 on histories of migration and border crossings point to the opposite effect.

“Greater enforcement raised the costs of undocumented border crossing, which required undocumented migrants to stay longer in the United States to make a trip profitable,” he said. “Greater enforcement also increased the risk of death and injury during border crossing. As the costs and risks rose, migrants naturally minimized border crossing — not by remaining in Mexico but by staying in the United States.”

The authors say this is a good time to shift from a policy of immigration suppression to one of immigration management.

Mass immigration from Mexico has ended and won’t be coming back owing to the decline of Mexican fertility from 6.5 children per woman in the 1960s to around 2.2 children per woman today, roughly replacement level,” Massey said. “Labor force growth in Mexico has dropped sharply and Mexico is now becoming an aging society in which fewer and fewer people are in the migration-prone ages of 15-30, so the pressure is off in a demographic sense.”

Most migration now is legal, Massey said, a situation that will continue so long as temporary work visas are matched with U.S. labor needs.

“The greatest need now is a path to legal status for the eleven million undocumented residents who are already here, who mostly have been here now for fifteen years or more and increasingly have U.S. citizen children,” he said. “If we were to grant these people permanent legal status, many would actually return home, secure in the knowledge they could re-enter whenever they want.”

Mary Waters, the M. E. Zukerman Professor of Sociology at Harvard University who studies immigration, said the research highlights the folly and waste of American immigration policy.

“This is a very important article that looks at a long sweep of history and provides the very best data and analysis to lead to a conclusion that most Americans would find very counter-intuitive,” said Waters, who wasn’t involved in the research. “Throwing money at militarizing the border led to the growth of undocumented immigration and if we had just done nothing, undocumented immigration would be much lower.”

Waters said policymakers should pay attention to this research.

“This is social science research at its very best — addressing an important public policy question with state of the art methods and painstakingly collected empirical data,” Waters said.


http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire...mexico-border-enforcement-has-backfired-study
 
The Ivy League hates this country. Up is down and down is up with the ivy league. A total fraud.

Let me guess no border security would be better? Is oxygen bad too? Should I avoid sunshine? Should reptiles avoid sun too? Why have border security? Why not let terrorists cross the borders first and then have 200 hour lines of arrogant ugly faced blue shirt fat people feeling us up at the airports and getting off on our naked body pics in the airport radiation X-ray cancer causer machines. Why keep drugs from entering the country why not just have 20 million people in jail for smoking crack making Bush and his CIA British agent pals and his witch Queen of England relative more filthy rich while they piss on the country some more now. Should ISIS be in charge of airport security too? Some big potbelly in a big blue TSA shirt strutting around with his white plastic gloves and his arrogant criminal face makes us all safer now.

35 billion haha. Yah the government said some people hijacked jets and flew them into the twin towers and half the hijackers they claimed did it were found alive. FBI had video of them going through airport security and they were later found alive to this day. That same guy the FBI turned into their poster child well the FBI also managed to find his passport within 48 hours in over a billion tons of rubble spread over 20 city blocks. Superman couldn't do that with his X-ray vision eyes but it is still a conspiracy theory to not believe the FBI pimping out their trashy lies to the cuck'd public. Pentagon released the day before 911 that 3 trillion dollars went missing from Pentagon too. That 35 billion didn't go to border security. That 3 trillion didn't go missing from a leprechaun either. Let's just clear that up right now little rich kid college King's college punk school. The people that run this fake government filled with Hillary Clinton's got a real nice payday that day. Their little Orwell article about not having a border being better is real cute now. Why have bank vaults or front doors on our houses then?
 
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The study may or may not be correct, I don't know. But what I do know is that when I see it was written by a bunch of Ivy sociology professors, I already know it's laced with bias. The dead giveaway is: "“The greatest need now is a path to legal status for the eleven million undocumented residents who are already here..."

Talk about undermining your own paper, but then again, I would say that in the world of sociology, there's not likely to exist any dissenting opinion.

For the record, I am vehemently against "The Wall" and agree that it's patently stupid. I just also want to call a spade a spade with respect to this research. Confirmation bias at its finest.
 
The study may or may not be correct, I don't know. But what I do know is that when I see it was written by a bunch of Ivy sociology professors, I already know it's laced with bias. The dead giveaway is: "“The greatest need now is a path to legal status for the eleven million undocumented residents who are already here..."

Talk about undermining your own paper, but then again, I would say that in the world of sociology, there's not likely to exist any dissenting opinion.

For the record, I am vehemently against "The Wall" and agree that it's patently stupid. I just also want to call a spade a spade with respect to this research. Confirmation bias at its finest.

Hey Gr. If you are against the Wall how do you propose that we secure our Southern Border?
 
Hey Gr. If you are against the Wall how do you propose that we secure our Southern Border?

I don't have a major issue with it as it is. I mean, I live two miles from it, I know a couple of guys on the Border Patrol. The issues they deal with have nothing to do with anything a wall would fix. It's boats (including semi-submersibles) and it's tunnels. The wall is an idiotic idea put forth to appeal to emotions and garner votes from the ignorant.
 
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I don't have a major issue with it as it is. I mean, I live two miles from it, I know a couple of guys on the Border Patrol. The issues they deal with have nothing to do with anything a wall would fix. It's boats (including semi-submersibles) and it's tunnels. The wall is an idiotic idea put forth to appeal to emotions and garner votes from the ignorant.[/QUOTE

So you feel the border is secure as it is now?

I have lived on the border too. The vast majority of illegals walk across. Sure tunnels, boats, etc carry drugs are there for drugs, etc. by the way from a technology viewpoint a wall can be in many forms in additional to physical barriers. Last year did 70,000 kids go thru tunnels and by boats?
 
I think there are bigger issues facing the country than southern border security, and the construction of a wall is a waste of taxpayer money. (No, Mexico isn't going to pay for it.)

I think you have been duped by a billionaire with no intention of building said wall.
 
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I think there are bigger issues facing the country than southern border security, and the construction of a wall is a waste of taxpayer money. (No, Mexico isn't going to pay for it.)

I think you have been duped by a billionaire with no intention of building said wall.

Thanks for your input. I know we have a lot of important issues to work on as a country. Border security is one of them IMO.
 
I think there are bigger issues facing the country than southern border security, and the construction of a wall is a waste of taxpayer money. (No, Mexico isn't going to pay for it.)

I think you have been duped by a billionaire with no intention of building said wall.
did you see where one of his surrogates said it was going to be a "virtual" wall.

The ONLY good thing to a Trump election will be to watch the collective losing of sh$t that will happen on one side when he doesn't do 10 percent of what he's promised.
 
did you see where one of his surrogates said it was going to be a "virtual" wall.

The ONLY good thing to a Trump election will be to watch the collective losing of sh$t that will happen on one side when he doesn't do 10 percent of what he's promised.

Agreed. I wonder what the anti-establishment folks will say when he starts toeing the party line as he inevitably will because he's not being elected emperor.
 
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god forbid anyone bring up immigration reform! THERE IS NO PROBLEM...LOL
Hear-No-Evil-See-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil.png
 
god forbid anyone bring up immigration reform! THERE IS NO PROBLEM...LOL
Hear-No-Evil-See-No-Evil-Speak-No-Evil.png
the problem is what? cheap food? cheap construction costs? Folks paying into SS and medicare without receiving the benefits? (well yeah that actually is a problem).
 
Agreed. I wonder what the anti-establishment folks will say when he starts toeing the party line as he inevitably will because he's not being elected emperor.
It will take them a little bit of denial time as they explain away SOME of his compromises, but after a couple of years, they will turn on him like month old milk.
 
the problem is what? cheap food? cheap construction costs? Folks paying into SS and medicare without receiving the benefits? (well yeah that actually is a problem).
typical pro slave labor democrat. 10B a year net loss says CIS.
 
typical pro slave labor democrat. 10B a year net loss says CIS.
CIS didn't count the value of the labor done by illegal immigrants. We've already had this discussion, did you forget already?

Slaves? Really? I think you need a better understanding of that word. but I get it, it's really your concern for these poor immigrants that's driving your thoughts.
 
CIS didn't count the value of the labor done by illegal immigrants. We've already had this discussion, did you forget already?

Slaves? Really? I think you need a better understanding of that word. but I get it, it's really your concern for these poor immigrants that's driving your thoughts.
what other conclusion can we come to? BO was just too busy to get around to it? It's obvious at this point Democrats have no real desire to offer any remedy.
 
what other conclusion can we come to? BO was just too busy to get around to it? It's obvious at this point Democrats have no real desire to offer any remedy.
Yep, no democratic bills at all dealing with the immigration issue, or executive orders, or policy positions.

No acts that rhyme with DREAM...nothing.
 
what other conclusion can we come to? BO was just too busy to get around to it? It's obvious at this point Democrats have no real desire to offer any remedy.

You obviously missed this. Unfortunately the GOP run house never even brought it up for a vote, true to their obstructionist agenda.

People like you have no clue as to what's going on.

Senate passes immigration bill
By SEUNG MIN KIM


06/27/13 04:25 PM EDT


Updated 06/28/13 12:19 AM EDT

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
The Senate on Thursday passed the most monumental overhaul of U.S. immigration laws in a generation, which would clear the way for millions of undocumented residents to have a chance at citizenship, attract workers from all over the world and devote unprecedented resources for security along the U.S.-Mexico border.

The vote was 68-32. Fourteen Republicans crossed the aisle to vote with all Democrats in favor. Thursday’s vote now puts the onus of immigration reform on the Republican-led House, where leaders have been resistant to the Senate legislation.

Story Continued Below

“The strong bipartisan vote we took is going to send a message across the country, it’s going to send a message to the other end of the Capitol as well,” said Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), the leader of the so-called Gang of Eight. “The bill has generated a level of support that we believe will be impossible for the House to ignore.

( Also on POLITICO: Republicans who voted for the bill)

The bill was a product of not only weeks of floor debate and committee rewrites, but months of private negotiations by the Gang of Eight — the group of four Democrats and four Republicans — to produce legislation that would give the Senate a shot at passing immigration reform, something it was unable to do just six years ago.

Republicans, shellacked by Mitt Romney’s 44-point loss among Latinos in the 2012 presidential election, almost immediately coalesced behind immigration reform as a top priority. The Gang of Eight got together last fall and recruited veterans of the 2007 immigration battle such as Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), long-time champions of reform such as Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) and high-wattage Senate newcomers, like Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.).

If Congress passes immigration reform, it would make good on a promise from President Barack Obama and likely become his most significant policy achievement in his second term. In a statement, Obama emphasized that the bill was collaborative effort.

( PHOTOS: Pols react to immigration deal)

“The bipartisan bill that passed today was a compromise,” Obama said. “By definition, nobody got everything they wanted. Not Democrats. Not Republicans. Not me. But the Senate bill is consistent with the key principles for commonsense reform that I – and many others – have repeatedly laid out.”

He called on the House to act and emphasized to supporters that the fight is not over. “Now is the time when opponents will try their hardest to pull this bipartisan effort apart so they can stop commonsense reform from becoming a reality. We cannot let that happen,” Obama said.

The Gang of Eight bill would essentially revamp every corner of U.S. immigration law, establishing a 13-year pathway to citizenship for millions of undocumented immigrants, with several security benchmarks that have to be met before they can obtain a green card. The measure would not only increases security along the border, but requires a mandatory workplace verification system for employers, trying to ensure no jobs are given to immigrants who are not authorized to work in the United States.

( PHOTOS: 10 wild immigration quotes)

It also includes a new visa program for lesser-skilled workers – the product of negotiations between the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and labor unions. And it shifts the country’s immigration policies away from a family-based system to one that is focused on more on work skills.

In another marked change from the failed 2007 effort, no Democrats voted against the immigration bill on Thursday. Six years ago, 15 Senate Democrats did.

This year, all five Senate Republican leaders rejected the bill, with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) saying he didn’t believe there was sufficient border-security measures to stem future illegal immigration.

The late afternoon vote in the Senate had much pomp and circumstance. Senators voted from their desks, a practice usually saved for historic pieces of legislation. Vice President Joe Biden arrived from the White House to preside. And dozens of young activists wearing shirts that said “11 Million Dreams” filled the Senate gallery, watching the last hours of floor debate.

( PHOTOS: 20 quotes on immigration reform)

They broke out in chants of “Yes we can,” after the final vote count was announced, despite being warned by Biden in advance to stay quiet.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/immigration-bill-2013-senate-passes-093530#ixzz49WpXVnrj
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
 
You obviously missed this. Unfortunately the GOP run house never even brought it up for a vote, true to their obstructionist agenda.

People like you have no clue as to what's going on.

Senate passes immigration bill
By SEUNG MIN KIM


06/27/13 04:25 PM EDT


Updated 06/28/13 12:19 AM EDT

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
The Senate on Thursday passed the most monumental overhaul of U.S. immigration laws in a generation, which would clear the way for millions of undocumented residents to have a chance at citizenship, attract workers from all over the world and devote unprecedented resources for security along the U.S.-Mexico border.

The vote was 68-32. Fourteen Republicans crossed the aisle to vote with all Democrats in favor. Thursday’s vote now puts the onus of immigration reform on the Republican-led House, where leaders have been resistant to the Senate legislation.

Story Continued Below

“The strong bipartisan vote we took is going to send a message across the country, it’s going to send a message to the other end of the Capitol as well,” said Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), the leader of the so-called Gang of Eight. “The bill has generated a level of support that we believe will be impossible for the House to ignore.

( Also on POLITICO: Republicans who voted for the bill)

The bill was a product of not only weeks of floor debate and committee rewrites, but months of private negotiations by the Gang of Eight — the group of four Democrats and four Republicans — to produce legislation that would give the Senate a shot at passing immigration reform, something it was unable to do just six years ago.

Republicans, shellacked by Mitt Romney’s 44-point loss among Latinos in the 2012 presidential election, almost immediately coalesced behind immigration reform as a top priority. The Gang of Eight got together last fall and recruited veterans of the 2007 immigration battle such as Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), long-time champions of reform such as Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) and high-wattage Senate newcomers, like Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.).

If Congress passes immigration reform, it would make good on a promise from President Barack Obama and likely become his most significant policy achievement in his second term. In a statement, Obama emphasized that the bill was collaborative effort.

( PHOTOS: Pols react to immigration deal)

“The bipartisan bill that passed today was a compromise,” Obama said. “By definition, nobody got everything they wanted. Not Democrats. Not Republicans. Not me. But the Senate bill is consistent with the key principles for commonsense reform that I – and many others – have repeatedly laid out.”

He called on the House to act and emphasized to supporters that the fight is not over. “Now is the time when opponents will try their hardest to pull this bipartisan effort apart so they can stop commonsense reform from becoming a reality. We cannot let that happen,” Obama said.

The Gang of Eight bill would essentially revamp every corner of U.S. immigration law, establishing a 13-year pathway to citizenship for millions of undocumented immigrants, with several security benchmarks that have to be met before they can obtain a green card. The measure would not only increases security along the border, but requires a mandatory workplace verification system for employers, trying to ensure no jobs are given to immigrants who are not authorized to work in the United States.

( PHOTOS: 10 wild immigration quotes)

It also includes a new visa program for lesser-skilled workers – the product of negotiations between the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and labor unions. And it shifts the country’s immigration policies away from a family-based system to one that is focused on more on work skills.

In another marked change from the failed 2007 effort, no Democrats voted against the immigration bill on Thursday. Six years ago, 15 Senate Democrats did.

This year, all five Senate Republican leaders rejected the bill, with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) saying he didn’t believe there was sufficient border-security measures to stem future illegal immigration.

The late afternoon vote in the Senate had much pomp and circumstance. Senators voted from their desks, a practice usually saved for historic pieces of legislation. Vice President Joe Biden arrived from the White House to preside. And dozens of young activists wearing shirts that said “11 Million Dreams” filled the Senate gallery, watching the last hours of floor debate.

( PHOTOS: 20 quotes on immigration reform)

They broke out in chants of “Yes we can,” after the final vote count was announced, despite being warned by Biden in advance to stay quiet.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/immigration-bill-2013-senate-passes-093530#ixzz49WpXVnrj
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
Let me explain something to you, you who think I have "no clue". To become law, a bill has to pass the house and senate and be signed by the president. What you linked never became law. He had 2 years of super majority to get it done. Didn't do it! Instead he waited until R's had complete and total House control. So get a clue yourself jackass and maybe next time link to a bill that actually became law!
 
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You obviously missed this. Unfortunately the GOP run house never even brought it up for a vote, true to their obstructionist agenda.

People like you have no clue as to what's going on.

Senate passes immigration bill
By SEUNG MIN KIM


06/27/13 04:25 PM EDT


Updated 06/28/13 12:19 AM EDT

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter
The Senate on Thursday passed the most monumental overhaul of U.S. immigration laws in a generation, which would clear the way for millions of undocumented residents to have a chance at citizenship, attract workers from all over the world and devote unprecedented resources for security along the U.S.-Mexico border.

The vote was 68-32. Fourteen Republicans crossed the aisle to vote with all Democrats in favor. Thursday’s vote now puts the onus of immigration reform on the Republican-led House, where leaders have been resistant to the Senate legislation.

Story Continued Below

“The strong bipartisan vote we took is going to send a message across the country, it’s going to send a message to the other end of the Capitol as well,” said Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), the leader of the so-called Gang of Eight. “The bill has generated a level of support that we believe will be impossible for the House to ignore.

( Also on POLITICO: Republicans who voted for the bill)

The bill was a product of not only weeks of floor debate and committee rewrites, but months of private negotiations by the Gang of Eight — the group of four Democrats and four Republicans — to produce legislation that would give the Senate a shot at passing immigration reform, something it was unable to do just six years ago.

Republicans, shellacked by Mitt Romney’s 44-point loss among Latinos in the 2012 presidential election, almost immediately coalesced behind immigration reform as a top priority. The Gang of Eight got together last fall and recruited veterans of the 2007 immigration battle such as Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), long-time champions of reform such as Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) and high-wattage Senate newcomers, like Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.).

If Congress passes immigration reform, it would make good on a promise from President Barack Obama and likely become his most significant policy achievement in his second term. In a statement, Obama emphasized that the bill was collaborative effort.

( PHOTOS: Pols react to immigration deal)

“The bipartisan bill that passed today was a compromise,” Obama said. “By definition, nobody got everything they wanted. Not Democrats. Not Republicans. Not me. But the Senate bill is consistent with the key principles for commonsense reform that I – and many others – have repeatedly laid out.”

He called on the House to act and emphasized to supporters that the fight is not over. “Now is the time when opponents will try their hardest to pull this bipartisan effort apart so they can stop commonsense reform from becoming a reality. We cannot let that happen,” Obama said.

The Gang of Eight bill would essentially revamp every corner of U.S. immigration law, establishing a 13-year pathway to citizenship for millions of undocumented immigrants, with several security benchmarks that have to be met before they can obtain a green card. The measure would not only increases security along the border, but requires a mandatory workplace verification system for employers, trying to ensure no jobs are given to immigrants who are not authorized to work in the United States.

( PHOTOS: 10 wild immigration quotes)

It also includes a new visa program for lesser-skilled workers – the product of negotiations between the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and labor unions. And it shifts the country’s immigration policies away from a family-based system to one that is focused on more on work skills.

In another marked change from the failed 2007 effort, no Democrats voted against the immigration bill on Thursday. Six years ago, 15 Senate Democrats did.

This year, all five Senate Republican leaders rejected the bill, with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) saying he didn’t believe there was sufficient border-security measures to stem future illegal immigration.

The late afternoon vote in the Senate had much pomp and circumstance. Senators voted from their desks, a practice usually saved for historic pieces of legislation. Vice President Joe Biden arrived from the White House to preside. And dozens of young activists wearing shirts that said “11 Million Dreams” filled the Senate gallery, watching the last hours of floor debate.

( PHOTOS: 20 quotes on immigration reform)

They broke out in chants of “Yes we can,” after the final vote count was announced, despite being warned by Biden in advance to stay quiet.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/immigration-bill-2013-senate-passes-093530#ixzz49WpXVnrj
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

Wasting. Time. You. Are.
 
Let me explain something to you, you who think I have "no clue". To become law, a bill has to pass the house and senate and be signed by the president. What you linked never became law. He had 2 years of super majority to get it done. Didn't do it! Instead he waited until R's had complete and total House control. So get a clue yourself jackass and maybe next time link to a bill that actually became law!

Strange that the major bill that did pass when they had the super-majority was "crammed down our throats without bipartisan support" (not necessarily your personal words, but the words of a few conservatives on this very message board), but the criticism with immigration is that they didn't do precisely that.
 
Strange that the major bill that did pass when they had the super-majority was "crammed down our throats without bipartisan support" (not necessarily your personal words, but the words of a few conservatives on this very message board), but the criticism with immigration is that they didn't do precisely that.
The Dems and Obama didn't do anything about immigration.

They passed a bipartisan bill in the Senate that the Republicans blocked in the House.

Well, they should have passed it when they had control of both chambers.

You mean like Obamacare?

Shut up libtard!
 
Strange that the major bill that did pass when they had the super-majority was "crammed down our throats without bipartisan support" (not necessarily your personal words, but the words of a few conservatives on this very message board), but the criticism with immigration is that they didn't do precisely that.
I didn't run on the promise of immigration reform. If I did, I wouldn't wait to address it. Everyone likes to crow about the solutions they have, but when it comes time to execute, what really happens? They drudge up some old bush era bill that has already been shot down twice? yikes.
 
I didn't run on the promise of immigration reform. If I did, I wouldn't wait to address it. Everyone likes to crow about the solutions they have, but when it comes time to execute, what really happens? They drudge up some old bush era bill that has already been shot down twice? yikes.
so putting forth a bipartisan bill that passed fairly strongly in the Senate doesn't count for anything for you.

Got it.

You're right, they SHOULD have rammed a much more liberal bill down the throats when they had full control like Obamacare, of course, then you'd be complaining about that wouldn't you?
 
so putting forth a bipartisan bill that passed fairly strongly in the Senate doesn't count for anything for you.

Got it.

You're right, they SHOULD have rammed a much more liberal bill down the throats when they had full control like Obamacare, of course, then you'd be complaining about that wouldn't you?
nice strawman as usual. you refute nothing, assume a bunch of bullshit, and try to appear smart.
 
nice strawman as usual. you refute nothing, assume a bunch of bullshit, and try to appear smart.
with, it doesn't even really require trying to appear smart. I just have to be able to string one cogent thought together. When you string your first one together, we'll all take a day off in celebration, or regard it as a sign of the Apocalypse.

Either way, it will be a big deal is what I'm saying.
 
nice strawman as usual. you refute nothing, assume a bunch of bullshit, and try to appear smart.

It's a strawman, but it's true. The major complaint about ACA is that it was a liberal bill (which is the one Obama ran on, by the way) that was crammed down our throats. Had the admin done the same with immigration reform, the complaint would be the same.

If you've got beef with no immigration reform under Obama, I'm afraid it should be with the Republicans in the House. I mean, even Ted Cruz campaigned against Rubio citing the "Gang of Eight" problem, even though Rubio worked with other more prominent Republican and Democratic Senators on immigration reform that actually passed vote in the Senate.

The problem today is that there is a segment of Republicans who think they can and should have everything their way. The political reality is quite the opposite, yet they think if they hold their breath long enough, stuff will happen. Again, quite the opposite is and has been true.

The House and Senate have been majority Republican for almost two years now... Where's the immigration bill for Obama to veto? THEN you could blame Obama. Now? Not so much.
 
It's a strawman, but it's true. The major complaint about ACA is that it was a liberal bill (which is the one Obama ran on, by the way) that was crammed down our throats. Had the admin done the same with immigration reform, the complaint would be the same.

If you've got beef with no immigration reform under Obama, I'm afraid it should be with the Republicans in the House. I mean, even Ted Cruz campaigned against Rubio citing the "Gang of Eight" problem, even though Rubio worked with other more prominent Republican and Democratic Senators on immigration reform that actually passed vote in the Senate.

The problem today is that there is a segment of Republicans who think they can and should have everything their way. The political reality is quite the opposite, yet they think if they hold their breath long enough, stuff will happen. Again, quite the opposite is and has been true.

The House and Senate have been majority Republican for almost two years now... Where's the immigration bill for Obama to veto? THEN you could blame Obama. Now? Not so much.
A crappy bill is a crappy bill whether it's bipartisan or not. ACA is crap. I would say that no matter what party pushed it through. DREAM is a lot of Orrin Hatch who I do not care for and frankly I'm glad the bill was killed again. It's thinly veiled conditional amnesty with a bunch of education expenses for illegals that we won't even provide our legal citizens. I am for an organized amnesty which creates proper legitimate citizens for those with jobs or in school that aren't criminals . Not half citizens or conditional ones. You're in or out. No extras on top of it. And yes I blame BO. He promised it, not the House R's, half of whom are nuts anyway.
 
with, it doesn't even really require trying to appear smart. I just have to be able to string one cogent thought together. When you string your first one together, we'll all take a day off in celebration, or regard it as a sign of the Apocalypse.

Either way, it will be a big deal is what I'm saying.
from straw men to ad hom. That's all you got which is why you are so boring.
 
So, what should Obama have done then? Executive writ? (LOL)

Amnesty is the only viable solution. It's going to happen.
oh i don't know, come up with an original bill? One that's simple, accomplishes the task, and doesn't cost a fortune? god forbid...I know...
 
lol yeah, you never go ad hom, like in the very message I responded to. I see someone can dish it but can't take it lol
I still manage to address the point when I do it. You don't. I'm seasoned steak and you're just salty.
 
I still manage to address the point when I do it. You don't. I'm seasoned steak and you're just salty.
No, no you don't. Half the time you're addressing a point, you're just flat out wrong. You've quickly become the most insufferable person on this board IMO. Well, except for ecouch when he's discussing religion.
 
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