Tick, tick, tick to 2021, Kool-Aid Drinkers.

[vilehoopster]

This is to all you "Painter can coach here as long as he wants" people. Especially you TC4three whom I made this prediction to a couple weeks ago.

I am once again stating my prediction, that if Painter whiffs on this 2017 class with all the loaded local talent, that he won't be coaching at Purdue in 2021, not even the end of his extension.

And I would say that the whiffing is well, well underway. Are we really going to get thru this class without one, not one top-50 player? I'm sure we'll get a few or couple 70 thru 150 guys (same old, same old), but this was the year that EVERYONE was pointing to, that we banked the scholarships for, the year that was gonna get us to an Elite Eight or Final Four.

Unless Painter pulls out a lower ranked kid who really turns out to be an instant stud, like a Robbie Hummel or Gordon Hayward, tick, tick, tick to 2021.

I'm putting myself out the line. You can make fun of me if Painter proves me wrong with a Final Four or if he's even here coaching in '21.

And I want Painter to prove me wrong. I want him to get us to a Final Four, and all you kool-aid drinkers can say, "What an idiot you are, Vilehoopster!" I'd love to eat crow to have Purdue in a Final Four, so don't tell me I'm not a true fan. But I'm tired or waiting. I'm tired of always hearing that this next recruiting class will be the one that changes everything. I'm a true fan who's tired of being an outsider by the first weekend of the NCAA tourney.

 

[PU52Chevy]

Ignore list.....for this douche.

Love that feature it cleans up the negative nancy's.

Boiler Up....cant wait to see us play this year...like every year I support positive!

 

[Kesselschmiede]

Oh good Lord just STFU. You aren't a true fan at all and just some whiney punk on the internet that cries when faced with a little adversity. I doubt you're even a Boiler.

 

[vilehoopster]

Ignore list.....for this douche.

Love that feature it cleans up the negative nancy's.

Boiler Up....cant wait to see us play this year...like every year I support positive!

That's my complain, "this year . . . like every year".

 

[boilersallthewaynow]

This is to all you "Painter can coach here as long as he wants" people. Especially you TC4three whom I made this prediction to a couple weeks ago.

I am once again stating my prediction, that if Painter whiffs on this 2017 class with all the loaded local talent, that he won't be coaching at Purdue in 2021, not even the end of his extension.

And I would say that the whiffing is well, well underway. Are we really going to get thru this class without one, not one top-50 player? I'm sure we'll get a few or couple 70 thru 150 guys (same old, same old), but this was the year that EVERYONE was pointing to, that we banked the scholarships for, the year that was gonna get us to an Elite Eight or Final Four.

Unless Painter pulls out a lower ranked kid who really turns out to be an instant stud, like a Robbie Hummel or Gordon Hayward, tick, tick, tick to 2021.

I'm putting myself out the line. You can make fun of me if Painter proves me wrong with a Final Four or if he's even here coaching in '21.

And I want Painter to prove me wrong. I want him to get us to a Final Four, and all you kool-aid drinkers can say, "What an idiot you are, Vilehoopster!" I'd love to eat crow to have Purdue in a Final Four, so don't tell me I'm not a true fan. But I'm tired or waiting. I'm tired of always hearing that this next recruiting class will be the one that changes everything. I'm a true fan who's tired of being an outsider by the first weekend of the NCAA tourney.

Yea, you idiot! Why cloud the issue with the truth? You are as ignorant as the defenders are right.

Wait, wait.

Sorry Vile, I got that backwards !

You just keep on telling it like you see it.

Sadly, you are so right and I feel the same way . I'd love to be wrong but going on nearly 12 years of evidence it's impossible to deny the truth.

Well for some of us.

Don't forget the battle cry, "Trust in Painter" !!!

 

[B-Westy]

Yea, you idiot! Why cloud the issue with the truth? You are as ignorant as the defenders are right.

Wait, wait.

Sorry Vile, I got that backwards !

You just keep on telling it like you see it.

Sadly, you are so right and I feel the same way . I'd love to be wrong but going on nearly 12 years of evidence it's impossible to deny the truth.

Well for some of us.

Don't forget the battle cry, "Trust in Painter" !!!

Non-Purdue grad always bitching. Embarrassing.

 

[TC4THREE]

Non-Purdue grad always bitching. Embarrassing.

Pretty sad indeed.

 

[BBG]

So here is where I am at. Not that anyone cares nor does it matter ultimately, but still this thread seems appropriate for this.

Basically for me it all boils down to what happens this season and in the tourney. If Purdue flames out then I will more than likely start to lean towards it is time to think about another coach. Now, before I am jumped that does NOT mean an insta-firing but more or less when the contract is done, we part ways.

First and foremost as Mathboy put it, I am a PURDUE support not a PAINTER supporter. I am the same way in regards to football as well in that I supported Hope because he was the head coach not because I was a Hope fan which is the same thing here. Painter has very good talent on this team right now with more than enough for a deep tourney run. If there is a first round exit again then barring a deep run after, when the contract is up it is time to think of another option.

Painter simply may not be a good recruiter. Nothing wrong with that because very few coaches are complete in every area, he just needs to find someone that is and get them on staff. Painter IS a good X's and O's coach and above average in the conference which usually is good enough, but we all want to see more than just a conference crown now.

Now if we exit the first round and have a sheer debacle of a season the following, then I might just have to jump on the replace him sooner rather than later bandwagon. That would just be as bad as what is happening with the football program IMO and we deserve better than that. But I am not near that thinking just yet.

Also I do not regret for a second my support of the team and standing by them and Painter even now. I want to wait and see how things play out because I have no way of knowing what the future holds for this team and Painter, none of us do. It would be the "Purdue way" for Painter to get fired only to land somewhere else and make it to the Final Four as things just seem to ironically happen for us that way for some reason.

I'm not a Kool-aid drinker, I am a "nursing a beer" drinker.

I'm optimistic for the future still, but if a couple things I mentioned above happen, my optimism will start to fade. If things tank to the point of regressing to the two bad seasons we had before, then that will change things for me dramatically.

 

[Mandeville LA]

Unless you can get a top 10 guy to come in to replace painter, I don't agree. There is no way I would take a chance on an unproven coach to replace a proven coach. If MP was let go by PU he would be out of work for about an hour.

 

[BBG]

Unless you can get a top 10 guy to come in to replace painter, I don't agree. There is no way I would take a chance on an unproven coach to replace a proven coach. If MP was let go by PU he would be out of work for about an hour.

Good points an I'm not giving up at all yet. I'm more or less just keeping a closer eye as it were

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Last I checked we are still ranked around 10-12 preseason. For being a terrible recruiter, he must be a pretty good coach.

 

[Mandeville LA]

Last I checked we are still ranked around 10-12 preseason. For being a terrible recruiter, he must be a pretty good coach.

No shit. It's not like we are Rutgers and bottom feeding in the B10.

 

[BBG]

Last I checked we are still ranked around 10-12 preseason. For being a terrible recruiter, he must be a pretty good coach.

True enough. I should of clarified my statement with a "I have no idea if he needs a recruiter".

Not trying to be snarky, there are probably a million reasons players pick or don't pick us.

 

[TC4THREE]

Last I checked we are still ranked around 10-12 preseason. For being a terrible recruiter, he must be a pretty good coach.

That's the funny part. You have people that swear up and down on this board that he can neither recruit nor do x's and o's.

 

[sixpackpete]

I have endevored to stay out of all the back and forth but I think the big problem is that the "Fire Painter" crowd think that ALL or MOST Painter supporters are OK with the results of the last few years. I do not think that is the fact for most of us supporters.

Let me try to explain what I see, hear, and feel.

Coach came to Purdue on the heals of five poor years to end Gene Keady's career. After one year to get his feet wet he started out pretty hot and was considered by MOST to be an up and coming coach on the national scene.

Six years of good to great regular season and NCAA success (2 or 3 wins each year) with a final ranking in the top 20 for 4 of those years and things were looking VERY good, not just average.

Then for two years the wheels fell off. We all know that and we can all point to reasons why the good and bad occurred but it does to all but very few coaches.

I truly believe if those two years proved to be the norm, then we would all be there right with you.

I don't think any of us are ALL IN on Painter as much as we are ALL INterested in seeing if the rebound will continue the upward trend. He has increased the number of wins from 15 to 21 to 26 over the last three years. That is promising.

If he were a stock I wouldn't be looking to sell right now.

If this year he turns the OTHER way and we end up with less than 20 wins I think he will be on the hot seat. If it happens two years in a row we will all be ready for a replacement.

I, like many, feel that the TWO bad years were the exception, not the 8 great years. And no I am not satisfied with those 8 years either but he is moving in the right direction and I am willing to give him a further chance to prove he can build on that success.

Do I enjoy walking into work after Purdue loses in the first or second round to hear IU and UM fans? Heck no. Do I think that will continue? Heck no.

If he continues to improved he will regain his national respect. I also believe that it will be easier to turn those near misses we are seeing now into big gets on the recruiting trail in the future. When that happens he will win more in the NCAA. I think these go hand in hand.

I, like many, are not thrilled with where we have been but we also feel there are far too many worse choices out there and far too few better choices.

I respect your opinion and will not call you names just because I do not agree with it.

Signed a Kool-aide drinker.

 

[nat100]

With the extension they gave him, he wont be on the hot seat for a while. The buyout is massive ($14M) and the AD will already be handcuffed by paying 2 football coaches (Hazell and whoever else).

 

[M51]

I have endevored to stay out of all the back and forth but I think the big problem is that the "Fire Painter" crowd think that ALL or MOST Painter supporters are OK with the results of the last few years. I do not think that is the fact for most of us supporters.

Let me try to explain what I see, hear, and feel.

Coach came to Purdue on the heals of five poor years to end Gene Keady's career. After one year to get his feet wet he started out pretty hot and was considered by MOST to be an up and coming coach on the national scene.

Six years of good to great regular season and NCAA success (2 or 3 wins each year) with a final ranking in the top 20 for 4 of those years and things were looking VERY good, not just average.

Then for two years the wheels fell off. We all know that and we can all point to reasons why the good and bad occurred but it does to all but very few coaches.

I truly believe if those two years proved to be the norm, then we would all be there right with you.

I don't think any of us are ALL IN on Painter as much as we are ALL INterested in seeing if the rebound will continue the upward trend. He has increased the number of wins from 15 to 21 to 26 over the last three years. That is promising.

If he were a stock I wouldn't be looking to sell right now.

If this year he turns the OTHER way and we end up with less than 20 wins I think he will be on the hot seat. If it happens two years in a row we will all be ready for a replacement.

I, like many, feel that the TWO bad years were the exception, not the 8 great years. And no I am not satisfied with those 8 years either but he is moving in the right direction and I am willing to give him a further chance to prove he can build on that success.

Do I enjoy walking into work after Purdue loses in the first or second round to hear IU and UM fans? Heck no. Do I think that will continue? Heck no.

If he continues to improved he will regain his national respect. I also believe that it will be easier to turn those near misses we are seeing now into big gets on the recruiting trail in the future. When that happens he will win more in the NCAA. I think these go hand in hand.

I, like many, are not thrilled with where we have been but we also feel there are far too many worse choices out there and far too few better choices.

I respect your opinion and will not call you names just because I do not agree with it.

Signed a Kool-aide drinker.

"Six years of good to great regular season and NCAA success (2 or 3 wins each year) with a final ranking in the top 20 for 4 of those years and things were looking VERY good, not just average."

Refresh my memory. What year or years did a Painter coached team win 3 NCAA games?

 

[vilehoopster]

Six Pack Pete had a great post. Better than my original post, thought out and not an extreme like mine.

But on this quote,

"Then for two years the wheels fell off. We all know that and we can all point to reasons why the good and bad occurred but it does to all but very few coaches.

I truly believe if those two years proved to be the norm, then we would all be there right with you."

Those two years are when I absolutely turned sour on Painter. In a terrible, terrible year, when "the wheels
(fall) off," Purdue should never, never be LAST PLACE in the Big Ten. Never, with the wheels completely off should Purdue lose to Santa Clara (was that who it was?) at home in the whatever tournament that was, never. How is that possible, even with the wheels completely off. Never.

If the wheels come off completely, we should be bottom third of the Big Ten, not last place, easily beaten at home by Northwestern to secure last place. If the wheels come off, we should be in the NIT or I'm okay with a losing season, but LAST PLACE and beaten at home by Santa Clara? With the history of Purdue basketball (all-time Big Ten wins leader when Painter took over), to get beat at home by Santa Clara and beaten the next year by Northwestern to get last place, that is Hazell caliber results.

And at Purdue, his last two years (comparing expectations for football vs. Purdue's great basketball tradition), for the last two years he's been getting Danny Hope level success. That is just not good enough for me.

And I know when I talk about Purdue's history, people point out Keady's struggles right before Painter took over. But in the year he had as assistant and he was able to recruit the Baby Boilers, he fixed that. But since the Baby Boilers, Painter has proven to be exactly what IU fans have said he was, a one-class success story. Since then, he fell into the abyss (Hazell level coaching) and for the last two years Danny Hope level coaching.

When people ask who can we get better, I've said this over and over. Who can't we get? There are 50 coaches out at smaller schools who can achieve, at least, what Painter has achieved in his 11 years here ( and I would bet that none of them would ever come in last place). And, as per my prediction, I think the new AD is gonna agree with me.

 

[TC4THREE]

And, as per my prediction, I think the new AD is gonna agree with me.

I think you're going to be severely disappointed then because my read on Bobinski is that if Painter did what he did last year every single year and just won his first round game every other year then he'll be at Purdue for at least as long as Bobinski is. I think Bobinski has one major objective and that is the football program and then dealing with other coaching decisions only when they become necessary. I could be wrong but that's my take away from hearing him so far.

 

[BoiledSteel]

When people ask who can we get better, I've said this over and over. Who can't we get? There are 50 coaches out at smaller schools who can achieve, at least, what Painter has achieved in his 11 years here ( and I would bet that none of them would ever come in last place).

You have no way of knowing that. None. And that is what kills me, you want to fire a coach who has had success in the past and replace them with an known with no guarantee they will do better and your supporting line is they can do at least what Painter did in the same time frame? So, you're firing a coach to replace it with a coach to get the same results? That makes no sense whatsoever.

What your post clearly points out is that you want to replace Painter simply because you don't like him. It has nothing to do with his past record or potential but everything to do with your emotional take on him. So essentially, no foundation for a legitimate reason at all.

 

[vilehoopster]

We'll see. But he's not "winning his first round games". He hasn't won one in four years.

By the way, I just looked at the 2017 Recruiting Board post. Two more whiffs as of 4:30 PM Thursday afternoon. Now all the names being mentioned at not even to 150 players. You really don't think Bobinski isn't aware or care about stuff like that? We'll see.

 

[TheRealDealIsBack73]

Where has Matt Painter had success at where please where where where where where again where sweet sixteen is as far as he's been so again where has he had success. Recruits go by what you do in the tournament that's why we can't land none of the big fish you can spin it however you want but that is the reason. Success only counts in the NCAA tournament somebody said times have changed you're correct there kids go by what you do in the tournament. At least the good ones do. I know Michigan State lost in the first round last year but they've also been to several final fours and won a national championship something Purdue has never done.

 

[TheRealDealIsBack73]

Winning a national championship around here is getting to the Sweet 16

 

[vilehoopster]

"You have no way of knowing that. None. And that is what kills me, you want to fire a coach who has had success in the past and replace them with an known with no guarantee they will do better and your supporting line is they can do at least what Painter did in the same time frame? So, you're firing a coach to replace it with a coach to get the same results? That makes no sense whatsoever.

What your post clearly points out is that you want to replace Painter simply because you don't like him. It has nothing to do with his past record or potential but everything to do with your emotional take on him. So essentially, no foundation for a legitimate reason at all."

Boilersteel, do you check over and think over what you type? My point was that Painter's level of "success," as you call it, is so low, that these other coaches can do at least as well as Painter, so there is no risk in replacing Painter, so we might as well take the chance and replace him because the odds are that the next guy (whoever he is) will do much better.

Did you check your comment to me yesterday, when I said that recently the only time we been able to get a player that Michigan State wanted was when his guardian was a former Purdue athlete.

You can on and pointed out G-Rod III and Gary Harris. So you basically brought up that even when a Purdue recruit's parent are former Purdue athletes, Painter still can't recruit them. You helped my point of Painter's failing as a recruiter.

 

[TheRealDealIsBack73]

Either you people are clueless are you're related to Matt Painter. Maybe everybody on here supporting Matt Painter guess it could be him himself under a bunch of different names to make it look like there's a bunch of people supporting him. Maybe that's what it is because I can't see a real Purdue fan being happy on what's been going on here in the last 4 years. Last 4 years has been no better than the last 4 years in football. But you want that guy fired immediately and it's harder to build a football program then it is a basketball program. Expecially a football program when he took it over couldn't even beat a high school team.

 

[vilehoopster]

Therealdealback, you don't help my cause. This is supposed to be the intelligent giving back and forth of points and counterpoints.

You're hurting me here. Just go away.

 

[TC4THREE]

We'll see. By the way, I just looked at the 2017 Recruiting Board post. Two more whiffs as of 4:30 PM Thursday afternoon. Now all the names being mentioned at not even to 150 players. You really don't think Bobinski isn't aware or care about stuff like that? We'll see.

In one of his interviews he talked about recruiting and I was not left with the impression that he cared all that much about recruiting rankings so long as the coach could win with the players he recruited. If that is correct, I wouldn't bet on him making any sort of change anytime soon and given that he's 58 years old, I'm guessing he's not going to be around Purdue for more than 5-6 years although I could be wrong.

 

[DG10]

So here is where I am at. Not that anyone cares nor does it matter ultimately, but still this thread seems appropriate for this.

Basically for me it all boils down to what happens this season and in the tourney. If Purdue flames out then I will more than likely start to lean towards it is time to think about another coach. Now, before I am jumped that does NOT mean an insta-firing but more or less when the contract is done, we part ways.

First and foremost as Mathboy put it, I am a PURDUE support not a PAINTER supporter. I am the same way in regards to football as well in that I supported Hope because he was the head coach not because I was a Hope fan which is the same thing here. Painter has very good talent on this team right now with more than enough for a deep tourney run. If there is a first round exit again then barring a deep run after, when the contract is up it is time to think of another option.

Painter simply may not be a good recruiter. Nothing wrong with that because very few coaches are complete in every area, he just needs to find someone that is and get them on staff. Painter IS a good X's and O's coach and above average in the conference which usually is good enough, but we all want to see more than just a conference crown now.

Now if we exit the first round and have a sheer debacle of a season the following, then I might just have to jump on the replace him sooner rather than later bandwagon. That would just be as bad as what is happening with the football program IMO and we deserve better than that. But I am not near that thinking just yet.

Also I do not regret for a second my support of the team and standing by them and Painter even now. I want to wait and see how things play out because I have no way of knowing what the future holds for this team and Painter, none of us do. It would be the "Purdue way" for Painter to get fired only to land somewhere else and make it to the Final Four as things just seem to ironically happen for us that way for some reason.

I'm not a Kool-aid drinker, I am a "nursing a beer" drinker.

I'm optimistic for the future still, but if a couple things I mentioned above happen, my optimism will start to fade. If things tank to the point of regressing to the two bad seasons we had before, then that will change things for me dramatically.

Problem with that is that due to Morgan's kind parting gift, the contract is now not up for another 5 years...no way with another complete whiff in recruiting with a loaded class, a targeted class with years of time to put it together and a class that was loaded in-state and for which Purdue was a non-factor, followed by more NCAA tournament failure that it can go on for five more years.

 

[DG10]

That's the funny part. You have people that swear up and down on this board that he can neither recruit nor do x's and o's.

Well, I am pretty sure that they were ranked in the same neighborhood when they exited in the first round of the NCAA tournament...again. At least they got there, as he had not even managed that the couple of years prior.

He had a single stellar class...and one really solid class...that is the extent of his recruiting success in 11 years as the Head Coach.

 

[TC4THREE]

Well, I am pretty sure that they were ranked in the same neighborhood when they exited in the first round of the NCAA tournament...again. At least they got there, as he had not even managed that the couple of years prior.

He had a single stellar class...and one really solid class...that is the extent of his recruiting success in 11 years as the Head Coach.

If he's taking bad players and coaching them to the NCAA tournament then he's doing a pretty good coaching job regardless of when they are eliminated from it.

Or he's recruiting pretty well to get to the NCAA tournament in spite of his subpar coaching.

I don't agree with either stance but I don't see how critics can have it both ways.

 

[boilersallthewaynow]

I think you're going to be severely disappointed then because my read on Bobinski is that if Painter did what he did last year every single year and just won his first round game every other year then he'll be at Purdue for at least as long as Bobinski is. I think Bobinski has one major objective and that is the football program and then dealing with other coaching decisions only when they become necessary. I could be wrong but that's my take away from hearing him so far.

True, unfortunately that is the gold standard for Purdue.
I wish the athletic department really strived to win National Championships.
They are much too content with conservative fiscal outlays and the thrill of merely participating.
Given it's location , men's basketball ought to be an annual national power.
Not the case.
Leadership, vision, relentlessness, resources and priorities are too weak .
The Achilles heal of ultra conservative philosophy .

 

[New Pal Boiler]

True, unfortunately that is the gold standard for Purdue.
I wish the athletic department really strived to win National Championships.
They are much too content with conservative fiscal outlays and the thrill of merely participating.
Given it's location , men's basketball ought to be an annual national power.
Not the case.
Leadership, vision, relentlessness, resources and priorities are too weak .
The Achilles heal of ultra conservative philosophy .

Good is the enemy of great.

 

[DG10]

If he's taking bad players and coaching them to the NCAA tournament then he's doing a pretty good coaching job regardless of when they are eliminated from it.

Or he's recruiting pretty well to get to the NCAA tournament in spite of his subpar coaching.

I don't agree with either stance but I don't see how critics can have it both ways.

Again, with the minimal expectation of making the NCAA tournament being deemed successful, it is not hard to understand why it is that he has a virtual lifetime contract, never mind received a ridiculous extension from the lame (duck) AD on his way out the door.

Even at that, he failed to even reach that ridiculously low bar twice in the last four years, guiding teams to losing records in consecutive seasons, including a last place finish for the second time in his tenure at Purdue...so, either he had bad players and failed to coach them to the tournament as you suggest...or, he had recruited pretty well and his subpar coaching was too much to overcome and get to the tournament.

More importantly, even with managing to get the team there finally the past two years after having missed (and missed badly) the previous two, he failed to win a game both times.

He presently has created a situation where there is a crazy class imbalance that there should not be, and he has repeatedly failed to address it with recruiting, or known needs (some created by his previous recruiting failures or inability to develop those that he did successfully recruit).

He has proven to be a below average recruiter, and a guy that can win on the rare instance where he has had recruiting success...once due to a perfect storm of circumstance, and once due to the fact that his recruiting had been so poor previously that he was able to sell immediate playing time...in both of those instances, he failed to round out those two respective classes, and, more importantly, he failed to take advantage of the success that was achieved on the court and lead to some national recognition and acclaim.

 

[TC4THREE]

You can't be a bad recruiter and a bad coach and consistently take a team to the NCAA tournament no matter how you want to qualify it. I realize you're doing your best to not give any credit whatsoever but I think it really highlights the absurdity of that position. Making the NCAA tournament is a bar to reach. Not the top of the ladder but on the upper half. It's more significant than making a bowl game in my opinion and everyone liked to make a big deal about that when we went to a bunch of consecutive bowls under Tiller even though most weren't very noteworthy at all.

 

[mathboy]

Again, with the minimal expectation of making the NCAA tournament being deemed successful, it is not hard to understand why it is that he has a virtual lifetime contract, never mind received a ridiculous extension from the lame (duck) AD on his way out the door.

Even at that, he failed to even reach that ridiculously low bar twice in the last four years, guiding teams to losing records in consecutive seasons, including a last place finish for the second time in his tenure at Purdue...so, either he had bad players and failed to coach them to the tournament as you suggest...or, he had recruited pretty well and his subpar coaching was too much to overcome and get to the tournament.

More importantly, even with managing to get the team there finally the past two years after having missed (and missed badly) the previous two, he failed to win a game both times.

He presently has created a situation where there is a crazy class imbalance that there should not be, and he has repeatedly failed to address it with recruiting, or known needs (some created by his previous recruiting failures or inability to develop those that he did successfully recruit).

He has proven to be a below average recruiter, and a guy that can win on the rare instance where he has had recruiting success...once due to a perfect storm of circumstance, and once due to the fact that his recruiting had been so poor previously that he was able to sell immediate playing time...in both of those instances, he failed to round out those two respective classes, and, more importantly, he failed to take advantage of the success that was achieved on the court and lead to some national recognition and acclaim.

I dislike how selective you are, using only the past 4 years. Suggest you consider his whole time at Purdue when making such sweeping generalities as you have in the rest of your post. Of course, if you use all 11 years, your arguments just don't seem as persuasive.

 

[DG10]

You can't be a bad recruiter and a bad coach and consistently take a team to the NCAA tournament no matter how you want to qualify it. I realize you're doing your best to not give any credit whatsoever but I think it really highlights the absurdity of that position. Making the NCAA tournament is a bar to reach. Not the top of the ladder but on the upper half. It's more significant than making a bowl game in my opinion and everyone liked to make a big deal about that when we went to a bunch of consecutive bowls under Tiller even though most weren't very noteworthy at all.

I am not trying to qualify it in any way, other than that it is not only not any sort of tremendous accomplishment to get a team there, never mind to flame out once you do.

He got there four times (five if you count Hummel's extra year when he all but carried the team) on the backs of a tremendously talented team that was the only truly tremendous recruiting class that he has put together during his time, and again, it was only the result of perfect storm of circumstances...and it does not take away from his failure to ever have rounded that class out in successive years, or, to take advantage of the national recognition that team and the program had...much like he has done with the only other somewhat notable class that he has managed to assemble during 11 years as the Head Coach.

Making the NCAA tournament is a very low bar to reach, particularly for nationally relevant and competitive programs...I don't disagree that it is more significant than making a bowl game in light of how things are presently with respect to the bowl system, but when half the conference makes the tournament each year, it is hardly some stellar achievement either...and again, he failed to do it twice in the past four years...and if he does indeed whiff yet again in recruiting like he did on the heels of that initial tremendous class that he assembled, he will be back in the exact same situation after next year's class graduates.

He is a below average recruiter, and an average coach...he had a single class that is responsible for much of the overall success that he has had and for which he received much of the acclaim that he has, and then he overachieved two years ago and underachieved this past year with the next two best teams that he has managed to assemble...there is no genuine consistency, because he cannot consistently recruit, and because he is not a good enough coach (never mind does not have a remotely close to good enough staff) to overcome the below average recruiting.

 

[DG10]

I dislike how selective you are, using only the past 4 years. Suggest you consider his whole time at Purdue when making such sweeping generalities as you have in the rest of your post. Of course, if you use all 11 years, your arguments just don't seem as persuasive.

Per my post just before this in response to TC4THREE, I have no problem at all considering his entire time at Purdue...he has managed one stellar recruiting class, and one good recruiting class...that is it, over the course of 11 years...he has missed repeatedly on in-state national talent, and in a year in which the in-state class was loaded perhaps more so that at any other time, he was a total non-factor and came up completely empty...in a year in which he saved and banked scholarships for.

He is an underachiever...as a recruiter certainly, but as a coach as well...he rode the backs of one stellar recruiting class in conjunction with his best coaching staff to some modest national acclaim and success...that is it. He underachieved off the floor and on it following, and this recruiting class is shaping up to be the biggest failure to date...the mere fact that he whiffed on the in-state talent speaks volumes, never mind that Izzo for at least the third time took his primary target away from him in just the past five years.

 

[BoilerBiker]

He presently has created a situation where there is a crazy class imbalance that there should not be, and he has repeatedly failed to address it with recruiting, or known needs (some created by his previous recruiting failures or inability to develop those that he did successfully recruit).
.

several years of class imbalance, still one of the larger issues we are dealing w/imo also.
four-year seniors/contributors by season: 2015 - zero, 2016 - two, 2017 - zero.
if you want or need to rely on continuity and 4 year players within your program rather than 5 star recruits/early defectors, that makes it an extremely difficult task at those rates.

apparently selling immediate playing time is not always the most critical thing for a number of recruits in recent years.

 

[TC4THREE]

I am not trying to qualify it in any way, other than that it is not only not any sort of tremendous accomplishment to get a team there, never mind to flame out once you do.

He got there four times (five if you count Hummel's extra year when he all but carried the team) on the backs of a tremendously talented team that was the only truly tremendous recruiting class that he has put together during his time, and again, it was only the result of perfect storm of circumstances...and it does not take away from his failure to ever have rounded that class out in successive years, or, to take advantage of the national recognition that team and the program had...much like he has done with the only other somewhat notable class that he has managed to assemble during 11 years as the Head Coach.

Making the NCAA tournament is a very low bar to reach, particularly for nationally relevant and competitive programs...I don't disagree that it is more significant than making a bowl game in light of how things are presently with respect to the bowl system, but when half the conference makes the tournament each year, it is hardly some stellar achievement either...and again, he failed to do it twice in the past four years...and if he does indeed whiff yet again in recruiting like he did on the heels of that initial tremendous class that he assembled, he will be back in the exact same situation after next year's class graduates.

He is a below average recruiter, and an average coach...he had a single class that is responsible for much of the overall success that he has had and for which he received much of the acclaim that he has, and then he overachieved two years ago and underachieved this past year with the next two best teams that he has managed to assemble...there is no genuine consistency, because he cannot consistently recruit, and because he is not a good enough coach (never mind does not have a remotely close to good enough staff) to overcome the below average recruiting.

I really don't think he has whiffed on any class except the 2011 class. Other than that, he has brought in useful pieces every class. If you're expecting a Baby Boilers class every year or a 5 star recruit every year then I think that's pretty unrealistic. There's a reason 3 Baby Boilers have their numbers in the rafters. They're special and you don't get them every year, or even every few years.

The two years without a tournament I think you can pin on that 2011 class but more than that on the selfish, me-first play of a certain point guard in those seasons. And yes, Painter was responsible for bringing him on board and it was a mistake on his part but I think he would be the first to admit that he didn't handle that well and has learned from it. At any rate, that's years in the past at this point and we've been trending upwards since. I'm far more interested in what we are able to do over the next 4 years and what happened 4 years ago. I'll take my chances.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I really don't think he has whiffed on any class except the 2011 class. Other than that, he has brought in useful pieces every class. If you're expecting a Baby Boilers class every year or a 5 star recruit every year then I think that's pretty unrealistic. There's a reason 3 Baby Boilers have their numbers in the rafters. They're special and you don't get them every year, or even every few years.

The two years without a tournament I think you can pin on that 2011 class but more than that on the selfish, me-first play of a certain point guard in those seasons. And yes, Painter was responsible for bringing him on board and it was a mistake on his part but I think he would be the first to admit that he didn't handle that well and has learned from it. At any rate, that's years in the past at this point and we've been trending upwards since. I'm far more interested in what we are able to do over the next 4 years and what happened 4 years ago. I'll take my chances.

2009, 2010, and 2013 classes were not good either. Out of 10 players, only Byrd and Terone did much.