Tick, tick, tick to 2021, Kool-Aid Drinkers.

[BoilerMaker P]

I think the problem with the Baby Boilers class was that it set a very high bar. And while I understand that if Hummel doesn't tear two ACLs in back to back years, then this argument probably doesn't happen each year because I'm positive they would have been in the Final Four in 2010 at least and perhaps national champions. We all know how that turned out though.

A serious issue that arose after Etwaun and JJ graduated, was that there was absolutely no building on the successes of those teams. I believe "the wheels fell off" was the terminology used to describe those seasons. I have to agree with the poster who said that even in a terrible year, Purdue should not finish last in the B1G and be beat at home by Santa Clara in the CBI.

Now, add to that the brutality of the Crossroads Classic failures (Purdue still has not beat ND or Butler in that f@#%ing thing), mostly poor showings in the B1G tournament, losses to Midwest mid-major programs like UC and Xavier coupled with of course the ongoing battle with IU and struggles with MSU spells out trouble for recruiting kids around here.

Then, there's the absolutely mind-boggling collapses in the late minutes of NCAA tournament games in the past two years that just defy all logic.

Finally, and perhaps most unfair and cruel, is that the football program is just an absolute dumpster fire and Purdue fans are desperate for some form of success in a major sport.

I think it is completely fair to hold the head coach accountable for the program. The alums and fans cannot be expected to buy tickets, travel up to West Lafayette, buy the merch, and then be kicked in the groin repeatedly. So, I guess in the end I will be cheering for the Boilermakers like I do every year just like most everybody on here, but I can't say that seeds of doubt in Matt Painter weren't planted in my mind really for the first time after the Little Rock game. More disappointment like that and you risk completely destroying the athletic program at Purdue.

 

[TC4THREE]

2009, 2010, and 2013 classes were not good either. Out of 10 players, only Byrd and Terone did much.

Grade these past five classes:

2016 - Carsen Edwards, (Spike).
2015 - Swanigan, Cline, (Hill)
2014 - PJ, Dakota, Edwards, Taylor, Haas, (Octeus)
2013 - Bryson, Kendall, Basil, (Carter, Peck)
2012 - Davis, AJ, RJ, and Simpson

2016 - I'll give it a B. What we got looks really good. Just needed at least one more good player to fill it out.
2015 - I'll go B+. Got Indiana Mr Basketball and McDonalds AA five star to make all the recruiting ranking worshipers happy and added one of the top shooters in the country. Only reason this isn't an A is because we didn't bring in an athletic wing player or quality point guard.
2014 - A+ This class might make up 4/5 of our starting lineup the next two years. Two players that people here are speculating could leave early (although I doubt it). Taylor may prove to be valuable before all is said and done as well.
2013 - I'll say this was maybe a C-. Funny because this was a class that most of us LOVED on paper and probably will yield the least of any of these. Kendall was decent for 2 years but flaked when competition presented itself. Bryson's game never really worked here. He didn't draw much attention with his transfer either. I hope he has success at IPFW but even if he does that's a big step down from the Big Ten. Basil so far has been a role player at best. Hope to see that change this season.
2012 - B. Don't know how to account for Simpson's injury but obviously Davis and Hammons were studs for us and two top defensive players in the conference as upperclassmen. Ronnie Johnson was a poison pill that we swallowed for two years which drops this class from an A to a B in my book.

Using my grades, I have the recruiting over the past 5 years at a 3.0 or B average. Not great but pretty solid. I'm sure some will make cases for lower grades on some of these but I felt I was pretty fair.

Also note that each class has changes as they develop. 2012 was when everyone was upset about missing Gary Harris I think but we still got a couple of really good players there. Everyone thought 2013 was going to be a killer class and they have proven to be pretty disappointing. I don't recall a ton of excitement for 2014. Most people liked Vince and Haas and they haven't disappointed but I think the contributions from PJ and Dakota have exceeded expectations and all of them probably have two more years to play.

I'd say to date, 2015 was the only class to come in and be mostly what people expected it to be even though they've barely started it looks like Swanigan is a big factor in the post like we thought and Cline appears poised to set records for 3 point shooting at Purdue.

So keep this in mind before freaking out about 2017. We don't know who we'll end up with yet and even when we find out it has more often than not ended up very differently than we expected at the beginning.

 

[Mr.Hoop]

2014 - PJ, Dakota, Edwards, Taylor, Haas, (Octeus)

2014 - A+ This class might make up 4/5 of our starting lineup the next two years. Two players that people here are speculating could leave early (although I doubt it). Taylor may prove to be valuable before all is said and done as well.

Curious as to how you'd grade a class which included an All-B1G first team player or All-American at any level.... I like your grading curve

 

[TC4THREE]

2014 - PJ, Dakota, Edwards, Taylor, Haas, (Octeus)

2014 - A+ This class might make up 4/5 of our starting lineup the next two years. Two players that people here are speculating could leave early (although I doubt it). Taylor may prove to be valuable before all is said and done as well.

Curious as to how you'd grade a class which included an All-B1G first team player or All-American at any level.... I like your grading curve

Didn't Hammons end up first team all conference last year? I thought he was. Any class like 2012 that yielded Hammons AND Davis has to be a good class normally worthy of an A. Given that I think RJ was the reason we tanked for two years I had to knock it down a letter grade just because of that. He was negative value.

 

[Mr.Hoop]

Didn't Hammons end up first team all conference last year? I thought he was. Any class like 2012 that yielded Hammons AND Davis has to be a good class normally worthy of an A. Given that I think RJ was the reason we tanked for two years I had to knock it down a letter grade just because of that. He was negative value.

I referred to the 2014 class which you graded at an A+. No AJ or Davis, some good talent but perhaps that grade was a type-o...

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Didn't Hammons end up first team all conference last year? I thought he was. Any class like 2012 that yielded Hammons AND Davis has to be a good class normally worthy of an A. Given that I think RJ was the reason we tanked for two years I had to knock it down a letter grade just because of that. He was negative value.

Yes, AJH was first team (not unanimous) and DPOY. RD was DPOY and hon. mention in 2015. Candidly, I'd grade the class more toward a B+, but I am used to harder curves. RJ and Simpson were good recruits at the time of signing......so ultimately, that's a hard class to rate IMO.

I think the recruiting has improved, but the question remains if CMP can land the "additional" player or two needed to get to the next level.

There's merit to the argument (at least to me) that at SOME point......CMP has to be able to close better on SOME of these more highly-rated kids. It's a tough challenge going head-to-head with Tom Izzo for everyone in the conference....but so far, CMP has lost all of the big battles.

We'll see what happens with X Tillman and N Eastern.

Either way, here's looking forward to an exciting season.....

 

[TC4THREE]

I referred to the 2014 class which you graded at an A+. No AJ or Davis, some good talent but perhaps that grade was a type-o...

No typo. 2014 has been a great class for us and they are only halfway through but we're going to see a ton of starts from that class over the next two years. My guess is they'll be starting PJ, Dakota, Vince, and Haas in most games next season and likely the season after as well. Also, I think Vince has a great shot at first-team honors this year and potentially the following season as well.

 

[TC4THREE]

There's merit to the argument (at least to me) that at SOME point......CMP has to be able to close better on SOME of these more highly-rated kids.

He did. Just last year. Are we mandating a five star every year now?

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

He did. Just last year. Are we mandating a five star every year now?

No, not every year.....and I think this would be lessened if CS ends up staying beyond this year, but I don't expect that.

Poorly stated on my part, TC; fair point.......more frequently would have been the better way to express my point in order to better "knit" balanced teams together.

I'm more inclined to see where things stand after all the commitments have occurred.

I

 

[Inspector100]

Grade these past five classes:

2016 - Carsen Edwards, (Spike).
2015 - Swanigan, Cline, (Hill)
2014 - PJ, Dakota, Edwards, Taylor, Haas, (Octeus)
2013 - Bryson, Kendall, Basil, (Carter, Peck)
2012 - Davis, AJ, RJ, and Simpson

2016 - I'll give it a B. What we got looks really good. Just needed at least one more good player to fill it out.
2015 - I'll go B+. Got Indiana Mr Basketball and McDonalds AA five star to make all the recruiting ranking worshipers happy and added one of the top shooters in the country. Only reason this isn't an A is because we didn't bring in an athletic wing player or quality point guard.
2014 - A+ This class might make up 4/5 of our starting lineup the next two years. Two players that people here are speculating could leave early (although I doubt it). Taylor may prove to be valuable before all is said and done as well.
2013 - I'll say this was maybe a C-. Funny because this was a class that most of us LOVED on paper and probably will yield the least of any of these. Kendall was decent for 2 years but flaked when competition presented itself. Bryson's game never really worked here. He didn't draw much attention with his transfer either. I hope he has success at IPFW but even if he does that's a big step down from the Big Ten. Basil so far has been a role player at best. Hope to see that change this season.
2012 - B. Don't know how to account for Simpson's injury but obviously Davis and Hammons were studs for us and two top defensive players in the conference as upperclassmen. Ronnie Johnson was a poison pill that we swallowed for two years which drops this class from an A to a B in my book.

Using my grades, I have the recruiting over the past 5 years at a 3.0 or B average. Not great but pretty solid. I'm sure some will make cases for lower grades on some of these but I felt I was pretty fair.

Also note that each class has changes as they develop. 2012 was when everyone was upset about missing Gary Harris I think but we still got a couple of really good players there. Everyone thought 2013 was going to be a killer class and they have proven to be pretty disappointing. I don't recall a ton of excitement for 2014. Most people liked Vince and Haas and they haven't disappointed but I think the contributions from PJ and Dakota have exceeded expectations and all of them probably have two more years to play.

I'd say to date, 2015 was the only class to come in and be mostly what people expected it to be even though they've barely started it looks like Swanigan is a big factor in the post like we thought and Cline appears poised to set records for 3 point shooting at Purdue.

So keep this in mind before freaking out about 2017. We don't know who we'll end up with yet and even when we find out it has more often than not ended up very differently than we expected at the beginning.

I thought the last year Simpson played, the team was on path to make the NCAA tournament. Simpson was getting solid pt and I felt improving greatly as the season went along. His illness hurt our teams performance a lot.

At the same time, Sterling Carter had taken over as the starting pg and the offense was improving as the games went along. His injury, I felt, was the one that hurt the most because the team lost the leadership and pg skills he provided. At that point RJ took over pg play and the offense went into the tank.

So I like the class as a whole better than some on here, recognizing that there was one blemish that was being covered till the loss of those two players. Those are my observations.

 

[smalltownIL]

You have no way of knowing that. None. And that is what kills me, you want to fire a coach who has had success in the past and replace them with an known with no guarantee they will do better and your supporting line is they can do at least what Painter did in the same time frame? So, you're firing a coach to replace it with a coach to get the same results? That makes no sense whatsoever.

What your post clearly points out is that you want to replace Painter simply because you don't like him. It has nothing to do with his past record or potential but everything to do with your emotional take on him. So essentially, no foundation for a legitimate reason at all.

In my case, not an emotional dislike, just a rational analysis that he is as good as he's going to be. That is: solid & adequate, not exceptional. A proven inability to land the top level of talent, despite expending considerable(for example Malik Williams and Jaren Jackson). A stubborn resistance to adjusting to known weaknesses in the team (for example, Iowa shreds us with pressure and we fail to adequately adjust for the whole rest of the season. I get the talent on hand but to not even show a different approach to pressure?).

Why not take a swing? go get a hot up and comer who appeals to the kids you need to get 2 weeks deep in the tourney (and I don't mean a Caliperi type, ethically challenged recruiter). At worst, you fall on your face and you start over. there's no shame in failing, just in not trying. and for most of my 50 years of following Purdue athletics, that "afraid to fail, let's be safe" approach hasn't produced much. No hate on Painter at all, just the realization that you've already seen as good as it will get with him.

 

[Inspector100]

In my case, not an emotional dislike, just a rational analysis that he is as good as he's going to be. That is: solid & adequate, not exceptional. A proven inability to land the top level of talent, despite expending considerable(for example Malik Williams and Jaren Jackson). A stubborn resistance to adjusting to known weaknesses in the team (for example, Iowa shreds us with pressure and we fail to adequately adjust for the whole rest of the season. I get the talent on hand but to not even show a different approach to pressure?).

Why not take a swing? go get a hot up and comer who appeals to the kids you need to get 2 weeks deep in the tourney (and I don't mean a Caliperi type, ethically challenged recruiter). At worst, you fall on your face and you start over. there's no shame in failing, just in not trying. and for most of my 50 years of following Purdue athletics, that "afraid to fail, let's be safe" approach hasn't produced much. No hate on Painter at all, just the realization that you've already seen as good as it will get with him.

You mentioned that Caliperi is ethically challenged. We haven't heard anything controversial from Lexington since the year he was hired. At least I haven't heard anything. Now Louisville, that is a horse of another color. So someone help me with things Caliperi has done in Lexington to be cast as a bad apple.

 

[TC4THREE]

You mentioned that Caliperi is ethically challenged. We haven't heard anything controversial from Lexington since the year he was hired. At least I haven't heard anything. Now Louisville, that is a horse of another color. So someone help me with things Caliperi has done in Lexington to be cast as a bad apple.

I think everyone just assumes that since he had problems at previous stops and Kentucky had been in trouble for things previously that the combination of the two probably means something is going on. The thing people don't take into account is that they probably don't need to cheat right now. He has a reputation of delivering kids to the NBA. I mean didn't they have 5 players get drafted in the first round one year? If I had a son with NBA potential and that was his dream, that's where I'd encourage him to go. You don't even have be exceptional. Just being talented and blending in there is enough to get you drafted high.

 

[smalltownIL]

You mentioned that Caliperi is ethically challenged. We haven't heard anything controversial from Lexington since the year he was hired. At least I haven't heard anything. Now Louisville, that is a horse of another color. So someone help me with things Caliperi has done in Lexington to be cast as a bad apple.

Just because nothing has emerged doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Leopards don't lose their spots, as they say. And UK supporters are even more skilled than World Wide Wes at making sure their boys are taken care of. UK's brand helps a lot too in him not having to bend things as far as he did at UMass and Memphis. to use an analogy, an alcoholic is still an alcoholic even when not actively drinking. But, to quote John Popper, perhaps I'm a little cynical.