Swanigan's 2nd half rest against Iowa State

[TC4THREE]

If we're going to discuss it, let's at least deal in facts. I've copied the game log below. After looking at it, I kind of feel a little differently about it.

First of all, the Iowa State run while Swanigan was out was really about 70 seconds long. Swanigan exited the game at the 12:51 mark with Purdue up 14. Purdue's lead at the 10:41 mark was actually 15 points so it wasn't until that point that Iowa State really began their run. Then....

Monte Morris hits a jumper at 10:30 (13 point game)
PJ turnover at 10:07 at which point there was a dead ball and an opportunity to sub.
Donovan Jackson hits a 3 at 9:53 (10 point game) and I believe that's when Swanigan got up to check in at the next dead ball.
Mathias missed a 3 at 9:32 and Iowa State rebounds
Monte Morris hits a 3 at 9:26 (7 point game) prompting Purdue to take a timeout which gets Swanigan back in the game.

There were 4 real opportunities in between the 12-minute TV timeout and the Purdue timeout to sub Swanigan back in.

1. Back side of the TV timeout at 11:42 with Purdue leading by 12 and Iowa State ball.
2. After the Haas 3-pt play to put us up 15 with 11:23 left. Note at this point our lead was actually greater than when Swanigan subbed out.
3. After PJ's turnover at 10:07 at which point Vince subbed back in and we were still up 13.
4. After the Iowa State 3 pointer to cut it to 10 at 9:53 (would've required a timeout and I'm pretty sure Swanigan was set to check back in at the next dead ball at this point).

Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure everyone has an opinion on when they should've made that substitution but that 8-0 run came on 3 Iowa State possessions over just about 60 seconds. We were ok for the first 2.5 minutes of game time that Swanigan was out for.


http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2016-2017/purdue34.html

13:11 58-44 H 14 GOOD! FT SHOT by Morris, Monte

SUB IN : Haas, Isaac 13:11
SUB OUT: Edwards, Vincent 13:11

TURNOVR by Edwards, Carsen 12:51 STEAL by Morris, Monte

SUB IN : Albrecht, Spike 12:51
SUB OUT: Swanigan, Caleb 12:51

12:36 58-46 H 12 GOOD! DUNK by Bowie, Darrell [PNT]
12:36 ASSIST by Morris, Monte

MISSED 3 PTR by Mathias, Dakota 12:05
REBOUND (OFF) by Haas, Isaac 12:05
MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards, Carsen 12:01 REBOUND (DEF) by (DEADBALL)

11:42 TIMEOUT MEDIA

REBOUND (DEF) by Mathias, Dakota 11:37 MISSED 3 PTR by Mitrou-Long, Naz

GOOD! LAYUP by Haas, Isaac [PNT] 11:23 60-46 H 14
ASSIST by Mathias, Dakota 11:23
GOOD! FT SHOT by Haas, Isaac 11:23 61-46 H 15 FOUL by Bowie, Darrell (P2T4)

11:07 61-48 H 13 GOOD! LAYUP by Thomas, Matt [PNT]

MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards, Carsen 10:49 REBOUND (DEF) by Bowie, Darrell

10:44 TURNOVR by Bowie, Darrell

STEAL by Edwards, Carsen 10:43
GOOD! LAYUP by Edwards, Carsen [FB/PNT] 10:41 63-48 H 15

10:30 63-50 H 13 GOOD! JUMPER by Morris, Monte

TURNOVR by Thompson, P.J. 10:07

SUB IN : Edwards, Vincent 10:07 SUB IN : Burton, Deonte
SUB OUT: Haas, Isaac 10:07 SUB OUT: Bowie, Darrell

09:53 63-53 H 10 GOOD! 3 PTR by Jackson, Donovan

MISSED 3 PTR by Mathias, Dakota 09:32 REBOUND (DEF) by Mitrou-Long, Naz

09:26 63-56 H 7 GOOD! 3 PTR by Morris, Monte [FB]

TIMEOUT 30sec 09:25
SUB IN : Swanigan, Caleb 09:25
SUB OUT: Albrecht, Spike 09:25

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

everyone saw the body language change when swani went out on both teams. You could even see the look of alarm in the assistants as biggie was pleading to be put in. Then when biggie did get back in the game, he was pressing too hard and turned it over. He should have been back in after the media timeout, when he wanted to come in. He didn't need the rest. He trains like a mad man.

That said, I'm over it and hope we learn and don't press our luck again.

Oh and sincere thanks for the timeline. Very well done.

 

[SIBoiler2]

Yep, he wanted in. Actually he didn't want to go out. That being said, I'm gonna trust the coach on this one. He sees what he sees and we and the players see what we WANT to see. Having him fresh at the end had a large part in the final outcome. Train like a mad man or not a fresh Biggie is worth three of anybody else.

 

[BoilerGal74]

everyone saw the body language change when swani went out on both teams. You could even see the look of alarm in the assistants as biggie was pleading to be put in. Then when biggie did get back in the game, he was pressing too hard and turned it over. He should have been back in after the media timeout, when he wanted to come in. He didn't need the rest. He trains like a mad man.

That said, I'm over it and hope we learn and don't press our luck again.

Oh and sincere thanks for the timeline. Very well done.

In all fairness, I don't think you can assume the look of concern in the Asst. Coaches was because Biggie was on the bench and should have been in the game, it could just have well been because Biggie wanted in and they knew he needed a little time out.( unless your crystal ball is working better than mine)

 

[rustcr]

In all fairness, I don't think you can assume the look of concern in the Asst. Coaches was because Biggie was on the bench and should have been in the game, it could just have well been because Biggie wanted in and they knew he needed a little time out.( unless your crystal ball is working better than mine)

Painter himself admitted that he left Biggie out too long. Either way. Lesson learned. It may help in making substitutions in the next game.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

In all fairness, I don't think you can assume the look of concern in the Asst. Coaches was because Biggie was on the bench and should have been in the game, it could just have well been because Biggie wanted in and they knew he needed a little time out.( unless your crystal ball is working better than mine)

Yep, he wanted in. Actually he didn't want to go out. That being said, I'm gonna trust the coach on this one. He sees what he sees and we and the players see what we WANT to see. Having him fresh at the end had a large part in the final outcome. Train like a mad man or not a fresh Biggie is worth three of anybody else.

Let's say you guys are right and I'm wrong. Do you think it was successful? Biggie came in and had TOs and missed shots and fouls until around 4:30. I think he had 1 made shot in that 5 minute stretch. Was stressed out fresh biggie worth it? Seemed to me it made the problem worse.

 

[todd brewster]

If we're going to discuss it, let's at least deal in facts. I've copied the game log below. After looking at it, I kind of feel a little differently about it.
First of all, the Iowa State run while Swanigan was out was really about 70 seconds long. Swanigan exited the game at the 12:51 mark with Purdue up 14. Purdue's lead at the 10:41 mark was actually 15 points so it wasn't until that point that Iowa State really began their run. Then....
Monte Morris hits a jumper at 10:30 (13 point game)
PJ turnover at 10:07 at which point there was a dead ball and an opportunity to sub.
Donovan Jackson hits a 3 at 9:53 (10 point game) and I believe that's when Swanigan got up to check in at the next dead ball.
Mathias missed a 3 at 9:32 and Iowa State rebounds
Monte Morris hits a 3 at 9:26 (7 point game) prompting Purdue to take a timeout which gets Swanigan back in the game.
There were 4 real opportunities in between the 12-minute TV timeout and the Purdue timeout to sub Swanigan back in.
1. Back side of the TV timeout at 11:42 with Purdue leading by 12 and Iowa State ball.
2. After the Haas 3-pt play to put us up 15 with 11:23 left. Note at this point our lead was actually greater than when Swanigan subbed out.
3. After PJ's turnover at 10:07 at which point Vince subbed back in and we were still up 13.
4. After the Iowa State 3 pointer to cut it to 10 at 9:53 (would've required a timeout and I'm pretty sure Swanigan was set to check back in at the next dead ball at this point).
Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure everyone has an opinion on when they should've made that substitution but that 8-0 run came on 3 Iowa State possessions over just about 60 seconds. We were ok for the first 2.5 minutes of game time that Swanigan was out for.
http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2016-2017/purdue34.html
13:11 58-44 H 14 GOOD! FT SHOT by Morris, Monte
SUB IN : Haas, Isaac 13:11
SUB OUT: Edwards, Vincent 13:11
TURNOVR by Edwards, Carsen 12:51 STEAL by Morris, Monte
SUB IN : Albrecht, Spike 12:51
SUB OUT: Swanigan, Caleb 12:51
12:36 58-46 H 12 GOOD! DUNK by Bowie, Darrell [PNT]
12:36 ASSIST by Morris, Monte
MISSED 3 PTR by Mathias, Dakota 12:05
REBOUND (OFF) by Haas, Isaac 12:05
MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards, Carsen 12:01 REBOUND (DEF) by (DEADBALL)
11:42 TIMEOUT MEDIA
REBOUND (DEF) by Mathias, Dakota 11:37 MISSED 3 PTR by Mitrou-Long, Naz
GOOD! LAYUP by Haas, Isaac [PNT] 11:23 60-46 H 14
ASSIST by Mathias, Dakota 11:23
GOOD! FT SHOT by Haas, Isaac 11:23 61-46 H 15 FOUL by Bowie, Darrell (P2T4)
11:07 61-48 H 13 GOOD! LAYUP by Thomas, Matt [PNT]
MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards, Carsen 10:49 REBOUND (DEF) by Bowie, Darrell
10:44 TURNOVR by Bowie, Darrell
STEAL by Edwards, Carsen 10:43
GOOD! LAYUP by Edwards, Carsen [FB/PNT] 10:41 63-48 H 15
10:30 63-50 H 13 GOOD! JUMPER by Morris, Monte
TURNOVR by Thompson, P.J. 10:07
SUB IN : Edwards, Vincent 10:07 SUB IN : Burton, Deonte
SUB OUT: Haas, Isaac 10:07 SUB OUT: Bowie, Darrell
09:53 63-53 H 10 GOOD! 3 PTR by Jackson, Donovan
MISSED 3 PTR by Mathias, Dakota 09:32 REBOUND (DEF) by Mitrou-Long, Naz
09:26 63-56 H 7 GOOD! 3 PTR by Morris, Monte [FB]
TIMEOUT 30sec 09:25
SUB IN : Swanigan, Caleb 09:25
SUB OUT: Albrecht, Spike 09:25

Thank you for posting this and you are right, we were not hurt when Biggie first came out of the game, but were hurt later.
I thought Haas did a great job in the first half and when he was in was when we took control of the game. I was disappointed that Haas did not start the 2nd half and I thought he did not play as well in the second, because of the substitutions.

However, according to this. We went downhill AFTER we took Haas out.

 

[FirstDownB]

It is funny no one was complaining about Painter's "screw up" in the first half when Biggie was on the bench for the exact same 3 minute stretch. The timing of ISU's run was just unfortunate. Biggie was on the bench for all of 6 minutes in a frenetic paced game that had relatively few breaks in the action. If not for the video reviews, it would have been worse.

The bigger issue is we had no answer on defense for Burton when they went small. But it all worked out in the end!

 

[buffboiler]

"The Rebound", or so called swatting the Mahias' free throw miss and subsequent possession of the ball by Biggie, was probably due to not as tired legs as Burton's.

 

[BoilerGal74]

Let's say you guys are right and I'm wrong. Do you think it was successful? Biggie came in and had TOs and missed shots and fouls until around 4:30. I think he had 1 made shot in that 5 minute stretch. Was stressed out fresh biggie worth it? Seemed to me it made the problem worse.

I certainly am not communicating my point very well. Yes, Painter said he tried to get him in sooner. Did I personally want him back in the game sooner, absolutely. Did my crystal ball work to tell me motives or what might have happened and why either way...Sorry mine was clouded over. But since I don't have any of those answers I choose to focus on the big picture. For me that means the coaches and the players did a hell of a job...

 

[SIBoiler2]

Let's say you guys are right and I'm wrong. Do you think it was successful? Biggie came in and had TOs and missed shots and fouls until around 4:30. I think he had 1 made shot in that 5 minute stretch. Was stressed out fresh biggie worth it? Seemed to me it made the problem worse.

OK, I'll let you handpick any 5 minutes of the season. Biggie can be refreshed or worn out. Doesn't matter. Show me the perfect 5 minutes where he had no misses, not turnovers and no fouls. How many of those perfect 5 minutes are there. Basically your argument is just an argument for the sake of arguing and neither of us can tell today whether the run would have happened if he had been left in or not or if his returning 8 minutes earlier would have had any effect at all. It is what it is and to just argue because you want to damn Painter for this is stupid. When it's all said and done all we'll remember in a few months is that it was an exciting win.

 

[02Boilermaker]

Thanks for the timeline, TC. At the time, the biggest head-scratcher to me was putting Vince in without Biggie or Haas (10:07 mark).

CMP's post-game quotes about knowing ISU would be forced to go small leads me to believe he was prepared for the situation. It seems he knew Biggie would have trouble guarding Burton in space like that, and he tried Vince at the "5" when neither Caleb nor Haas was in foul trouble.

Of course, ISU hit those back-2-back 3s right after Vincent re-entered the game. I think CMP simply over-thought that situation instead of sticking with what was working the whole game up to that point. As I believe he's done a better job of riding "hot" line-ups this season, I don't expect to see him make the same sort of mistake against Kansas.

 

[PistolPt]

Absolutely spot on. Biggie doesn't rest we win that game and heading to Sweet 16. No credit to Iowa St for a great comeback, we gave them that game. If Painter and this team can't put forth a Villanova 85 effort against Georgetown game after game, we don't deserve to play in second week of tourney.

Let it go, let it go can't hold it back anymore, let it go.......

Kidding folks, sorry. Great game, great week and great to be playing in the second week. Boiler Up!

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

OK, I'll let you handpick any 5 minutes of the season. Biggie can be refreshed or worn out. Doesn't matter. Show me the perfect 5 minutes where he had no misses, not turnovers and no fouls. How many of those perfect 5 minutes are there. Basically your argument is just an argument for the sake of arguing and neither of us can tell today whether the run would have happened if he had been left in or not or if his returning 8 minutes earlier would have had any effect at all. It is what it is and to just argue because you want to damn Painter for this is stupid. When it's all said and done all we'll remember in a few months is that it was an exciting win.

basically the first 15 minutes of the game. I think he missed one shot. lol...cmon man. quit being defensive. I'm not damning anyone.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Painter himself admitted that he left Biggie out too long. Either way. Lesson learned. It may help in making substitutions in the next game.

Agreed here. I think the big thing Painter improved substantially this season was substitution patterns. I think that was a major issue with a lot of his detractors and those that like him but realize he has some flaws (like all coaches). This was the first time we really saw it come to the forefront again since the downfall against UALR...some times when the fire is the hottest, people revert back to what they know. Hopefully, as some have said, he learns from it because his patterns throughout the year have been pretty spot on (and really were in that ISU game until that point).

 

[tjreese]

If we're going to discuss it, let's at least deal in facts. I've copied the game log below. After looking at it, I kind of feel a little differently about it.

First of all, the Iowa State run while Swanigan was out was really about 70 seconds long. Swanigan exited the game at the 12:51 mark with Purdue up 14. Purdue's lead at the 10:41 mark was actually 15 points so it wasn't until that point that Iowa State really began their run. Then....

Monte Morris hits a jumper at 10:30 (13 point game)
PJ turnover at 10:07 at which point there was a dead ball and an opportunity to sub.
Donovan Jackson hits a 3 at 9:53 (10 point game) and I believe that's when Swanigan got up to check in at the next dead ball.
Mathias missed a 3 at 9:32 and Iowa State rebounds
Monte Morris hits a 3 at 9:26 (7 point game) prompting Purdue to take a timeout which gets Swanigan back in the game.

There were 4 real opportunities in between the 12-minute TV timeout and the Purdue timeout to sub Swanigan back in.

1. Back side of the TV timeout at 11:42 with Purdue leading by 12 and Iowa State ball.
2. After the Haas 3-pt play to put us up 15 with 11:23 left. Note at this point our lead was actually greater than when Swanigan subbed out.
3. After PJ's turnover at 10:07 at which point Vince subbed back in and we were still up 13.
4. After the Iowa State 3 pointer to cut it to 10 at 9:53 (would've required a timeout and I'm pretty sure Swanigan was set to check back in at the next dead ball at this point).

Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure everyone has an opinion on when they should've made that substitution but that 8-0 run came on 3 Iowa State possessions over just about 60 seconds. We were ok for the first 2.5 minutes of game time that Swanigan was out for.


http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2016-2017/purdue34.html

13:11 58-44 H 14 GOOD! FT SHOT by Morris, Monte

SUB IN : Haas, Isaac 13:11
SUB OUT: Edwards, Vincent 13:11

TURNOVR by Edwards, Carsen 12:51 STEAL by Morris, Monte

SUB IN : Albrecht, Spike 12:51
SUB OUT: Swanigan, Caleb 12:51

12:36 58-46 H 12 GOOD! DUNK by Bowie, Darrell [PNT]
12:36 ASSIST by Morris, Monte

MISSED 3 PTR by Mathias, Dakota 12:05
REBOUND (OFF) by Haas, Isaac 12:05
MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards, Carsen 12:01 REBOUND (DEF) by (DEADBALL)

11:42 TIMEOUT MEDIA

REBOUND (DEF) by Mathias, Dakota 11:37 MISSED 3 PTR by Mitrou-Long, Naz

GOOD! LAYUP by Haas, Isaac [PNT] 11:23 60-46 H 14
ASSIST by Mathias, Dakota 11:23
GOOD! FT SHOT by Haas, Isaac 11:23 61-46 H 15 FOUL by Bowie, Darrell (P2T4)

11:07 61-48 H 13 GOOD! LAYUP by Thomas, Matt [PNT]

MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards, Carsen 10:49 REBOUND (DEF) by Bowie, Darrell

10:44 TURNOVR by Bowie, Darrell

STEAL by Edwards, Carsen 10:43
GOOD! LAYUP by Edwards, Carsen [FB/PNT] 10:41 63-48 H 15

10:30 63-50 H 13 GOOD! JUMPER by Morris, Monte

TURNOVR by Thompson, P.J. 10:07

SUB IN : Edwards, Vincent 10:07 SUB IN : Burton, Deonte
SUB OUT: Haas, Isaac 10:07 SUB OUT: Bowie, Darrell

09:53 63-53 H 10 GOOD! 3 PTR by Jackson, Donovan

MISSED 3 PTR by Mathias, Dakota 09:32 REBOUND (DEF) by Mitrou-Long, Naz

09:26 63-56 H 7 GOOD! 3 PTR by Morris, Monte [FB]

TIMEOUT 30sec 09:25
SUB IN : Swanigan, Caleb 09:25
SUB OUT: Albrecht, Spike 09:25

**********************
I was hopeful that someone would actually get the timeline. Thank you. I didn't know, but knew it was really quick...and Purdue's turnovers were imprinted in my mind. Bottom line...as I've referenced many times in many other threads...games can change a lot in 2 minutes. It was an emotional game and found myself up until 2. I haven't had a chance to see it again yet... Now, I see, I'll be dragging in Friday...but that is okay if Purdue nails it!

 

[tjreese]

OK, I'll let you handpick any 5 minutes of the season. Biggie can be refreshed or worn out. Doesn't matter. Show me the perfect 5 minutes where he had no misses, not turnovers and no fouls. How many of those perfect 5 minutes are there. Basically your argument is just an argument for the sake of arguing and neither of us can tell today whether the run would have happened if he had been left in or not or if his returning 8 minutes earlier would have had any effect at all. It is what it is and to just argue because you want to damn Painter for this is stupid. When it's all said and done all we'll remember in a few months is that it was an exciting win.

*******************
Just something to remember...MOST mistakes are mental and most mental mistakes are caused by fatigue. First it was Lombardi and now Jimmy Johnson (doesn't mean that Biggie was fatigued for actually playing more than his average game and yet sitting out too long for many, but I'm sure the coaches were looking at his minutes...double digit lead...Haas not going to play and wanting a fresh Biggie...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/dallas-co...Football-Life-Fatigue-makes-cowards-of-us-all

 

[Boiler_HD]

I say we make at least 3 more threads to discuss this, hell we should even ask a eye witness as to what they observed during this time. With the amount of time this board has put into dissecting this stretch of a couple minutes we could make a great "30 for 30".

Please comment on potential titles for the 30 for 30 in your replies!!!

 

[tjreese]

I say we make at least 3 more threads to discuss this, hell we should even ask a eye witness as to what they observed during this time. With the amount of time this board has put into dissecting this stretch of a couple minutes we could make a great "30 for 30".

Please comment on potential titles for the 30 for 30 in your replies!!!

I will say it isn't just this forum. A lady that used to be a cheerleader in high school that also went to Purdue had teh same comments on time in FB and so did a few other posters. Announcers want to make the game exciting as though the play isn't enough...and too many swallow their comments as gospel...

 

[TC4THREE]

Read through the game thread on the Kansas board with their fans talking about it and they all reached the same conclusion most here did regarding Swanigan sitting too long. It wasn't just Purdue fans.

 

[PistolPt]

I say we make at least 3 more threads to discuss this, hell we should even ask a eye witness as to what they observed during this time. With the amount of time this board has put into dissecting this stretch of a couple minutes we could make a great "30 for 30".

Please comment on potential titles for the 30 for 30 in your replies!!!

No doubt. Unreal. Like I said above, peole think we should be Villanova 85 championship game perfect for 40 minutes.

 

[Boiler_HD]

I will say it isn't just this forum. A lady that used to be a cheerleader in high school that also went to Purdue had teh same comments on time in FB and so did a few other posters. Announcers want to make the game exciting as though the play isn't enough...and too many swallow their comments as gospel...

The only reason the "typical" basketball fan is talking about this is because the announcers talked about it for the whole 2.5 minutes or whatever time it was. I realize this is a forum, which is why I laugh about the multiple threads.

 

[Heller]

Yep, he wanted in. Actually he didn't want to go out. That being said, I'm gonna trust the coach on this one. He sees what he sees and we and the players see what we WANT to see. Having him fresh at the end had a large part in the final outcome. Train like a mad man or not a fresh Biggie is worth three of anybody else.

I think the part people miss is that he wasn't tired and didn't want a break. We were pushing the lead and he wanted to stay in. This kid works out for an hour after home games so he has plenty of energy. So when to put him back in is moot when he could have just stayed on the floor.

All that said, Iowa State was clearly gassed at the end.

 

[threeeputtt]

Hey, we won! I do think Biggie should have come in after the TO but, we will never know if that was a good move. Biggie is still 19 and young and in great condition. I am not sure I would have set him at all. Oh to be 19 again!

 

[tjreese]

Read through the game thread on the Kansas board with their fans talking about it and they all reached the same conclusion most here did regarding Swanigan sitting too long. It wasn't just Purdue fans.

Why would we think their fans know anymore about Purdue basketball than others? I imagine they think he was out 10 minutes as well and Purdue was stopping them until that time and not turning the ball over. Purdue had turnovers...Purdue couldn't stop them. Biggie may or may not have held back the wave, but what if he didn't and now we are in the final minutes? There is also a psychological effect of rolling the dice...do the others continue to play and stay involved while in a double digit lead..or do they go to the well...get out of sync possibly going to biggie too much too early...IO don't know...seen it go both ways.

What needs stressed are 1)fans are more emotional many times and are not aware of all the things coaches are juggling and taking chances in all strategies. 2)no matter how bad a coach is...he has forgot a lot more than most fans know...they are far from perfect...but rarely is anything a single issue.3) Biggie was not stopping anyone 4) perhaps Biggie could have scored more and slowed down the tide...that is a fair debate...but if you were going to sub Biggie and you knew the small ball you prepared Purdue to play knowing Iowa State would play it and you had a double digit lead...it is either now or never it appears to me....

 

[tjreese]

No doubt. Unreal. Like I said above, peole think we should be Villanova 85 championship game perfect for 40 minutes.

I had that game copied for so long...and now it is lost!

 

[PistolPt]

I had that game copied for so long...and now it is lost!

No worries, reincarnation this Thursday against Kansas for preservation!

 

[New Pal Boiler]

If we're going to discuss it, let's at least deal in facts. I've copied the game log below. After looking at it, I kind of feel a little differently about it.

First of all, the Iowa State run while Swanigan was out was really about 70 seconds long. Swanigan exited the game at the 12:51 mark with Purdue up 14. Purdue's lead at the 10:41 mark was actually 15 points so it wasn't until that point that Iowa State really began their run. Then....

Monte Morris hits a jumper at 10:30 (13 point game)
PJ turnover at 10:07 at which point there was a dead ball and an opportunity to sub.
Donovan Jackson hits a 3 at 9:53 (10 point game) and I believe that's when Swanigan got up to check in at the next dead ball.
Mathias missed a 3 at 9:32 and Iowa State rebounds
Monte Morris hits a 3 at 9:26 (7 point game) prompting Purdue to take a timeout which gets Swanigan back in the game.

There were 4 real opportunities in between the 12-minute TV timeout and the Purdue timeout to sub Swanigan back in.

1. Back side of the TV timeout at 11:42 with Purdue leading by 12 and Iowa State ball.
2. After the Haas 3-pt play to put us up 15 with 11:23 left. Note at this point our lead was actually greater than when Swanigan subbed out.
3. After PJ's turnover at 10:07 at which point Vince subbed back in and we were still up 13.
4. After the Iowa State 3 pointer to cut it to 10 at 9:53 (would've required a timeout and I'm pretty sure Swanigan was set to check back in at the next dead ball at this point).

Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure everyone has an opinion on when they should've made that substitution but that 8-0 run came on 3 Iowa State possessions over just about 60 seconds. We were ok for the first 2.5 minutes of game time that Swanigan was out for.


http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2016-2017/purdue34.html

13:11 58-44 H 14 GOOD! FT SHOT by Morris, Monte

SUB IN : Haas, Isaac 13:11
SUB OUT: Edwards, Vincent 13:11

TURNOVR by Edwards, Carsen 12:51 STEAL by Morris, Monte

SUB IN : Albrecht, Spike 12:51
SUB OUT: Swanigan, Caleb 12:51

12:36 58-46 H 12 GOOD! DUNK by Bowie, Darrell [PNT]
12:36 ASSIST by Morris, Monte

MISSED 3 PTR by Mathias, Dakota 12:05
REBOUND (OFF) by Haas, Isaac 12:05
MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards, Carsen 12:01 REBOUND (DEF) by (DEADBALL)

11:42 TIMEOUT MEDIA

REBOUND (DEF) by Mathias, Dakota 11:37 MISSED 3 PTR by Mitrou-Long, Naz

GOOD! LAYUP by Haas, Isaac [PNT] 11:23 60-46 H 14
ASSIST by Mathias, Dakota 11:23
GOOD! FT SHOT by Haas, Isaac 11:23 61-46 H 15 FOUL by Bowie, Darrell (P2T4)

11:07 61-48 H 13 GOOD! LAYUP by Thomas, Matt [PNT]

MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards, Carsen 10:49 REBOUND (DEF) by Bowie, Darrell

10:44 TURNOVR by Bowie, Darrell

STEAL by Edwards, Carsen 10:43
GOOD! LAYUP by Edwards, Carsen [FB/PNT] 10:41 63-48 H 15

10:30 63-50 H 13 GOOD! JUMPER by Morris, Monte

TURNOVR by Thompson, P.J. 10:07

SUB IN : Edwards, Vincent 10:07 SUB IN : Burton, Deonte
SUB OUT: Haas, Isaac 10:07 SUB OUT: Bowie, Darrell

09:53 63-53 H 10 GOOD! 3 PTR by Jackson, Donovan

MISSED 3 PTR by Mathias, Dakota 09:32 REBOUND (DEF) by Mitrou-Long, Naz

09:26 63-56 H 7 GOOD! 3 PTR by Morris, Monte [FB]

TIMEOUT 30sec 09:25
SUB IN : Swanigan, Caleb 09:25
SUB OUT: Albrecht, Spike 09:25

Agree completely.

However, had PJs 3 rimmed out and we ended up losing, it would rank right up there with Danny Hope's timeout and Everette Stephens dribbling off his knee, in all time Purdue sports gaffs.

 

[lbodel]

Read through the game thread on the Kansas board with their fans talking about it and they all reached the same conclusion most here did regarding Swanigan sitting too long. It wasn't just Purdue fans.

Yes, but it's because the announcers latched onto it. If the announcers said nothing about it, it may have been brought up on here (because we have some nitpickers lol), but it wouldn't have ballooned into the issue it has - and still apparently is...

 

[tjreese]

No worries, reincarnation this Thursday against Kansas for preservation!

with everything except being high on the cocaine! I loved that game and Villanova if I remember correctly had played them twice before and had been close until the final minutes...why I would love to get Kansas and then Michigan ...or Oregon.

I had ball handling, passing and shooting tapes of the Pistol about one week before he died and you can hear him breathing hard in the tapes... I picked up the square V from the Pistol

 

[Chauncey1986]

Yep, he wanted in. Actually he didn't want to go out. That being said, I'm gonna trust the coach on this one. He sees what he sees and we and the players see what we WANT to see. Having him fresh at the end had a large part in the final outcome. Train like a mad man or not a fresh Biggie is worth three of anybody else.

That's true. He may not have gotten that last rebound without all that rest.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Yes, but it's because the announcers latched onto it. If the announcers said nothing about it, it may have been brought up on here (because we have some nitpickers lol), but it wouldn't have ballooned into the issue it has - and still apparently is...

And we all know how much we always agree with the announcers. They are almost always right.

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

It is funny no one was complaining about Painter's "screw up" in the first half when Biggie was on the bench for the exact same 3 minute stretch. The timing of ISU's run was just unfortunate. Biggie was on the bench for all of 6 minutes in a frenetic paced game that had relatively few breaks in the action. If not for the video reviews, it would have been worse.

The bigger issue is we had no answer on defense for Burton when they went small. But it all worked out in the end!

Fact: The game wasn't on the line at that moment Lets hope it's not repeated.

 

[SIBoiler2]

If we'd just gone to a diamond and one or zone trap D while Biggie was out we'd likely had such a comfortable lead he could have taken the rest of the night off.

 

[tjreese]

If we'd just gone to a diamond and one or zone trap D while Biggie was out we'd likely had such a comfortable lead he could have taken the rest of the night off.

***********
The Paramecium defense was needed in that situation. Changing from some great kids to a lower life form combined with a false foot would have resulted in many charges. One foot could have tripped them and the false foot could have set up a false charge as well resulting in a false call...

 

[Do Dah Day]

***********
The Paramecium defense was needed in that situation. Changing from some great kids to a lower life form combined with a false foot would have resulted in many charges. One foot could have tripped them and the false foot could have set up a false charge as well resulting in a false call...

ALL are alternative facts ...

 

[Dakota Girl]

Thanks for the timeline, TC. At the time, the biggest head-scratcher to me was putting Vince in without Biggie or Haas (10:07 mark).

CMP's post-game quotes about knowing ISU would be forced to go small leads me to believe he was prepared for the situation. It seems he knew Biggie would have trouble guarding Burton in space like that, and he tried Vince at the "5" when neither Caleb nor Haas was in foul trouble.

Of course, ISU hit those back-2-back 3s right after Vincent re-entered the game. I think CMP simply over-thought that situation instead of sticking with what was working the whole game up to that point. As I believe he's done a better job of riding "hot" line-ups this season, I don't expect to see him make the same sort of mistake against Kansas.

I am hoping Kansas is in a personnel situation that requires them to play a traditional Big. An athletic five is our Kryptonite. Our problem with ISU is when they played tiny ball we quit scoring at the same time. Make them pay inside for going small at all five spots and we win by twenty. As it was we made great TV and still won!

 

[SIBoiler2]

I am hoping Kansas is in a personnel situation that requires them to play a traditional Big. An athletic five is our Kryptonite. Our problem with ISU is when they played tiny ball we quit scoring at the same time. Make them pay inside for going small at all five spots and we win by twenty. As it was we made great TV and still won!

I get it. If they try to go small we should immediately go to a lineup of Haas, Haarms, Biggie, and Taylor with VE at the PG position. I like it!!! We could then institute the infamous Great Wall Defense which is clearly impenetrable and would put old memories of Phi Slamma Jamma to rest.

 

[*4purdue*]

If we're going to discuss it, let's at least deal in facts. I've copied the game log below. After looking at it, I kind of feel a little differently about it.

First of all, the Iowa State run while Swanigan was out was really about 70 seconds long. Swanigan exited the game at the 12:51 mark with Purdue up 14. Purdue's lead at the 10:41 mark was actually 15 points so it wasn't until that point that Iowa State really began their run. Then....

Monte Morris hits a jumper at 10:30 (13 point game)
PJ turnover at 10:07 at which point there was a dead ball and an opportunity to sub.
Donovan Jackson hits a 3 at 9:53 (10 point game) and I believe that's when Swanigan got up to check in at the next dead ball.
Mathias missed a 3 at 9:32 and Iowa State rebounds
Monte Morris hits a 3 at 9:26 (7 point game) prompting Purdue to take a timeout which gets Swanigan back in the game.

There were 4 real opportunities in between the 12-minute TV timeout and the Purdue timeout to sub Swanigan back in.

1. Back side of the TV timeout at 11:42 with Purdue leading by 12 and Iowa State ball.
2. After the Haas 3-pt play to put us up 15 with 11:23 left. Note at this point our lead was actually greater than when Swanigan subbed out.
3. After PJ's turnover at 10:07 at which point Vince subbed back in and we were still up 13.
4. After the Iowa State 3 pointer to cut it to 10 at 9:53 (would've required a timeout and I'm pretty sure Swanigan was set to check back in at the next dead ball at this point).

Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure everyone has an opinion on when they should've made that substitution but that 8-0 run came on 3 Iowa State possessions over just about 60 seconds. We were ok for the first 2.5 minutes of game time that Swanigan was out for.


http://www.purduesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2016-2017/purdue34.html

13:11 58-44 H 14 GOOD! FT SHOT by Morris, Monte

SUB IN : Haas, Isaac 13:11
SUB OUT: Edwards, Vincent 13:11

TURNOVR by Edwards, Carsen 12:51 STEAL by Morris, Monte

SUB IN : Albrecht, Spike 12:51
SUB OUT: Swanigan, Caleb 12:51

12:36 58-46 H 12 GOOD! DUNK by Bowie, Darrell [PNT]
12:36 ASSIST by Morris, Monte

MISSED 3 PTR by Mathias, Dakota 12:05
REBOUND (OFF) by Haas, Isaac 12:05
MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards, Carsen 12:01 REBOUND (DEF) by (DEADBALL)

11:42 TIMEOUT MEDIA

REBOUND (DEF) by Mathias, Dakota 11:37 MISSED 3 PTR by Mitrou-Long, Naz

GOOD! LAYUP by Haas, Isaac [PNT] 11:23 60-46 H 14
ASSIST by Mathias, Dakota 11:23
GOOD! FT SHOT by Haas, Isaac 11:23 61-46 H 15 FOUL by Bowie, Darrell (P2T4)

11:07 61-48 H 13 GOOD! LAYUP by Thomas, Matt [PNT]

MISSED 3 PTR by Edwards, Carsen 10:49 REBOUND (DEF) by Bowie, Darrell

10:44 TURNOVR by Bowie, Darrell

STEAL by Edwards, Carsen 10:43
GOOD! LAYUP by Edwards, Carsen [FB/PNT] 10:41 63-48 H 15

10:30 63-50 H 13 GOOD! JUMPER by Morris, Monte

TURNOVR by Thompson, P.J. 10:07

SUB IN : Edwards, Vincent 10:07 SUB IN : Burton, Deonte
SUB OUT: Haas, Isaac 10:07 SUB OUT: Bowie, Darrell

09:53 63-53 H 10 GOOD! 3 PTR by Jackson, Donovan

MISSED 3 PTR by Mathias, Dakota 09:32 REBOUND (DEF) by Mitrou-Long, Naz

09:26 63-56 H 7 GOOD! 3 PTR by Morris, Monte [FB]

TIMEOUT 30sec 09:25
SUB IN : Swanigan, Caleb 09:25
SUB OUT: Albrecht, Spike 09:25

Player of the year should not be sitting 3 1/2 minutes unless he's in foul trouble. End of discussion.

 

[TC4THREE]

Player of the year should not be sitting 3 1/2 minutes unless he's in foul trouble. End of discussion.

Haha. My favorite is when someone says "End of discussion" on this board. OK. Yea. We'll stop talking about it because you said so.