Purdue vs. Arizona: MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD

[tjreese]

Purdue figured out how to beat their zone. Shots that weren't falling started to fall again. It took 6 minutes, but Purdue got back on track, so Arizona abandoned it.

So I went back and watched a few minutes again and made some notes. I have a busy day and have no intention of rewriting my notes. What AZ was doing I'm unsure it was match-up, but more of a modified pure zone if you can correctly call a pure zone modified. For the most part, AZ was really focused on Braden and Fletch with some coverage of Lance. Purdue's 4 man (Mason) was open quite a bit showing his hands and ready to shoot, but the ball never came his way. They tried to keep 2 bodies close to Zach. Any that are interested and have recorded the game can go back and verify my notes if desired. I don't know if this is worthy of its own thread since a lot of people have opinions on this. FWIW, the 1-2-2 and 3-2 zone is just how flat that middle person is should he drop just a bit. I tried to get the times "something went on". It is only around 6 minutes to watch from 15 to 9

15:20 1-2-2 Zach on baseline by coaches starters in and pure zone Trey at ft line and Fletcher hits a 3 on top. Az gives up zone and goes man next possession. Now Ethan is in the game and Mason Gillis. Ethan is guarding love. 13:30 mark and AZ extends the 1-2-2 out. Purdue gets the ball to Zack on the block but he misses a close shot. 13:00 AZ shows 1-2-2, but really plays the 2 bigs in a zone on the blocks while the other three covers the top 3 for Purdue. It appears to be a straight up zone where they extend a bit on the perimeter.13:08 you can see Fletcher cut through the lane and his defender follows to the lane and points out where fletch is but it appears it is pure zone but just pointing out the perimeter threats for Purdue. Purdue again gets the ball to Zach just outside the arc and Zach misses again. Two shots in a row he makes a lot. Maybe he is tired?

12:21 fletch drives but Az knocks ball out of bounds and now AZ is in man defense on the out of bounds. Pass to Zach and hands ball to Mason bobble pass to Zach but Zach gets it and throws it over fletchers head without any pressure on Zach. Robbie is talking about the zone heating up Purdue guards, but that just isn’t happening (they played that tight in man). So far Fletch hit a 3 and Zach missed the next two possessions that he makes a lot of the time and then the next possession Zach throws it over fletchers head.

11:50 Or next possession AZ is in man and Zach misses again inside. Robbie filling time and says he has got some good looks but this 2-3 zone is giving him problems? (What problems if you are getting good looks?)

Next possession Braden pushes the ball and Cam heads to the bucket and Braden throws it out of bounds.

11:10 Zach subbed and goal tending basket wiped off (Fatigue may have led to Zach missing two deep). AZ down 8 with the ball. No Zach and Ballo gets lob for 2. Purdue only up 6 now and AZ in man. Fletch throws ball to Caleb on the blocks and Caleb looks to the top and AZ weak side defender scrapes baseline and steals ball. Az scores on push and only down 4 with 10:28 to go.

Zach back in and AZ back in zone. Cam without pressure throws to Braden but AZ gets hand on ball and goes out of bounds. Braden missed 3 and Lance gets ball fouled and makes none of the two shots.

9:42 to 9:32 AZ points out Braden and fully aware of Fletcher and morphs like a matchup but around 9:32 double teaming Zach with two man zone and playing tight on Braden, Fletcher and Lance. Nobody around Mason with his hand ready to catch but Fletcher dribbles and throws the ball to AZ and then draws a charge from love at the other end.

Next possession AZ now in 2-3 zone and Mason hits Zach deep and Zach is fouled. Zach hits 2 FTs Purdue now up 6. AZ scores and back in 1-2-2 down 4.

Braden gets trapped and loses ball off his leg. Ballo fouls Zach trying to get offensive rebound and Zach hits 2 FTs 8:21 left Purdue up 6.

It was midnight and I have a lot to do today. Still, take my timeline with only a few seconds I could be off and see just how accurate I am in what happened. Was it zone or other issues for Purdue? Everyone can have an opinion, but rewatch if desired and see if I'm accurate...

 

[Dryfly88]

So I went back and watched a few minutes again and made some notes. I have a busy day and have no intention of rewriting my notes. What AZ was doing I'm unsure it was match-up, but more of a modified pure zone if you can correctly call a pure zone modified. For the most part, AZ was really focused on Braden and Fletch with some coverage of Lance. Purdue's 4 man (Mason) was open quite a bit showing his hands and ready to shoot, but the ball never came his way. They tried to keep 2 bodies close to Zach. Any that are interested and have recorded the game can go back and verify my notes if desired. I don't know if this is worthy of its own thread since a lot of people have opinions on this. FWIW, the 1-2-2 and 3-2 zone is just how flat that middle person is should he drop just a bit. I tried to get the times "something went on". It is only around 6 minutes to watch from 15 to 9

15:20 1-2-2 Zach on baseline by coaches starters in and pure zone Trey at ft line and Fletcher hits a 3 on top. Az gives up zone and goes man next possession. Now Ethan is in the game and Mason Gillis. Ethan is guarding love. 13:30 mark and AZ extends the 1-2-2 out. Purdue gets the ball to Zack on the block but he misses a close shot. 13:00 AZ shows 1-2-2, but really plays the 2 bigs in a zone on the blocks while the other three covers the top 3 for Purdue. It appears to be a straight up zone where they extend a bit on the perimeter.13:08 you can see Fletcher cut through the lane and his defender follows to the lane and points out where fletch is but it appears it is pure zone but just pointing out the perimeter threats for Purdue. Purdue again gets the ball to Zach just outside the arc and Zach misses again. Two shots in a row he makes a lot. Maybe he is tired?

12:21 fletch drives but Az knocks ball out of bounds and now AZ is in man defense on the out of bounds. Pass to Zach and hands ball to Mason bobble pass to Zach but Zach gets it and throws it over fletchers head without any pressure on Zach. Robbie is talking about the zone heating up Purdue guards, but that just isn’t happening. So far Fletch hit a 3 and Zach missed the next two possessions that he makes a lot of the time and then the next possession Zach throws it over fletchers head.

11:50 Or next possession AZ is in man and Zach misses again inside. Robbie filling time and says he has got some good looks but this 2-3 zone is giving him problems? (What problems if you are getting good looks?)

Next possession Braden pushes the ball and Cam heads to the bucket and Braden throws it out of bounds.

11:10 Zach subbed and goal tending basket wiped off (Fatigue may have led to Zach missing two deep). AZ down 8 with the ball. No Zach and Ballo gets lob for 2. Purdue only up 6 now and AZ in man. Fletch throws ball to Caleb on the blocks and Caleb looks to the top and AZ weak side defender scrapes baseline and steals ball. Az scores on push and only down 4 with 10:28 to go.

Zach back in and AZ back in zone. Cam without pressure throws to Braden but AZ gets hand on ball and goes out of bounds. Braden missed 3 and Lance gets ball fouled and makes none of the two shots.

9:42 to 9:32 AZ points out Braden and fully aware of Fletcher and morphs like a matchup but around 9:32 double teaming Zach with two man zone and playing tight on Braden, Fletcher and Lance. Nobody around Mason with his hand ready to catch but Fletcher dribbles and throws the ball to AZ and then draws a charge from love at the other end.

Next possession AZ now in 2-3 zone and Mason hits Zach deep and Zach is fouled. Zach hits 2 FTs Purdue now up 6. AZ scores and back in 1-2-2 down 4.

Braden gets trapped and loses ball off his leg. Ballo fouls Zach trying to get offensive rebound and Zach hits 2 FTs 8:21 left Purdue up 6.

It was midnight and I have a lot to do today. Still, take my timeline with only a few seconds I could be off and see just how accurate I am in what happened. Was it zone or other issues for Purdue. Everyone can have an opinion, but rewatch if desired and see if I'm accurate...

As I said above, reasonable minds can disagree. If you or anyone else on here think that the switching of defenses had no impact on PU and it was all of our own making then we can just agree to disagree. For me, it was very clear live and again after watching the replay, that the changing of defense had a negative impact on PU.

I (again this is one guys opinion) believe there is some bias on this board because PU doesn't play zone, that it doesn't have a place in the game. And for those folks it's difficult to admit it does work sometimes because they feel in doing so they are somehow admitting that CMP should do it also. That is not the argument I'm trying to make here. I have made that argument many times before in games where I thought we should have tried it. But in this case, I'm simply pointing out, that what happened Saturday happens often, just not in the conference we belong to.

 

[tjreese]

As I said above, reasonable minds can disagree. If you or anyone else on here think that the switching of defenses had no impact on PU and it was all of our own making then we can just agree to disagree. For me, it was very clear live and again after watching the replay, that the changing of defense had a negative impact on PU.

I (again this is one guys opinion) believe there is some bias on this board because PU doesn't play zone, that it doesn't have a place in the game. And for those folks it's difficult to admit it does work sometimes because they feel in doing so they are somehow admitting that CMP should do it also. That is not the argument I'm trying to make here. I have made that argument many times before in games where I thought we should have tried it. But in this case, I'm simply pointing out, that what happened Saturday happens often, just not in the conference we belong to.

I listed what happened for any to review. I suggest any that want to know to review the game and stop the game and go back and forth a lot to see. I believe that once reviewed there will still be different opinions, and that is okay. However, for any that are interested that may or may not change an opinion taking those 6 minutes and going back and forth a few times on each segment tells what happened because you will be focused absent of TV noise if desired, and trying to understand the particulars. Those that believe a zone caused it can hold their position as those that don't, but the events happened as I said. If doing so note Mason wide open showing his hands, bent and ready to shoot wide open, but no ball his way.

 

[Boiler Buck]

We not only missed shots (which is the primary goal of any defense) we also turned the ball over several times during that stretch. That defense was VERY effective during that 6:00 run.

I can only speak for myself. But in this discussion I haven't, nor am I intending to, suggest that PU should have done anything different on defense in this game. I'm simply pointing out that this was the perfect example of a team switching to a zone defense and it having a positive impact for that team. There are many on this board that say a zone defense doesn't have a place in today's game. They will say there isn't practice time available to work on multiple defenses. They will say that shooters are too good now and it won't work. They will say it's ok for HS, but it won't be effective in college and on and on and on. Simply not true.

Most of those people watch the B1G exclusively or the vast majority of the time. They don't see what happened Saturday, happening quite frequently in other games. This was an opportunity to see what can happen if a team switches up. No, it doesn't mean it will work every time. No defense works every time. The score would be 0-0 if that were the case. But it can do what it did Saturday. Give a team something else to look at. Make them make adjustments and that can sometimes be all it takes to change the momentum of the game. Against their MTM we were getting everything we wanted. Good Lord, we had 49 points at half time!

For those that say "we figured it out" I would just say that yes Jones hit a 3 and AZ came out of the zone. On the next 2 possessions against their MTM we got a Smith 3 and an Edey 2. It could be argued they should have stuck with it a little longer, but that isn't really the point of the discussion.

I imagine we will get more practice against it if opposing coaches are worth their salt. Which in my opinion is great.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Reasonable minds can disagree. I would argue he should have stayed with it for a few more possessions but I'm glad he didn't. He went back to MTM and we scored easily the next 2 possessions and started to finish the game out.

In retrospect, it is hard to argue, but in the play in question, Braden did a nice job setting it up and Purdue was very intentional about forcing the defender to choose between guarding Loyer or Jones. Unless Arizona was comfortable conceding that shot to Jones, I can see why they chose to get out of it.

 

[Dryfly88]

I always like to hear what the opposing coach has to say after a game. Lloyd was very complimentary and specifically had some good things to say about CMP. As far as the zone discussion, it was asked of him around the 1:30 mark (link below). I think his thoughts match up closely with those expressed by myself and others. He felt is was effective and that we were "torching" their MTM defense. As some have pointed out he pulled it after the Jones 3 and didn't go back to it again. He mentions the Jones 3 in his discussion.

Good discussion by everyone here. Glad it can stay civil and I really enjoy the back and forth. My voice is almost back this morning. I was pretty hoarse yesterday! I was very happy to see a full house and a big advantage to PU. Loyer made a point after the game to acknowledge the crowd and thank them.

 

[BoilerAndy]

So I went back and watched a few minutes again and made some notes. I have a busy day and have no intention of rewriting my notes. What AZ was doing I'm unsure it was match-up, but more of a modified pure zone if you can correctly call a pure zone modified. For the most part, AZ was really focused on Braden and Fletch with some coverage of Lance. Purdue's 4 man (Mason) was open quite a bit showing his hands and ready to shoot, but the ball never came his way. They tried to keep 2 bodies close to Zach. Any that are interested and have recorded the game can go back and verify my notes if desired. I don't know if this is worthy of its own thread since a lot of people have opinions on this. FWIW, the 1-2-2 and 3-2 zone is just how flat that middle person is should he drop just a bit. I tried to get the times "something went on". It is only around 6 minutes to watch from 15 to 9

15:20 1-2-2 Zach on baseline by coaches starters in and pure zone Trey at ft line and Fletcher hits a 3 on top. Az gives up zone and goes man next possession. Now Ethan is in the game and Mason Gillis. Ethan is guarding love. 13:30 mark and AZ extends the 1-2-2 out. Purdue gets the ball to Zack on the block but he misses a close shot. 13:00 AZ shows 1-2-2, but really plays the 2 bigs in a zone on the blocks while the other three covers the top 3 for Purdue. It appears to be a straight up zone where they extend a bit on the perimeter.13:08 you can see Fletcher cut through the lane and his defender follows to the lane and points out where fletch is but it appears it is pure zone but just pointing out the perimeter threats for Purdue. Purdue again gets the ball to Zach just outside the arc and Zach misses again. Two shots in a row he makes a lot. Maybe he is tired?

12:21 fletch drives but Az knocks ball out of bounds and now AZ is in man defense on the out of bounds. Pass to Zach and hands ball to Mason bobble pass to Zach but Zach gets it and throws it over fletchers head without any pressure on Zach. Robbie is talking about the zone heating up Purdue guards, but that just isn’t happening (they played that tight in man). So far Fletch hit a 3 and Zach missed the next two possessions that he makes a lot of the time and then the next possession Zach throws it over fletchers head.

11:50 Or next possession AZ is in man and Zach misses again inside. Robbie filling time and says he has got some good looks but this 2-3 zone is giving him problems? (What problems if you are getting good looks?)

Next possession Braden pushes the ball and Cam heads to the bucket and Braden throws it out of bounds.

11:10 Zach subbed and goal tending basket wiped off (Fatigue may have led to Zach missing two deep). AZ down 8 with the ball. No Zach and Ballo gets lob for 2. Purdue only up 6 now and AZ in man. Fletch throws ball to Caleb on the blocks and Caleb looks to the top and AZ weak side defender scrapes baseline and steals ball. Az scores on push and only down 4 with 10:28 to go.

Zach back in and AZ back in zone. Cam without pressure throws to Braden but AZ gets hand on ball and goes out of bounds. Braden missed 3 and Lance gets ball fouled and makes none of the two shots.

9:42 to 9:32 AZ points out Braden and fully aware of Fletcher and morphs like a matchup but around 9:32 double teaming Zach with two man zone and playing tight on Braden, Fletcher and Lance. Nobody around Mason with his hand ready to catch but Fletcher dribbles and throws the ball to AZ and then draws a charge from love at the other end.

Next possession AZ now in 2-3 zone and Mason hits Zach deep and Zach is fouled. Zach hits 2 FTs Purdue now up 6. AZ scores and back in 1-2-2 down 4.

Braden gets trapped and loses ball off his leg. Ballo fouls Zach trying to get offensive rebound and Zach hits 2 FTs 8:21 left Purdue up 6.

It was midnight and I have a lot to do today. Still, take my timeline with only a few seconds I could be off and see just how accurate I am in what happened. Was it zone or other issues for Purdue? Everyone can have an opinion, but rewatch if desired and see if I'm accurate...

Good recap, tj. Big Ten Network has been rebroadcasting the game, and I caught the 2nd half again.

Purdue clearly was not expecting to see a zone and did not prepare for it. It likely took them out of their rythm. The turnovers and missed open shots might support this. But they regained it. Jones hitting his 3-pointer may have been the trigger to cause Lloyd to go back to man-to-man, but the 2 previous plays where Zach got the ball down low, he scored. After multiple misses from further out, he figured out where he needed to be and the rest of the team figured how to get the ball to him. Loyer missed a 3-pointer in between Edey's baskets, but it was an open shot that just didn't fall. Arizona's momentum had stalled, they stopped closing the gap, and they were running out of time. They couldn't afford to simply trade baskets the rest of the way. They switched back to what they do best -- man-to-man.

Arizona also tried a full-court press, but Purdue quickly figured it out. This Purdue team shows more resilience and confidence than previous teams.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Good discussion by everyone here. Glad it can stay civil and I really enjoy the back and forth. My voice is almost back this morning. I was pretty hoarse yesterday! I was very happy to see a full house and a big advantage to PU. Loyer made a point after the game to acknowledge the crowd and thank them.

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I agree. It's always fun to discuss why Purdue won.

And it is especially more fun than discussing whether MP is an idiot for playing Loyer or Morten over Heide and Colvin.

 

[tjreese]

Good recap, tj. Big Ten Network has been rebroadcasting the game, and I caught the 2nd half again.

Purdue clearly was not expecting to see a zone and did not prepare for it. It likely took them out of their rythm. The turnovers and missed open shots might support this. But they regained it. Jones hitting his 3-pointer may have been the trigger to cause Lloyd to go back to man-to-man, but the 2 previous plays where Zach got the ball down low, he scored. After multiple misses from further out, he figured out where he needed to be and the rest of the team figured how to get the ball to him. Loyer missed a 3-pointer in between Edey's baskets, but it was an open shot that just didn't fall. Arizona's momentum had stalled, they stopped closing the gap, and they were running out of time. They couldn't afford to simply trade baskets the rest of the way. They switched back to what they do best -- man-to-man.

Arizona also tried a full-court press, but Purdue quickly figured it out. This Purdue team shows more resilience and confidence than previous teams.

So, if you just watch again the second half you probably are not going to see the same things I mentioned. I went back and forth every segment about 5 or 6 times to see the various movements or lack of. It was late last night and so I didn't try to notice the criteria for when they went zone and when they went man. You can't watch it as a fan the second time IMO and see much different than the first time as a fan.

Two coaches play a month from now and team A has too many turnovers. Team B thinks it was the defense...from THAT coaches perspective and Team A thinks the turnovers were due to careless play by his players. Who is right since each coach may look at it from his perspective? If I understand @Dryfly88 the premise of changing defense to cause confusion, nothing I said invalidates the possibility of such. I have NO IDEA what went on in the players minds to know if there was missed shots due to confusion or inferior execution due to confusion. I only know there shouldn't have been, but we know everything is moving so fast for the players it could have taken place. I have no idea what they were thinking. I only know that all those players have seen that defense several times before with the only possible difference was the extension of the top three to play each player of Purdue with one man on him out on the perimeter...and a 4 man (Mason) left open some without the ball. I don't know what games will be problems for Purdue, but I hope no team makes a run without changing defense as that will confuse me more.

 

[PaBoiler78]

I always like to hear what the opposing coach has to say after a game. Lloyd was very complimentary and specifically had some good things to say about CMP. As far as the zone discussion, it was asked of him around the 1:30 mark (link below). I think his thoughts match up closely with those expressed by myself and others. He felt is was effective and that we were "torching" their MTM defense. As some have pointed out he pulled it after the Jones 3 and didn't go back to it again. He mentions the Jones 3 in his discussion.

Good discussion by everyone here. Glad it can stay civil and I really enjoy the back and forth. My voice is almost back this morning. I was pretty hoarse yesterday! I was very happy to see a full house and a big advantage to PU. Loyer made a point after the game to acknowledge the crowd and thank them.

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also noticed after the game Berg and Larsson got together for a chat. Watching this postgame it said before you meet Bama on wed, man, Bama got a tough schedule too

 

[BoilerAndy]

So, if you just watch again the second half you probably are not going to see the same things I mentioned. I went back and forth every segment about 5 or 6 times to see the various movements or lack of. It was late last night and so I didn't try to notice the criteria for when they went zone and when they went man. You can't watch it as a fan the second time IMO and see much different than the first time as a fan.

Two coaches play a month from now and team A has too many turnovers. Team B thinks it was the defense...from THAT coaches perspective and Team A thinks the turnovers were due to careless play by his players. Who is right since each coach may look at it from his perspective? If I understand @Dryfly88 the premise of changing defense to cause confusion, nothing I said invalidates the possibility of such. I have NO IDEA what went on in the players minds to know if there was missed shots due to confusion or inferior execution due to confusion. I only know there shouldn't have been, but we know everything is moving so fast for the players it could have taken place. I have no idea what they were thinking. I only know that all those players have seen that defense several times before with the only possible difference was the extension of the top three to play each player of Purdue with one man on him out on the perimeter...and a 4 man (Mason) left open some without the ball. I don't know what games will be problems for Purdue, but I hope no team makes a run without changing defense as that will confuse me more.

Yeah, I don't know if it was the defense. But Purdue lost focus or got tired, and got sloppy with passes and went into a shooting slump. Was it coincidence that it occurred when Arizona changed their defense? Often times Mathboy will correctly point out the difference between corellation and causation.

In any case, Purdue stopped the bleeding and did not lose control of the game.

 

[tjreese]

Yeah, I don't know if it was the defense. But Purdue lost focus or got tired, and got sloppy with passes and went into a shooting slump. Was it coincidence that it occurred when Arizona changed their defense? Often times Mathboy will correctly point out the difference between corellation and causation.

In any case, Purdue stopped the bleeding and did not lose control of the game.

I can correlate the the hamburgers eaten at Culvers in Indiana with the birth rate in New York. Correlation is just a mathematical relationship and so it may or may not be causal. Think of correlation like this when linear. There is a scatterplot of data where each data point is related to a measure on the horizontal axis and the vertical axis. It could be height (vertical) and weight (horizontal) for men say. One data might be 6'0 185 lbs and another data point might be 6'3 and 215 lbs and so forth. In a simplified view...draw a line through the middle of the data and go back and measure the distance from that centerline to each data point (not doing the Pearson Product moment correlation formula). The higher the correlation the closer each data point is to the center line since there is little variation about that center line. A +.7 and a -.7 correlation have the same predictability value with the + data going upward to the right and the - 7 going downward to the right. You have a lot of company since very few really understand correlation, testing for change or confounding variables,

(What AZ did was to mimic pressure man more often than not on the 1-2 on top while the back two were clearly in a zone and yet they showed there was a time Purdue overloaded the court (every one on the right side of the goal) that the back two also shifted the zone to match the players. Normally that weakside on the back side does NOT go past the center of the goal. That is kinda a road mark of how far to shift, but AZ showed more of a sagging man or matchup in that. There were a couple of times I though AZ was all screwed up in their coverage as it was not systematic from one possession to another...and quite possibly since AZ never played it...perhaps that explains them looking a bit helter skelter in it at times

 

[tjreese]

Yeah, I don't know if it was the defense. But Purdue lost focus or got tired, and got sloppy with passes and went into a shooting slump. Was it coincidence that it occurred when Arizona changed their defense? Often times Mathboy will correctly point out the difference between corellation and causation.

In any case, Purdue stopped the bleeding and did not lose control of the game.

Another thought you might find interesting. It is a story about a father and his daughter and the ghosts that were in her room keeping her awake a lot with dad having to lay down in bed with her until she fell asleep and then would sneak off to his bed finally to get his sleep. This went on for a while and dad decided to put an end to it. So the next night dad and his daughter covered every inch of the daughter's bedroom showing his daughter there were no ghosts in her room. Dad kissed her goodnight, turned off the lights and went to his bed. He was just about to crawl into bed when he heard a blood curdling scream from his daughter and ran into her room and flipped on the lights and asked what was wrong. The daughter said ghosts. Then dad said look around there are no ghosts as he looked over the room again...and then the daughter said....the ghosts leave when the lights are turned on.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Another thought you might find interesting. It is a story about a father and his daughter and the ghosts that were in her room keeping her awake a lot with dad having to lay down in bed with her until she fell asleep and then would sneak off to his bed finally to get his sleep. This went on for a while and dad decided to put an end to it. So the next night dad and his daughter covered every inch of the daughter's bedroom showing his daughter there were no ghosts in her room. Dad kissed her goodnight, turned off the lights and went to his bed. He was just about to crawl into bed when he heard a blood curdling scream from his daughter and ran into her room and flipped on the lights and asked what was wrong. The daughter said ghosts. Then dad said look around there are no ghosts as he looked over the room again...and then the daughter said....the ghosts leave when the lights are turned on.

Good story. Many people who raised children can relate. Dad needs to sit with his daughter in the dark room and have her point out the ghosts when they show up.

 

[tjreese]

Good story. Many people who raised children can relate. Dad needs to sit with his daughter in the dark room and have her point out the ghosts when they show up.

more than the reality of the ghost story is how we many times we think things are related when they may not be and so it relates to the "correlation" part. The little girl knew that when the lights went out she saw ghosts and when the lights came on the ghosts left. Dad knew that wasn't true, but how do you tell the daughter there were no ghosts, just like when the lights were on? As adults we too do similar things from time to time in all facets of life believing in connections that may not be so in politics, human relations, religion, certain brands of appliances and so forth. Some may be warranted and others not...something we all have done in the past to some degree or another.

We get beat by an athletic team we notice and when we beat an athletic team we don't. I think I may jump a bit higher in those MJ shoes! We must not be using the correct bait since we are not catching anything. You have the same engine and truck I do and yet I get 4 more MPG on the road...where do you get your gasoline? My grandpa lived to 90 and smoked a pack of cigarettes a day and never died of lung cancer and other people didn't smoke and died much younger. Maybe they should have smoked? I think the health field offers a lot of takes or views in what is considered correlated which to many is casual when it may not be. Jimmy , grab that skid of parts over there that were rejected on line 1 and run them on line 2. Yep, they all passed on line 2 I knew they were good parts...

 

[Dryfly88]

What we saw happen Saturday, was not an anomaly. If you watch games outside of the B1G you will see it happen. A team switches defense and the other team takes time to adjust. Sometimes they adjust almost immediately and the switch has zero or very little impact. Sometimes it takes a possession or two and sometimes they never do adjust well. Here is the quote from Loyer: "That zone stumped us for a little bit, we weren't expecting it". Braden: "They made a good little adjustment there, then Lance hit that shot and took them out of it". Coach Lloyd " I thought it was pretty effective, it got them out of their rhythm a little bit and then they hit that 3 on the wing and got the separation they needed".

Now if you want to think these guys don't know what they are talking about, that is fine and you have a right to believe what you want. But I will tell you this happens many times throughout the season. Many of us have tried to explain this but it finally happened to PU and so some are seeing it for the first time.

There are many on here that just watch PU games. Others just watch B1G games. You will not see this just watching those games. Our conference does very little of this.

 

[tjreese]

What we saw happen Saturday, was not an anomaly. If you watch games outside of the B1G you will see it happen. A team switches defense and the other team takes time to adjust. Sometimes they adjust almost immediately and the switch has zero or very little impact. Sometimes it takes a possession or two and sometimes they never do adjust well. Here is the quote from Loyer: "That zone stumped us for a little bit, we weren't expecting it". Braden: "They made a good little adjustment there, then Lance hit that shot and took them out of it". Coach Lloyd " I thought it was pretty effective, it got them out of their rhythm a little bit and then they hit that 3 on the wing and got the separation they needed".

Now if you want to think these guys don't know what they are talking about, that is fine and you have a right to believe what you want. But I will tell you this happens many times throughout the season. Many of us have tried to explain this but it finally happened to PU and so some are seeing it for the first time.

There are many on here that just watch PU games. Others just watch B1G games. You will not see this just watching those games. Our conference does very little of this.

It shouldn't confuse them, but that is not to say it couldn't. Who knows what goes on over those 6 minutes that I listed in their minds and if that affected their shots and such? Matt recruits or has recruited sharp players that are gym rats. The only thing that was different from a 1-2-2 or 3-2 was the extension by the 3 on top playing more man pressure than a zone typically employs. Another problem that could have taken place were the players in a game not suited for a different role. If you review those minutes you will see Mason in the high post I think once and definitely Braden in the high post...where you normally wouldn't see him, but Braden knew what was needed and went there. Arizona is going to score and if you miss shots or throw the ball away they may make a run. Basketball is a game of runs. Purdue had one early and Arizona had one later. We see different runs when two good teams play each other if nothing changes and it happens all the time and has for years.

All that said I have witnessed games where it appeared a zone might have affected the game. I can't logically explain it since you can duplicate it with man if you are willing to give up what a zone gives up, but in those games that were positively and negatively effected by a zone perhaps, it appeared something changed.

Zones do take more organization to attack and teams that are not high IQ teams very easily could have more issues with a zone because it requires organization if a pure zone which is not that common in college since many are matchup if playing zone due to wanting players on players and not give open shots...especially if they don't compensate on the offensive boards. Matt is and has been concerned with the 3 ball in what he does on D and so under the current rules and the 3 pt shot, I imagine Matt continues to play man D not risking what he considers a risk that could be costly.

You believe that the zone was effective and I'm not so sure it was, but there is nothing to suggest you were wrong or that I am right. I just look at the specifics of Zach missing three baskets moments before getting subbed and throwing the ball carelessly away and Lance's two missed Fts and the 2 points taken off Purdue's total when the ref corrects the call and not so sure that was due to a zone, but none of that means I am correct either and I'm guessing or would anticipate you have a lot of forum posters that agree with you...and that is fine. Different opinions are commonplace in forums...

 

[BoilerAndy]

Now that the dust has settled, can someone explain...

Why the refs reviewed the goaltending call well after they had already ruled it as the correct call?

And

Why they changed the call, taking points from Purdue, when the replay clearly showed the ball was in the cylinder when the net was pulled?

Maybe this was explained and I missed it.

 

[PaBoiler78]

Now that the dust has settled, can someone explain...

Why the refs reviewed the goaltending call well after they had already ruled it as the correct call?

And

Why they changed the call, taking points from Purdue, when the replay clearly showed the ball was in the cylinder when the net was pulled?

Maybe this was explained and I missed it.

the announcers said it was outside the cylinder, on replay when the player grabbed the net, the ball was half way out at least to me

 

[Boiler Buck]

the announcers said it was outside the cylinder, on replay when the player grabbed the net, the ball was half way out at least to me

Yes but was it AZs possession arrow then. Or did the refs just ignore that and play on?

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Yes but was it AZs possession arrow then. Or did the refs just ignore that and play on?

I think 'Zona had clear possession at that time.....probably should have been a possession arrow situation. I would have preferred they didn't wait so long to change it....but, that aside, let me say.......on the souls of my grandchildren.....oh wait.....wrong speech......

 

[BoilerAndy]

the announcers said it was outside the cylinder, on replay when the player grabbed the net, the ball was half way out at least to me

That's what I saw. The ball bounced up off of the rim while the net was grabbed. After watching multiple replays, no way it was out of the cylinder.

 

[Dryfly88]

The ball has to be on the rim when the net is grabbed for it to be goaltending (at least that was the explanation the ref gave to Robbie.) He told him it wasn't on the rim at the time the net was grabbed.