DAMMIT YOU PURDUE PEOPLE! STOP STOP BEING SO PRO PURDUE!
just havin' fun with you. Let it go. There's no harm in elevating your school. None at all. Especially when we have a brand/image like Purdue.
Purdue or Illinois
- Thread starter Nerdberts
- Start date
DAMMIT YOU PURDUE PEOPLE! STOP STOP BEING SO PRO PURDUE!
just havin' fun with you. Let it go. There's no harm in elevating your school. None at all. Especially when we have a brand/image like Purdue.
It is true that other than a couple of bad years, Matt's teams have always been good offensive teams. It is true that the bigs touch the ball outside of rebounding it and that a shooter has gotten his looks. It is also true that a special player will thrive in a motion offense where the options are as great as any offense.
The reality is that the shot clock blurs the lines of demarcation a bit between teams. There just isn't enough time for one team to vary a LOT from another since most scoring opportunities take place in a 10 to 15 second window. Where Purdue is really different is the expectation in that short scoring window is to play as a team with a lot of off ball movement and taking a GOOD shot. Other teams may allow more individual play which may result in poorer overall shooting stats for a given individual.
I do agree with this and it's why I've never been a fan of the "Defense Lives Here" thing.
I think other coaches can use that against PU, especially when you're talking about top flight talent looking at the NBA, knowing that the NBA values offense much more than D. NBA talent (like Carsen) have to be given the freedom to showcase their skills, and I think Painter is allowing that.
But, that said, i agree the old perception of PU in the Keady years still persists.
I think one reason the old perception persists is because of negative recruiting. My back door sources say both li'l Archie and the guy at Illinois are using negative recruiting against us. Very uncool in my opinion. Even though Izzo has competed for many more of our recruits, I have never heard of him using negative recruiting against Purdue. For Underwood and Li'l Archie to do it seems pretty rotten. Neither of these accusations are verified at this point. More like hearsay.
Negative recruiting doesn't bother me. This is big boy basketball. If another coach is going to negative recruit against you, then turn the tables.
Big time college BB and FB recruiting is dirty, slimey, ugly business where morals and standards are just lip service. As long as it's not cheating, coaches need to do what it takes to win a recruit.
This is a very common misconception. Sit courtside at an NBA game sometime. The average guy would never get a single shot off. The defense is unbelievable.
what are some exapmles of this negative recruiting? just spin on statistics/historical attributes, or more like claims of cheating, broken promises, etc?
I always imagined much is similar to corporate sales, product A vs product B.
I always imagined much is similar to corporate sales, product A vs product B.
Yeah, the "focus is on offense" because you NEED guys who can score in the NBA since there aren't very many bad defenders who make it. The effort isn't always there on D in the NBA, but that's true at every level.
Spot on. I honestly think they need to increase the dimensions of the floor for the NBA. It just seems too small.
For the purposes of clarification and with the understanding that what you have heard is hearsay, could you please elaborate on what you have heard re negative recruiting by Underwood and Miller?
This is shaky ground for me because of the way this came to me and the relative lack of detail. I got a generalized comment that both coach’s spent time “putting Purdue down”.
I had the impression that style of play and social conditions in West Laffy were the two targets. I agree with the latter but object to the former. However the target comment is only my speculation after the conversation finished.
I think there's 2 reasons for this:
1) most of the NBA players are elite athletes.
2) In the NBA, good offense will beat good defense.
It's the reason why players like Chris Kramer or Rafeal Davis would never get a shot in the NBA. While they're great, shut down defenders, they would be an offensive liability.
That's funny you mention UIUC because that's exactly what Chicagoans say about downstate Illinois.
As a community, I don't think there's much of a difference between Champaign, East Lansing, and greater Lafayette.
I personally don't think there is much difference now-a-days. But 30 yrs ago there was. Demographic statistics show 4% of Tippecanoe Cty is black while Lansing is 22% and Champaign-Urbana is 15%-so certain attitudes and opinions regarding available employment opportunities, entertainment, restaurants, social clubs, etc continue to exist, unfortunately.
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I don't think there is a single black Purdue student who would agree with this. I surely haven't spoken with them all, but have spent time with a representative sample.
This perception may not be accurate - but perception is reality
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I've always preferred that perception may NOT be accurate, but it is a defining criteria in a decision.
I think an athlete (or any student for that matter) on Purdue's campus will be welcomed and accepted everywhere regardless of race, religion, etc. For the most part you are dealing with students who are pretty high-end on average. In my opinion it requires either a very tainted and cloistered childhood or low general intelligence to find issues with someone's race. When I was on the campus, it was very friendly towards all. I doubt that has changed regardless of the racial makeup of the townies.
Historically, Purdue has always had a very high % of international students, and is currently the highest in the B1G at 17% (#15 in the country).
ILL is 2nd in B1G at 16% (#19). Next is MSU at 12% (#36).
Just some info >> https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/most-international
edit; That also means we are #1 of all Power 5 Schools. The 14 ahead of us are not P5. ILL and then Washington (#21 overall) for next P5 schools.
ILL is 2nd in B1G at 16% (#19). Next is MSU at 12% (#36).
Just some info >> https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/most-international
edit; That also means we are #1 of all Power 5 Schools. The 14 ahead of us are not P5. ILL and then Washington (#21 overall) for next P5 schools.
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I didn't mean to indicate that they are not welcomed or accepted. But there is a dramatic difference in how their lives are compared to other campuses. One specific athlete had HS teammates that went to Arkansas, Auburn, and FSU. Their lives were dramatically different than his was here. He noted it, discussed it, compared it, and even accepted that the experience here may help him integrate into society in the future. It isn't that they are demeaned or belittled or anything. It is that they are not idolized and given preferential treatment and even can't find certain things that they really enjoy (the yellow rice and Church's chicken things are real and discussed).
Somebody jump on this, right next to campus.
https://www.franchisehelp.com/franchises/churchs-chicken/
Meyers Leonard: #11 pick and still active six-year NBA player
James Augustine: #41 pick, played 2 years in NBA, still active in EuroLeague
Brian Cook: Big Ten Player of the Year, #24 pick, 9-year NBA career
Robert Archibald: #32 pick, played 2 years in NBA
Marcus Griffin: was a good collegiate player, injuries prevented an NBA career
Admittedly, not a great history, but not as barren as you made it out to be.
A big part of the problem was that Weber and Groce had no success recruiting athletic big men. We had lots of guys like Mike Tisdale, Tyler Griffey and Maverick Morgan, who didn't have near the athletic ability of a guy like Okoro.
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Dude, you are not helping your argument. Cook - okay but from 2003. The other 2? Really? Also from 2002 and before. So basically, I forgot Cook and you added some guys from 16+ years ago. I listed Augustine, owned up to Leonard in the previous post.
Painter's recently success with big development, getting guys into the NBA and winning games easily trump what Illinois can offer. With a talent like Okoro, he would play immediately at both schools.
Listing bigs from 15+ years ago? The only Big 10 team that comes close to Illinois for not producing bigs in recent years is Rutgers.
If it's based on track record, Okoro is going to pick Oregon or Purdue.
U of I's sell is Underwood's offense + the atrocious frontcourt would let him start right away. Okoro has told every reporter that he knows Illinois "really needs him"
The comparison shouldn’t be Illinois vs. Purdue. It should be painter vs Underwood.
Nobody, including underwood, cares about Brian cook et al.
Like I said, it is not an impressive list. He said bigs from Deon Thomas on and asked for help thinking of some more, so I listed the ones that have been good enough to play at least some in the NBA. There were a few others that were decent college players like Mike Davis.
The argument that an Illinois recruiter would make is that one of the main reasons that Illinois has been mediocre to bad the last ten years is because they have not had good big men. That was especially true under Groce who failed to recruit adequate big men for Big Ten competition (and point guards).
What Underwood would say is, look, we've got Trent Frazier and Da'Monte Williams and Ayo coming in at guards. We've got Kipper Nichols (who scored 31 in the last game against Iowa) and Tevian Jones (super athletic 4* recruit) on the wing. All we need is a great big man and now we're back competing for Big 10 championship again in a couple years. You, Francis, are the missing piece. And that is a totally legitimate argument.
The argument that an Illinois recruiter would make is that one of the main reasons that Illinois has been mediocre to bad the last ten years is because they have not had good big men. That was especially true under Groce who failed to recruit adequate big men for Big Ten competition (and point guards).
What Underwood would say is, look, we've got Trent Frazier and Da'Monte Williams and Ayo coming in at guards. We've got Kipper Nichols (who scored 31 in the last game against Iowa) and Tevian Jones (super athletic 4* recruit) on the wing. All we need is a great big man and now we're back competing for Big 10 championship again in a couple years. You, Francis, are the missing piece. And that is a totally legitimate argument.
I think that is reasonable and Purdue can make the same argument in what they have this year and down teh road...as well as data showing touches to score rather than just scoring in transition and boarding the ball. Both have their selling points..and both are legit. I just think Purdue has a longer relationship and less hypothetical situations for the Big guy...a little clearer picture perhaps...
Yeah, it's going to be interesting.
As an Illinois fan, I would hate to see Okoro go to Purdue. It would be just like Keita Bates-Diop going to Ohio State or Charles Matthews going to Michigan. Can you imagine how much better Illinois would have been with either/both of those guys the last couple years?
Or even going back a few years more, Illinois fans thought Evan Turner was a lock and then he committed to Ohio State seemingly out of the blue. That guy personally beat Illinois several times throughout his career. How much of a difference would he have made if he were playing with his high school teammate, Demetri McCamey?
oh yes, Purdue is fully aware of instate recruits that went out of state...some really good ones
The state of Indiana has lots of really great basketball players. The problem for us is that none of them ever go to Illinois. We had Jalen Coleman-Lands for a couple years, but before that you have to go back like 30 years. We did have this really good Indiana player committed for a year, but you know how that went.
I know it's a big problem for Purdue that they are recruiting against IU, Notre Dame and even Butler for in-state guys. I don't know what you would do without Illinois players.
Except for Lew-Jack, not sure why Painter has even bothered to go into IL to recruit? K Stephens, Simpsion, Minnoy,Anthony Johnson, Marcus Green were all disappointments...........However, I sure hope he can land Okoro.
probably have to recruit Ohio (Dakota, Vince), Texas (Carsen), Alabama (Haas),, Michigan (Trevon Williams), Jacquil Taylor (Maryland?) and Wheeler from Rhode Island..perhaps a bit farther to find some players...
probably have to recruit Ohio (Dakota, Vince), Texas (Carsen), Alabama (Haas),, Michigan (Trevon Williams), Jacquil Taylor (Maryland?) and Wheeler from Rhode Island..perhaps a bit farther to find some players...
True. I guess I'm still stuck in the Everette Stephens and Melvin McCants days.
Well, those were good days. The fact is there is a lot of talent in Ill, IN, Ohio and Michigan day in and day out...
Thank you!! Illinois is actually the harder school to get accepted into. That itself doesn't tell the whole story but the University of Illinois is no joke.
I have many friends who went to Purdue for Engineering and some for Aviation. It is a great school. No need to put down Illinois to make yourselves look better.
The two schools are very similar in their STEM emphasis.
The two schools are very similar in their STEM emphasis.
Source?
A quick search shows Illini accept 66%, Purdue 55%, but I didn't dig too deep on the sources.
Unless you have some other metric, it would appear your post is, at best, incorrect.
(edited to be nice.)
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I don't know. Nojel Eastern was a pretty good pick-up.
Ask Boudreaux which school is superior. We all know that he chose Purdue because he wanted to stay in the Ivy League.
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