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Purdue at Rutgers: MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD

Heavy legs was the term I was looking for earlier. He has no spring to him. Also why he is a poor rebounder imo.

Yep heavy legs, great term for it. Would not surprise me if a frosh is not our starting 4 next year. TKR has played great in some games disappears in others. Ball sticks with him and he has some rebounding issues. All that leaves the door open. TKR might best be served @ the 5 where his skill set seems to work a higher % of the time.
 
Loyer at the top of his "boys" list. Apparently does no wrong....30 mins, no defense, 1 fg with 5 fts late, 0 rebs, 1 assist. TKR 19 mins with 2 rebs. He's not the rebounder that I thought that he was. Slow off of the floor.
Bench can't contribute when they don't get a chance. Hope that doesn't haunt us later. I like the win, but still a lot that concerns me.
It was good for Purdue. I love that Purdue had to have poise and execute when the whistle was not friendly in a hostile arena where the home team had it going feeling confident while the visitors had that monkey on the back squeezing those paws in until Purdue was able to shake it off. Purdue needed a close game to win under that scenario IMO
 
Purdue alums and fans, I love this version of your team. I hope this is the year Matt Painter can take them to the Final Four. I believe Lance Jones is the quickness you haven't had in a while. And Edey looks like he's on a mission. Your team is well balanced, so if one of your main shooters, like Loyer, has an off day, others pick him up. Painter is one of my favorite coaches, and I wish you all a lot of luck. Congrats!
 
You're exactly right. It's on both coaches and the players. It's just that people rave about our bench being so deep. It doesn't appear to be based off of distribution of mins.
Deep doesn’t mean equal. Even the starters are not equal in what they bring. Subbing more might have worked out, but what if it didn’t? Can you imagine this site? Matt subs and Purdue loses? What happens? Matt subs and zpurdue wins? Does either make the fans happy?
 
You're exactly right. It's on both coaches and the players. It's just that people rave about our bench being so deep. It doesn't appear to be based off of distribution of mins.
sometimes it seems to be an illusion, you see what this team got but then it's not because it's not being used.
 
Purdue alums and fans, I love this version of your team. I hope this is the year Matt Painter can take them to the Final Four. I believe Lance Jones is the quickness you haven't had in a while. And Edey looks like he's on a mission. Your team is well balanced, so if one of your main shooters, like Loyer, has an off day, others pick him up. Painter is one of my favorite coaches, and I wish you all a lot of luck. Congrats!
Thanx RU from a fellow E. Coaster
 
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Purdue alums and fans, I love this version of your team. I hope this is the year Matt Painter can take them to the Final Four. I believe Lance Jones is the quickness you haven't had in a while. And Edey looks like he's on a mission. Your team is well balanced, so if one of your main shooters, like Loyer, has an off day, others pick him up. Painter is one of my favorite coaches, and I wish you all a lot of luck. Congrats!
Rutgers has improved a lot since Pikiell has been there. Defense has been physical and very solid. Seems to recruit a lot of players that score off the bounce…individual scoring players
 
This was a tale of two halves. Again. I don't understand it. A week ago the point differential was +223 for the first and +79 for the second. And the last 2 games have made that split worse.
 
Keep reading I listed elsewhere. I’m old and not easily impressed. 😊
Haha so much to go through but I agree with you. I’m biased but at least Robbie knows Purdue and also all of the other B1G teams and can speak to each one. Laphonso and Brando has no clue about either team and Brando was down right awful and corny. It seemed they both wanted to Rutgers to win …maybe it was due to them being bored the first half….I don’t know.

I do like Bilas for espn but we won’t have him again since big ten is out with espn. Jay Williams is horrid so I’m glad we don’t have to listen to him from espn. Like him in the studio but not on the call.

But yeah, Fox announcers were awful today. Hope we don’t have to hear from them again.
 
Deep doesn’t mean equal. Even the starters are not equal in what they bring. Subbing more might have worked out, but what if it didn’t? Can you imagine this site? Matt subs and Purdue loses? What happens? Matt subs and zpurdue wins? Does either make the fans happy?
Definitely agree with that question in your last sentence. Fans are never happy and everybody has an opinion.
I'm definitely not looking for equal, but would be nice to see a few more mins from the bench when you have 2 starters that aren't contributing much offensively.
 
How many boards should averaging in your opinion?
I just don't like our rebounding when Zack is out of the game. We seem to get abused often when he is out. TKR not scoring or even shooting much, I'd like to see more than 2 rebs in 19 mins. On the season, he's in the range of 2/3 of where I'd like to see him at per 40.
 
Purdue alums and fans, I love this version of your team. I hope this is the year Matt Painter can take them to the Final Four. I believe Lance Jones is the quickness you haven't had in a while. And Edey looks like he's on a mission. Your team is well balanced, so if one of your main shooters, like Loyer, has an off day, others pick him up. Painter is one of my favorite coaches, and I wish you all a lot of luck. Congrats!
You from Jersey? What exit?
 
Haha so much to go through but I agree with you. I’m biased but at least Robbie knows Purdue and also all of the other B1G teams and can speak to each one. Laphonso and Brando has no clue about either team and Brando was down right awful and corny. It seemed they both wanted to Rutgers to win …maybe it was due to them being bored the first half….I don’t know.

I do like Bilas for espn but we won’t have him again since big ten is out with espn. Jay Williams is horrid so I’m glad we don’t have to listen to him from espn. Like him in the studio but not on the call.

But yeah, Fox announcers were awful today. Hope we don’t have to hear from them again.
Brando spent most of his time trying to get catch phrases in. Was a lot of verbal grab..s between him and LaPhonso.
 
Definitely agree with that question in your last sentence. Fans are never happy and everybody has an opinion.
I'm definitely not looking for equal, but would be nice to see a few more mins from the bench when you have 2 starters that aren't contributing much offensively.
I understand much more in other games the subbing. Since Matt has a different opinion, why do you think it so? I ask this for no reason other than for you to attempt to guess what you think he may be thinking.

You and he want to win. You and he want each player to be the best player each can be. You and he probably share almost 100% of the same desires, but have different approaches towards reaching those goals.

You could be right, but you and all of us in the forum have no say and so why does Matt share so much with you and the forum and yet differ in the process.

I’m not looking for a Matt is always right and by default others are wrong, just an attempt at understanding what he may be thinkingn
 
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..playing on an away court with a rabid fanbase against a team that ain't half bad at home.
Purdue played hard AND was focused. When that happens and you are generally a good rebounding team, but not this game and now there are more turnovers than some, a slow whistle can affect both of those if you have a physical team that really wants to grind that is defensively oriented and a bit stronger
 
Rutgers has improved a lot since Pikiell has been there. Defense has been physical and very solid. Seems to recruit a lot of players that score off the bounce…individual scoring players

They have two really good players (5*'s) coming in next year I think as well.....Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper. Pikiell has definitely raised the program's profile - he's a good coach, although I don't like some of the physical defense....but that's more of an indictment on the conference.
 
Brando spent most of his time trying to get catch phrases in. Was a lot of verbal grab..s between him and LaPhonso.
He said something really stupid that I recalled at the time but moved on to the game events. FWIW Kim for the first time I can ever recall turned on the volume from the phone to listen on line.
 
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They have two really good players (5*'s) coming in next year I think as well.....Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper. Pikiell has definitely raised the program's profile - he's a good coach, although I don't like some of the physical defense....but that's more of an indictment on the conference.
The refs can stop that if they would. I saw Butler yesterday and those refs were horrible. I made a comment that they were worst than the Big, but similar to what hastens in the tourney sometims
 
This was a tale of two halves. Again. I don't understand it. A week ago the point differential was +223 for the first and +79 for the second. And the last 2 games have made that split worse.
I see that differential and I think Purdue is playing to hang on by having longer possessions, being less aggressive and shortening the bench.
 
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I understand much more in other games the subbing. Since Matt has a different opinion, why do you think it so? I ask this for no reason other than for you to attempt to guess what you think he may be thinking.

You and he want to win. You and he want each player to be the best player each can be. You and he probably share almost 100% of the same desires, but have different approaches towards reaching those goals.

You could be right, but you and all of us in the forum have no say and so why does Matt share so much with you and the forum and yet differ in the process.

I’m not looking for a Matt is always right and by default others are wrong, just an attempt at understanding what he may be thinkingn
Oh I totally understand where you are coming from. Every bit of it. I suspect he believes in this group and feels a lot more comfortable with these, basically 6 or 7 getting the bulk of the mins especially on the road in a hostile environment.
With a lot of opinions in this forum, I think it's more of a concern of, "what happens in the tournament" if we get to a point where we desperately need a different look for a different type of matchup than what we see in the BT, I'd like to have full confidence in a few more guys, and maybe we get to that point by March.
 
Haha so much to go through but I agree with you. I’m biased but at least Robbie knows Purdue and also all of the other B1G teams and can speak to each one. Laphonso and Brando has no clue about either team and Brando was down right awful and corny. It seemed they both wanted to Rutgers to win …maybe it was due to them being bored the first half….I don’t know.

I do like Bilas for espn but we won’t have him again since big ten is out with espn. Jay Williams is horrid so I’m glad we don’t have to listen to him from espn. Like him in the studio but not on the call.

But yeah, Fox announcers were awful today. Hope we don’t have to hear from them again.
On CBS next Sunday, right before the final round at Pebble. Probably have that “mantoman” goofball Raferty.
 
This was a tale of two halves. Again. I don't understand it. A week ago the point differential was +223 for the first and +79 for the second. And the last 2 games have made that split worse.
I would have thought the 1st half would have been poorer than the 2nd due to getting used to playing in that bandbox of an arena
 
Definitely agree with that question in your last sentence. Fans are never happy and everybody has an opinion.
I'm definitely not looking for equal, but would be nice to see a few more mins from the bench when you have 2 starters that aren't contributing much offensively.
I understand that and it is a reasonable request. When you say someone isn't contributing are you saying not scoring? If that is not contributing then only maybe Braden and Zach contributed on offense with a small spurt by Mason in the first half. No doubt someone or a few or all need to score depending on a perspective, but does that mean someone not scoring is not contributing on offense?

There is no correct answer, but some would say that having a shooter just standing in a spot ready to shoot even if he doesn't shoot is contributing to the offense since it affects the D. Others might see a PG ...say Braden not score much against IU (I thought he was excellent other than his shot didn't drop) and say he isn't contributing much offensively and others might say Zach didn't contribute much offensively in other games or even Lance today. I think you can contribute on offense without scoring, but somewhere at some time...someone must score and preferably if possible a lot of players score.

So Fletch contributes offensively even if he isn't scoring...maybe or maybe not as much as another but he is "a" focal point of the D. Matt is looking at a "team" effect that sometimes blurs individual appraisaIs from others. I know what you are saying...it is just hard to put a definitive rating on a player that doesn't score as to how much he contributes. Same with a player doing things he shouldn't missing a lot of bad shots or turning it over, late on screens, poor screens, not handling it much, ball sticks, and yet scoring. Matt's teams don't have the same individual play as some teams and therefore is more difficult to appraise in how much a player contributes, but I fully understand when a player isn't scoring the flip side of that dependent on whether that player is a focal point for the other team or just a guy now playing that is not a focal point...and to your point it is also possible the non focal point could score easierand who knows how he mixes with others. NO easy answer in defining who contributes on offense.
 
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It’s all Morton’s fault. All his turnovers and missed threes…oh wait. And his guy scored sometimes. You know in most games he plays the best guard or three, right?
I agree, he is solid and aggressive. If you don't make any mistakes, you are not working hard enough
 
I see that differential and I think Purdue is playing to hang on by having longer possessions, being less aggressive and shortening the bench.
very possible. I'll add that Rutgers missed a lot of wide open shots the first half and yet had the game within 4 or 5 potential 3s should they go down. I suspect Matt believed they would knock some down in the second half and wanted to keep feeding Zach and not be in a hurry.

IF you don't turn it over and hit FTs if they foul you that you can just eat clock and hand them the ball and they still can't win and so sometimes as you suggest (although that approach would only be in final minutes depending on score and not the second half) a long clock is desirable. You may not win as big as you could, but you decrease the risk of losing if you don't turn it over and then hit FTs if fouled.
 
I know the ownership, but the coverage is different when covered by the big network than when on Fox. Hate to see Bill R, Gus, Bilas, Ellis. Robbie is best, can take Bardo, a bit of Morris and a little of Jimmie. Have liked Special K in the past
I got a kid at ole Miss and watched their game last night, the broadcast can get worse.
 
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I understand that and it is a reasonable request. When you say someone isn't contributing are you saying not scoring? If that is not contributing then only maybe Braden and Zach contributed on offense with a small spurt by Mason in the first half. No doubt someone or a few or all need to score depending on a perspective, but does that mean someone not scoring is not contributing on offense?

There is no correct answer, but some would say that having a shooter just standing in a spot ready to shoot even if he doesn't shoot is contributing to the offense since it affects the D. Others might see a PG ...say Braden not score much against IU (I thought he was excellent other than his shot didn't drop) and say he isn't contributing much offensively and others might say Zach didn't contribute much offensively in other games or even Lance today. I think you can contribute on offense without scoring, but somewhere at some time...someone must score and preferably if possible a lot of players score.

So Fletch contributes offensively even if he isn't scoring...maybe or maybe not as much as another but he is "a" focal point of the D. Matt is looking at a "team" effect that sometimes blurs individual appraisaIs from others. I know what you are saying...it is just hard to put a definitive rating on a player that doesn't score as to how much he contributes. Same with a player doing things he shouldn't missing a lot of bad shots or turning it over, late on screens, poor screens, not handling it much, ball sticks, and yet scoring. Matt's teams don't have the same individual play as some teams and therefore is more difficult to appraise in how much a player contributes, but I fully understand when a player isn't scoring the flip side of that dependent on whether that player is a focal point for the other team or just a guy now playing that is not a focal point...and to your point it is also possible the non focal point could score easierand who knows how he mixes with others. NO easy answer in defining who contributes on offense.
I agree with a lot of this and enjoy your perspective. I definitely understand that say in the case with Fletch, (and not trying to run him down because I think he is very important to this team) it's just some of his off shooting games, he is an important piece still by always at least the thought that he is deadly from 3 and can't leave him open, but essentially a zero stat line outside of 5 free throws late (still important) and imo a lot of times a liability defensively, to me, I am a little quicker to try other options. In a single elimination tournament, I worry about not making adjustments timely. Braden typically contributes a lot even when not scoring with handling the ball, assists, rebounds well. Jones an excellent stat line today even tho only 4 points. Just not much to say about Fletcher's numbers on paper besides the fact that he spreads the floor offensively, but most of our guards command attention outside of Morton.
 
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I understand that and it is a reasonable request. When you say someone isn't contributing are you saying not scoring? If that is not contributing then only maybe Braden and Zach contributed on offense with a small spurt by Mason in the first half. No doubt someone or a few or all need to score depending on a perspective, but does that mean someone not scoring is not contributing on offense?

There is no correct answer, but some would say that having a shooter just standing in a spot ready to shoot even if he doesn't shoot is contributing to the offense since it affects the D. Others might see a PG ...say Braden not score much against IU (I thought he was excellent other than his shot didn't drop) and say he isn't contributing much offensively and others might say Zach didn't contribute much offensively in other games or even Lance today. I think you can contribute on offense without scoring, but somewhere at some time...someone must score and preferably if possible a lot of players score.

So Fletch contributes offensively even if he isn't scoring...maybe or maybe not as much as another but he is "a" focal point of the D. Matt is looking at a "team" effect that sometimes blurs individual appraisaIs from others. I know what you are saying...it is just hard to put a definitive rating on a player that doesn't score as to how much he contributes. Same with a player doing things he shouldn't missing a lot of bad shots or turning it over, late on screens, poor screens, not handling it much, ball sticks, and yet scoring. Matt's teams don't have the same individual play as some teams and therefore is more difficult to appraise in how much a player contributes, but I fully understand when a player isn't scoring the flip side of that dependent on whether that player is a focal point for the other team or just a guy now playing that is not a focal point...and to your point it is also possible the non focal point could score easierand who knows how he mixes with others. NO easy answer in defining who contributes on offense.
Yes exactly thank you TJ. Agree 💯
 
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I agree with a lot of this and enjoy your perspective. I definitely understand that say in the case with Fletch, (and not trying to run him down because I think he is very important to this team) it's just some of his off shooting games, he is an important piece still by always at least the thought that he is deadly from 3 and can't leave him open, but essentially a zero stat line outside of 5 free throws late (still important) and imo a lot of times a liability defensively, to me, I am a little quicker to try other options. In a single elimination tournament, I worry about not making adjustments timely. Braden typically contributes a lot even when not scoring with handling the ball, assists, rebounds well. Jones an excellent stat line today even tho only 4 points. Just not much to say about Fletcher's numbers on paper besides the fact that he spreads the floor offensively, but most of our guards command attention outside of Morton.
We all tend to think that Colvin or Heide are the immediate answer but never think what if they are even worse in the game? And Loyer actually IS the right play to keep the defense honest. He draws his man away from the post because they HAVE to pay attention to fletch.

What if Rutgers just attacks Myles 5 straight trips and they score each time? Or how cam struggled shooting today…just didn’t seem comfortable and therefore wasn’t that much bette than loyer. It’s not always an easy solution just subbing in 1 for 1 and it’s going to work 100%.

Btw I love Heide and Colvin and want them to play more but do recognize that it’s not always the solution to just sub out Loyer right away if he’s off shooting.
 
I agree with a lot of this and enjoy your perspective. I definitely understand that say in the case with Fletch, (and not trying to run him down because I think he is very important to this team) it's just some of his off shooting games, he is an important piece still by always at least the thought that he is deadly from 3 and can't leave him open, but essentially a zero stat line outside of 5 free throws late (still important) and imo a lot of times a liability defensively, to me, I am a little quicker to try other options. In a single elimination tournament, I worry about not making adjustments timely. Braden typically contributes a lot even when not scoring with handling the ball, assists, rebounds well. Jones an excellent stat line today even tho only 4 points. Just not much to say about Fletcher's numbers on paper besides the fact that he spreads the floor offensively, but most of our guards command attention outside of Morton.
I fully understand your reasoning...AND those FTs were HUGE. Miss them and who knows? I think he shot 4 shots will the team not defend him on the fifth? Can he make 4 in a row? Those are always in the back of Matt's head. I've posted this a lot and unsure many people agree or just don't read it or forget it. A coach can change things too quickly and too late. There is NO correct answer for all conditions. In a close game it can be swung either way in a two minute stretch? Even when the game is over some may state that he needed to not change things or he should have changed things quicker, but the reality is the assumption that either way could be worse and we don't know it. Personally, I think of coaching like teaching. They can learn the X and Os, but some relate better, some have better classroom management, but ultimately it is an art that the great ones either have or they don't.

Now, what typically happens with Fletch on D is that he has to defend a bigger player most the time, not just in height, but physically as well. He knows where to be and so he doesn't hurt the other players by being lost...he just gets physically hurt on D when the whistle is swallowed sometimes. That said...what if he shoots three more...do they go in or does he make the right pass or drive the ball and get to the line. As hard as it is to know what is going to happen as to whether he makes a huge basket or whether he has difficulty on D is something I'm sure Matt struggles with as well. Matt sees this and plays offense and defense with him towards the end of the game if close a lot....but you need to make sure he is playing when you have the ball and so there is another decision where Matt rolls the dice in case he can't sub him without a timeout that he may not want to use.
 
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