Fitzner has attempted over 300 threes in his career and has connected on over 40% of them. That is consistent in any sense of the word imaginable. I don’t know or pretend to know how IU plans to use Fitzner but I’d imagine it’d be in a PnR action with Romeo and if teams aren’t going to attempt to show when Fitzner flashes they will likely pay to a degree. I agree that teams will look to stop Romeo first and foremost, but that is why a guy like Fitzner can be of so much value. His 8 ppg are severely misleading because his ppg went down with his minutes decrease to give way to an AA in front of him. His efficiency and 40 per numbers have all stayed consistent throughout his career. He averaged 8 points in 15 minutes last year, give him 20-25 and I’m not sure that number jumps back up to 10-12 points like it did earlier in his career before Jock stepped on campus.
Post your preseason All-B1G basketball teams
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Fitzner has attempted over 300 threes in his career and has connected on over 40% of them. That is consistent in any sense of the word imaginable. I don’t know or pretend to know how IU plans to use Fitzner but I’d imagine it’d be in a PnR action with Romeo and if teams aren’t going to attempt to show when Fitzner flashes they will likely pay to a degree. I agree that teams will look to stop Romeo first and foremost, but that is why a guy like Fitzner can be of so much value. His 8 ppg are severely misleading because his ppg went down with his minutes decrease to give way to an AA in front of him. His efficiency and 40 per numbers have all stayed consistent throughout his career. He averaged 8 points in 15 minutes last year, give him 20-25 and I’m not sure that number jumps back up to 10-12 points like it did earlier in his career before Jock stepped on campus.
Fitzner has averaged the same number of 3pt attempts a game as Ryan Cline, but has a better percentage.... should teams leave Ryan Cline open too?
So just so we are clear, you are saying that you think Painter should never have Matt Haarms leave the paint to contest a Fitzner shot? You would willingly give up wide open 3 after wide open 3 to a 42% 3pt shooter (3 attemps/game)?
Weird enough, that isn't even the worst take in this thread. Mindboggling.
You might want to distinguish between Premium members and free board types when you mention"peegsters". I rarely go to the free board on Peegs or even the new kids who host the Rivals site. When I do, I always discover posts that betray a lack of info, compared to what Premium members are well versed in. Many Peegs Premie members also visit ITH, so Alex's info is disseminated. But when I read comments on ITH there is a certain amateurish quality to some of the comments- sort of like what you get on The Star or other print media websites...
I said our center won’t dollow him out there.
You are comparing apples to oranges. Cline played in the B1G, Evan didn’t.
He won’t be left wide open as you say, but he also won’t be clearing the lane as IU fans hope. We have the size to switch if needed and our help defense will keep someone of size in the lane at all times when he hangs out on the perimeter. IU hasn’t shown any serious threat from deep from last year, so I am doubtful they are willing to leave the rebounds on offensive possessions to their guards. Morgan will draw much more attention than Fritz...period. If he starts nailing a bunch of 3’s, I would imagine things could change. But 43% on 3 attempts equals about 4 points per game. Not nearly as much of a reason to guard him as you want us to believe.
You're right, I should have distinguished that. I do think that in general, the free board at ITH is still better. However, I rarely even visit the ITH free board myself either because I'm a part of the premium forum there. The real takeaway is that you get better, more educated, level headed discussion in the premium areas than you do in the free areas. I'm sure that's true of the Purdue boards as well. There are ridiculous, uninformed, over the top fans of every team, and from my experience the premium areas kind of weed those people out.
Way to move the goalposts. OF COURSE MORGAN WILL DRAW MORE ATTENTION. No one said he wouldn't. Playing in the B1G vs the WCC has very little to do with a 3pt set shot. Your original statement said that Fitzner won't draw your bigs out of the lane and to "shoot big man shoot" (implying he is a bad shooter).
Painter will defend Fitzner the same way he has defended all stretch bigs in the past. Haarms will be a lot better at it than Haas and Swanigan were, though.
Cline only averages 4 pts/gm too. I would still guard him tightly.
I never moved the goalposts. Haarms mate fills him out there and if so, will surely be better at guarding the perimeter than the guys you mentioned. I think we will see Haarms stay home and switch however since he is a shot blocker/rom protector.
You keep bringing up Cline who is already playing on the perimeter so it’s a horrible comparison
I dont think you understand. Fitzner is way more of a perimeter player than he is an inside the paint player. 60% of his shots at St Mary's were from 3. That makes Cline a very good comparison.
Good information about Fitzner. Before Bay Area posted, I just thought of this player as a second stringer. He sounds much better than that. I suspect that Haarms will indeed, follow him out to the perimeter, while Boudreaux or Wiiliams stays down low to protect and rebound. Haarms has the wing span and height to shut down Fitzner, I think.
The whole idea behind this is to play to your strengths, and hide your weaknesses. No team in the BIG will dominate another at every position. The question will be can Purdue contain Morgan and Romeo, while still guarding Fitzner.? Well that's why we play the game.
The whole idea behind this is to play to your strengths, and hide your weaknesses. No team in the BIG will dominate another at every position. The question will be can Purdue contain Morgan and Romeo, while still guarding Fitzner.? Well that's why we play the game.
And in the same vein, the question for IU is if they can contain Carsen (not stop him, but slow him down) while still keeping a man on Cline and Boudreaux and keeping Haarms from getting easy unguarded layups and dunks. Should be a fun season.
I honestly don't know if you are trolling or not.
I dont know how Fitzner being more of a three point shooter on offense means he isn't a center? He will still guard the opposing team's center on defense. If you mean Morgan will be the "Center" because he will score most of his buckets in the paint, then I guess I agree?
As far as starters go on the defensive end, I would guess Green guards Carsen, Romeo guards Nojel, Smith guards Cline, Morgan guards Evan B, and Fitzner guards Haarms.
Fitzner is a center, albeit he’s not your traditional back to the basket center, and while he’s a legit 6’10, he’s not a great rim protector or rebounder. Fitzner started every game as a true freshman at center which was by far his most productive year. Jock Landsdale is actually a year older, but blew up after his sophomore year. Landale started at center 2 years ago and Fitzner technically started every game at the 4 that year as well, but struggled guarding opposing 4’s and only played about 15 mpg. This last year, SMC started essentially 4 guards and played 4 out with Landsdale in the middle.
Fitzner will never be an all-star for IU but he can be a very valuable asset offensively and can likely hold his own defensively for 20 minutes a night. Have read IU’s other center may not play until later in the year, but if they could get 20 minutes a night out of each it should be a solid rotation. Think Fitzner could struggle guarding veteran bigs like Happ and Ward for an extended period of time. Haarms and Fitzner should be a pretty exciting match-up on both ends of the floor. Don’t think Haarms is there yet offensively to overwhelm Fitzner, but Haarms with his length could keep Fitzner at bay with a nice hedge on ball screen with a quick recovery. That’s about all I got.
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I must say, I’m impressed by your willingness to see and consider other viewpoints and discuss them rationally. There are many on this board that can’t, or won’t, do that. I’m just so ready for basketball season to start so we can all stop conjecturing and start watching games!
Amen season can’t come soon enough I’m so ready for some college basketball
As I clearly stated yesterday, I’ve read this site for some time now (as I’m sure hundreds of other people do without screen names), and only felt compelled to post when Evan Fitzner was brought up as I follow St. Mary’s about as much as I do Purdue these days. If that bothers you, please put me on ignore, but it’s amazing some of the insecurity my fellow Boiler fans display on here when faced with contrarian views.
In fairness, I don't believe you need to have an account (or be logged in) to view posts.
To post you do need to be logged in.
If you watched the 3 games against Michigan last year, they also had a center or five that could play on the perimeter and shoot well from deep. Once that began to happen, we had our 4, Vincent Edwards switch to guard the opposing center on the perimeter and we left our center in the paint.
If IU runs PnR with Fitzner, I could see Haarms following him out to hedge if the ball hamdler is a threat to drive. If it it’s Romeo, sure, but Green...not so much. But if Fitzner wants to hang on the perimeter and not the paint like a traditional five, I would assume Painter will once again switch. But, once again, the guy averages around what, 5 poInye a game?
Personally, I wouldn’t think we will be that concerned with him hitting 40% of 3 attempts. Yeah, 40% is good, but at three attempts a game, it won’t be a focus. He could start shooting more, but the question will be, will his average remain at 40% or will it drop?
True. I followed for quite some time (once I discovered the site) and then eventually joined in on the "fun".
So let's say Painter puts Evan B on Fitzner in your scenario. That leaves Haarms on Morgan... who can also shoot from deep... pulling Haarms away from the basket again. He only took 3 attempts per game, because teams only left him open an average of 3 attempts per game.
Again, Fitzner might be the 5th option in scoring for our starters. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be guarded. A la Ryan Cline...
Exactly. And like I've said before, I have no idea on how IU plans to use Fitzner or what kind of offense Archie Miller runs, but at St. Mary's, Randy Bennett runs one of the best pick and roll offenses in the country and it's all predicated by 4 or 5 guys on the court who can shoot from distance. It's why it's extremely hard to guard and why SMC routinely has KenPom top 20 offenses. They really are the "Wisconsin of the West". They recruit a bunch of unheralded athletes and Aussies and plug them into that system every year. This isn't very relevant to this thread, but here's a link to Randy Bennett's offensive philosophy. If you're a basketball nerd like myself, this is something you can really appreciate.
https://pickandpop.net/2017/05/randy-bennett-clinic-notes/
I would say that we let Morgan shoot that shot too. If you look at last years 3 point stats, IU will need to prove they can hit them before people take them seriously.
If you are going to have both bigs on the perimeter at the same time, who are you expecting to rebound?
IU shot horribly from 3 last year and their best shooter graduated.
For IU to be a team like St. Mary’s last year, they will need a lot of new guys to step up.
I dont expect much in the rebounding department from Fitzner, but Morgan, Smith, and Romeo are all pretty good rebounders. Morgan averaged 3 offensive rebs/gm and Smith averaged 1.5 (only 15 min/gm). Romeo was a really good on the offensive glass in high school.
It will certainly be an entertaining series to watch, and I'm looking forward to it!
Once again, you just put Morgan on the perimeter with an abysmal 30% percentage from long range.
I am not positive what Painter will do, but I feel pretty certain that if Haarms is blocking a lot of shots and Fitzner either doesn’t shoot a lot of 3’s or his percentage takes a hit from more attempts per game, that Painter will try to keep Haarms down low and not have him chase a guy out to the three point line when that’s exactly what teams are wanting.
I agree this season should be pretty hit or miss for both teams. We shall see soon which team overachieves and which one doesn’t.
You dont think a guy thats being left open will shoot at a higher percentage. Or get passed the ball the same amount of times?
I think we will just have to agree to disagree. I dont think there is anyway Painter ganeplans to allow Fitzner, Morgan, or even Smith to have wide open 3s.
as preseason ratings go, and the accuracy of such, it should be noted that Carsen Edwards was not included in the INDY Star's preseason first or second team last year.
I will also point out that just because BIG 10 . org did not publish an all freshmen team, that doesn't mean one is not being published by somebody else. and I have to believe it wil include Langford's name.
https://www.indystar.com/story/spor...ch-ostermans-preseason-predictions/750810001/
I will also point out that just because BIG 10 . org did not publish an all freshmen team, that doesn't mean one is not being published by somebody else. and I have to believe it wil include Langford's name.
https://www.indystar.com/story/spor...ch-ostermans-preseason-predictions/750810001/
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Again, I don't know why Morgan has to be relegated to the perimeter? Everything I saw from Morgan last year indicates he can score inside and out as well as take bigger defenders off the bounce. With a true pick and pop 5 in Fitzner, I suspect you'll see more high ball screens with Fitzner this year and Morgan will have secondary action either diving or cutting backside baseline. The point of having your big(s) out on the perimeter is to draw the other teams bigs away from the basket. It would seem IU with Fitzner, would have the luxury of starting him at the top of the key, with the offense starting on either sideline with a 2 man game going on with whoever is handling the ball and Morgan on the block. With Fitzner at the top of the key, it draws Haarms away from the basket where from there Morgan has post up position without someone like Haarms backside. If Haarms cheats it's a kick out to Fitzner for a three, if he honors Fitzner's shooting ability, who ever passes into Morgan sets a screen on Haarms and you have Fitzner flaring over the top for a kick out three.
There's just so much different action you can use when you have someone like Fitzner who is a threat to shoot from deep. Now IU obviously doesn't have the personnel like St. Mary's does to be a dominant pick and roll offense, but IU has athletes who can create dribble-drive without the use of a ball screen.
Really? Maybe I'm wrong here, but I thought I had been pretty civil and stuck to the topic being discussed. I haven't gotten angry with anyone or trolled at all, IMO. I'm sorry if you feel that I have.
That's not necessarily solely attributed to hitting 3 points. He has the ability to not only score in the paint but also generate offense away from the basket. You couldn't say the same thing for someone like Haas last year.
Quick look at Juwan's stats last year suggest he was an abysmal three point shooter to start the year but in the B10 shot 38% from three which is very respectable for somebody 6'8. Would never characterize Morgan as a reliant 3 point shooter, but you definitely have to honor his shot.
Don't know a whole lot about this site, The Big Lead, and preseason rankings are just guesses, but they just ranked the top 50 players in college basketball and put Carsen in at #5. Romeo at #9. Don't think I completely agree with the top 10 though, as the top 4 ahead of Carsen are all freshman. That seems a bit much to me.
Quickly scanning through, I think the only other BIG players are James Palmer at #36, Brad Davidson at #37 (What??? He's not as good as Palmer), Charles Matthews at #46 and Ethan Happ at #43.
Quickly scanning through, I think the only other BIG players are James Palmer at #36, Brad Davidson at #37 (What??? He's not as good as Palmer), Charles Matthews at #46 and Ethan Happ at #43.
As far as my B10 predictions go, they are as follows
1. Michigan State
2. Michigan
3. Indiana
4. Purdue
5. Nebraska
6. Ohio State
7. Maryland
8. Wisconsin
9. Minnesota
10. Penn State
11. Iowa
12. Illinois
13. Northwestern
14. Rutgers
First team all-B10
Carsen Edwards POY
Ethan Happ
Juwan Morgan
Stevens
Mathews
1. Michigan State
2. Michigan
3. Indiana
4. Purdue
5. Nebraska
6. Ohio State
7. Maryland
8. Wisconsin
9. Minnesota
10. Penn State
11. Iowa
12. Illinois
13. Northwestern
14. Rutgers
First team all-B10
Carsen Edwards POY
Ethan Happ
Juwan Morgan
Stevens
Mathews
I would put Neb, Mary, and Wisc ahead of Purdue.
They lost 4 starters and have too many IFS to be up at 4.
Aside from Carsen, they have no special players, as of yet.
Someone might step forward, but until they do, Carsen is out on an island; carrying the Boilers on his back.
Probably Nebraska. I'm not sure what to think of Wisconsin....I just don't know beyond Happ, but maybe. Maryland SHOULD be a good team....but Turgeon seems to have a way of ruining good teams. I'm surprised he's still there, honestly.
Possibly, but
1 legit point and 1 part-time big can take a team to the Final 4..
A huge factor, tho, is coaching.
=====
Indiana's cupboard isn't bare, but a lot of their pieces are incredibly green. I do think Romeo will make an All Big Team (+?), but I think Indiana is going to need, at minimum, a couple of consistent scorers to emerge before they're considered a real contender.
Purdue lost more than Indiana this offseason, but bring back just as much talent overall. Love the Ivy pickup, hope he has a great run for the Boilers these next couple seasons.
When I look at Purdue's roster, who's the first big off the bench going to be? Should he be serviceable and should Eastern make that SO jump, Purdue's potential is obvious.
I do like The Hoosiers ts, but if they can't find the shooting or a reliable ring leader, this IU-PU battle is going to be insatiable for outside fans. I can see both teams finishing the season close- anywhere in the 4-6 range; and it seems easy to see how (either) one might top 4, and the other bottom 4.
As a fan, I hope it's neck and neck all season long.
Would be Awesome.
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