True, but help gets to them faster in a zone. It is all about helping the player in foul trouble asap!
Painter Being Painter
- Thread starter ghostoffatjack
- Start date
And you struggle with the fact that Painter likely does the exact same thing you did?
I suspect that your approach and Painter's approach aren't that different.
Having a 7'4" guy on an island at the top of the key when their guard blows by to the basket seems pretty obvious. Granted as big as Edey is he can make up the distance in a hurry, but why put him in that position in the first place?
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Matt is very much listening to his assistants and leaves a lot to PJ on offense as well as Terry Johnson and Paul Lusk on D. This year he actually has two people assigned to defense. This is during the games. You can add previous players in various positions to add their thoughts as well. Unlike before college he probably has much less conversations on playing time...and/or player relations.
A decent amount of the game, Zach was in the lane playing a one man zone. Matt typically does this if there is someone that the other team is playing that isn't a threat on the perimeter. This dates back to AJ and maybe started with IU? I remember specifically Crean not playing 5 behind the arc to possibly pull AJ away from the goal when Yogi was there...and maybe before.
The real trouble on D was when Zach wasn't playing. I was disappointed knowing the two bigs (Trey/Caleb) would be needed next year to play a lot more ...with half of that on D. That said, changes will be made to try to put them in better position to defend better knowing Zach is not able to patrol the paint.
It will be interesting to see what Purdue does when at Illinois. I suspect Purdue goes to Zach more early...to get him going earlier and possibly draw some fouls earlier. You know Underwood will try to play more behind the arc and clear out a bit for Domask since that was successful. I suspect Purdue goes "bigger" a bit more on Domask unless 1,2 and 3 are scoring well and then Matt will ride all three a bit. If not, could see one being displaced a little more for a bigger body on Domask. Ethan had him a decent amount and can see him doing it again...with maybe adding a few minutes for Cam...again if one of the three are not on offensively. If Ethan is in there or anticipated I suspect Matt adds a counter figuring ethan is going to play to help get the ball to Zach more. I did like the backscreen or dive (unsure right now, but set up for a backscreen) for Zach to dump to Mason where he pump faked, used the rim and went with his left hand.
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I hope Myles gets it going as well. What Fletcher does at this time that Myles cannot do on offense is move the ball, make the pass and handle it against quicker pressure. Myles plays a lot slower. As of now, Myles almost always goes to the baseline as a spot up shooter should his defender help off him. This allows Myles as a threat to spread the D, but will lose its' effectiveness if he doesn't start hitting those shots soon.
Fletcher is more versatile on O at this time...and he should be having better high school preparation and a year with a LOT of minutes of playing time. Fletcher does not stand in the corner in case someone is not defending him looking for a spot up shot. Instead he helps facilitate the offense. Some of those drives for Fletcher and to a lessor extent for Braden is to get the ball on the glass where a moving Zach can get to it as Zach carves out space moving down the lane. Some of those are not good looks as you say.
I was a bit disappointed that we didn’t go to Zach a lot early in the game to get Hawkins in foul trouble. I was actually baffled by it to be honest.
Because it's
Because it's better than the alternative if you don't have the personnel to effectively run something different?
...and it showed up at the end. Hence what I said moments ago as Hawkins spent more time on the court than Zach. It is a balancing act as you know, but Purdue has to continue to look for Zach and not get too far from using him. I think this is a game and a half at this time where he was somewhat not involved. That said I suspect Underwood suspects the same thing...and probably defends Zach the same way with some of that having Harding (sp?) fronting and Hawkins to help backside on the lob. Key for Mason/Trey primarily to be shooting well so that Hawkins either defends Zach directly or is tied up on a shooter more. Last night I stopped the game a bit to show Kim Harding fronting Zach and Hawkins no where near Trey on the perimeter. Said if Trey moved down a bit to make Hawkins cover him...zach could just walk inside the arc and receive a pass near the rim over the little guard fronting him...but you have to pull Hawkins out. AS we know Trey did hit a huge wide open three at the top...
We have the personnel. Stranding your center at the top of the key never makes sense. He is most effective near the basket. He is our "rim protector" and running him out there works him more. Let someone else cover the other teams center that far out. Painter is doing what he thinks is best, the team is #1 so I have little to complain about. But you asked and so I pointed out what I think is obvious. You don't play your 7'4" 300 lb center 20 to 25 feet away from the basket. To me it is something that always surprises me. When I played, I would have loved for the other teams center to roll out to the top of the key on defense. I would have gone to the hole every time. But I was never the athlete that these guys are and I won't pretend that I was. They play their guts out and that is a credit to them and to Painter.
Refresh my memory on how many national championships Booby won?
Now explain to us how Booby would have won more if he what, played zone?
As a coach one would grasp that the more time you play ONE defense the better you should get at it.
Versus playing a zone half a**ed because you don't play it much. (and we do not have the athletes to make up for that)
As they are such different concepts VERY few teams play both well. The teams you see with admirable zone defenses play zone most of the time.
Trade offs. Always.
Then you clearly know better than the 5th winningest coach in B1G history.
Knight was the second winningest coach in BT history and there were things I clearly knew better than he did. Like not to choke a player, not to throw a chair across the floor, not to throw things at your athletic director, not to grab students, so what is your point?
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One of the larger reaches I've ever seen. Which of those things were factors in his winning all those games?
I thought that Purdue’s approach worked well though, until Edey got into foul trouble, which I thought was unrelated to going to TKR a lot early. TKR and Gillis are really stepping up and forcing the D to defend them which should only help Zach get better opportunities in the long run. As much as I love when Zach is featured, I think that it is the versatility of this year’s offense that gives me confidence relative to the way that last season ended.
Agree with this. The fact that the game was close give posters a chance to rehash where they disagree with Painter's approach.
Zach picked up two stupid fouls in ways that he almost never does. One on the screen and the other where he leaves his feet on a shot fake near the basket and fouls the shooter. If he plays those the way he normally does, Purdue wins by 20 and posters have to keep thinking in their head how Painter is making the wrong moves rather than posting it here.
It did work well and I "didn't intend to imply it never". It is a balancing act and no doubt Zach could have seen the ball more than he did. Should Purdue force it...no. This is another function of the clock which makes it "more difficult" to find Zach if another team plays hard on him early. Matt is not going to say, nah pass up a good shot and get a better one with the clock winding down...particularly against Illinois. Therefore Purdue took the opportunity to score and if I recall correctly it was 20 to 4 after five minutes, validation that it worked well early in particular as far as scoring...which as we know is important.
Still I believe the team is able to find the same success scoring as they did had Zach seen the ball 4 or 5 times more than he did the first half. That is all I'm saying. I do not know the possession number , but will assume that at least 30 possessions were in the first half. What is a reasonable number that the NPOY should get without forcing the ball to him?
Keep all engaged and do not become "as" one dimensional even if it includes more than one player. It seems to me that Zach's FT shooting is not as good if he doesn't see the ball a bit more and of course we know he is not drawing fouls and removing players. I like and made mention in the first game played that the team was playing with Zach and not so much through him...and think it is GREAT. I believe this is a game and a half this has happened.
In my opinion you are absolutely correct in that taking what was the easy play worked. I like to see that, BUT I'm aware of the trade offs in spite of the short term success and it is a balancing act that is hard to achieve. I do NOT want to see Purdue play through Zach most of the time, but I don't want him left out much either and so it is a tightwire act, but in no way do I want the ball to go where it shouldn't by forcing a pass AND in no way do I want to take out the others mentally from the game by force feeding Zach. Keeping all involved is tough at times, but there is always video for improvement even when winning a big game. I think I agree with all you said, but only add that Purdue still needs to not let the other team take Zach out, just by making it more difficult for him to receive passes and yet balance that out by NOT forcing the ball either.
the less we MUST force the ball into Zach, the better this team is.
Well those things not only cost Knight some wins, they cost him his job. You want another one? Izzo is the winningest coach in the BT and 1) I believe he should stop covering for players charged with rape, assault, battery and at least suspend them from the team. 2) along with other university coaches and administrators, not ignore complaints about doctors abusing athletes. Did that cost them some games? Probably not at the time, but the last few years it has hammered MSU.
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