Overall Plus/Minus for each BIG Team

[TrojanFan004]

He hasn't played a single college game yet and are already claiming that his offensive output is going to be similar to Nojel's? How does that work?

Ah now you are moving the goalposts from your previous posts as I clearly had you there. When you get real data to back up your opinion, we can continue that conversation.

As for why I believe Morton will have a similar output to Eastern, I believe I’ve already stated this numerous times. Morton, like Eastern, does not shoot it well from deep (at least based on the data readily available). Guards/Wings in Painter’s offense that don’t shoot well historically have not performed well in Painter’s offense. Lewis Jackson is about the only player that fits that description that actually did perform well offensively without being able to shoot from deep. Now that was more than a decade ago.

Could Morton become a high level offensive player for Purdue? Yes, he could. Do I think it’s likely? Maybe by his Junior or Senior year. Do I think he will have any offensive impact at all next year (this is where this whole debate started)? No I don’t.

 

[Level 42]

Morton, like Eastern, does not shoot it well from deep (at least based on the data readily available). Guards/Wings in Painter’s offense that don’t shoot well historically have not performed well in Painter’s offense. Lewis Jackson is about the only player that fits that description that actually did perform well offensively without being able to shoot from deep. Now that was more than a decade ago..

It stuns me that you say the data is readily available, yet you ignore actual facts and numbers in this thread. I mean you have been refuted, time after time after time in this thread alone yet you are either blind or just flat out ignoring it.

You have to be trolling. No one can be this obtuse. Either way, off to ignore you go

 

[TrojanFan004]

It stuns me that you say the data is readily available, yet you ignore actual facts and numbers in this thread. I mean you have been refuted, time after time after time in this thread alone yet you are either blind or just flat out ignoring it.

You have to be trolling. No one can be this obtuse. Either way, off to ignore you go

Where has anyone refuted my argument that Morton is not a good 3pt shooter? No one has done that with actual data. I’m the only one in this thread providing actual stats and posting the links to those stats.

Unless of course you choose to believe the guy who said he saw on a national forum that a poster said he shot greater than 35% on a high volume. In which case I have some Oceanfront properties in Indiana I’d like to sell to you...

 

[mathboy]

Okay, there are a lot of topics spinning around here. This is a good discussion and most of the responses are civil. The one topic I was attempting to address was the misconceptions that Trojan was throwing out here.

We all acknowledge that Nojel has had some unusual problems shooting the ball. That means he has trouble scoring even when there are opportunities to do so. Trojan’s perspective is that no PG will score very much in the motion offense, and he uses Nojel as his primary example. The crux of his argument is that Nojel’s shooting issues are caused by the motion offense. I say the motion offense has nothing to do with it.

Once the play goes into a half court game, the motion offense has players cutting and moving all over the court. Done well, the defense will eventually make a mistake, and one of the players will score. After the first pass is made, the offense becomes very democratic in that all the players moving have an equal chance to score. Painter’s offense, when executed well, is one of the most efficient and reliable in the college game. If you watch the Minnesota game where Robbie hurt his knee (stop the replay just before the injury), you can watch what I think was the best example of the motion offense in play. We were cutting up the Gophers and shredding their defense.

 

[TrojanFan004]

Okay, there are a lot of topics spinning around here. This is a good discussion and most of the responses are civil. The one topic I was attempting to address was the misconceptions that Trojan was throwing out here.

We all acknowledge that Nojel has had some unusual problems shooting the ball. That means he has trouble scoring even when there are opportunities to do so. Trojan’s perspective is that no PG will score very much in the motion offense, and he uses Nojel as his primary example. The crux of his argument is that Nojel’s shooting issues are caused by the motion offense. I say the motion offense has nothing to do with it.

Once the play goes into a half court game, the motion offense has players cutting and moving all over the court. Done well, the defense will eventually make a mistake, and one of the players will score. After the first pass is made, the offense becomes very democratic in that all the players moving have an equal chance to score. Painter’s offense, when executed well, is one of the most efficient and reliable in the college game. If you watch the Minnesota game where Robbie hurt his knee (stop the replay just before the injury), you can watch what I think was the best example of the motion offense in play. We were cutting up the Gophers and shredding their defense.

Okay, that’s not at all what I said. I did NOT say no PG will score very much in the motion offense. I DID say PGs who do not shoot from deep well will struggle to score in the motion offense. Carsen Edwards would still score a ton of points if he played PG at Purdue. A player like Eastern still wouldn’t score many points no matter if you put him at the 1,2,3, or 4, because those players need to be able to shoot in Painter’s offense.

Painter’s offense is designed to get a 3 or get the ball inside to a big man (great offense by the way as statistically those are the two best shots in college basketball). Painter’s offense works VERY well when there are 4 shooters surrounding a big that can dominate down low. It is my opinion that players like PJ Thompson, Isaiah Thompson, and Eric Hunter are better suited to play in Painter’s offense than players like Nojel, Johnny Hill, or Morton, because the former players can shoot at a high level from 3. Purdue struggled this year, because they seldom had 4 players on the court that could shoot the 3.

As you stated, pretty much anyone can being the ball up and get the offense started unless the opposing team is pressing.

 

[ThreeTwaunMoore]

Mathias is a wing/guard that can shoot very well from deep. The exact type of guard that thrives in Painter’s system.

Purdue fans naturally hope Morton has more Mathias in him than Eastern, however Morton’s 3pt shooting is far closer to Eastern than Mathias at this point. The numbers back that statement up. He shot around 7% from 3 during AAU last year, and around 20% the year before. All on low volume that is.

Morton shot 37% from 3 this season. Morton will be a very good player for Purdue. Not every player is going to be some offensive juggernaut. Nojel had a good sophomore season and struggled this past season. He will play better next year if he comes back. Purdue’s offense hasn’t been among the nation’s best the last 4-5 years. Would Nojel put up more numbers if he played at Iona or a more high tempo offense? Sure. He’d likely have a lot less team success because teams with no structure rarely do well and not sure how it’d help him that much as far as personal improvement.

 

[TrojanFan004]

Morton shot 37% from 3 this season. Morton will be a very good player for Purdue. Not every player is going to be some offensive juggernaut. Nojel had a good sophomore season and struggled this past season. He will play better next year if he comes back. Purdue’s offense hasn’t been among the nation’s best the last 4-5 years. Would Nojel put up more numbers if he played at Iona or a more high tempo offense? Sure. He’d likely have a lot less team success because teams with no structure rarely do well and not sure how it’d help him that much as far as personal improvement.

What was the volume of Morton’s 3pt attempts this season? You can shoot around 37% by going 4/11 on the season. That would not point to a good 3pt shooter. Again, Eastern shot 33% as a freshman, but on very limited attempts.

Teams have been very successful running uptempo offenses. Duke, UK, and UNC come to mind. I do think Morton would have been better off in an offense like Michigan’s where the PG has the ball in their hand almost all the time. That’s the type of offense Morton has in High School. In AAU he was forced to play more off the ball, because RJ Davis was the PG. Morton struggled in that role.