Our nation's COVID-19 response is a disaster !

[BuilderBob6]

Fine, if you really need me to answer you here it is.

I was asking why you were bringing up Obamacare because the indignation over it made no sense to me. So that's what I was referring to when I was saying why are you bringing it up.

Then I said, I don't see why the president shouldn't be bringing the issue up. It needs to be addressed. Our healthcare system is a mess. Actually, check that. Our health care insurance system is a mess. We actually have the best "care" in the world, but between government intervention, frivolous law suits and now the insurance issues that were made worse with Obamacare our health care is crazy expensive.

My son fell on some ice while skating this winter. We took him to an emergency room to get him stitched up (it was the closest thing and his cut on the chin was pretty big). We also have really good insurance through my wifes job. My son received 6 stitches in his chin. My insurance company paid about $2,500 of the bill. We had to pay the remaining $625!!! For 6 GD stitches. Going to single payer isn't the answer either because our "care" will go to shit and we'd be taxed out the ass to get that shit care.

We need a more free market solution just like lasik has been allowed to do. That is a shining example of what our healthcare system could be if we allowed the market to work.

As was said, if Trump's going to do this he should AT LEAST have a plan to replace it. He doesn't. He says he'll have one after THE ELECTION.

Where's your outrage at your president who PROMISED to replace Obamacare? He's had 4 years and still doesn't even have a freaking plan. How are you not pissed off about that?

 

[Boilermaker03]

As was said, if Trump's going to do this he should AT LEAST have a plan to replace it. He doesn't. He says he'll have one after THE ELECTION.

Where's your outrage at your president who PROMISED to replace Obamacare? He's had 4 years and still doesn't even have a freaking plan. How are you not pissed off about that?

I agree that I want to see a plan first. I don't agree that I should be outraged that he hasn't accomplished it yet. I don't even understand why you think I should be outraged. Disappointed, sure but outraged??? Hard to get rid of something in 4 years when 2 of those years you're opposition is the party that put the bill in in the first place. I don't think Trump could have seen the Dems taking over in that election so he didn't make it a priority the first 2 years.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Yes it was. It was here in December. People that I know in the area that work in hospitals say they had a spike in hospitalizations with flu like symptoms but were testing negative for flu. Nobody knew what it was at that time. In my neighborhood we were only 8 kids shy of kids home sick to where they would shut the school down in January. Some schools in the area did shut down during that time. We now know that the flu season was a very mild one. What do you think caused all that? Do you really think it was some other pandemic that we didn't even know about?

Ohio has confirmed cases of Covid in early January. How do you think it got there at that time?

Please provide some factual evidence of your claim thanks.

 

[PurdueFan1]

I agree that I want to see a plan first. I don't agree that I should be outraged that he hasn't accomplished it yet. I don't even understand why you think I should be outraged. Disappointed, sure but outraged??? Hard to get rid of something in 4 years when 2 of those years you're opposition is the party that put the bill in in the first place. I don't think Trump could have seen the Dems taking over in that election so he didn't make it a priority the first 2 years.

This makes zero sense. Trump has, in the last few weeks, been bashing Obamacare. He has promised a replacement plan. It was one of the first things he said when he became president. He said it would be big and beautiful. Four years later you’re complaining about the cost of stitches. Yeah , we all think that sucks and the issues are systemic.

But you were promised something better and haven’t gotten it. And you’re just “meh, it’s complicated” about it.

My point is that the jackass in charge should stfu about it unless he has something to roll out. Instead, what he wants is to kill Obamacare completely, in the middle of a freaking pandemic, with zero alternatives. How is that NOT outrageous to you?

 

[SqueakyClean]

That data is deceiving. The number of cases are going to change country by country based on their ability to test. The US has by far the greatest ability to test than any other country.

We tend to forget about Sweden. Again, a country that didn't lock down, and their total death numbers are quite low if this virus is as bad as it's being made out to be.

I mentioned before that I thought our total death numbers are inflated. I pointed out the instance with Colorado and how they changed their methodology and now their death numbers dropped by 25%. I'm willing to bet most states could do something similar. Then there's the thousands of people that died unnecessarily because governors were putting Covid positive people in nursing homes. Now I'm finding this article that talks about nurses saying people are dying in hospitals by clear negligence.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/05/coronavirus-nurse-says-negligence-has-patients-dying-at-nyc-hospitals/

In reference to the section in bold above. There is no way in hell you can know this. You're just making gross speculation based on what you feel.

Couple of issues here:
1) "The US has by far the greatest ability to test than any other country". That is true from a quantity (and perhaps even quality) perspective, but not on a per-capita basis. The US is 26th in tests per million population. For example, the UK has a higher test rate (15th) than the US, and they have followed similar shutdown procedures as we have, and yet they have not had the secondary spike that we have.

2) "Sweden: Their death count has been quite low." Huh? Population of Sweden: 10 million Population of Ohio: 11.6 million. Death count in Sweden: 5,280. Death count in Ohio: 2,836. In fact, looking at the deaths per million population, SWEDEN IS CURRENTLY 7TH IN THE WORLD. The USA is 9th.

I can provide links proving this if you do not believe me.

I was going to respond to the other "question for democrats" thread, but that one has devolved quickly, so it might get better traction here.

I will say it again because I believe it even more strongly now than before: You and 90% of the people you know will get Covid-19 sometime in the next three to four years. Maybe if we had shut down for about 4 months and everybody was wearing masks all the time when we came back, it might have been avoided, but that time is gone (and yes, I am well aware that was not a feasible answer either because it would have caused irreparable damage to the economy and mental health of this country).

The purpose of shutting down was to accomplish four things:
1) Slow down the curve. We were on track to get to a level of 100,000 new cases a day by the middle of April. That would have overwhelmed the hospitals and things would have gone badly. We were not prepared at that time for a national emergency like that. So we essentially got a 6 week buffer.

2) By slowing down the hospitalization, we got those 6 weeks to develop treatments and increase testing. Those six weeks have been invaluable. That is the reason why the death rate has plummeted. We now know how better to treat patients with various steroids and medications and we also are identifying cases much earlier so those treatments can be applied earlier, thus avoiding many of the cases that accelerated to the point where you needed ventilators. Cases that progressed to the point of needing ventilators had the highest mortality rates (about 1 in 5).

3) Gives times for hospitals to stock up on necessary PPE and create logistics for allocation for when things get bad.

4) Give adequate time to educate people on what safety measures can be taken to limit the spread. As I said above, the genie is out of the bottle, it will hit everyone eventually, but there are things that can be done to slow it down.

I believe that we did well with items 1 and 2. I think item 3 is better, but still not great. I think we have failed miserably at #4.

At this point, the best thing we could do is 1) Work on #4 (getting people to wear masks and avoid large group gatherings, whether that involves rallies or protests, they are both not helping) and 2) Lock down states that are experiencing massive spikes (ie. Florida and Texas). We can't kill the entire economy again, but we could survive a few states getting smashed and maybe the others would get the idea that proper mask-wearing can maybe help avoid the same fate happening to them.

Because if we keep the current path, we will hit the 100,00 new cases per day by August or earlier. Even with the advances we have made in treatment that will bring the death rate down to ~1% (of which we are still at ~5%), that's still 1000 people a day.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Please provide some factual evidence of your claim thanks.

Hard to provide facts when the media won't cover it. There are plenty of health professionals that will talk about it though if you know of any in the area.

As far as the cases in Ohio in early January:

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20200...rliest-ohio-coronavirus-case-in-early-january

 

[Boilermaker03]

This makes zero sense. Trump has, in the last few weeks, been bashing Obamacare. He has promised a replacement plan. It was one of the first things he said when he became president. He said it would be big and beautiful. Four years later you’re complaining about the cost of stitches. Yeah , we all think that sucks and the issues are systemic.

But you were promised something better and haven’t gotten it. And you’re just “meh, it’s complicated” about it.

My point is that the jackass in charge should stfu about it unless he has something to roll out. Instead, what he wants is to kill Obamacare completely, in the middle of a freaking pandemic, with zero alternatives. How is that NOT outrageous to you?

First of all I understand that this pandemic isn't as bad as the media and the left want you to believe it is. It is highly infectious, but that's about the worst of it. The death rate isn't that much worse than the flu, yet we are killing our economy over it. You can take offense to that all you want, but the numbers back me up. The flu is about a 0.1% death rate. Covid as it sits right now is around 0.5% and as we test more positive, that rate keeps going down.

I'm more pissed that when we do do something about healthcare we move in the wrong direction. THAT I am pissed about. So not seeing him do more about it right now I'm not worried about it because typically when we try to "fix" our system we only make it worse. It's ****ed up enough already. Until someone comes along and does the things I mentioned, I'd rather people in charge do nothing.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Hard to provide facts when the media won't cover it. There are plenty of health professionals that will talk about it though if you know of any in the area.

As far as the cases in Ohio in early January:

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20200...rliest-ohio-coronavirus-case-in-early-january

So you have no proof that the epicenter was Chicago. Got it. And just as I figured

 

[PurdueFan1]

First of all I understand that this pandemic isn't as bad as the media and the left want you to believe it is. It is highly infectious, but that's about the worst of it. The death rate isn't that much worse than the flu, yet we are killing our economy over it. You can take offense to that all you want, but the numbers back me up. The flu is about a 0.01% death rate. Covid as it sits right now is around 0.05% and as we test more positive, that rate keeps going down.

I'm more pissed that when we do do something about healthcare we move in the wrong direction. THAT I am pissed about. So not seeing him do more about it right now I'm not worried about it because typically when we try to "fix" our system we only make it worse. It's ****ed up enough already. Until someone comes along and does the things I mentioned, I'd rather people in charge do nothing.

And once again, other countries successfully navigated this without ruining their economies. Managing a pandemic and running an economy effectively aren’t mutually exclusive. Or they shouldn’t be, although this current administration has proven otherwise.

Re: healthcare. Then wouldn’t you agree that trump needs to stfu about it?

 

[Boilermaker03]

Couple of issues here:
1) "The US has by far the greatest ability to test than any other country". That is true from a quantity (and perhaps even quality) perspective, but not on a per-capita basis. The US is 26th in tests per million population. For example, the UK has a higher test rate (15th) than the US, and they have followed similar shutdown procedures as we have, and yet they have not had the secondary spike that we have.

2) "Sweden: Their death count has been quite low." Huh? Population of Sweden: 10 million Population of Ohio: 11.6 million. Death count in Sweden: 5,280. Death count in Ohio: 2,836. In fact, looking at the deaths per million population, SWEDEN IS CURRENTLY 7TH IN THE WORLD. The USA is 9th.

I can provide links proving this if you do not believe me.

I was going to respond to the other "question for democrats" thread, but that one has devolved quickly, so it might get better traction here.

I will say it again because I believe it even more strongly now than before: You and 90% of the people you know will get Covid-19 sometime in the next three to four years. Maybe if we had shut down for about 4 months and everybody was wearing masks all the time when we came back, it might have been avoided, but that time is gone (and yes, I am well aware that was not a feasible answer either because it would have caused irreparable damage to the economy and mental health of this country).

The purpose of shutting down was to accomplish four things:
1) Slow down the curve. We were on track to get to a level of 100,000 new cases a day by the middle of April. That would have overwhelmed the hospitals and things would have gone badly. We were not prepared at that time for a national emergency like that. So we essentially got a 6 week buffer.

2) By slowing down the hospitalization, we got those 6 weeks to develop treatments and increase testing. Those six weeks have been invaluable. That is the reason why the death rate has plummeted. We now know how better to treat patients with various steroids and medications and we also are identifying cases much earlier so those treatments can be applied earlier, thus avoiding many of the cases that accelerated to the point where you needed ventilators. Cases that progressed to the point of needing ventilators had the highest mortality rates (about 1 in 5).

3) Gives times for hospitals to stock up on necessary PPE and create logistics for allocation for when things get bad.

4) Give adequate time to educate people on what safety measures can be taken to limit the spread. As I said above, the genie is out of the bottle, it will hit everyone eventually, but there are things that can be done to slow it down.

I believe that we did well with items 1 and 2. I think item 3 is better, but still not great. I think we have failed miserably at #4.

At this point, the best thing we could do is 1) Work on #4 (getting people to wear masks and avoid large group gatherings, whether that involves rallies or protests, they are both not helping) and 2) Lock down states that are experiencing massive spikes (ie. Florida and Texas). We can't kill the entire economy again, but we could survive a few states getting smashed and maybe the others would get the idea that proper mask-wearing can maybe help avoid the same fate happening to them.

Because if we keep the current path, we will hit the 100,00 new cases per day by August or earlier. Even with the advances we have made in treatment that will bring the death rate down to ~1% (of which we are still at ~5%), that's still 1000 people a day.

1. You can't use test rates in this instance. It doesn't tell the real story. Sheer numbers matter. You can have a country with 4 million people and have the highest testing "rate" but sill have a very low number of total infections because you don't have that many people. The seer amount of tests are what matter, especially in large populations like ours.

2. You compare Sweden to Ohio. How about compare them to New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, San Marino, Belgium, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, District of Columbia, Louisiana, the UK, Michigan, Spain, Italy, Andorra, Illinois, and Maryland. All those areas have a higher death count per million than Sweden.

Sweden's biggest failure was that they ended up getting some infection in their nursing homes. That is the largest area of death for them. Otherwise they did just fine.

As for the rest of the post, I don't know what you're referencing because I don't disagree with most of it.

 

[Boilermaker03]

So you have no proof that the epicenter was Chicago. Got it. And just as I figured

LOL, the earliest CONFIRMED cases are much closer to Chicago than NY. Plus all the real world things that happened in this area (which the schools closing was in the first or second week of January) and you still think NY was the epicenter. Got it.

 

[SqueakyClean]

First of all I understand that this pandemic isn't as bad as the media and the left want you to believe it is. It is highly infectious, but that's about the worst of it. The death rate isn't that much worse than the flu, yet we are killing our economy over it. You can take offense to that all you want, but the numbers back me up. The flu is about a 0.01% death rate. Covid as it sits right now is around 0.05% and as we test more positive, that rate keeps going down.

Please provide ANY data that backs up this claim.
1) Even if you use the "CDC thinks the infection rate COULD be 10x higher" line, That still only drops it down from 5% to 0.5%. Not 0.05%. Still 50X worse.
2) As noted in my previous post, the death rate is falling for reasons other than just the increased testing. Treatments have progressed. Cases are being found earlier and thus treatment is starting earlier. Thus improving the chances of recovery.

 

[PurdueFan1]

LOL, the earliest CONFIRMED cases are much closer to Chicago than NY. Plus all the real world things that happened in this area (which the schools closing was in the first or second week of January) and you still think NY was the epicenter. Got it.

Where’s the proof dude? I mean believe what you want I suppose but Chicago wasn’t the issue early on.

 

[Boilermaker03]

And once again, other countries successfully navigated this without ruining their economies. Managing a pandemic and running an economy effectively aren’t mutually exclusive. Or they shouldn’t be, although this current administration has proven otherwise.

Re: healthcare. Then wouldn’t you agree that trump needs to stfu about it?

Wrong, all the countries are effected economically. Don't be fooled by unemployment numbers and economic hardship. They are linked but not a direct linear cause effect.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Wrong, all the countries are effected economically. Don't be fooled by unemployment numbers and economic hardship. They are linked but not a direct linear cause effect.

I didn’t say they weren’t affected. I said ruined. Please read.

 

[Boilermaker03]

And once again, other countries successfully navigated this without ruining their economies. Managing a pandemic and running an economy effectively aren’t mutually exclusive. Or they shouldn’t be, although this current administration has proven otherwise.

Re: healthcare. Then wouldn’t you agree that trump needs to stfu about it?

I miss typed. I didn't mean to put 0.05% and 0.01%. I meant to put 0.5% and 0.1%. My mistake.

You getting irate about Trump and talking about ACA is you just being upset because he's Trump, aka TDS. That's a you issue.

 

[Boilermaker03]

I didn’t say they weren’t affected. I said ruined. Please read.

LOL, what's the difference? Their economies are just as "ruined" as ours. Read something other than unemployment numbers and you can see it's happening to them too.

 

[SqueakyClean]

1. You can't use test rates in this instance. It doesn't tell the real story. Sheer numbers matter. You can have a country with 4 million people and have the highest testing "rate" but sill have a very low number of total infections because you don't have that many people. The seer amount of tests are what matter, especially in large populations like ours.

2. You compare Sweden to Ohio. How about compare them to New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, District of Columbia, Louisiana, the UK, Michigan, Spain, Italy, Illinois, and Maryland. All those areas have a higher death count per million than Sweden.

As for the rest of the post, I don't know what you're referencing because I don't disagree with most of it.

1) Umm, that's kinda the point. The population of Sweden is 1/30th of what the USA is. So number of tests is not relevant. The only way you can compare the two results is tests per capita.
2) I used Ohio because the populations of the two locations were comparable. Yes, you can point to New York and New Jersey as examples where the deaths per population are worse, but the caveat here is population density.

New York: 413 ppl / square mi. (with the city of New York being 27,000 ppl / sq. mile)
New Jersey: 1,215 ppl / mi2
District of Columbia: 11,815 ppl / mi2

Ohio: 288 ppl / mi2
Sweden: 64 ppl mi2

So to summarize: Sweden: Similar population to Ohio. Similar or even better population dispersion. Nearly double the death rate.

So yeah, I wouldn't be touting Sweden for their Covid response.

As for the second half, as I said, I was going to post that response in the other thread but it devolved before I got there. That part wasn't necessarily directed at you.

 

[PA Boilermakers]

Well, I guess your going to be disappointed aren't you - deal with it !

Are you implying that we'll all be on Medicare for All soon?

 

[PurdueFan1]

I miss typed. I didn't mean to put 0.05% and 0.01%. I meant to put 0.5% and 0.1%. My mistake.

You getting irate about Trump and talking about ACA is you just being upset because he's Trump, aka TDS. That's a you issue.

Oh knock it off with the tds shit dude. As soon as you bring up that stupid ass retort it ends any type of legit talking points you’re trying to make. Also it’s just such a tired and stupid attempt at an insult.

And if you’re not irate that he’s trying to kill Obamacare during a pandemic with nothing to show for it then all that does is tell me you’re a heartless jackass.

 

[Boilermaker03]

1) Umm, that's kinda the point. The population of Sweden is 1/30th of what the USA is. So number of tests is not relevant. The only way you can compare the two results is tests per capita.
2) I used Ohio because the populations of the two locations were comparable. Yes, you can point to New York and New Jersey as examples where the deaths per population are worse, but the caveat here is population density.

New York: 413 ppl / square mi. (with the city of New York being 27,000 ppl / sq. mile)
New Jersey: 1,215 ppl / mi2
District of Columbia: 11,815 ppl / mi2

Ohio: 288 ppl / mi2
Sweden: 64 ppl mi2

So to summarize: Sweden: Similar population to Ohio. Similar or even better population dispersion. Nearly double the death rate.

So yeah, I wouldn't be touting Sweden for their Covid response.

As for the second half, as I said, I was going to post that response in the other thread but it devolved before I got there. That part wasn't necessarily directed at you.

I see you only used New York and New Jersey. What about all of those other places I listed? Pretty sure I listed 16 in total. Population density isn't the end all when the places with the high population density are supposed to be staying home and Sweden isn't.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Oh knock it off with the tds shit dude. As soon as you bring up that stupid ass retort it ends any type of legit talking points you’re trying to make. Also it’s just such a tired and stupid attempt at an insult.

And if you’re not irate that he’s trying to kill Obamacare during a pandemic with nothing to show for it then all that does is tell me you’re a heartless jackass.

I'm not trying to insult you with it. It's a real thing.

I'm a heartless jackass because I'm not irate? Please tell me how I'm a heartless jackass because it doesn't just make be go bat shit crazy.

 

[PurdueFan1]

I'm not trying to insult you with it. It's a real thing.

I'm a heartless jackass because I'm not irate? Please tell me how I'm a heartless jackass because it doesn't just make be go bat shit crazy.

Oh there’s an official medical diagnosis for it? Cool, cool.

I think you’re a heartless jackass because you just shrug your shoulders at it.

 

[SqueakyClean]

I see you only used New York and New Jersey. What about all of those other places I listed? Pretty sure I listed 16 in total. Population density isn't the end all when the places with the high population density are supposed to be staying home and Sweden isn't.

OK, Ask and ye shall receive:


New York: 413 ppl / square mi. (with the city of New York being 27,000 ppl / sq. mile), 1618 deaths per mil pop,
New Jersey: 1,215 ppl / mi2, 1702 deaths per mil
District of Columbia: 11,815 ppl / mi2, 781 deaths per mil
Connecticut: 736 ppl / mi2, 1,211 deaths per mil
Massachusetts, 894 ppl / mi2, 1,169 deaths per mil
Rhode Island, 1021 ppl / mi2, 875 deaths per mil
Louisiana, 108 ppl / mi2, 690 deaths per mil
UK, 1349 ppl / mi2, 642 deaths per mil
Michigan: 178 ppl / mi2, 617 deaths per mil
Spain: 210 ppl / mi2, 606 deaths per mil
Italy: 197 ppl / mi2, 575 deaths per mil
Illinois: 228 ppl / mi2, 559 deaths per mil
Maryland 627 ppl / mi2, 525 deaths per mil
Ohio: 288 ppl / mi2, 243 deaths per mil
Sweden: 64 ppl / mi2, 523 deaths per mil

So looking at that, while there are a couple of outliers (looking at you Lousiana…), there is a pretty consistent relationship between population density and deaths per mil. Sweden is an outlier too, but not in a good way.

We could also take Arizona: What many consider to be a current hot spot. Population density: 65 ppl / mi2 (as in, nearly identical to Sweden). Population of Arizona ~7.5 million (a little lower to Sweden's 10 mil), but only sits at 218 deaths per mil pop. Now that number may rise (considering they are now posting ~3000 cases a day compared to ~1500 to Sweden), but for the moment, Arizona appears to have done a better job of keeping people alive.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Oh there’s an official medical diagnosis for it? Cool, cool.

I think you’re a heartless jackass because you just shrug your shoulders at it.

That's not very specific. Its not like our health care system would cease to exist. So again, why am I a heartless jackass because I'm not irate. IMO my healthcare is worse since ACA took place so please tell me what I'm heartless about.

 

[Boilermaker03]

OK, Ask and ye shall receive:


New York: 413 ppl / square mi. (with the city of New York being 27,000 ppl / sq. mile), 1618 deaths per mil pop,
New Jersey: 1,215 ppl / mi2, 1702 deaths per mil
District of Columbia: 11,815 ppl / mi2, 781 deaths per mil
Connecticut: 736 ppl / mi2, 1,211 deaths per mil
Massachusetts, 894 ppl / mi2, 1,169 deaths per mil
Rhode Island, 1021 ppl / mi2, 875 deaths per mil
Louisiana, 108 ppl / mi2, 690 deaths per mil
UK, 1349 ppl / mi2, 642 deaths per mil
Michigan: 178 ppl / mi2, 617 deaths per mil
Spain: 210 ppl / mi2, 606 deaths per mil
Italy: 197 ppl / mi2, 575 deaths per mil
Illinois: 228 ppl / mi2, 559 deaths per mil
Maryland 627 ppl / mi2, 525 deaths per mil
Ohio: 288 ppl / mi2, 243 deaths per mil
Sweden: 64 ppl / mi2, 523 deaths per mil

So looking at that, while there are a couple of outliers (looking at you Lousiana…), there is a pretty consistent relationship between population density and deaths per mil. Sweden is an outlier too, but not in a good way.

We could also take Arizona: What many consider to be a current hot spot. Population density: 65 ppl / mi2 (as in, nearly identical to Sweden). Population of Arizona ~7.5 million (a little lower to Sweden's 10 mil), but only sits at 218 deaths per mil pop. Now that number may rise (considering they are now posting ~3000 cases a day compared to ~1500 to Sweden), but for the moment, Arizona appears to have done a better job of keeping people alive.

You also have to consider population demographics. What's the elderly population of these places?

 

[PA Boilermakers]

That's not very specific. Its not like our health care system would cease to exist. So again, why am I a heartless jackass because I'm not irate. IMO my healthcare is worse since ACA took place so please tell me what I'm heartless about.

My doctor and along with everyone in his office would agree

 

[SqueakyClean]

You also have to consider population demographics. What's the elderly population of these places?

Hey, I only have so much time to prove somebody is wrong on the internet!!!

While that is a true statement that population demographics matter, Sweden is only a hair older than the US (41.2 yrs. compared to 38.1 yrs.), I don't think that would be enough of a statistical variance to have created such a disparity in the death count.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_median_age

 

[PA Boilermakers]

Hey, I only have so much time to prove somebody is wrong on the internet!!!

While that is a true statement that population demographics matter, Sweden is only a hair older than the US (41.2 yrs. compared to 38.1 yrs.), I don't think that would be enough of a statistical variance to have created such a disparity in the death count.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_median_age

Something that might be skewing your figures is that nearly half of Sweden's population live in and around the capital of Stockholm.

 

[SqueakyClean]

Something that might be skewing your figures is that nearly half of Sweden's population live in and around the capital of Stockholm.

Population of Arizona: 7.5 Million.
Population of the greater Phoenix metropolitan area: 4.8 million

Somebody needs to get that Captain America Gif of "I can do this all day" and post it here.

 

[PA Boilermakers]

Population of Arizona: 7.5 Million.
Population of the greater Phoenix metropolitan area: 4.8 million

Somebody needs to get that Captain America Gif of "I can do this all day" and post it here.

Good job! That's closer to comparing apples to apples. Now think about the percent of Swedes that have immunity to the virus compared to those in Arizona.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Hey, I only have so much time to prove somebody is wrong on the internet!!!

While that is a true statement that population demographics matter, Sweden is only a hair older than the US (41.2 yrs. compared to 38.1 yrs.), I don't think that would be enough of a statistical variance to have created such a disparity in the death count.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_median_age

I hear ya. Averages are decent, but don't tell the whole story. A percentage breakdown would be better for each place. 65+ one category, 55-64, and so on.

 

[PurdueFan1]

That's not very specific. Its not like our health care system would cease to exist. So again, why am I a heartless jackass because I'm not irate. IMO my healthcare is worse since ACA took place so please tell me what I'm heartless about.

I don’t care about you. I care about the millions who wouldn’t have any insurance during a pandemic.

 

[Tony79]

Again if Leronmilab gets approved, things will change pretty rapidly.

 

[BSIT]

Again if Leronmilab gets approved, things will change pretty rapidly.

Also what is being ignored is what has been ocurring during the last month?

 

[SqueakyClean]

Good job! That's closer to comparing apples to apples. Now think about the percent of Swedes that have immunity to the virus compared to those in Arizona.

Not sure I get the point. Sweden has a 10 mil population and about 65,000 cases. Arizona has 7.5 million people with about 74,000 cases. Now, in fairness, Arizona has done about twice the amount of testing that Sweden has (so Sweden might have more cases that have not been reported), but if you assume that you have built up some immunity by having it (which is not completely true as there are already several cases of people contracting it twice already in 5 months), the percentage of "immunity" is a bit better in Arizona than it is in Sweden.

But that's not what I am driving at though. Number of deaths: Arizona - 1588. Sweden - 5280.

I don't think there is any kind of comparable data that could conclude that Sweden is doing a "better job" by doing nothing. Even if I go looking through the specific data for age breakdown, I'm relatively certain that I am not going to find that Sweden has a 3x population density of people ages 55+ compared to Arizona.

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

That data is deceiving. . . .

1.) The US has by far the greatest ability to test than any other country.

- Answer: Why, yes we do and do you know why all of those tests aren't working well, compared to South Koreas? They AREN'T accurate ! ! (And someone isn't worried about THAT !)

2.) We tend to forget about Sweden. Again, a country that didn't lock down, and their total death numbers are quite low if this virus is as bad as it's being made out to be.

- Answer: You are obviously DESPERATE to try and make ANY kind of case, huh? You do realize that Sweden gets 10% of the tourists we get, right and the impact that has on a country. Try comparing them to the Dominican Republic

3.) I mentioned before that I thought our total death numbers are inflated.

- Answer: You are WRONG ! I have also been reporting of the death totals just in my home town and how they are HIGHER than the state totals. In addition, even Fauci has stated the numbers are LOW, because they are not capturing the deaths occurring in the home. Then, if you really want to compare conspiracy theories . . . why is Florida trying to alter their numbers?

Yes, some Governors make absolutely STUPID decisions with respect to nursing homes. I live in a Republican state (Indiana) and they were terrible at it ! (Actually filed lawsuits against nursing homes to FORCE them to allow COVID patients to go move to other facilities. NUTS ! I have also clearly highlighted repeatedly that Cuomo in New York did the same thing and deserves the criticism he gets for it. HOWEVER, he has since changed his states policy - Indiana has NOT ! ! (Some states just can't do anything unless Trump blesses it I guess) It would look bad for Pence to backtrack, right? I personally do NOT think a lot of negligence is going on. My guess is that people are getting exhausted and are NOT getting any relief. (maybe the people who aren't worried about the virus could go volunteer to cover their jobs for a week or two)

4.) In reference to the section in bold above. There is no way in hell you can know this. You're just making gross speculation based on what you feel.

IF . . you are referencing the mask comment, you are AGAIN wrong ! Look at the data, research the comments from the experts, look at the data by country which are religiously usng them, etc.. They agree with my comment. I realize you are DESPERATE to change the narrative, but a ClusterFk like this can't be covered up !

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

Are you implying that we'll all be on Medicare for All soon?

No I am not - maybe you should read a little more carefully. I was in reference to your hate speech and thinking someone like me is going to wither based on a comment or two. I am not going anywhere and will definitely not stop voicing my opinion because of someone like you. As I stated before, you don't know me very well.

However, IF . . you were wanting to know if I think Trump will be gone soon, then my answer is easy - HELL yeah !

 

[Boilermaker03]

1.) The US has by far the greatest ability to test than any other country.

- Answer: Why, yes we do and do you know why all of those tests aren't working well, compared to South Koreas? They AREN'T accurate ! ! (And someone isn't worried about THAT !)

2.) We tend to forget about Sweden. Again, a country that didn't lock down, and their total death numbers are quite low if this virus is as bad as it's being made out to be.

- Answer: You are obviously DESPERATE to try and make ANY kind of case, huh? You do realize that Sweden gets 10% of the tourists we get, right and the impact that has on a country. Try comparing them to the Dominican Republic

3.) I mentioned before that I thought our total death numbers are inflated.

- Answer: You are WRONG ! I have also been reporting of the death totals just in my home town and how they are HIGHER than the state totals. In addition, even Fauci has stated the numbers are LOW, because they are not capturing the deaths occurring in the home. Then, if you really want to compare conspiracy theories . . . why is Florida trying to alter their numbers?

Yes, some Governors make absolutely STUPID decisions with respect to nursing homes. I live in a Republican state (Indiana) and they were terrible at it ! (Actually filed lawsuits against nursing homes to FORCE them to allow COVID patients to go move to other facilities. NUTS ! I have also clearly highlighted repeatedly that Cuomo in New York did the same thing and deserves the criticism he gets for it. HOWEVER, he has since changed his states policy - Indiana has NOT ! ! (Some states just can't do anything unless Trump blesses it I guess) It would look bad for Pence to backtrack, right? I personally do NOT think a lot of negligence is going on. My guess is that people are getting exhausted and are NOT getting any relief. (maybe the people who aren't worried about the virus could go volunteer to cover their jobs for a week or two)

4.) In reference to the section in bold above. There is no way in hell you can know this. You're just making gross speculation based on what you feel.

IF . . you are referencing the mask comment, you are AGAIN wrong ! Look at the data, research the comments from the experts, look at the data by country which are religiously usng them, etc.. They agree with my comment. I realize you are DESPERATE to change the narrative, but a ClusterFk like this can't be covered up !

For your #4 you obviously didn't look at what I had in bold.

Yes there is a lot of ways you could bring our death rates down. There are a lot of solid arguments to be made. Fauci doesn't know everything. The "experts" have gotten a lot wrong in this whole thing so far.

In regards to the negligence that is happening in hospitals here is the referrence. The video is disturbing.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/05/coronavirus-nurse-says-negligence-has-patients-dying-at-nyc-hospitals/

 

[MJ-79Boiler]

For your #4 you obviously didn't look at what I had in bold.

Yes there is a lot of ways you could bring our death rates down. There are a lot of solid arguments to be made. Fauci doesn't know everything. The "experts" have gotten a lot wrong in this whole thing so far.

In regards to the negligence that is happening in hospitals here is the referrence. The video is disturbing.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/05/coronavirus-nurse-says-negligence-has-patients-dying-at-nyc-hospitals/

There are always exceptions - not saying it didn't happen - just saying it's not widespread. I hear far more stories of people dying because people are overloaded and exhausted. When that happens, we all make mistakes.