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Didn't seem to help Aaron Wheeler much.
My guess is he’s trying to make the point that painter actually runs a fairly tight ship with his players and runs an organized motion offense to get open shots and typically doesn’t give the guards the option of freelancing to create shots for themselves or others outside of offensive sets.
Perhaps that is why Purdue is usually a top 10 offensive team in the NCAA? The old "Juke & Shoot" stuff doesn't win games. It's strictly rec-league junk, but some folks just don't get it. Clever plays with all 5 guys working a scheme is how to win in the big leagues.
Yeah, his best guards definitely were only allowed to "MOVE"
Just think how many points Carsen scores in the 2019 tourney if he could freelance?
I’d say Carsen avgs 34.8 ppg in the tourney…since all he did was free lance that tourney run haha
In a way, Motion is a freelance in that it is all read the D. Sets start with some basic movement and then some reads of the options. However, you are correct that Matt wants some control of the game...and to make sure Zach touches the ball in the half court...
Motion is based on sets and movement in a system and yes reads within the structure/system. Some freedom built in due to reading the openings it causes in the defense. That being said it is not based on truly opening things up for individualized guard play based on their skill set’s like you often see more of in AAU with some top talent. That being said Painter tells his recruits that if they are in the 2 (maybe 3) best players on the team they’ll have plays set to let them be more of the focus because it benefits the player and the TEAM! If you’re a top 30 guard but don’t appear to buy into team first you’re less likely to fit what painters recruiting profile IMO.
used to be 75% of the offenses started with a pass (usually) to get the ball to the right side wing.
I think this is a depth pickup with possibly good upside.
My issue is that he isn't able to finish at the rim.
There's only one Michael Jordan, we don't want someone that's based on midrange scoring because it's not efficient. Getting him to shoot more 3s still leaves Purdue with it's long-standing issue.
Painter should look at Bartovik at the guards that have many dunks and finishes at the rim. That's the kind of guard recruit Purdue needs.
That being said it's a good pickup considering it's an under recruited guy.
My issue is that he isn't able to finish at the rim.
There's only one Michael Jordan, we don't want someone that's based on midrange scoring because it's not efficient. Getting him to shoot more 3s still leaves Purdue with it's long-standing issue.
Painter should look at Bartovik at the guards that have many dunks and finishes at the rim. That's the kind of guard recruit Purdue needs.
That being said it's a good pickup considering it's an under recruited guy.
I want us to throwaway our offensive approach of completely centering everything around the 5 position. It’s the least important position on the floor. It handcuffs us in the tournament and the last 3 years have yielded some very embarrassing losses. We need athletic centers that can move better. They just need to be able to move their feet good on defense, rebound, and protect the rim and that’s about all I really care about out of that position.
Well I hate to tell you, but it won’t change this year. Next year though, I am guessing we will see more of what you’re talking about with the (assumed) departure of the big maple.
Agree. Zach is very dominant at what he does and is absolutely an all time great here. He has won a lot of games in the regular for us. But unfortunately his style of play doesn’t work well in the tournament. I’m definitely anticipating a different offense next year but who knows at this point.
I think we have a chance to win, but guys other than Zach need to be able to hit open shots. If we hit just 2 threes or 3 mid ranges in the first round, we don’t lose. Unfortunately, it’s part of the game...sometimes you just don’t hit shots and you gotta figure out how to win. If we are able to shoot 35%+ from 3 this year as a team, which is another 1-2 made 3s, we will be verrry tough to beat. 18-0 last year when shooting that from 3. Easier said than done of course!
I think the problem is we didn’t really have any guys that could step up(aside from Zach)and win a game with any consistency if their outside shot isn’t falling. Wayyy too many one-dimensional players. Ball handling and general lack of team athleticism(especially last year) has been a pretty big issue for us most of painters time here. Adding Colvin and Heide should help out with some added athleticism but I still think ball handling is going to be somewhat of an issue.
You're going to really miss Zach when he's gone...that ideal 5 that you're wishing for is very tough to find....they're either going straight to the NBA or a blueblood gets them...Painter is trying to win in a less conventional way since we can't recruit like other schools do....that 2019 team was such an anomaly, Carsen and Cline went crazy in the tourney...we tried to play the next year the same way but we didn't make the tourney, ie playing with a mobile center....last year we were a good team with Zach but we were either too young in certain positions or didn't have enough talent at others....this year we have a much more complete team....and you'll find that we won't be hampered by Zach coming back but he'll be the main reason we achieve so much....
Understand your concerns. But 5 being least important position on the floor? Depends on personell.
Anyway, we have a generational center in ZE. Use what you have. Enjoy the games won in 23-24. Enjoy going into the tournament with a chance at going far ... does not happen that often.
Next year we perhaps will have a team where can win with a different approach?
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I am hopeful that smith, who was very good with the ball last year, but was gassed at the end of games in the middle of Feb due to (like you said) not having other ball handlers and having to always handle the ball himself. From what we’ve seen so far from jones (very brief I know), he seems to be very capable of handling it and taking that pressure off smith.
Agree on the athleticism, which Colvin and Heide should help immensely there. Got to believe that Loyer and smith will also make that sophomore jump. And also, if Zach stays on the course of how he has improved every year, he is going to be even better this year. Only his 7th year in organized ball…most people playing at this level had their 7th year of ball when they were in 6th or 7th grade.
I agree that not everything needs to be centered around the center position, but Zach was not the problem against FDU. His presence created wide open shot after wide open shot.
The million dollar question is "if" Zach's style of play does not work well in the tournament, why does it work well before the tournament? If it is the "style" of play that is the problem, what happens in the tourney that wasn't tried before? If his style of play is the Achilles Heel for Purdue, then we can expect this year to see exactly what defense against his style of play the whole year since the other teams know the Purdue weakness. I just cannot understand the flip of the switch being due to "style" unless the reffing is totally different and you would think that those reffing styles have already been encountered. Anyway, I hear you and have my own version of "style typically desired", but cannot reconcile season and tourney being inversely related due to style...that is where I struggle.
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It just has a smaller std dev. than guard based basketball. When matched up against a guard style team it will perform well, but is prone to upsets where an opposing team is "on" and can't catch up as easily if it gets behind. In March this can cause problems because of the one and done aspect. Over 100 games center driven will likely win more games, in 1 game another team can out shoot/out athlete you easily.
Also the reason Guard play is dominant in the NBA is because everyone is elite, so it then defaults to statistics. Shooting 3's with elite guards at 40% gets more points than shooting 2's with elite centers at 55%.
The problem in the tournament was not an ineffectiveness of Edey or the 5! We shot and played abysmally as a team besides Edey. We played without confidence and missed plenty of uncontested wide open shots. FDU gambled on collapsing on the post and taking chances on officials calling fouls, leaving the perimeter players open. Daring them to beat them instead of Edey scoring 40+. Obviously we had a few games prior to that at the end of the season that had similar results.
Purdue has had one of those dominant outside shooting teams in 2018, when they surrounded Haas with great shooters. Unfortunately, we’ll never know how far the model would have taken Purdue if Haas hadn’t gone down on that hook and hold play. Still, the model creates great outside shots if you have the players who can make them.
Like he did in 2018 with Haas, Painter has tried to surround Edey with capable shooters. I really believe that the talent is there with the current group as well, but last year they seemed to be affected by the pressure. If they can turn it around this year, Purdue has a chance to have the best offense in the country. Of course, for that to happen, they’ll also need to reduce turnovers, but the potential is there.
This year going to prove what utter bs the "centers can't dominate" argument is.
From a strategic recruiting perspective, you get commitments from under recruited players after your main targets turn you down, not before . It would Appear this player no matter how good or bad he is would still have been available after Harris and Perry made their announcement. And if he committed elsewhere, he would be easy to flip if we missed out on Perry and Harris. Now we place ourselves in the position of only signing one of Perry and/or harris when we could have had both
Who ever said “centers can’t dominate”, whatever that even means?… Are you predicting we’ll make the final four or even win a championship this year?
I agree and definitely would be the typical approach. In this case, CMP has seen Cox and Perry go head to head, in person, and must have seen enough to like Cox as well or better than Perry. Unless, he knows something more about Perrys plans.
Casey stated that responsiveness from Perry and camp had dropped way off as of late, prior to the Cox commitment. I’ve also seen reports that Perry liked his Missouri and Mississippi State visits. Who knows? Both Perry and Harris have stated they want to make a decision before basketball season starts. Guess we’ll find out soon enough.
But that is my point. We may be losing out on Perry, but his announcement will be within 2 weeks! We could have waited 2 weeks before accepting another offer from a player who would still be available to sign. This sends a real bad message to Perry if we are still trying to recruit him that we signed the player he just played against! Could we have not waited 2 more weeks?
I take the fact that we signed Cox after Perry stopped responding to communication from Purdue as a sign that he had moved on to other programs . It was likely evident to the coaching staff that he was no longer considering Purdue as a serious commitment destination. I think recruitment communication and honest relationships with recruits is not really a problem for Purdue. Doubtful we recruit over a long term prospect without having a solid read on where they stand.
We lost quite a few games near the end of last year. It wasn't just the tournament loss. IMO it can be traced directly back to inconsistent play at the 2 and 3. Painter tried to rectify the situation by replacing Morton with Newman. It worked for a game or two but Newman wasn't the answer. Loyer's productivity and efficiency dropped off a cliff the last 3rd of the season. Jenkins got more run at the 2 and Painter must not have felt Waddell could help. Bottom line we had no answers at the 2 and 3 at the end of the year. The question is going to be are Colvin/Heide vs Newman and Jones vs Jenkins significant upgrades.
I hope so.
Are you throwing in all teams with a 5 emphasis against all teams with a guard emphasis for the std dev.? I get the ability for a one game get hot upset as well as the winner most games. I'm sure Purdue is an outlier on the 5 compared to other NCAA teams and so although I get the part about guards getting hot for one game, why doesn't Purdue see the guards get hot before the tourney? Why hasn't the Big overall done better? One poster has suggested that the Big doesn't prepare teams for the tourney. I think the advantage for a guard in the tourney, if there is one, is that perhaps the guards are not allowed to be mugged. Second if two good teams are close going into the final second, the Big has to receive the ball, the guards already have it. Shooting 3's at 40% in college is less than shooting 60% with Zach since he also draws fouls and what coach wants you fouling jump shooters? IMO, there is something more at play than guards and centers
Regarding Jenkins I think it would be pretty hard to not be able to match his production/effectiveness, at a minimum. Seemed like a really good guy but I was pretty disappointed with his overall game. I can see why Utah ended up benching him his only year there, and that was on a really bad Utah team. I actually really liked Newman’s game when he was on, but he just never found any consistency. Gotta imagine Colvin and Heide can at a minimum match we got from Newman as well. So will we have an upgrade from either position? I do not know, but I don’t think it can get much worse than it was last year.
I'm the one that has been consistent in saying the B1G is a terrible preparation for the tournament. All you have to do is watch other conferences play throughout the season and you will see the difference. Very little diversity in defense (and I'm not just talking about zone) it's also a lack of aggressive guard play and very little pressing. We need more teams to mix it up like Maryland and Iowa do. Also the way the B1G is officiated is different. Way too much holding/contact is allowed. Bogs down the game and you get those thrilling 52-48 rock fights that we all love....
I'm hopeful that the 4 new teams will bring some diversity and force the conference to adapt. I'm afraid they will be forced to adapt instead and we don't get the change we need.
CMP does a very good job of installing what he wants early in the year. We beat some good teams before they are fully "developed". Then we get into the 3 month slug fest that is the B1G season and we are not prepared for march. I think if we continued to play those other kind of teams throughout the winter we would be much better prepared for the tournament. Just one guys opinion..
I think 4 new teams only means less and less B10 championships for Purdue. Little else.
Tournament change will only come with recruitment or transfer in of dynamic difference making guards. Smith I think is difference maker and moreso with strength & endurance. Colvin big plus there. Heide? Loyer?
Harris needed too for future.....he could be major difference maker for Purdue imo.
I actually feel like more contact has been allowed against Purdue in recent NCAA tournament losses than is the norm in most Big Ten games, with a few notable exceptions, such as the Evanston game. I think that Purdue benefits from a tightly called game and maybe the loosely called games are the best preparation for the tournament, as they force Purdue to adjust.
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