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Miller Coaching Question

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BigRed3588

Oct 2, 2011
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First things first, I have no interest in getting into an argument. I'm just here for some insight into Miller's coaching (not his recruiting, potential success/failure, or any of the other conversations going on in the other thread). I really don't know much about him other than what I've read over the past few days, and I remember seeing his name pop up in various threads on this board over the past couple years.

Regardless of which programs we support, I've always felt basketball fans from the state of Indiana know their stuff. And it seems like some people on this board are familiar with his teams and could break it down. So, what should IU and the rest of the league be expecting from an X's and O's perspective?
 
BigRed3588 said:
First things first, I have no interest in getting into an argument. I'm just here for some insight into Miller's coaching (not his recruiting, potential success/failure, or any of the other conversations going on in the other thread). I really don't know much about him other than what I've read over the past few days, and I remember seeing his name pop up in various threads on this board over the past couple years.

Regardless of which programs we support, I've always felt basketball fans from the state of Indiana know their stuff. And it seems like some people on this board are familiar with his teams and could break it down. So, what should IU and the rest of the league be expecting from an X's and O's perspective?
Click to expand...
*************
nobody has attempted to supply anything and I'm in the same boat. I really don't know anything about him other than he was considered another young coach that would probably move on sometime soon. It seems like the view when Purdue played them a couple of years ago in the secret scrimmage that nobody knew was taking place that he was a coach that liked to push it up thh court..but that is all I can recall. Not knowing anything about him...I would be shocked if there isn't more offensive discipline for IU. There are a lot of coaches nobody knows that could be better than existing coaches in the Big, but even more not as good.

IU will still attack talent, but I can't believe that based upon readings over the years that the IU fans are particularly impressed with the hire...not that they should or should not be impressed since most probably don't have an informed opinion. My guess is coaches at Butler and X were not interested thinking they would "probably" be more desired.

Miller probably won't do as many things that make many of us go huh?
 
He had no negatives, is a reasonably good coach, knows the recruiting area and was affordable. Most of the other names mentioned were ridiculous and way too expensive for IU.
 
tjreese said:
*************
nobody has attempted to supply anything and I'm in the same boat. I really don't know anything about him other than he was considered another young coach that would probably move on sometime soon. It seems like the view when Purdue played them a couple of years ago in the secret scrimmage that nobody knew was taking place that he was a coach that liked to push it up thh court..but that is all I can recall. Not knowing anything about him...I would be shocked if there isn't more offensive discipline for IU. There are a lot of coaches nobody knows that could be better than existing coaches in the Big, but even more not as good.

IU will still attack talent, but I can't believe that based upon readings over the years that the IU fans are particularly impressed with the hire...not that they should or should not be impressed since most probably don't have an informed opinion. My guess is coaches at Butler and X were not interested thinking they would "probably" be more desired.

Miller probably won't do as many things that make many of us go huh?
Click to expand...
Miller is a very good hire for IU.

After the ALRU debacle from last year, Miller was on my short list to replace Painter.

What percentage of IU fans were thrilled about the RMK hire? Prob less than 10%.

Ask yourself, would you be concerned if IU hired Matt Painter. Prob not.
 
M51 said:
Miller is a very good hire for IU.

After the ALRU debacle from last year, Miller was on my short list to replace Painter.

What percentage of IU fans were thrilled about the RMK hire? Prob less than 10%.

Ask yourself, would you be concerned if IU hired Matt Painter. Prob not.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to be concerned with anyone IU hires. "WHY" would Miller be on your short list? What does he do that would make you want him?
 
BigRed3588 said:
First things first, I have no interest in getting into an argument. I'm just here for some insight into Miller's coaching (not his recruiting, potential success/failure, or any of the other conversations going on in the other thread). I really don't know much about him other than what I've read over the past few days, and I remember seeing his name pop up in various threads on this board over the past couple years.

Regardless of which programs we support, I've always felt basketball fans from the state of Indiana know their stuff. And it seems like some people on this board are familiar with his teams and could break it down. So, what should IU and the rest of the league be expecting from an X's and O's perspective?
Click to expand...
Plays 90% man on defense, runs motion, and I thought IU would do better. He'll win some, but in the end I believe he'll do just about what Crean's done. He's not Calipari by any means, he's no Pitino, nor a Self. He's more of a Shaka Smart in my opinion. I doubt he knows much about the schools in Indiana since he only signed one player from the Hoosier in his time in Dayton and it's only 45 miles from the border. My friend in Dayton who I do business with loves him, has season tickets to the Flyers, and thought he'd be hired away before now, which didn't happen.
 
tjreese said:
I'm not going to be concerned with anyone IU hires. "WHY" would Miller be on your short list? What does he do that would make you want him?
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Made it to the Elite 8 for one. I'm not so blind to think that CMP is the one and only for Purdue.
 
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M51 said:
Made it to the Elite 8 for one. I'm not so blind to think that CMP is the one and only for Purdue.
Click to expand...

let me try again..and it is in response to your desire for Miller. What is it that Miller does that you would want him? It is his offense? why? Is it his defense? why? The question is a follow up on your desire of Miller. It is only about miller. Why would you want him...specifics. None of this is to imply you shouldn't want him...it is just a chance for you to give a reason or basis for wanting him. I don't know anything about him, but you have an opinion and so you must have in depth reasons?
 
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tjreese said:
let me try again..and it is in response to your desire for Miller. What is it that Miller does that you would want him? It is his offense? why? Is it his defense? why? The question is a follow up on your desire of Miller. It is only about miller. Why would you want him...specifics. None of this is to imply you shouldn't want him...it is just a chance for you to give a reason or basis for wanting him. I don't know anything about him, but you have an opinion and so you must have in depth reasons?
Click to expand...
TJ, here's an interesting article what the Elite 8 run meant to Dayton...the city.
Dayton cashes in on Flyers' success
May 23, 2014Darren RovellESPN Senior Write

Dayton's surprise run to the Elite Eight of this past season's NCAA tournament was worth nearly $73 million to the city.

Florida on March 29.

The Flyers, a No. 11 seed, beat No. 6 Ohio State, No. 3 Syracuse and No. 10 Stanford in the South Region before falling to the Gators.

The team's run did cost the city of Dayton something. To control the celebrations, the city paid more than $57,000 in overtime to police officers, according to the Dayton Daily News.

Dayton is the sixth-largest city in Ohio behind Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo and Akron.

Schools that have had Final Four runs have concluded that making it just one more game than Dayton did is worth much more. George Mason said its run in 2006 was worth $677 million to the school, and Wichita State's trip to the Final Four in 2013 was said to be worth $555 million.

Butler's trips to the title game were said to be worth $639 million in 2010 and $512 million in 2011.
 
TwinDegrees2 said:
TJ, here's an interesting article what the Elite 8 run meant to Dayton...the city.
Dayton cashes in on Flyers' success
May 23, 2014Darren RovellESPN Senior Write

Dayton's surprise run to the Elite Eight of this past season's NCAA tournament was worth nearly $73 million to the city.

Florida on March 29.

The Flyers, a No. 11 seed, beat No. 6 Ohio State, No. 3 Syracuse and No. 10 Stanford in the South Region before falling to the Gators.

The team's run did cost the city of Dayton something. To control the celebrations, the city paid more than $57,000 in overtime to police officers, according to the Dayton Daily News.

Dayton is the sixth-largest city in Ohio behind Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo and Akron.

Schools that have had Final Four runs have concluded that making it just one more game than Dayton did is worth much more. George Mason said its run in 2006 was worth $677 million to the school, and Wichita State's trip to the Final Four in 2013 was said to be worth $555 million.

Butler's trips to the title game were said to be worth $639 million in 2010 and $512 million in 2011.
Click to expand...


Here's another interesting article that I hadn't seen....shades of Iowa and Pierce:

Dyshawn Pierre was chosen as an All-Atlantic 10 Conference Second Team Selection.[8] As a junior playing as a starter in the guard position, Pierre appeared in the "First Four" game held at The University of Dayton Arena that opened the 2015 NCAA Men's Division 1 basketball tournament. He scored nine points [9] in a close come-back win for the Dayton Flyers against the Boise State Broncos to earn a place in the 64 team tournament. Comically, he found his shorts around his ankles [10] after retrieving one of his six rebounds in the middle of the second half. In the second game of the tournament, Pierre scored 20 points, leading the Flyers over the sixth-seeded Providence Friars for an upset win, 66-53.[11] Notably, Pierre spun inside with two minutes to play, put the ball in the hoop, and sank the "and one" foul shot.

Pierre was accused of sexual assault which was alleged to have occurred on April 23, 2015 and was reported to the University of Dayton in May. Pierre denied the allegations, stating that the sex was consensual. The Montgomery County, Ohio prosecutor's office declined to press charges against the basketball player, citing insufficient evidence. Nonetheless, the University of Dayton suspended Pierre for the fall semester, meaning he would be eligible to play basketball on December 22. He has hired a lawyer and is fighting the suspension.[12] He was allowed back on the team for the 2015-16 season just as Pierce was at Iowa.
 
Last edited:
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tjreese said:
let me try again..and it is in response to your desire for Miller. What is it that Miller does that you would want him? It is his offense? why? Is it his defense? why? The question is a follow up on your desire of Miller. It is only about miller. Why would you want him...specifics. None of this is to imply you shouldn't want him...it is just a chance for you to give a reason or basis for wanting him. I don't know anything about him, but you have an opinion and so you must have in depth reasons?
Click to expand...
Miller was on the list that included Bryce Drew. Don't recall the 3-4 other coaches that I had previously listed. Not important.

Perhaps I just prefer a style of play. Up tempo.

I will go on record. IU will be an Elite 8 team in 3 yrs. Just a gut feeling and no I am not an IU fan.
 
TwinDegrees2 said:
TJ, here's an interesting article what the Elite 8 run meant to Dayton...the city.
Dayton cashes in on Flyers' success
May 23, 2014Darren RovellESPN Senior Write

Dayton's surprise run to the Elite Eight of this past season's NCAA tournament was worth nearly $73 million to the city.

Florida on March 29.

The Flyers, a No. 11 seed, beat No. 6 Ohio State, No. 3 Syracuse and No. 10 Stanford in the South Region before falling to the Gators.

The team's run did cost the city of Dayton something. To control the celebrations, the city paid more than $57,000 in overtime to police officers, according to the Dayton Daily News.

Dayton is the sixth-largest city in Ohio behind Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo and Akron.

Schools that have had Final Four runs have concluded that making it just one more game than Dayton did is worth much more. George Mason said its run in 2006 was worth $677 million to the school, and Wichita State's trip to the Final Four in 2013 was said to be worth $555 million.

Butler's trips to the title game were said to be worth $639 million in 2010 and $512 million in 2011.
Click to expand...

So where does the money come from? Do you remember Murray Sperber? 25 years ago or so I spent a night a week with Dewayne Kurpius concerning school improvements (This is Buzz's husband) and he would tell me MUrray never had a lot of friends in IU. :) BTW, Crean went to an administrators house last night and gave him all of his IU things. This "nice" man was the one asking Kim if I had heard anything as rumors were that Donovan was in town a few days ago. He texted after the IU /Purdue game to say Purdue played a nice game and good luck.
 
M51 said:
Miller was on the list that included Bryce Drew. Don't recall the 3-4 other coaches that I had previously listed. Not important.

Perhaps I just prefer a style of play. Up tempo.

I will go on record. IU will be an Elite 8 team in 3 yrs. Just a gut feeling and no I am not an IU fan.
Click to expand...
nobody is more uptempo than Crean...do you hate to see him leave?
 
M51 said:
Miller was on the list that included Bryce Drew. Don't recall the 3-4 other coaches that I had previously listed. Not important.

Perhaps I just prefer a style of play. Up tempo.

I will go on record. IU will be an Elite 8 team in 3 yrs. Just a gut feeling and no I am not an IU fan.
Click to expand...
I think I have a stale $100 bill in the sock drawer that I'm willing to take that bet of an Elite 8 in three years. I'll be more than happy to tuck it back if you're willing to man up on your prediction. Just because it says Indiana on the jersey doesn't mean they're an Elite 8 team. Heck, we can even do it for a charity if you want.
 
TwinDegrees2 said:
Plays 90% man on defense, runs motion, and I thought IU would do better. He'll win some, but in the end I believe he'll do just about what Crean's done. He's not Calipari by any means, he's no Pitino, nor a Self. He's more of a Shaka Smart in my opinion. I doubt he knows much about the schools in Indiana since he only signed one player from the Hoosier in his time in Dayton and it's only 45 miles from the border. My friend in Dayton who I do business with loves him, has season tickets to the Flyers, and thought he'd be hired away before now, which didn't happen.
Click to expand...

The lack of experience recruiting Indiana does concern me some, but I feel like his style of play, from what I've read at least, could work if he does recruit the state.

I've felt for years that with the right offense you can have success recruiting Indiana players, even if you don't land the top prospects. We always ran the motion when I was growing up, along with about every other team we played. We also had the fundamentals beat into us at an early age. These were things that Crean obviously didn't look at while recruiting. Given what I've read, it makes sense to me that Miller's style could mesh with the kind of players Indiana produces. But, I haven't seen enough to know how good he is when it comes to coaching that offense. I'm also a little out of touch with the style of play you see from high schools in the state now.

Either way, it has me excited for the IU/Purdue matchups again. I felt like Painter struggled a few years not so much because of his coaching but because his players didn't always fit the motion offense. He has the right guys in place now though, and I think he will going forward. Obviously it will take the IU players some time to adjust to a real offense, but if Miller plays motion/man-to-man it should make for some good basketball when the two meet up.
 
BigRed3588 said:
The lack of experience recruiting Indiana does concern me some, but I feel like his style of play, from what I've read at least, could work if he does recruit the state.

I've felt for years that with the right offense you can have success recruiting Indiana players, even if you don't land the top prospects. We always ran the motion when I was growing up, along with about every other team we played. We also had the fundamentals beat into us at an early age. These were things that Crean obviously didn't look at while recruiting. Given what I've read, it makes sense to me that Miller's style could mesh with the kind of players Indiana produces. But, I haven't seen enough to know how good he is when it comes to coaching that offense. I'm also a little out of touch with the style of play you see from high schools in the state now.

Either way, it has me excited for the IU/Purdue matchups again. I felt like Painter struggled a few years not so much because of his coaching but because his players didn't always fit the motion offense. He has the right guys in place now though, and I think he will going forward. Obviously it will take the IU players some time to adjust to a real offense, but if Miller plays motion/man-to-man it should make for some good basketball when the two meet up.
Click to expand...
From the few times I've watched, they're very similar in style. As much trouble as Painter had in getting his players to Purdue, I think Miller may have more trouble getting them to IU. Remember.....everyone said at the end of Knight's time at IU, Indiana kids wanted to play more up tempo. If Crean hadn't pissed off every Indiana HS coach, he might have secured a few. Should be interesting.
 
TwinDegrees2 said:
From the few times I've watched, they're very similar in style. As much trouble as Painter had in getting his players to Purdue, I think Miller may have more trouble getting them to IU. Remember.....everyone said at the end of Knight's time at IU, Indiana kids wanted to play more up tempo. If Crean hadn't pissed off every Indiana HS coach, he might have secured a few. Should be interesting.
Click to expand...

Yeah, of all his deficiencies, I think that was his biggest mistake. He pissed off coaches and started recruiting athletes from the East coast when he should've stayed home recruiting basketball players.

Frankly, I don't really care if he lands the Romeo Langfords of the state. I just want to see smart, fundamental basketball again. And I think he can do that and win as long as he can get those second tier guys that know their role and operate as a cohesive unit. But he'll have to be a legitimate coach to do it.
 
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Maybe the reason Archie hasn't recruited Indiana s because he has little chance of signing anyone who will change the dynamic. You currently have IU, Purdue, Notre Dame, Kentucky, Louisville, Xavier, Cincinnati and even DUKE AND UNC all recruiting top players from Indiana. Seems a huge waste of time to me.
 
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Heller said:
Maybe the reason Archie hasn't recruited Indiana s because he has little chance of signing anyone who will change the dynamic. You currently have IU, Purdue, Notre Dame, Kentucky, Louisville, Xavier, Cincinnati and even DUKE AND UNC all recruiting top players from Indiana. Seems a huge waste of time to me.
Click to expand...
Well Hell, Heller....if he's good enough to reach a Elite 8, I'd think players would be flocking to play for him. A lot of Indiana kids go to Xavier.....and by that analogy, maybe IU should have hired Mack.
 
BigRed3588 said:
Yeah, of all his deficiencies, I think that was his biggest mistake. He pissed off coaches and started recruiting athletes from the East coast when he should've stayed home recruiting basketball players.

Frankly, I don't really care if he lands the Romeo Langfords of the state. I just want to see smart, fundamental basketball again. And I think he can do that and win as long as he can get those second tier guys that know their role and operate as a cohesive unit. But he'll have to be a legitimate coach to do it.
Click to expand...
At IU, to be successful in today's world he has to recruit the one and done's and I don't think his coaching style is conducive to getting them to come play for him.
 
I don't see him having a problem recruiting. What modern kid doesn't want to wear clown pants to the game???
 
TwinDegrees2 said:
At IU, to be successful in today's world he has to recruit the one and done's and I don't think his coaching style is conducive to getting them to come play for him.
Click to expand...

I think you may well be right about him struggling to recruit one-and-dones, but I wouldn't agree that it's integral to success. Look at this years final four; no one-and-done's. And if you look at NCAA champions over the past ten years, there was really only one school that you could say was led by freshmen. Duke was undoubtedly freshman led with Jones, Winslow, and Okafor. I could see maybe an argument for UK but even then I think you could say that Terrence Smith and the senior (Miller?) were crucial to UKs run. But when you look at who was leading the other champions, they were upperclassmen (Napier, Smith, Walker, Lawson/Hansbrough, Hart). Not to say that freshman don't make an impact but I wouldn't go as far as to say they're a necessity.
 
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M51 said:
Miller was on the list that included Bryce Drew. Don't recall the 3-4 other coaches that I had previously listed. Not important.

Perhaps I just prefer a style of play. Up tempo.

I will go on record. IU will be an Elite 8 team in 3 yrs. Just a gut feeling and no I am not an IU fan.
Click to expand...
I am not a Loosier fan either and I hope you are wrong.
 
SIBoiler2 said:
I don't see him having a problem recruiting. What modern kid doesn't want to wear clown pants to the game???
Click to expand...
Dakich is campaigning to get rid of the candy pants. Man, without Crean and stripes, where will our fun come from?
 
Heller said:
No. People forget that Xavier is a great gig. No football, great facilities, major city and he's making a lot of cash now. Oh, and the fans seem to adore the guy. So why would he want to subject himself to the delusionals?
Click to expand...
And he AND his wife are both from Cincy.
 
Best hire IU could have made was Cuonzo Martin. Same is true of Purdue when they go shopping for a coach again.

Zo can flat-out recruit, probably the best recruiter in the nation. He was reeling 'em in at lowly Cal.
 
Heller said:
Mack didn't want the job.
Click to expand...
If IU had landed Mack I would be concerned. Miller - not so much. Miller was the best IU could get and he seems like a pretty underwhelming hire to me. Schools like UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, and etc get proven coaches from power 5 conferences to come there. IU gets mid major coaches from obscure conferences.
 
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dubtown1980 said:
Miller is better than those guy. This guy is going to do big things.
Click to expand...
What guys? Mack, Marshall, Donovan who? I like the hire because he is the best IU could get. It isn't an elite job no matter what the media says because IU can't hire any big name coaches. Hell Majerus turned it down to coach St Louis. So....it may be elite to the media but if it were truly elite big name guys would be lining up to take the job. It took Bill Self about 30 seconds to jump from Illinois to Kansas a few years back. IU just isn't in that class when it comes to coaches.
 
M
TwinDegrees2 said:
Well Hell, Heller....if he's good enough to reach a Elite 8, I'd think players would be flocking to play for him. A lot of Indiana kids go to Xavier.....and by that analogy, maybe IU should have hired Mack.
Click to expand...
Mack was the one guy I didn't want them to hire.
 
BigRed3588 said:
First things first, I have no interest in getting into an argument. I'm just here for some insight into Miller's coaching (not his recruiting, potential success/failure, or any of the other conversations going on in the other thread). I really don't know much about him other than what I've read over the past few days, and I remember seeing his name pop up in various threads on this board over the past couple years.

Regardless of which programs we support, I've always felt basketball fans from the state of Indiana know their stuff. And it seems like some people on this board are familiar with his teams and could break it down. So, what should IU and the rest of the league be expecting from an X's and O's perspective?
Click to expand...
Are you talking about Ryan Miller?
 
M51 said:
Miller was on the list that included Bryce Drew. Don't recall the 3-4 other coaches that I had previously listed. Not important.

Perhaps I just prefer a style of play. Up tempo.

I will go on record. IU will be an Elite 8 team in 3 yrs. Just a gut feeling and no I am not an IU fan.
Click to expand...


Hmm up tempo?

Archie Miller?

Hmmmmm
 
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