Matt Painter and FF / NC

[collegehoopsfan123]

I say Coach Painter has a very good chance of taking Purdue to the FF before his career is done.

As far as wining a NC, anything can happen, but I will say no. Hope I am wrong.


What do other Purdue fans think? How much longer will he coach at Purdue?


Look forward to sincere answers. Go Boilers!

 

[Bleedinggoldandblack]

2023-4 season, FF... champ who knows, roll the dice. How long he stays . He is a lifer.

 

[Indy_Rider]

2023-4 season, FF... champ who knows, roll the dice. How long he stays . He is a lifer.

I used to think that, now with NIL and portal, I don't know.

 

[Chris P Bacon]

I used to think that, now with NIL and portal, I don't know.

I contend that as things get worse, we'll see more and more coaches start to bail.

That aside, this thread is only going to spiral in to the abyss I am betting. The topic is a good one for sure, but one thing I have learned about this forum in my short time, is that conversations rarely stay cordial for long.

 

[BoilerDeac]

I say Coach Painter has a very good chance of taking Purdue to the FF before his career is done.

As far as wining a NC, anything can happen, but I will say no. Hope I am wrong.


What do other Purdue fans think? How much longer will he coach at Purdue?


Look forward to sincere answers. Go Boilers!

I'd be happy with just a FF, and I think there's less than a 25% chance that happens, especially with all the NIL stuff now.

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

I'd be happy with just a FF, and I think there's less than a 25% chance that happens, especially with all the NIL stuff now.

I'm with you. I'm only giving us < 10% chance due to NIL.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Purdue should be able to make 1 or 2 Final Fours a decade. That should be a realistic expectation.

Just saying.

 

[Roeder]

A F4 will likely happen at some point, but I'm not going to obsess over it. A NC seems very unlikely, but who knows?

 

[Hausta01]

Purdue should be able to make 1 or 2 Final Fours a decade. That should be a realistic expectation.

Just saying.

Yep. We had 2 teams good enough to do it the last 5 years and one team lucky enough to be 3 seconds away from it. I would expect similar things over the next 5 years.

 

[ehuffma1]

I'm with you. I'm only giving us < 10% chance due to NIL.

I think we all are seeing the initial negatives of the NIL because of N Pack. I think there might be some long term benefits for Purdue. Hear me out. If Kansas and other teams have always paid players, how does this change things? Is there a possibility that Purdue could offer some good NIL deals on the future? Maybe we actually are able to compete in this space a bit. The transfer portal has handed us our lunch for a bit, but we will still be good next year. We will still have a good roster (presumably if nobody of consequence leaves) in the next few years.

 

[Wolegib]

I doubt purdue ever offers any NIL packages remotely close to what schools in major metropolitan communities can offer. the idea behind NIl is for major business to market their product . i just can't see XXX or Arnies giving anybody $100,000. and i doubt BOB Rohrman is going to spend a lot either.


so in a world where Purdue can't compete financially, I would put their chances of a final 4 at < 1%. the only hope Purdue has is if every mega player becomes injured. i'd hate to depend on that strategy.

maybe if painter ditched his motion offense and allowed a point guard to run his attack, we'd have a better chance at winning. Centers win regular season games. point guards win championships.

 

[Hausta01]

I doubt purdue ever offers any NIL packages remotely close to what schools in major metropolitan communities can offer. the idea behind NIl is for major business to market their product . i just can't see XXX or Arnies giving anybody $100,000. and i doubt BOB Rohrman is going to spend a lot either.


so in a world where Purdue can't compete financially, I would put their chances of a final 4 at < 1%. the only hope Purdue has is if every mega player becomes injured. i'd hate to depend on that strategy.

maybe if painter ditched his motion offense and allowed a point guard to run his attack, we'd have a better chance at winning. Centers win regular season games. point guards win championships.

So I guess every SEC school is done winning then.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Purdue should be able to make 1 or 2 Final Fours a decade. That should be a realistic expectation.

Just saying.

Why should a team that's only been to the Final Four TWICE in their entire history, be able to make a FF twice in a decade? I don't think NIL will be our friend getting that done.

It's nice to dream. but try to stay somewhere within visual range of reality.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Why should a team that's only been to the Final Four TWICE in their entire history, be able to make a FF twice in a decade? I don't think NIL will be our friend getting that done.

It's nice to dream. but try to stay somewhere within visual range of reality.

Purdue 1969 and 1980 Final Fours are 11 years apart, pretty close to a 10-year period. That is 1 or 2 FFs a decade. It should be the realistic expectation for Purdue basketball since it already happened once before and being in a Power 5 conference, too.


This was Purdue reality during those times, no reason "this reality" could not have continued up until the present moment and into the future as well.


This is a realistic expectation for Purdue men's basketball. And if its not, then change is needed.

Go Boilers!

 

[johnboiler123]

I doubt purdue ever offers any NIL packages remotely close to what schools in major metropolitan communities can offer. the idea behind NIl is for major business to market their product . i just can't see XXX or Arnies giving anybody $100,000. and i doubt BOB Rohrman is going to spend a lot either.


so in a world where Purdue can't compete financially, I would put their chances of a final 4 at < 1%. the only hope Purdue has is if every mega player becomes injured. i'd hate to depend on that strategy.

maybe if painter ditched his motion offense and allowed a point guard to run his attack, we'd have a better chance at winning. Centers win regular season games. point guards win championships.

You really seem to have no clue as to how nil works. It doesn't matter where the school is located as long as you have some billionaire booster willing to shell out large amounts of money, or a collective with a lot of people donating towards it. It's not about advertising, it's simply pay for play under the guise of nil.

 

[BSIT]

I say Coach Painter has a very good chance of taking Purdue to the FF before his career is done.

As far as wining a NC, anything can happen, but I will say no. Hope I am wrong.


What do other Purdue fans think? How much longer will he coach at Purdue?


Look forward to sincere answers. Go Boilers!

Butler may return to F4 quicker than Purdue

 

[PUQBMan.]

I doubt purdue ever offers any NIL packages remotely close to what schools in major metropolitan communities can offer. the idea behind NIl is for major business to market their product . i just can't see XXX or Arnies giving anybody $100,000. and i doubt BOB Rohrman is going to spend a lot either.


so in a world where Purdue can't compete financially, I would put their chances of a final 4 at < 1%. the only hope Purdue has is if every mega player becomes injured. i'd hate to depend on that strategy.

maybe if painter ditched his motion offense and allowed a point guard to run his attack, we'd have a better chance at winning. Centers win regular season games. point guards win championships.

Well you are right about one thing, Bob Rohrman is most definitely not going to be spending a lot.

 

[BSIT]

Well you are right about one thing, Bob Rohrman is most definitely not going to be spending a lot.

But his family might

 

[titaniumbolt]

Purdue 1969 and 1980 Final Fours are 11 years apart, pretty close to a 10-year period. That is 1 or 2 FFs a decade. It should be the realistic expectation for Purdue basketball since it already happened once before and being in a Power 5 conference, too.


This was Purdue reality during those times, no reason "this reality" could not have continued up until the present moment and into the future as well.


This is a realistic expectation for Purdue men's basketball. And if its not, then change is needed.

Go Boilers!

Expectations have lowered since 1980

 

[bonefish1]

I doubt purdue ever offers any NIL packages remotely close to what schools in major metropolitan communities can offer. the idea behind NIl is for major business to market their product . i just can't see XXX or Arnies giving anybody $100,000. and i doubt BOB Rohrman is going to spend a lot either.


so in a world where Purdue can't compete financially, I would put their chances of a final 4 at < 1%. the only hope Purdue has is if every mega player becomes injured. i'd hate to depend on that strategy.

maybe if painter ditched his motion offense and allowed a point guard to run his attack, we'd have a better chance at winning. Centers win regular season games. point guards win championships.

Why do you have it in your head that Purdue can't compete financially? Is the Univ of Miami, a private school, well past it's glory days in football and a 'never was' in basketball, better off financially than Purdue (and no, it's got nothing to do with weather or the beach).

 

[bonefish1]

By the time Colvin is a Jr, if he stays that long, Painter will have been at Purdue about 22 years. I think this team coming up with Gibbs, Colvin, TRK, Furst, maybe Berg, is his best shot at a NC. If he doesn't get there with that team, he'll probably retire.

 

[Aamesker]

Why do you have it in your head that Purdue can't compete financially? Is the Univ of Miami, a private school, well past it's glory days in football and a 'never was' in basketball, better off financially than Purdue (and no, it's got nothing to do with weather or the beach).

NIL has nothing to do with the financial capabilities of the university itself. Miami easily has more boosters that will be willing to pay to see them on top than Purdue does, just look at Ruiz and LifeWallet.

 

[bonefish1]

NIL has nothing to do with the financial capabilities of the university itself. Miami easily has more boosters that will be willing to pay to see them on top than Purdue does, just look at Ruiz and LifeWallet.

You've provided a single example in Ruiz and LifeWallet.
UofM only has about 17K students, less than half of what Purdue has. Purdue has significantly more alumni and alumni dollars floating around out there than Miami does.
So no, Miami doesn't 'easily have more boosters' than Purdue. In fact, it's probably the opposite.
In fact, over the last 6 years, Purdue and Miami have had very similar home attendance for football, and significantly less than Purdue basketball.

 

[Aamesker]

You've provided a single example in Ruiz and LifeWallet.
UofM only has about 17K students, less than half of what Purdue has. Purdue has significantly more alumni and alumni dollars floating around out there than Miami does.
So no, Miami doesn't 'easily have more boosters' than Purdue. In fact, it's probably the opposite.
In fact, over the last 6 years, Purdue and Miami have had very similar home attendance for football, and significantly less than Purdue basketball.

"Easily has more boosters willing to pay" was the full quote and it's pretty obvious that's been the case so far. A couple boosters have been willing to throw their weight around to try and get Miami relevant on the national stage of CBB, while no one has been willing to throw money around for Purdue players.

 

[bonefish1]

"Easily has more boosters willing to pay" was the full quote and it's pretty obvious that's been the case so far. A couple boosters have been willing to throw their weight around to try and get Miami relevant on the national stage of CBB, while no one has been willing to throw money around for Purdue players.

Who's the other booster for Miami you're referring to?

As Joe Public, I don't think we know what Purdue's NIL strategy is yet, who's involved, what kind of money we're talking, etc,

 

[Aamesker]

Who's the other booster for Miami you're referring to?

As Joe Public, I don't think we know what Purdue's NIL strategy is yet, who's involved, what kind of money we're talking, etc,

Dan Lambert offered $500/month to the entire football team to promote his gym.

I don't think Purdue will be getting these big NIL deals, simply because there aren't that many boosters willing to throw a quarter of a million dollars at a singular athlete

 

[bonefish1]

Dan Lambert offered $500/month to the entire football team to promote his gym.

I don't think Purdue will be getting these big NIL deals, simply because there aren't that many boosters willing to throw a quarter of a million dollars at a singular athlete

I'd say we don't know what Purdue will do yet. Purdue has a ton of very wealthy alumni. Maybe some of them have been waiting for something like NIL to impact athletics.
Just saying, we don't know a lot yet or what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[Aamesker]

I'd say we don't know what Purdue will do yet. Purdue has a ton of very wealthy alumni. Maybe some of them have been waiting for something like NIL to impact athletics.
Just saying, we don't know a lot yet or what's going on behind the scenes.

I feel like we've seen what the boosters are going to do, nothing really. Could the new director of NIL make improvements to where these other schools are at? Possibly, but I feel like we don't have the alumni base that will drop a bag on these big deals all themselves. There's no overarching "brand' for Purdue, like there is for Miami, Duke, UNC, Ohio State, Alabama football etc.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

(Disclaimer - as I realize that many of you may already understand this)
The appropriate, approved way to run NIL necessitates NO involvement from the university.

An IU perspective FWIW: I heard Woody interviewed about NIL this week. In summary, he said he's fine with athletes getting paid as long as getting an education and the team are the first priorities. Then he said that he tells recruits and their families that he and his staff will never have any involvement in NIL - that it's not their arena and it won't be under the rules.

This is not a revelation.

So, what is the reason that IU is doing pretty well with NIL/player retention? Not because there's a U Miami-like booster out there, it's because a few media/marketing-savvy alums have designed an NIL collective; a charitable organization that collects NIL money from all corners and distributes it to athletes as per the collective's board decision. So Grace Berger and Race Thompson got nice NIL deals, for example.

And because the NIL pays players for charity work, the collective contributors get to take it as a charitable contribution, and the players get to do something or promote something worthwhile in exchange for the NIL deal. Doing this takes an individual like Ruiz out of the equation, and reduces the chance that a less-savvy kid like Wong will need to 'negotiate' with an individual like Ruiz.

That is not to say that IU's approach is novel or superior; that's just how it seems to be set up when it works and is run within the rules, while still having real impact. IU is not using NIL to 'recruit' but is using the collective for player retention.

 

[FirstDownB]

Dan Lambert offered $500/month to the entire football team to promote his gym.

I don't think Purdue will be getting these big NIL deals, simply because there aren't that many boosters willing to throw a quarter of a million dollars at a singular athlete

I think a point many people are missing is that programs like Miami that have a long history of being dirty had a running start on NIL because they have mega boosters who are used to providing large sums of cash to athletes and can now give it to them above board. Whereas traditionally clean programs like Purdue who have been discouraging that type of behavior for decades now have to try to convince their boosters to do the complete opposite of what they've learned as right and good.

Add to that our midwestern sensibilities and conservatism vs. the flash of a place like Miami. I mean, really, a slime ball billionaire personal injury lawyer from South Beach. How straight-out-of-central-casting can you get. Is this a movie or real life? It is going to take at least a generation to change our base to match that way of thinking.

 

[Hausta01]

I think a point many people are missing is that programs like Miami that have a long history of being dirty had a running start on NIL because they have mega boosters who are used to providing large sums of cash to athletes and can now give it to them above board. Whereas traditionally clean programs like Purdue who have been discouraging that type of behavior for decades now have to try to convince their boosters to do the complete opposite of what they've learned as right and good.

Add to that our midwestern sensibilities and conservatism vs. the flash of a place like Miami. I mean, really, a slime ball billionaire personal injury lawyer from South Beach. How straight-out-of-central-casting can you get. Is this a movie or real life? It is going to take at least a generation to change our base to match that way of thinking.

The environment didn't really change, players were getting handouts at Alabama/OSU etc already. It's more organized now I guess, and some teams may benefit but overall not much will change, IMO.

 

[FirstDownB]

The environment didn't really change, players were getting handouts at Alabama/OSU etc already. It's more organized now I guess, and some teams may benefit but overall not much will change, IMO.

Right. And to expect Purdue boosters to do an immediate about-face to be like Alabama/OSU/Miami boosters is not realistic.

 

[johnboiler123]

I think a point many people are missing is that programs like Miami that have a long history of being dirty had a running start on NIL because they have mega boosters who are used to providing large sums of cash to athletes and can now give it to them above board. Whereas traditionally clean programs like Purdue who have been discouraging that type of behavior for decades now have to try to convince their boosters to do the complete opposite of what they've learned as right and good.

Add to that our midwestern sensibilities and conservatism vs. the flash of a place like Miami. I mean, really, a slime ball billionaire personal injury lawyer from South Beach. How straight-out-of-central-casting can you get. Is this a movie or real life? It is going to take at least a generation to change our base to match that way of thinking.

Miami was not paying basketball transfers 800k for 2 years before nil. The environment has definitely changed. Not disputing they were dirty before but, people who previously may not have wanted to have been involved with paying players are now all in since its perfectly legal.

 

[Hausta01]

Right. And to expect Purdue boosters to do an immediate about-face to be like Alabama/OSU/Miami boosters is not realistic.

Agree

 

[FirstDownB]

Miami was not paying basketball transfers 800k for 2 years before nil. The environment has definitely changed. Not disputing they were dirty before but, people who previously may not have wanted to have been involved with paying players are now all in since its perfectly legal.

Who knows what was going on behind closed doors. Miami as a whole does not have a clean reputation.

 

[bonefish1]

I feel like we've seen what the boosters are going to do, nothing really. Could the new director of NIL make improvements to where these other schools are at? Possibly, but I feel like we don't have the alumni base that will drop a bag on these big deals all themselves. There's no overarching "brand' for Purdue, like there is for Miami, Duke, UNC, Ohio State, Alabama football etc.

Miami hasn't been relevant in football since the 90s. Like I showed before, they have about the same attendance as Purdue for football and less than 1/2 that for home basketball. So, it's not like they have this rabid, gigantic fan base.
All you need is a couple wealthy alumni/donors and that can have a huge impact on NIL.
The Dir of Purdue's NIL program needs to be one hell of a salesman.
There's Purdue people out there with big bucks, they just need to be convinced to put some of that money towards NIL. (Drew Brees......would be high on my list of phone calls)

 

[bonefish1]

(Disclaimer - as I realize that many of you may already understand this)
The appropriate, approved way to run NIL necessitates NO involvement from the university.

An IU perspective FWIW: I heard Woody interviewed about NIL this week. In summary, he said he's fine with athletes getting paid as long as getting an education and the team are the first priorities. Then he said that he tells recruits and their families that he and his staff will never have any involvement in NIL - that it's not their arena and it won't be under the rules.

This is not a revelation.

So, what is the reason that IU is doing pretty well with NIL/player retention? Not because there's a U Miami-like booster out there, it's because a few media/marketing-savvy alums have designed an NIL collective; a charitable organization that collects NIL money from all corners and distributes it to athletes as per the collective's board decision. So Grace Berger and Race Thompson got nice NIL deals, for example.

And because the NIL pays players for charity work, the collective contributors get to take it as a charitable contribution, and the players get to do something or promote something worthwhile in exchange for the NIL deal. Doing this takes an individual like Ruiz out of the equation, and reduces the chance that a less-savvy kid like Wong will need to 'negotiate' with an individual like Ruiz.

That is not to say that IU's approach is novel or superior; that's just how it seems to be set up when it works and is run within the rules, while still having real impact. IU is not using NIL to 'recruit' but is using the collective for player retention.

I wouldn't put too much value into what a head coach says about NIL during an interview. Of course he's going to say exactly what he's supposed to say.
Now, what he says when he's talking to those representing the collective is probably a very different story. This goes for Painter as well.

 

[bonefish1]

I think a point many people are missing is that programs like Miami that have a long history of being dirty had a running start on NIL because they have mega boosters who are used to providing large sums of cash to athletes and can now give it to them above board. Whereas traditionally clean programs like Purdue who have been discouraging that type of behavior for decades now have to try to convince their boosters to do the complete opposite of what they've learned as right and good.

Add to that our midwestern sensibilities and conservatism vs. the flash of a place like Miami. I mean, really, a slime ball billionaire personal injury lawyer from South Beach. How straight-out-of-central-casting can you get. Is this a movie or real life? It is going to take at least a generation to change our base to match that way of thinking.

I think you've watched Scarface one too many times.

Miami hasn't been relevant in college football for 20+ years (and they've never been relevant in basketball). If geographical location had anything to do with it, I would thing UCLA and Rutgers would be loading up on NIL talent. I'm sure there's plenty of Rutgers alum working on Wall St.

 

[bonefish1]

Right. And to expect Purdue boosters to do an immediate about-face to be like Alabama/OSU/Miami boosters is not realistic.

You have no idea the conversations that are taking place with the top earning Purdue boosters/alumni (unless you're one of them).
This isn't the same mailer solicitation that the JPC sends to Joe 6-pack asking for some support.

 

[Aamesker]

Miami hasn't been relevant in football since the 90s. Like I showed before, they have about the same attendance as Purdue for football and less than 1/2 that for home basketball. So, it's not like they have this rabid, gigantic fan base.
All you need is a couple wealthy alumni/donors and that can have a huge impact on NIL.
The Dir of Purdue's NIL program needs to be one hell of a salesman.
There's Purdue people out there with big bucks, they just need to be convinced to put some of that money towards NIL. (Drew Brees......would be high on my list of phone calls)

What does attendance have to do with NIL boosters? And being relevant in the 90s is exactly what these boosters remember and want to be back to and they're willing to pay the big bucks to get them back. Not to mention they're basketball team just made the E8 and were up at half against the eventual champions