How Painter stays

[WLPU1989]

What has Mike Woodson ever done at iu?....he's had an all world player his first 2 years and hasn't won sh!t....and before you put the head to head record with Painter remember painter is 5-0 against your boy shrews....

Let’s see…
- Played for years in the NBA vs CMP =O
- Coached in the NBA for 25+ years
- 2 years at IU after taking over a program gutted by Archie Miller & Tom Crean, he went 2 NCAA Tourneys when national media called it bust hire… same guys who kiss CMP back side
- 3-1 vs Painter who had our only #1 ranked teams in the school history.
- Woodson came to Mackey with his Sr pg out for the season and kick Matt’s butt. Matt was so lost in that game, he had no idea what was going on
- Add to the fact that his recruiting is starting to take off too. He just stole a Duke commit from KU

That’s why Mike Woodson scares me.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Coach Painter can stay as long as he wants.
He could lose every game for 5 years straight and still stay.

Not really a great defender. Not bad with the ball and keeping the ball moving.

Bottom line, we can't have two or three "glue guys" on the court at the same time. Someone has to be able to hit the three at a good clip to make the offense work. At this point if its not coming from the 2 position we're going to be pretty one dimensional on offense.

I think Loyer will shoot better this year but if he doesn't.........

yeh, can say that about several guys.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Let’s see…
- Played for years in the NBA vs CMP =O
- Coached in the NBA for 25+ years
- 2 years at IU after taking over a program gutted by Archie Miller & Tom Crean, he went 2 NCAA Tourneys when national media called it bust hire… same guys who kiss CMP back side
- 3-1 vs Painter who had our only #1 ranked teams in the school history.
- Woodson came to Mackey with his Sr pg out for the season and kick Matt’s butt. Matt was so lost in that game, he had no idea what was going on
- Add to the fact that his recruiting is starting to take off too. He just stole a Duke commit from KU

That’s why Mike Woodson scares me.

played in the nba scares you?

 

[WLPU1989]

played in the nba scares you?

One of many factors, yes. When he’s recruiting top talent in state and competing against Izzo/Painter, he can share his experiences playing in the league and what it took to not only get there but stay for a while.

 

[johnboiler123]

Let’s see…
- Played for years in the NBA vs CMP =O
- Coached in the NBA for 25+ years
- 2 years at IU after taking over a program gutted by Archie Miller & Tom Crean, he went 2 NCAA Tourneys when national media called it bust hire… same guys who kiss CMP back side
- 3-1 vs Painter who had our only #1 ranked teams in the school history.
- Woodson came to Mackey with his Sr pg out for the season and kick Matt’s butt. Matt was so lost in that game, he had no idea what was going on
- Add to the fact that his recruiting is starting to take off too. He just stole a Duke commit from KU

That’s why Mike Woodson scares me.

Iu always recruits well, that’s nothing new. As far as Woodson, he may be better than Archie or crean, but that’s not saying much and it’s still way too early to tell how successful he’ll be(or won’t be). This is now going to be a roster with mostly his players for the first time since he’s been there, and his team construction doesn’t appear to be that good into next season. Overall, definitely not a coach to be feared IMO. He has had painters number, but so has Howard and Howard sucks. Painter just struggles with athletic teams due to his recruiting style and lack of athleticism on his teams.

 

[Wolegib]

I'll add this to the conversation. We know Huggins was fired by West Virginia. he was a pretty well known and respected coach and had a decent record and a decent team.

the West Virginia AD started a national search to replace him, but quit looking after about a week and hired the assistant coach for one year.

I'm throwing this out there as an example of its not that easy to attract a great coach to a well respected program. admittedly, the Purdue job is a lot better than the West Virginia job. But if West Virginia can't find anybody to take their opening, you can imagine the caliber of coaches applying for any Purdue vacancy might not be as great as desired.

 

[WLPU1989]

Iu always recruits well, that’s nothing new. As far as Woodson, he may be better than Archie or crean, but that’s not saying much and it’s still way too early to tell how successful he’ll be(or won’t be). This is now going to be a roster with mostly his players for the first time since he’s been there, and his team construction doesn’t appear to be that good into next season. Overall, definitely not a coach to be feared IMO. He has had painters number, but so has Howard and Howard sucks. Painter just struggles with athletic teams due to his recruiting style and lack of athleticism on his teams.

I hope you are right. I feel like people are underestimating his coaching. His mentors are Bob Knight & Larry Brown, and their achievements speak for themselves.

 

[tjreese]

Iu always recruits well, that’s nothing new. As far as Woodson, he may be better than Archie or crean, but that’s not saying much and it’s still way too early to tell how successful he’ll be(or won’t be). This is now going to be a roster with mostly his players for the first time since he’s been there, and his team construction doesn’t appear to be that good into next season. Overall, definitely not a coach to be feared IMO. He has had painters number, but so has Howard and Howard sucks. Painter just struggles with athletic teams due to his recruiting style and lack of athleticism on his teams.

Creans teams were decent athletically. When Phinisee had the game of his career and the same game that Trevion short armed a 4 foot shot by two feet and then seconds later Shasha hit from behind on the board knocked the ball out of bounds giving IU another try in which Phinisee made, it got the monkey off IU's back...

I give Woodson credit for getting the players to defend and play smarter than the previous years. However, soon Purdue will be older and IU will be younger and Woody's win record might take some hits

 

[johnboiler123]

Creans teams were decent athletically. When Phinisee had the game of his career and the same game that Trevion short armed a 4 foot shot by two feet and then seconds later Shasha hit from behind on the board knocked the ball out of bounds giving IU another try in which Phinisee made, it got the monkey off IU's back...

I give Woodson credit for getting the players to defend and play smarter than the previous years. However, soon Purdue will be older and IU will be younger and Woody's win record might take some hits

I think this year will show what kind of coach we can expect going forward from Woodson. I would say a sweet 16 is their absolute ceiling. At the same time I wouldn’t be surprised if they miss the tournament by a game or two. Probably somewhere in between where they win around 22 games and lose in the first or second round. Just don’t know, as Woodson is still somewhat of an unknown commodity.

 

[BoilerDeac]

It’s guard play that needs to be fixed. It’s always guards with painter. Other than carsen/Ivey/Moore not a single other guard from painter in two decades has even made 3rd team all big ten. I touched on this in another thread that we need more talent aside from loyer and smith, and was called an iu troll and told my opinion stinks like an asshole.

You're spot on.

 

[Thadoc1]

Let’s see…
- Played for years in the NBA vs CMP =O
- Coached in the NBA for 25+ years
- 2 years at IU after taking over a program gutted by Archie Miller & Tom Crean, he went 2 NCAA Tourneys when national media called it bust hire… same guys who kiss CMP back side
- 3-1 vs Painter who had our only #1 ranked teams in the school history.
- Woodson came to Mackey with his Sr pg out for the season and kick Matt’s butt. Matt was so lost in that game, he had no idea what was going on
- Add to the fact that his recruiting is starting to take off too. He just stole a Duke commit from KU

That’s why Mike Woodson scares me.

Isiah Thomas played in the nba and he sux as a coach....Thomas was also an nba coach, didn't help him any when he went back to college....iu had tjd and they couldn't make the second weekend with Woodson....that's a crime....sure a winning record over painter but since you worship Shrewsbury and Painter is 5-0 against him, you're contradicting yourself...this iu team still doesn't have any shooting, poorly constructed....got anymore awesome opinions junior?....

 

[WLPU1989]

Isiah Thomas played in the nba and he sux as a coach....Thomas was also an nba coach, didn't help him any when he went back to college....iu had tjd and they couldn't make the second weekend with Woodson....that's a crime....sure a winning record over painter but since you worship Shrewsbury and Painter is 5-0 against him, you're contradicting yourself...this iu team still doesn't have any shooting, poorly constructed....got anymore awesome opinions junior?....

Painter had NPOY and lost to a #16? What is more pathetic than that? What is your point? You say don’t compare Woodson vs Painter head to head but use Shrews vs Painter head to head to prove a point. I’m obviously dealing with a basketball simpleton with you.

So let’s give Matt an extension for going 5-0 vs Penn State. Does Wisconsin football celebrate going 5-0 vs Illinois football?

 

[Boiler Buck]

It’s guard play that needs to be fixed. It’s always guards with painter. Other than carsen/Ivey/Moore not a single other guard from painter in two decades has even made 3rd team all big ten. I touched on this in another thread that we need more talent aside from loyer and smith, and was called an iu troll and told my opinion stinks like an asshole.

True for sure ....but Lew Jack, Grant, Kramer, Octeus, Cline, T. Johnson, R. Smith, K. Barlow, R. Davis, PJT were all quality guards that any team would have been glad to have. So it's not like we have had scrubs there just because they were not 3rd team or above, like Carsen, Ivey & Moore were.

I think eventually with experience, Smith & Loyer might make 3rd team+. And I am happy with the speed and athleticism Jones adds.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Painter had NPOY and lost to a #16? What is more pathetic than that?

Uh… Getting boat raced by St. Mary’s in the first round ?

 

[Wolegib]

Purdue fans love their former guards from the past. But the facts are none of those point guards mentioned above brought Purdue a championship or a final four or played in the NBA . So in reality, how good were they? Would Marquette want any of those guards mentioned over Wade? Would any of those guards start for any of the Duke championship teams? Or would they just be role players off the bench?

Purdue fans love their former players. But I have to ask three questions : where are they now? And What did they do after they left Purdue? Did they take Purdue to a Final 4? And being honest, how many final 4 teams would they have actually started for?

Looking back, I just can’t see Lew Jack or Octavius, or IT or cline or Kramer or any of the rest starting for any team that made it to the final 4. They were all good players and purdue fans love them. But in reality they were not as good as the players on the championship teams.

 

[Thadoc1]

Painter had NPOY and lost to a #16? What is more pathetic than that? What is your point? You say don’t compare Woodson vs Painter head to head but use Shrews vs Painter head to head to prove a point. I’m obviously dealing with a basketball simpleton with you.

So let’s give Matt an extension for going 5-0 vs Penn State. Does Wisconsin football celebrate going 5-0 vs Illinois football?

Edey still made the second weekend bruh....and you're singing the praises of Shrewsbury but bashing painter for his record against Woodson....what's Shrewsbury's record against painter?....I love how you try to talk bball....

 

[Poprudy]

Uh… Getting boat raced by St. Mary’s in the first round ?

He seems to forget....most IU fans do.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Painter had NPOY and lost to a #16? What is more pathetic than that?

Yea good point. But in truth by years end team so worn down it was probably more pathetic that this team lost to lowly iu at Purdue. Hopefully, they are in better condition at years end in 24.

 

[johnboiler123]

True for sure ....but Lew Jack, Grant, Kramer, Octeus, Cline, T. Johnson, R. Smith, K. Barlow, R. Davis, PJT were all quality guards that any team would have been glad to have. So it's not like we have had scrubs there just because they were not 3rd team or above, like Carsen, Ivey & Moore were.

I think eventually with experience, Smith & Loyer might make 3rd team+. And I am happy with the speed and athleticism Jones adds.

I liked Davis, octeus, Jackson, and cline a lot. The the rest of the list is very “meh” imo.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I liked Davis, octeus, Jackson, and cline a lot. The the rest of the list is very “meh” imo.

Kramer ..... very Meh?
Ok. Guess I would disagree there, ALOT.

 

[pubill]

That’s the problem Bonefish. 1 E8 in 19 years. We talk about how UV got lucky to go to the F4. Painter got lucky to get pass SW16 by a bailout foul call that put Carson on line when the game was going to end. So we get that lucky break and proceed by a total choke job at the end of UV game. His substitution at the end cost us that ending rebound & F4. That is fully on Painter. The insanity will only continue each year until he receives his walking papers.

I would go root for IU

 

[pubill]

Some truth here BUT, this is exactly why other fan bases created the term… “PU Mentality”. Never going to be a top 15 program with that mentality. We had 20 years to take advantage of the Bob Knight firing. With Mike Woodson at IU, all that momentum will soon come to a halt UNLESS Bo picks up the phone and calls Shrews at ND.

Painter has owned Shrews, so you want him? We are a Top 15 program right now.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Purdue fans love their former guards from the past. But the facts are none of those point guards mentioned above brought Purdue a championship or a final four or played in the NBA . So in reality, how good were they? Would Marquette want any of those guards mentioned over Wade? Would any of those guards start for any of the Duke championship teams? Or would they just be role players off the bench?

Purdue fans love their former players. But I have to ask three questions : where are they now? And What did they do after they left Purdue? Did they take Purdue to a Final 4? And being honest, how many final 4 teams would they have actually started for?

Looking back, I just can’t see Lew Jack or Octavius, or IT or cline or Kramer or any of the rest starting for any team that made it to the final 4. They were all good players and purdue fans love them. But in reality they were not as good as the players on the championship teams.

Octavius II knew John the Baptist.

 

[johnboiler123]

Kramer ..... very Meh?
Ok. Guess I would disagree there, ALOT.

Kramer was a good defender but didn’t have any offense to his game. Wasn’t good at shooting, passing, dribbling, and no playmaking ability. Really not sure how he fits into todays game all that well. He benefited greatly from being teammates with jujuan, etwaun, and Robbie.

At the end of the day it’s though, it’s just my opinion. I’m sure people will disagree.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

I hope you are right. I feel like people are underestimating his coaching. His mentors are Bob Knight & Larry Brown, and their achievements speak for themselves.

How would you know who his mentors were?
Bobby Butthead was one of the most miserable human beings I've ever met. Not sure how that's an advantage.
Oh right, he won games...... forgot whats important to you loosiers.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Kramer was a good defender but didn’t have any offense to his game. Wasn’t good at shooting, passing, dribbling, and no playmaking ability. Really not sure how he fits into todays game all that well. He benefited greatly from being teammates with jujuan, etwaun, and Robbie.

At the end of the day it’s though, it’s just my opinion. I’m sure people will disagree.

well yeh, because you're dead wrong.

 

[johnboiler123]

well yeh, because you're dead wrong.

Solid rebuttal

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Some truth here BUT, this is exactly why other fan bases created the term… “PU Mentality”. Never going to be a top 15 program with that mentality. We had 20 years to take advantage of the Bob Knight firing. With Mike Woodson at IU, all that momentum will soon come to a halt UNLESS Bo picks up the phone and calls Shrews at ND.

I think you and fans like you are the PU Mentality YOU are talking about.

 

[gd4now]

It’s guard play that needs to be fixed. It’s always guards with painter. Other than carsen/Ivey/Moore not a single other guard from painter in two decades has even made 3rd team all big ten. I touched on this in another thread that we need more talent aside from loyer and smith, and was called an iu troll and told my opinion stinks like an asshole.

If you read my post correctly I said all opinions smell that way, not just yours. This would include mine as well as everyone else.

 

[cgnops]

Purdue fans love their former guards from the past. But the facts are none of those point guards mentioned above brought Purdue a championship or a final four or played in the NBA . So in reality, how good were they? Would Marquette want any of those guards mentioned over Wade? Would any of those guards start for any of the Duke championship teams? Or would they just be role players off the bench?

Purdue fans love their former players. But I have to ask three questions : where are they now? And What did they do after they left Purdue? Did they take Purdue to a Final 4? And being honest, how many final 4 teams would they have actually started for?

Looking back, I just can’t see Lew Jack or Octavius, or IT or cline or Kramer or any of the rest starting for any team that made it to the final 4. They were all good players and purdue fans love them. But in reality they were not as good as the players on the championship teams.

Are you seriously asking whom we would prefer over Dwayne Wade ? And as far as any of the guards we have had that you can’t imagine in the final four, can you name any of the guards from Loyola (Chicago) F4 run 2018 ? No one from that squad got drafted by an NBA team, just had a hell of a season (undefeated at home) and epic tourney run going through 3 seed Tennessee.

 

[bonefish1]

All of that’s great but recruiting comes down primarily to the coach. Singlet picked Duke because of K, not Duke and academics. You can have all of the advantages but the coach will always play the biggest role in a decision. Most colleges are similar outside of location. K’s NCAA success is why Duke attracts the top talent. The moment Duke’s success fades after K, the recruiting will fade too. Best players want to play for coaches who can either get them to league or has history winning in the dance. You can cherry pick outliers, but that is the norm. Painter has really no success in either. Grab shrews at ND, and we become more attractive and creates hope with a new head coach, and recruits believe that they have potential to have either NCAA success or get to the league playing at PU. That’s how you land top talent.

Totally correct. Recruits choose a school 90% based on the coach.

 

[bonefish1]

Iu always recruits well, that’s nothing new. As far as Woodson, he may be better than Archie or crean, but that’s not saying much and it’s still way too early to tell how successful he’ll be(or won’t be). This is now going to be a roster with mostly his players for the first time since he’s been there, and his team construction doesn’t appear to be that good into next season. Overall, definitely not a coach to be feared IMO. He has had painters number, but so has Howard and Howard sucks. Painter just struggles with athletic teams due to his recruiting style and lack of athleticism on his teams.

Isn’t the lack of athleticism on Painters teams Painters fault?

 

[bonefish1]

True for sure ....but Lew Jack, Grant, Kramer, Octeus, Cline, T. Johnson, R. Smith, K. Barlow, R. Davis, PJT were all quality guards that any team would have been glad to have. So it's not like we have had scrubs there just because they were not 3rd team or above, like Carsen, Ivey & Moore were.

I think eventually with experience, Smith & Loyer might make 3rd team+. And I am happy with the speed and athleticism Jones adds.

None of those guards sniffed the NBA. You like them because they played for Purdue but they were average at best. Other teams would love to have them…coming off the bench.

 

[Boiler Buck]

None of those guards sniffed the NBA. You like them because they played for Purdue but they were average at best. Other teams would love to have them…coming off the bench.

Well experienced Lew Jack, Cline & Kramer coming off the bench.....perhaps maybe, on very, very few elite teams. But for the majority of teams, guess I would disagree there.

 

[johnboiler123]

Isn’t the lack of athleticism on Painters teams Painters fault?

Absolutely. He doesn’t seem to value it as much as he should. He prefers the Sasha’s and Thompson’s of the world over more athletic guards.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Absolutely. He doesn’t seem to value it as much as he should. He prefers the Sasha’s and Thompson’s of the world over more athletic guards.

Agree with this. But those that do should see the value in newcomers Jones, Heide & Colvin. Although some think Smith isn't athletic, I guess his rebounding shows me he sure is. So that is 4 guys on next year's team. None of them freakishly athletic......but hopefully this team has enough athleticism to make a difference. Still I think 1 great guard away from a NC....but perhaps an E8 team, maybe with breaks the first Painter FF team??

 

[johnboiler123]

Agree with this. But those that do should see the value in newcomers Jones, Heide & Colvin. Although some think Smith isn't athletic, I guess his rebounding shows me he sure is. So that is 4 guys on next year's team. None of them freakishly athletic......but hopefully this team has enough athleticism to make a difference. Still I think 1 great guard away from a NC....but perhaps an E8 team, maybe with breaks the first Painter FF team??

I probably wouldn’t call smith unathletic, but for his size you typically want him to be elite at either jumping or running. Neither of which I would say he does at an elite level. That’s why I liked Lewis Jackson, he was small, but he was the quickest guard I’ve seen under painter by far, had pretty good hops, was super tough(constantly getting into it with bigger players), and he was really strong. He’s the exact type of guard that kills painter in march. We were a hair away from beating Kansas in the tournament with rob and Lewis.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I probably wouldn’t call smith unathletic, but for his size you typically want him to be elite at either jumping or running. Neither of which I would say he does at an elite level. That’s why I liked Lewis Jackson, he was small, but he was the quickest guard I’ve seen under painter by far, had pretty good hops, was super tough(constantly getting into it with bigger players), and he was really strong. He’s the exact type of guard that kills painter in march.

Yet Smith rebounding numbers better than Lew Jack? Could be wrong....LewJack very good there too.

Yea looked it up Smith 4.2 R is better than LJ 2.9. And Smith is playing with one of the best rebounders in Purdue history.

But yes, LJ might be the 2nd quickest guard in CMP tenure.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Yet Smith rebounding numbers better than Lew Jack? Could be wrong....LewJack very good there too.

Yea looked it up Smith 4.2 R is better than LJ 2.9. And Smith is playing with one of the best rebounders in Purdue history.

But yes, LJ might be the 2nd quickest guard in CMP tenure.

2nd quickest? He has to be the quickest.

Smith is a better overall at the same stage, however.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

I probably wouldn’t call smith unathletic, but for his size you typically want him to be elite at either jumping or running. Neither of which I would say he does at an elite level. That’s why I liked Lewis Jackson, he was small, but he was the quickest guard I’ve seen under painter by far, had pretty good hops, was super tough(constantly getting into it with bigger players), and he was really strong. He’s the exact type of guard that kills painter in march. We were a hair away from beating Kansas in the tournament with rob and Lewis.

Brandon dunks with ease at "maybe" 6'.
That's elite. LewJack (one of my all time favs) didn't dunk more than a couple of times during his career, but mostly because his foot problems.
He was never, ever 100% and played hurt ALL the time. One of the toughest kids ever.