Has ship sailed on TJD?
- Thread starter takedownboiler
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This times a million! For me, a season will be that much better when IU and PU are fighting for the top of the B1G and more (as long as the Hoosiers prevail
)This is easily evidenced by the entire 1970's and 1980's, and current in-state rivalries such as Duke/UNC, UK/UL (though that one's become a little tricky), UM/MSU, etc, etc, etc.
One thing to keep in mind is Jerry Meyer is based in Nashville and has the inside skinny on recruiting contacts there. While it is fun to poke fun at his well-earned reputation as a bandwagon CB guesser, at times he does have good intel. This is likely such a case. Corey Evans is a good recruiting guy, but is not the best prognosticator.
Like I said, a few weeks back the chances for IU to land Garland were modest. That's less so the case today. IU does lead, and that's from independent folks, not the Bloomington rah-rah brigades.
Also, don't get hung up on this "if-he-doesnt-commit-by-next-week-then-he must-not-want-to-go-there" line. Kids set their own timetables and schedule their time carefully with their family about making the biggest decision of their young lives. They don't do it to satisfy Rivals.com followers.
If Garland does go for IU, then it increases the already strong lean Langford has towards IU.
We don't have to like it, but disliking the idea doesn't make it untrue. Purdue will be fine and I hope this lights a fire under the program to attract more talent to WL.
LOL. Yea. That makes sense. The coaching staff is just sitting back waiting for a reason to go chase the best talent.
Even if IU gets both, they are still going to be a young team next year. Probably top10,but that is no guarantee of a national championship. Then both of them could be gone to the NBA. I think IU will be the next Kentucky 1and dones all the time.
In many respects, this should be one of Archie’s best classes. If he doesn’t sign Garland and Langford, it will not bode well for him. After all, he can tell recruits how great it is going to be without one lick of history at IU to contradict his glowing portrait of the future. Many first year coaches benefit from this phenomenon. IU is in need of better guards than those currently on the roster, IMHO. Phinny won’t be enough to get them back into contention in the next 2 years. They had better musing these two guys... they need someone to bring the ball to all those forwards.
If he wants to be the next Kentucky then he better do something with them because there's not going to be a top 10 recruit in his backyard every year. More important than team success is if/where they end up getting drafted and how quickly they can get there.
So can I say that any player associated with Purdue and has a Purdue offer is a lock and then say that UNTIL it is official and actually happens, things change? That sort of negates any sort of credibility you claim to have.
I agree. That's why I wrote "program", not staff. While Archie is a good recruiter himself, he has 3 very well-paid assistants that are very good recruiters with deep networks. Flint is a big reason Garland is looking at IU this closely.
There is a reason CMP made the Mizzu-gambit. Luckily we have an AD that gets it now. But Lutz is just one man. I think PU absolutely can pull in better players, but it takes time and commitment. Last Spring IU was a dumpster fire losing to GA Tech in the NIT opening round...in a game they weaseled their way out of hosting at home. PU had a NPOY runner up and a big 10 title to their credit. Which school seems to have some recruiting momentum for top-40 talent right now?
Can you say that? Sure.
I'm not Garland or Langford, and until they sign paper there is no such thing as a guarantee. That's not an attempt by me to be a weasel - that's my way of noting a simple reality. I didn't use the word "lock"; I said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that Garland to IU is no longer a secret and it's the truth, but that it has to procedurally happen for it to be "done." Romeo to IU is also quite likely.
Anyway, I probably shouldn't debate semantics anymore. You are by no means trying to troll me, and I'm not trying to do that either. So, I stated what I stated, and this weekend basketball starts!
It makes no sense to try to attribute IU problems last season to Archie's recruiting efforts for the 2018 class. He's got a clean slate at a name program with a fanbase full of sycophants who will hype his every move until he disappoints them. He most likely will never have it easier than he does right now. If he's ever going to get that level of players into his program, it's right now. Afterwards, kids are going to look at what he did with Garland and Langford (if he lands both/either) and determine what type of interest they have in playing for him.
As for Purdue, perhaps you missed all the shoe company stories in the past month. There are more reasons than just the coaching staff that some of these players have ended up elsewhere in the past.
Great post (other than calling the IU fanbase "sycophants.") Although regarding us "IUsycophants", I will say; after last year with Crean, it's easy for the IU fanbase to be instant fanboys of a coach who recruits, focuses on defense, and doesn't appear to promise checks that his team can't cash.
My point about IU was that it takes good assistant connections to even have a chance at such kids. Even the best coaches take at least a cycle or two to start landing the better players. Matta, Donovan and most others didn't just come out swinging from day 1. I don't think Archie just showed up at the recruit camps waving IU's 5 banners and kids just lined up. It took contacts to get where they are.
And my point on PU is not based on a hope that we are going to get a lot of 5-star recruits. If you look at the FBI investigation, it's centered on kids in the top 20. My hope for PU is that we can do better with the 40-80 kids. Now if it turns out that they later find that there is huge portion of the kids in the 40-80 range are on the take, I'll gladly retract that concern. But I do think we should be doing better with that portion of the recruiting base and I don' think it's going to take grey-area tactics to do it.
Fair enough...just wanted to try and clarify a bit since you sounded a bit as if you were trying to simply say those guys were a lock AND then giving yourself a way out. Personally I don't share my information about a recruit unless I can truly back up the claims (which I think has been justified on here a few times) and I am 100% certain of something. Just irks me a ton when someone comes around (both Purdue fans here and other fans) spouting off about how recruits are a lock and then either are shown other wise or give themselves an out later on. I have seen your posts and given that you are an IU fan and that you haven't been shouted down by the posters that I feel truly are quality...I can accept your explanation as being truthful.Can you say that? Sure.
I'm not Garland or Langford, and until they sign paper there is no such thing as a guarantee. That's not an attempt by me to be a weasel - that's my way of noting a simple reality. I didn't use the word "lock"; I said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that Garland to IU is no longer a secret and it's the truth, but that it has to procedurally happen for it to be "done." Romeo to IU is also quite likely.
Anyway, I probably shouldn't debate semantics anymore. You are by no means trying to troll me, and I'm not trying to do that either. So, I stated what I stated, and this weekend basketball starts!
Enjoy your commentary here and it is a welcome addition...even if you are are from Bloomington (we'll try not to hold that against you too much...I guess)
Likewise! My interactions on this board have been wholly civil and interesting. (and educational - this thread has featured both "pedantic" and "sycophant") Even Twin has stopped the speculative IU bashing to a certain extent!
As I ruminate on how this can be happening, I think I'd like to thank that 1973 guy for making all other rival program posters look like an Einstein/Gandhi combo in comparison to him.
I like that you used the word deal. Archie taking tips from big brother and buying players? Landing two top ten players at a dumpster fire of a progress should set off many alarm bells. Don't bother giving the history lesson, because the recruits were around -13 years old when it last happened.
I will say that Louisville, being an Adidas school, dropping out of the running as the front runner and then another Adidas school moving in right behind also raises alarm bells for Romeo. It would be nice if the FBI picked up the pace a bit here, but even with conclusive evidence I hope they don't pull their punches when "big dogs" are in play.
Garland would be picking IU, an absolute dumpster fire, over many top programs. Again, outside of providing monetary compensation, this would strange.
IU looks to build a youth movement. They would benefit greatly from Garland and Romeo. They will need a big man and one that can play immediately. Otherwise, they would be wasting Garland and Romeo who likely only provide a year stay. Jackson-Davis should be good, but he will be raw the first year.
I am very happy with Purdue's class. I think if Purdue lands Tyger, they will be in perfect position to make a deep run and land future top recruits. Adding a player like KBJ at a position of need, would make Purdue a title contender. Landing Tyger would lock down the guard position and Williams, Dow, and Haarms are very talented big men. Wheeler and Eastern have the ability to log in minutes as the 3. One or two pieces is all Purdue is missing.
IU is going to be a dumpster fire next year. They may not even make the NIT. If Purdue continues to improve and finds a way to make a deep run, on top of landing Tyger, Purdue will become a very inticing landing spot. I don't see why they should be ruled out already when the '17 season hasn't even officially started. If there is money involved, Purdue will lose the battle. I just hope the FBI sheds some like and prevents the powerhouses from cheating their way to the top.
Didn't take long for all the "IU got a 5 star, so they must be cheating" posts to start -- even before they landed them. Do better.
It took longer than the "IU is being speculated as the potential destination for a couple of 5 star recruits so lets plan the national championship parade on the Purdue board" posts to start. If you're looking for us to fall over in amazement, do better. We've seen many 5 star types go through your program and it hasn't recently resulted in any Final Fours.
IU is an Adidas school. Several Adidas schools just got busted for cheating. Not to mention the ties with Kenny Johnson, who went down with Louisville in their buying of players. That is the old regime, but there are ties with Archie and his brother and Arizona paid players. The school in the lead for Romeo was Louisville that just fired their coach for having players paid to join the team. Now that they are caught, Romeo appears to be IU lean, also an Adidas school. IU was awful last year and will likely be awful this year, yet somehow they are in th mix for two top 10 players. I am all for coincidences, but where there is smok he heir is usually fire. With the recent scandal, the dots aren't hard to connect.
Unrelated, but the man who made IU relevant and brought banners won't even step foot on campus. Sorry, I am not buying that history is enough to overcome the current state of things. Not to mention, Archie is well thought of, but he isn't elite, not yet anyway. He isn't cleared from the Arizona mess yet either.
You realize 4 of 5 school listed by the FBI are Nike schools. Also Branch won 2 ships before Knight arrived. IU was awful in 2014-15, won the big in 2015-16 (still not great) and 2016-17 beat the KU team that beat PU by 30+ and beat the champions in UNC (yet, I agree very bad). Not to mention, 5 of the 8 IU players in the NBA (tied for 1st with MSU in B10) played during those 3 years. If you believe last year's IU team under Crean will be the same team this year, you obviously don't understand high level college hoops. IU was a turnover machine & would not defend anyone. As RMK would say, every year is a new team. In my opinion, iu will finish between 3-8 in the league this year (more than likely btwn 4-7). Every IU fan is alright with those expectations too. Miller will need 2 years just to clean up the mess that Crean called a roster.
In regards to not understanding why top level recruits are interested in IU... ask the kid in a PU shirt and hat who (sat next to my friend. yes, my buddy was confused to why he came) joined the 12k+ at Hoosier Hysteria. He complained to my friend most of the evening about PU not being able to host that kind of event.
Only one way to find out. The players looked awful at the hysteria. It wasn't an impressive event. Try coming to Mackey when the lights cut out and the light show begins. That is impressive and not to mention loud. IU may beat a team or two they shouldn't, but they should be awful this year. IU will likely be in the bottom half battling for a NIT bid.
I have friends that are IU fans and they are very worried about getting caught paying for players. They also acknowledged how unimpressive this year was at HH.
It will take two years to fix the mess. Landing two top 10 kids will help for sure. It will be interesting to see how they would all mesh. This is pivotal because IU fans are impatient and there will be a short leash. It will also be interesting to see what the FBI digs up in the future.
I highly advise you not to read anything into that scrimmage considering 2 of our SR starters did not play (Hartman & Newkirk) and the fact it's a scrimmage. IU fans complain every year after HH. It sounds silly but true. 6 returning SRs in another avg B10 (sans MSU) will keep them in middle of the pack. I'm more worried about a team learning a new system vs the current roster. IU lost 7 games in the BIG by 2 possessions. That was all on Crean and coaching. Take care of the ball and get 2-3 more stops on D was the difference. He had 2 guys on a NBA roster today and another guy who is in the G league... yet, he could not get them to play as a team and defend. We all watched what AM did at Dayton. He booted 2 of his best players off his E8 team and lost 2 more to injuries and still won his conference and made the dance. Archie comes from a coaching family and he's not going to be the media machine which was Crean. Yes, AM has to win to prove himself. If you know anything about his history of coaching, there is only optimism. Plenty of high level players avoid iu in the past 2 years cause they did not want to play for Crean. IU recruits itself, just like AM said during B10 media days. He said he just needs to make sure the recruits trust him and his staff, something Crean lost in his last 2 years.
The impatient debate is silly. IU gave Crean 9 years. 3 more than he deserved. Also IU was top 10 in attendance during his first 3 years when we lost 15+ games each year. I think that's being patient watching 3 straight lossing seasons for the first time since the 60s. I think that's pretty impressive fan support.
By the way, I've been to Mackey several times. Yes, it can get loud and reminds me of some HS gyms in the state.
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Seriously, are you an IU fan or a Purdue fan? If you're an IU fan, why would you come over to this board and brag about nothing?
I've seen you on theHoosier board. What am I bragging about? I simply answered questions to his posts. Sorry if you don't like facts. Why are you so sensitive?
Why am I on here? I have PU friends and we text and talk about stuff on IU & PU boards. I wanted to see what was up with the TJD discussion and replied to a post. Are you ok with that?
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You literally just proved my point that the IU fan base is impatient. In that three years more than he deserved, Crean won the Big Ten outright. The fan base turned on him the moment Yogi left. He also was part of the above mentioned stat of active players in the NBA. You would swear talking to an IU fan he never won a game.
Three losing seasons happened because IU hired a known cheater that got caught and had them put on probation. Just another feather in the IU is dirty cap. I will say this though, BK wasn't a cheater and focused on graduating all of his kids. Recruiting wasn't what it is now with handlers and AAU coaches to deal with. He wouldn't have been able to have the same success in this day and age.
And he missed the dance 2 of the last 4 years. That might be acceptable at PU, not at IU. IU had better attendance in 2008 thru 2010 than PU avgs. You are slinging mud while forgetting about PU attendance in 2012 when you finished last. What's PU's excuse? IU fans saw Crean waste the best team in the country in 2012-13 and followed up by missing the dance. Even my PU friends saw through Crean and knew he how had to go. Lol
If you want to talk about cheating, just look in the mirror. IU fired their coach, while Keady let his assistant take the fall. Lol
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I never said that nor would I ever say Cal cheats. He's at UK, 24 nba players and what 6 or 8 F4s. Why does he need to cheat? He has everything to recruit any kid.
Why do I care about Shawn? Nice pivot though. Do you think Baylor fans care about Vandy? Do you think the Drew brothers act a like? No
Painter is clean and has nothing to Dow rob Keady who hasn't coached for Purdue since 2004.
Painter had a stretch of years after the Baby Boilers where he had bad luck with recruits. Ronnie Johnson, Bryson Scott, and Simpson were two unfortunate circumstances. The transfers and medical release really set Purdue back. Purdue also had players that just didn't live up to their hype. Painter was going trough off the court issues and Zo, his best recruitor, left for a head coaching job. It was a perfect storm that Purdue fans rode out.
Now Purdue has one of the longest active streaks of being ranked. They have also been to the tournament the last 3 years. They won't the Big Ten outright last year by two games and are the favorite. When Purdue went through the stretch of being awful, they stuck with Painter.
IU was awful because they focused on rankings and not putting together a team. A lot of ball hogs that were athletic. Who would have thought that potentially paid players would be so selfish and not buy in?! When they had a good shooting night they could be anybody, but on a bad night they could lose to IPFW. Crean lost his senior leadership in Hartman and had selfish players just trying to get in the league. Even Archie couldn't have won with that squad. More than likely, he is going to struggle with it this year as well. The difference with Purdue is we road it out and now we are benefiting. A good group of young men and a lot of potential moving forward. If Archie stumbles there will be a whole line of IU fans ready to kick him out the door. Unrealistic expectations.
I have no idea who cheated at UMASS & MEMPHIS. Do you? None where fired or sanctioned by the NCAA. Correct? So no one knows.
S Miller has not been fired or found guilty... Yet. The issue goes to 2014 to present, AM was there in 2011. Again, nice assumption. We could do the same as Creighton has been mentioned with the guy where Lutz was the lead recruiter. Have I said Lutz is guilty or associated with it? No. No one can prove anything until it's known.
Back to your original question... No, I don't think Cal is cheating today.
No sanctions? They negated the whole season. Their Final Four was taken away from them. Coach Cal and 3 assistant coaches with 2 being on the IU staff. Just saying it's east to point fingers when you could look in the mirror.
I agree with some of that. I'll be nice and not debate this further as the stats that I have will make others think I'm bragging when I am just presenting facts. I will say this, IU will be just fine. I'm not worried nor are my IU peeps. I think PU has a shot to be in 2-5 range. I have no idea how PU will be the following year as I need to see your freshman vs solid P5 teams. I watched the world games but could not take much from it. It was a glorified scrimmage.
Unrealistic expectations... Your funny. Go look at IU's hoops budget vs PUs. (You may not cause it's not close even when PU's has a season like last year) IU's recruiting budget in hoops was larger than PU's FB & BB combined. When you pay a coach roughly $4 million a year, you expect something in return. We were only valued in top 3 most valuable ball programs per Forbes this past year & ranked in top 1-7 every year for the past decade. Expectations come with big boy hoops. I get it, your a PU fan so I won't expect you to understand.
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