We are already at the B1G mandated minimum number of varsity sports, I believe.they essentially are today
if purdue was permitted to cut womens soccer,
brohm/football and painter/basketball could keep more of their money
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We are already at the B1G mandated minimum number of varsity sports, I believe.they essentially are today
if purdue was permitted to cut womens soccer,
brohm/football and painter/basketball could keep more of their money
this is the stupid argument that got us to this point. even after adding up the scholarships, and other perks, they were grossly underpaid. the student athletes were an integral part of producing a marketable product that brought in tens of millions. Everyone involved in the production of that product except the student athlete is paid at market rates. and yes their market value is much higher than the paltry scholarship.“Making a sacrifice” JFC. They are playing a game. It’s a student athlete. You’re eduction is completely paid for, if you go to a power 5 program you have access to world class facilities and opportunities few get. I
correctWe are already at the B1G mandated minimum number of varsity sports, I believe.
I’m not arguing against the athletes getting paid something, but with the current Title IX and B1G mandates, there isn’t some magical pot of money sitting behind the door.this is the stupid argument that got us to this point. even after adding up the scholarships, and other perks, they were grossly underpaid. the student athletes were an integral part of producing a marketable product that brought in tens of millions. Everyone involved in the production of that product except the student athlete is paid at market rates. and yes their market value is much higher than the paltry scholarship.
like i used to argue, if scholarships are so valuable, and amateurism is so important, why don't we pay coaches in scholarships too then.
That wasn’t your point. You said they were martyrs not getting any compensation. And for the select few that can actually earn more there’s an easy solution - go prothis is the stupid argument that got us to this point. even after adding up the scholarships, and other perks, they were grossly underpaid. the student athletes were an integral part of producing a marketable product that brought in tens of millions. Everyone involved in the production of that product except the student athlete is paid at market rates. and yes their market value is much higher than the paltry scholarship.
like i used to argue, if scholarships are so valuable, and amateurism is so important, why don't we pay coaches in scholarships too then.
if folks like you were open to seeing the problem, perhaps we might have addressed the unfairness in a more orderly manner rather than leaving it to the vagaries of the free-market. Me, I like this new regime a lot. seeing students getting indirectly paid via NIL. And seeing like some of have been arguing forever that they were underpaid, and being proven right. it sure feels good.
right now, you are asking revenue student athletes to take a hair cut (they are the only ones being paid below market rates), so that we can retain other sports. that's why I keep asking, why are they the only that have to make a sacrifice. why not everyone else whose getting paid from college sports. I still don't have a good answer for this. I don't know how this will all play out. Title IX is going to collide with free-market, and it will have to be resolved legally is my guess.I’m not arguing against the athletes getting paid something, but with the current Title IX and B1G mandates, there isn’t some magical pot of money sitting behind the door.
I agree. sadly. that it may go that way that it kills college sports and interest in it. It's why I wished NCAA would have gotten ahead of this a long time ago and found some questionably legal but still workable solution. Even pro-sports are not fully free-market. Stadiums are often subsidized with public funds. They have a CBA and drafts and salary caps that mostly protect employers from competing against each other for employees. But overall, all sides (employers, employees, fans) are happy with it.And turning the student athletes into highly paid 1 year rent a players, will make the product much less valuable, and that revenue will erode over time. I will be canceling my sports TV package and stop buying tickets if things continue in this direction, and I’m not the only one who will be doing that.
they shouldn't have to go pro to be adequeately compensated for their role in producing the product that people pay for. Tell coaches that too then. Tell them to take schollies as payments or go pro to get paid.That wasn’t your point. You said they were martyrs not getting any compensation. And for the select few that can actually earn more there’s an easy solution - go pro
Let me help you with your argument. Brohm and Painter aren’t paying for womens lacrosse.right now, you are asking revenue student athletes to take a hair cut (they are the only ones being paid below market rates), so that we can retain other sports. that's why I keep asking, why are they the only that have to make a sacrifice. why not everyone else whose getting paid from college sports. I still don't have a good answer for this. I don't know how this will all play out. Title IX is going to collide with free-market, and it will have to be resolved legally is my guess.
I agree. sadly. that it may go that way that it kills college sports and interest in it. It's why I wished NCAA would have gotten ahead of this a long time ago and found some questionably legal but still workable solution. Even pro-sports are not fully free-market. Stadiums are often subsidized with public funds. They have a CBA and drafts and salary caps that mostly protect employers from competing against each other for employees. But overall, all sides (employers, employees, fans) are happy with it.
I am perfectly fine with that solution if "amateurism" is truly what's most important to fans. let's fully make it amatuerism. Heck why get a 500k coach. Just get one of the engineering professors to volunteer as coach in the evenings. now we have amateurs at all levels. But the "free market for thee, amateurism for me" model is just grossly exploitative especially when there is actual money being made.Let me help you with your argument. Brohm and Painter aren’t paying for womens lacrosse.
If you want that money to pay for football and mens BB players, you would fire Brohm and Painter, and replace them with D2 coaches and pay them $500 K a year each, with assistants making $150 K a year. Then funnel that $9-$10 million a year thru an intermediary to the players.
But that’s just it: the money will go away when this turns into minor league football and basketball.I am perfectly fine with that solution if "amateurism" is truly what's most important to fans. let's fully make it amatuerism. Heck why get a 500k coach. Just get one of the engineering professors to volunteer as coach in the evenings. now we have amateurs at all levels. But the "free market for thee, amateurism for me" model is just grossly exploitative especially when there is actual money being made.
You mean like the more than $200,000 scholarship available to him...the meals (and stipend)...the use of athletic facilities/trainers/support staff...the travel opportunities...the gear, etc.then that's our fault if we don't get him. I won't blame the young man for going wherever he is compensated in whatever manner is meaningful to him for his marketable basketball skills
THAT is what I see becoming more common...maybe not so much at/for/with Purdue, but definitely in general.Even worse he could come in to Purdue, have a great freshman year and parlay that into what Tyrese Hunter is doing
Thats fine. Make it amateur all around. Amateur for coaches, amateur for AD offices.You mean like the more than $200,000 scholarship available to him...the meals (and stipend)...the use of athletic facilities/trainers/support staff...the travel opportunities...the gear, etc.
This is AMATEUR athletics (or, is supposed to be)...if they want to be paid for their marketable basketball skills, play professionally.
Only making the point that not only are the players being compensated for their ability, but, that they are hardly suffering either.Thats fine. Make it amateur all around. Amateur for coaches, amateur for AD offices.
except the issue is they are grossly under-compensated relative to their market rate. like grossly. so much so that schools kept finding creating ways to pay them in perks (some of which you mention)Only making the point that not only are the players being compensated for their ability, but, that they are hardly suffering either.
I wonder if all of the people across the country who are trying to pay off student loans would agree that the players are being exploited.I am perfectly fine with that solution if "amateurism" is truly what's most important to fans. let's fully make it amatuerism. Heck why get a 500k coach. Just get one of the engineering professors to volunteer as coach in the evenings. now we have amateurs at all levels. But the "free market for thee, amateurism for me" model is just grossly exploitative especially when there is actual money being made.
how are people upvoting this silly argument how many of those people have rare and marketable skillsI wonder if all of the people across the country who are trying to pay off student loans would agree that the players are being exploited.
the only thing stopping student athletes from having leverage is the unreasonable amateurism rules. remove those, and watch what those student athletes in revenue sports are really worth. we are starting to see. its far more than your paltry scholarships.Because the “person earning millions” has the leverage - they can go somewhere else and make the same money without having to bankroll the woman’s field hockey team.
There are some with incredible intelligence.how are people upvoting this silly argument how many of those people have rare and marketable skills
But, they are not...Khristian Lander's "market rate" is next to nothing and he was on a full-ride scholarship with all of the other perks associated with such. In his case, a case could actually be made that he was grossly over-compensated in that he provided nothing from a basketball standpoint as a return on the hundreds of thousands of dollars he had availed to him to play basketball.except the issue is they are grossly under-compensated relative to their market rate. like grossly. so much so that schools kept finding creating ways to pay them in perks (some of which you mention)
You keep going back to this argument, but it's so off base. People paying them under the table in years past doesn't equate to them being paid below market value. It just means there are a few people that will throw dumb amounts of money around to try to get their team to win.except the issue is they are grossly under-compensated relative to their market rate. like grossly. so much so that schools kept finding creating ways to pay them in perks (some of which you mention)
What "rare and marketable skill" does someone like Damezi Anderson truly have? He is about to be on to a 3rd school...all for free...with multiple perks...and, has yet to do anything more on the basketball floor than the average walk-on has done or contributed.how are people upvoting this silly argument how many of those people have rare and marketable skills
If not for the transfer portal and NIL, Nijel Pack would be at K-State...with no difference in his perceived market value. If Nijel Pack was the 20th-rated player in the transfer portal, he would be playing at Purdue likely, and, his "market value" would be what it was when he played at K-State. This has nothing at all to do with the actual market value of Nijel Pack himself or specifically...it is a gimmick...it is a blatant cash-to-play matter...it was cheating previously, and, now is not...but, it is the exact same thing.the only thing stopping student athletes from having leverage is the unreasonable amateurism rules. remove those, and watch what those student athletes in revenue sports are really worth. we are starting to see. its far more than your paltry scholarships.
Great point. And there are waaay more Landers, Donnie Hales, Jacob Lawsons, Grant Weatherfords, John Harts, Peter Jurkins, Jacquil Taylors, etc etc etc than Nijel Packs. The NCAA is passing rules to benefit the tiny minority and destroy the system for everyone else in the process, and then idiots that don't understand basic economics call it a free market.But, they are not...Khristian Lander's "market rate" is next to nothing and he was on a full-ride scholarship with all of the other perks associated with such. In his case, a case could actually be made that he was grossly over-compensated in that he provided nothing from a basketball standpoint as a return on the hundreds of thousands of dollars he had availed to him to play basketball.
Amen...and, there is nothing wrong with college athletics having those guys and so many like them...in fact, it is great...it is why it is COLLEGE (and amateur) athletics. Nijel Pack has the chance to make the money that he is right now BECAUSE of college basketball, and, absent it, he would likely not be making what he is making to play at Miami, and, he would absolutely not be making it playing professionally.Great point. And there are waaay more Landers, Donnie Hales, Jacob Lawsons, Grant Weatherfords, John Harts, Peter Jurkins, Jacquil Taylors, etc etc etc than Nijel Packs. The NCAA is passing rules to benefit the tiny minority and destroy the system for everyone else in the process, and then idiots that don't understand basic economics call it a free market.
Amen...and, there is nothing wrong with college athletics having those guys and so many like them...in fact, it is great...it is why it is COLLEGE (and amateur) athletics. Nijel Pack has the chance to make the money that he is right now BECAUSE of college basketball, and, absent it, he would likely not be making what he is making to play at Miami, and, he would absolutely not be making it playing professionally.
Sure, the elite of the elite will benefit and a case could possibly be made that they have more "market value", but, it is a stretch and entirely different from what is going on and is going to happen.
Never mind the fact that those guys were already being paid in many, many cases...so, they were still getting their market value, or, a significant piece of it.
Although I disagree with the notion that the college players need to get paid because coaches, ADs, schools etc make too much I will say I agree that the system is broken.
There should be some sort of cap on salary in amateur sports. I could even wrap my heads around profit sharing for players on teams who make deep runs in March or win CFB playoff. But this NIL thing is ruining college. Pretty soon there was be any more March madness, we won’t have college sports at all. We will have things like “the athletic company of Ohio state” where they just pay the school for the name but the players don’t go to school, they are students in any sense, they are just a minor league feeder. And if you’re okay with that happening and crumbling then that’s pretty sad becuase I enjoy March Madness and other college events and on this trajectory it will be obsolete soon.
and for the NCAA to act like they are helpless is a joke. They shit the bed and ****ed this whole thing up. All it would have taken was so for sight to be proactive and make steps to prevent this from happening. But cat is out of the bag and it’s never going to go back to the way it was.
Kill meofficially, I think it's:
THEEE athletic company of Ohio State.....
I doubt things go that far, unless the schools basically mutiny the NCAA. It'd take a Super League level split for the NCAA to go underAlthough I disagree with the notion that the college players need to get paid because coaches, ADs, schools etc make too much I will say I agree that the system is broken.
There should be some sort of cap on salary in amateur sports. I could even wrap my heads around profit sharing for players on teams who make deep runs in March or win CFB playoff. But this NIL thing is ruining college. Pretty soon there was be any more March madness, we won’t have college sports at all. We will have things like “the athletic company of Ohio state” where they just pay the school for the name but the players don’t go to school, they are students in any sense, they are just a minor league feeder. And if you’re okay with that happening and crumbling then that’s pretty sad becuase I enjoy March Madness and other college events and on this trajectory it will be obsolete soon.
and for the NCAA to act like they are helpless is a joke. They shit the bed and ****ed this whole thing up. All it would have taken was so for sight to be proactive and make steps to prevent this from happening. But cat is out of the bag and it’s never going to go back to the way it was.
Not to be overly pessimistic but I think that’s coming. No sure how long it will take. But on this trajectory it’s a matter of timeI doubt things go that far, unless the schools basically mutiny the NCAA. It'd take a Super League level split for the NCAA to go under
also true. that unfortunately is the free market. Coach painter is worth 2million, and we found that that Coach Hazell as a B1G football coach is worth 0. That's life. it's a buyer beware market. That's how every labor market works. you negotiate comensation based on the valuation of both sides, and hopefully, you leave yourself an out, if one side ends up not being able to produce up to expectations. If you end up being wrong about your valuation like IU on lander, tough luck. I am fine with that as long as we are not using amateurism to keep down compensation for those worth it.But, they are not...Khristian Lander's "market rate" is next to nothing and he was on a full-ride scholarship with all of the other perks associated with such. In his case, a case could actually be made that he was grossly over-compensated in that he provided nothing from a basketball standpoint as a return on the hundreds of thousands of dollars he had availed to him to play basketball.
um this may be news to you. In many revenue sports, that's effectively what we have right now.Pretty soon there was be any more March madness, we won’t have college sports at all. We will have things like “the athletic company of Ohio state” where they just pay the school for the name but the players don’t go to school, they are students in any sense, they are just a minor league feeder.
and for the NCAA to act like they are helpless is a joke. They shit the bed and ****ed this whole thing up. All it would have taken was so for sight to be proactive and make steps to prevent this from happening. But cat is out of the bag and it’s never going to go back to the way it was.
Meh, I think these NIL deals are just a massive overreaction because it's a complete 180 from how it was. I think there will be restrictions actually enforced once there's enough pressure from either lawmakers or the majority of schoolsNot to be overly pessimistic but I think that’s coming. No sure how long it will take. But on this trajectory it’s a matter of time
The absurdity of your argument is that you answered your own question. he has a rare and marketable enough skill that not 1, not 2 but 3 schools decided to take a chance and pay him in full-ride scholarships. given that not every student is getting such offers from school after school. I will say his skillsets from the perspective of those paying are indeed rare and marketable. Noone is forcing the schools to offer him scholarshipsWhat "rare and marketable skill" does someone like Damezi Anderson truly have? He is about to be on to a 3rd school...all for free...with multiple perks...and, has yet to do anything more on the basketball floor than the average walk-on has done or contributed.
What happened to Nate Minnoy after he left Purdue? Kory Spates?
What was Patrick Badey's "rare and marketable skillset" that allowed him to get a free education and multiple other perks at Purdue?
yeah duh. if you restrict a person's ability to participate in a free market, then the person will have no free market value. are your points always this stupid?If not for the transfer portal and NIL, Nijel Pack would be at K-State...with no difference in his perceived market value.
No, the absurdity is the idea that he does...as he has proven multiple times that he does not, and, he will prove it yet again. He is not even performing at a level to deserve the value of the scholarship, never mind some notion that he should be paid more in some form or fashion.The absurdity of your argument is that you answered your own question. he has a rare and marketable enough skill that not 1, not 2 but 3 schools decided to take a chance and pay him in full-ride scholarships. given that not every student is getting such offers from school after school. I will say his skillsets from the perspective of those paying are indeed rare and marketable. Noone is forcing the schools to offer him scholarships
Wait, the restriction was "we will pay for your education and dozens of other perks" if you participate in a sport while you are here? Wow...how horrible.yeah duh. if you restrict a person's ability to participate in a free market, then the person will have no free market value. are your points always this stupid?
no no no. you are the one making arguments that make no economic sense. Do you hear of anyone paying NBA players under the table? or people playing soccer players under the table? Or paying engineers under the table?No. because they can command their market rate legally. trust me if you impose stupid restrictions that lets you pay below market rates in salaries in any of those other industries, under the table payments & perks will happen. A practical historical example of this is how health insurance came to be tied with employment in the US. Due to WWII labor shortage, employers were not allowed to legally pay employees at market rates, so they started offering health insurance and other benefits instead.You keep going back to this argument, but it's so off base. People paying them under the table in years past doesn't equate to them being paid below market value. It just means there are a few people that will throw dumb amounts of money around to try to get their team to win.
Coach Painter is not a student...he is a professional. He is a paid employee. College athletes are neither professionals or paid employees.also true. that unfortunately is the free market. Coach painter is worth 2million, and we found that that Coach Hazell as a B1G football coach is worth 0. That's life. it's a buyer beware market. That's how every labor market works. you negotiate comensation based on the valuation of both sides, and hopefully, you leave yourself an out, if one side ends up not being able to produce up to expectations. If you end up being wrong about your valuation like IU on lander, tough luck. I am fine with that as long as we are not using amateurism to keep down compensation for those worth it.