We are already at the B1G mandated minimum number of varsity sports, I believe.
DGL n NIL
- Thread starter amhutchison91
- Start date
this is the stupid argument that got us to this point. even after adding up the scholarships, and other perks, they were grossly underpaid. the student athletes were an integral part of producing a marketable product that brought in tens of millions. Everyone involved in the production of that product except the student athlete is paid at market rates. and yes their market value is much higher than the paltry scholarship.
like i used to argue, if scholarships are so valuable, and amateurism is so important, why don't we pay coaches in scholarships too then.
if folks like you were open to seeing the problem, perhaps we might have addressed the unfairness in a more orderly manner rather than leaving it to the vagaries of the free-market. Me, I like this new regime a lot. seeing students getting indirectly paid via NIL. And seeing like some of have been arguing forever that they were underpaid, and being proven right. it sure feels good.
I’m not arguing against the athletes getting paid something, but with the current Title IX and B1G mandates, there isn’t some magical pot of money sitting behind the door.
And turning the student athletes into highly paid 1 year rent a players, will make the product much less valuable, and that revenue will erode over time. I will be canceling my sports TV package and stop buying tickets if things continue in this direction, and I’m not the only one who will be doing that.
That wasn’t your point. You said they were martyrs not getting any compensation. And for the select few that can actually earn more there’s an easy solution - go pro
right now, you are asking revenue student athletes to take a hair cut (they are the only ones being paid below market rates), so that we can retain other sports. that's why I keep asking, why are they the only that have to make a sacrifice. why not everyone else whose getting paid from college sports. I still don't have a good answer for this. I don't know how this will all play out. Title IX is going to collide with free-market, and it will have to be resolved legally is my guess.
I agree. sadly. that it may go that way that it kills college sports and interest in it. It's why I wished NCAA would have gotten ahead of this a long time ago and found some questionably legal but still workable solution. Even pro-sports are not fully free-market. Stadiums are often subsidized with public funds. They have a CBA and drafts and salary caps that mostly protect employers from competing against each other for employees. But overall, all sides (employers, employees, fans) are happy with it.
they shouldn't have to go pro to be adequeately compensated for their role in producing the product that people pay for. Tell coaches that too then. Tell them to take schollies as payments or go pro to get paid.
Let me help you with your argument. Brohm and Painter aren’t paying for womens lacrosse.
If you want that money to pay for football and mens BB players, you would fire Brohm and Painter, and replace them with D2 coaches and pay them $500 K a year each, with assistants making $150 K a year. Then funnel that $9-$10 million a year thru an intermediary to the players.
I am perfectly fine with that solution if "amateurism" is truly what's most important to fans. let's fully make it amatuerism. Heck why get a 500k coach. Just get one of the engineering professors to volunteer as coach in the evenings. now we have amateurs at all levels. But the "free market for thee, amateurism for me" model is just grossly exploitative especially when there is actual money being made.
But that’s just it: the money will go away when this turns into minor league football and basketball.
You mean like the more than $200,000 scholarship available to him...the meals (and stipend)...the use of athletic facilities/trainers/support staff...the travel opportunities...the gear, etc.
This is AMATEUR athletics (or, is supposed to be)...if they want to be paid for their marketable basketball skills, play professionally.
THAT is what I see becoming more common...maybe not so much at/for/with Purdue, but definitely in general.
Already said it...if Ivey were a year later (i.e., a Freshman this past year opposed to Sophomore), he absolutely would have been hearing from schools and receiving offers.
I can even see it getting to a point where a kid who does not have a big NIL option coming out, goes somewhere where he can shine, and, parlays that then into NIL for his next destination.
Thats fine. Make it amateur all around. Amateur for coaches, amateur for AD offices.
Only making the point that not only are the players being compensated for their ability, but, that they are hardly suffering either.
This is not about them not getting paid as much as a pure money grab.
If these guys wanted to genuinely see their market value, let them play in a G-League...many will find out VERY quickly that their actual market value is not only not what they believe it to be, but, that whole "scholarship thing" might actually hold the value that it should.
This has nothing at all to do with guys being able to make some money for their roles as players...this is what it always has been...only it was considered cheating in the past, and, now it is not.
except the issue is they are grossly under-compensated relative to their market rate. like grossly. so much so that schools kept finding creating ways to pay them in perks (some of which you mention)
I wonder if all of the people across the country who are trying to pay off student loans would agree that the players are being exploited.
how are people upvoting this silly argument how many of those people have rare and marketable skills
the only thing stopping student athletes from having leverage is the unreasonable amateurism rules. remove those, and watch what those student athletes in revenue sports are really worth. we are starting to see. its far more than your paltry scholarships.
But, they are not...Khristian Lander's "market rate" is next to nothing and he was on a full-ride scholarship with all of the other perks associated with such. In his case, a case could actually be made that he was grossly over-compensated in that he provided nothing from a basketball standpoint as a return on the hundreds of thousands of dollars he had availed to him to play basketball.
You keep going back to this argument, but it's so off base. People paying them under the table in years past doesn't equate to them being paid below market value. It just means there are a few people that will throw dumb amounts of money around to try to get their team to win.
They aren't under-compensated compared to market value at all. How do I know this? Look at the salaries for international and g league players. These guys are better than the top 5% of D1 talent, but aren't at the freak level of the NBA. Nijel Pack WOULD NOT make 400k a year in that system based off of his talent. He's now being way overcompensated to stay at Miami.
Where does that value come from, then? Miami and ACC basketball. The programs themselves. They are willing to throw millions away to win championships, but that doesn't mean those players are worth that amount of money. There is no open market where a bidding place happens. This is still a "let's throw money at the dude and see what happens" environment.
What's always lost in your line of thinking and this tired argument is how much more the school does for the far, far majority of these football and basketball players than the athletes do for the school. There are a handful of guys every year that will blow up regardless (Paolo Banchero), but for every Banchero there are a hundred Trevions and Edeys--dudes that can now pursue decent contracts and pro opportunities because of the media access they got at Purdue. Purdue does more for the far majority of its players than the other way around.
If you truly wanted to make a free market argument, your argument would be to get rid of the one and done rule. This would alleviate all of this nonsense and would have prevented the NIL argument and current bullshit situation from ever arising. This is how I know you aren't arguing logically or consistently. But you aren't making that argument. You're making a very inconsistent, heavily refuted one instead.
What "rare and marketable skill" does someone like Damezi Anderson truly have? He is about to be on to a 3rd school...all for free...with multiple perks...and, has yet to do anything more on the basketball floor than the average walk-on has done or contributed.
What happened to Nate Minnoy after he left Purdue? Kory Spates?
What was Patrick Badey's "rare and marketable skillset" that allowed him to get a free education and multiple other perks at Purdue?
If not for the transfer portal and NIL, Nijel Pack would be at K-State...with no difference in his perceived market value. If Nijel Pack was the 20th-rated player in the transfer portal, he would be playing at Purdue likely, and, his "market value" would be what it was when he played at K-State. This has nothing at all to do with the actual market value of Nijel Pack himself or specifically...it is a gimmick...it is a blatant cash-to-play matter...it was cheating previously, and, now is not...but, it is the exact same thing.
Great point. And there are waaay more Landers, Donnie Hales, Jacob Lawsons, Grant Weatherfords, John Harts, Peter Jurkins, Jacquil Taylors, etc etc etc than Nijel Packs. The NCAA is passing rules to benefit the tiny minority and destroy the system for everyone else in the process, and then idiots that don't understand basic economics call it a free market.
Amen...and, there is nothing wrong with college athletics having those guys and so many like them...in fact, it is great...it is why it is COLLEGE (and amateur) athletics. Nijel Pack has the chance to make the money that he is right now BECAUSE of college basketball, and, absent it, he would likely not be making what he is making to play at Miami, and, he would absolutely not be making it playing professionally.
Sure, the elite of the elite will benefit and a case could possibly be made that they have more "market value", but, it is a stretch and entirely different from what is going on and is going to happen.
Never mind the fact that those guys were already being paid in many, many cases...so, they were still getting their market value, or, a significant piece of it.
Last edited:
Although I disagree with the notion that the college players need to get paid because coaches, ADs, schools etc make too much I will say I agree that the system is broken.
There should be some sort of cap on salary in amateur sports. I could even wrap my heads around profit sharing for players on teams who make deep runs in March or win CFB playoff. But this NIL thing is ruining college. Pretty soon there was be any more March madness, we won’t have college sports at all. We will have things like “the athletic company of Ohio state” where they just pay the school for the name but the players don’t go to school, they are students in any sense, they are just a minor league feeder. And if you’re okay with that happening and crumbling then that’s pretty sad becuase I enjoy March Madness and other college events and on this trajectory it will be obsolete soon.
and for the NCAA to act like they are helpless is a joke. They shit the bed and ****ed this whole thing up. All it would have taken was so for sight to be proactive and make steps to prevent this from happening. But cat is out of the bag and it’s never going to go back to the way it was.
There should be some sort of cap on salary in amateur sports. I could even wrap my heads around profit sharing for players on teams who make deep runs in March or win CFB playoff. But this NIL thing is ruining college. Pretty soon there was be any more March madness, we won’t have college sports at all. We will have things like “the athletic company of Ohio state” where they just pay the school for the name but the players don’t go to school, they are students in any sense, they are just a minor league feeder. And if you’re okay with that happening and crumbling then that’s pretty sad becuase I enjoy March Madness and other college events and on this trajectory it will be obsolete soon.
and for the NCAA to act like they are helpless is a joke. They shit the bed and ****ed this whole thing up. All it would have taken was so for sight to be proactive and make steps to prevent this from happening. But cat is out of the bag and it’s never going to go back to the way it was.
I doubt things go that far, unless the schools basically mutiny the NCAA. It'd take a Super League level split for the NCAA to go under
Not to be overly pessimistic but I think that’s coming. No sure how long it will take. But on this trajectory it’s a matter of time
also true. that unfortunately is the free market. Coach painter is worth 2million, and we found that that Coach Hazell as a B1G football coach is worth 0. That's life. it's a buyer beware market. That's how every labor market works. you negotiate comensation based on the valuation of both sides, and hopefully, you leave yourself an out, if one side ends up not being able to produce up to expectations. If you end up being wrong about your valuation like IU on lander, tough luck. I am fine with that as long as we are not using amateurism to keep down compensation for those worth it.
Last edited:
um this may be news to you. In many revenue sports, that's effectively what we have right now.
on this part, we agree. and I hold folks like you complicit for arguing against increasing compensation for student athletes in revenue beyond scholarships that many can't even really taken advantage of.
Meh, I think these NIL deals are just a massive overreaction because it's a complete 180 from how it was. I think there will be restrictions actually enforced once there's enough pressure from either lawmakers or the majority of schools
The absurdity of your argument is that you answered your own question. he has a rare and marketable enough skill that not 1, not 2 but 3 schools decided to take a chance and pay him in full-ride scholarships. given that not every student is getting such offers from school after school. I will say his skillsets from the perspective of those paying are indeed rare and marketable. Noone is forcing the schools to offer him scholarships
yeah duh. if you restrict a person's ability to participate in a free market, then the person will have no free market value. are your points always this stupid?
No, the absurdity is the idea that he does...as he has proven multiple times that he does not, and, he will prove it yet again. He is not even performing at a level to deserve the value of the scholarship, never mind some notion that he should be paid more in some form or fashion.
The true absurdity is the notion that these guys should be operating in a free market as amateur athletes. If so, then take away the scholarships and let them pay their way with the money that they are receiving in the free market...I am confident that if that were to happen, you would very quickly find different feelings about the value of said scholarship.
Wait, the restriction was "we will pay for your education and dozens of other perks" if you participate in a sport while you are here? Wow...how horrible.
no no no. you are the one making arguments that make no economic sense. Do you hear of anyone paying NBA players under the table? or people playing soccer players under the table? Or paying engineers under the table?No. because they can command their market rate legally. trust me if you impose stupid restrictions that lets you pay below market rates in salaries in any of those other industries, under the table payments & perks will happen. A practical historical example of this is how health insurance came to be tied with employment in the US. Due to WWII labor shortage, employers were not allowed to legally pay employees at market rates, so they started offering health insurance and other benefits instead.
The presence of under the table payment is exactly proof they are underpaid. That's Econ 101.
Last edited:
Coach Painter is not a student...he is a professional. He is a paid employee. College athletes are neither professionals or paid employees.
