While money isn't everything, assets employed do give an advantage. I think assistant salaries are a larger driver of results than recruiting budget. The idea that they are only 2/3 of the peer group is significant and to pretend that does not matter in attracting personnel is silly.
Can CMP Close The Deal
- Thread starter Boilers2525
- Start date
the pocketbook is still open under MB2 right?
or are some concerned we are not competitive $ wise again?
or are some concerned we are not competitive $ wise again?
i trust MBob to make the right call here. He knows what a basketball recruiting operation looks like.
I think it's a tricky situation. You seem to be evaluating them solely on recruiting. I think over the past several years, our combination scouting/game planning and player development has been second to none/very few on the consistent basis we've seen.
There's plenty of schools that recruit great players, yet don't develop them and the execution of games is lacking - again, plenty of examples to choose from in the Big Ten - IU, Illinois, Minnesota, etc. all has brought in talent, yet really struggled to execute with it.
You're trying to find the perfect coach and perfect assistants. The fact of the matter is that the combo is extremely rare, at the very least. And with those standards, our resources do not match - even beyond coaching salaries.
So if Brohm doesn't make the College Football Playoff in the next 10 years, should he be fired?
So much of the success in college B-BALL relies on recruiting. For which CMPs inabilities to be a good recruiter is all over this message board. I’m not a big fan of having an alum leading the basketball team because I think it makes it that much more difficult to show them the door. And now we have an alum leading both b-ball programs and they are trending down. Could someone please message me when we hit bottom please? Until then I’ll be on the football board.
I love that you're escaping to a .500 football team to get away from our dismal basketball program that lost to a team that whooped up on UNC and Villanova (Michigan beat Villanova 73-46, by the way). Heaven forbid we drop out of the top 25 for the second time in like the last 4 years. How shameful.
Why anyone's shocked that we've lost to 3 top 20 teams is beyond me. We weren't supposed to win any of them.
Respectfully, you need a reality check.
Naw. Too late for that. Its just the recruiting season took its toll on me. Seems the recruits lined up one by one. First Okoro. Solid chance for Purdue. Shoe U comes along and puts him on the Oregon bench. Then Malik. Almost a guarantee. In comes Izzo. He gone. Zeke. Really looking like a Boilermaker. Az from left field? The whole process seemed like it took 8 months. I was frustrated. Yes.
One or two key recruits can make a huge difference in basketball. Football recruiting isn't even close to basketball recruiting. Poor analogy.
the point is our recruiting is very average. If we were consistently recruiting top 15-20 classes, we wouldn't have seasonal drop off. We will be fortunate to get to the dance this year. Very fortunate. That should not be the case.
First of all, we were a 1 point favorite against VT.
Secondly, why does it matter what we were SUPPOSED to do? If we lose every remaining B10 game, I'll be pretty disappointed if we were underdogs or not. Additionally, isn't it even worse if Purdue is EXPECTED to lose a bunch of games?? Shows how far we've fallen in one year.
I agree with all of your broader points though; good insight.
I'm not as frustrated by Painter's lack of tourney success as other people are. I realize it's mostly a chance thing. But I'm extremely frustrated by his inability to string together really good classes. I think it's pretty clear that we're going to see a precipitous drop in wins next year.
So you have different standards for basketball than football? Makes sense. A .500 record gets you to a bowl game. A .500 in basketball doesn't even get you in the NIT anymore. The fact that you're whining about us making the NCAA Tournament on one of the most consistent basis in the Big Ten is pretty petty.
I actually do have different standards for football than basketball, for a lot of reasons, including recruiting base, tradition, history, fan support, etc.
UM is also top 5 most likely this week and we ran in to a buzzsaw at their place.
Plus we are (currently) in the top 20 after losing most of our scoring. That says what outsiders think of our team and is a major nod to Painter's coaching ability and it's reputation to those not on this forum.
Honest question: Between this year's IU and Purdue current teams and committed recruits, which one do you feel has the bigger upside?
This is a good question. I think it depends on who they are coached by. Painter has a long and proven track record of developing his players, and getting the most out of them. Archie is still unproven at the BIG level. He did well (win/loss) at the previous school, but I can't identify any situations where he developed someone. I'm not knocking him, I just don't know.
When I look at IU's roster plus recruits, I see a hell of a lot of medium sized forwards. I don't know how all those guys are going to fit together. There are only 5 guys on the court at an time. This is a big recruiting year for IU, so my analysis must consider a whole bunch of kids that have no college experience and whose games may or may not translate to the college game.
Right now I see Sasha, Haarms, Nojel, Boudreau and Tre next year, with Hunter, Wheeler and Dow coming off the bench. Add in Newman, who I think will be an impact player from day 1. That is a good team. For IU, I don't know if Romeo will return next year. I know Morgan is gone too. That makes IU very young up front. I do admit to having a blind spot regarding much of IU's current team, so what I offer is an indefensible opinion. To me, with my knowledge bias, Purdue will have the better 2019-2020 team because of experience and skill. Sasha and Nojel together will make the team very strong.
Fair analysis. I honestly am curious about the mindset of Purdue fans as to the state of the program and if they think Archie is going to have as much success on the court as he has in the recruiting game.
Pee, I don't know about IU and if they will have success. I hope they are successful, just not more so than Purdue.
I consider Michigan State more of a rival than IU, and have stated that several times. We have gone head-to-head many times over recruits and over the BIG championships. We won those recruiting battles for Nojel and Biggie, and lost Hall, Harris, and Dawson (that one still smells). If we are going to compare ourselves to a program. let's use one with a successful record and a strong future like MSU.
Don't get wrapped up in these recruiting battles for 6'7" forwards that are just high school players. This is a huge class for IU so they are going to have a big incoming class. This one smells much like the previous "movement", so I will wait to see how many of these forwards actually see the court.
Archie hasnt proven he can win at this level. He and his staff have proven to be very successful recruiting though. There will be a major talent discrepancy between Purdue and IU next year if Carsen leaves.
Personally I think all these recruiting misses are going to come back and bite us in the butt.
It seems that since Painter has been coach we have gone through phases of being good and bad. During our down years IU was good. I think we are seeing that change in success happening again now.
