Big Ten Player of the Year- 2 Man Race

[HoosierfanJM]

Bro, your butt-hurt excuses are being saved for my POTH wall of "you've never done anything and never will." In your lil' brother junior varsity dreams while I am LMAO and you GTFO! I don't know why this thread is allowed to exist, but your delusional garbage is part of you and your sad tears being too young to know what you're talking about and so old you're citing stuff from 100 years ago.

There; I've covered all form and substance of readily available message board insults in one post. Feel free to add this to future replies.

 

[IMSKRONG]

Not interested in your excuses. Take your tears elsewhere.

Lol. It isn't an excuse. It's just a fact.

 

[Wolegib]

Ok

Predicting end of season awards at the beginning or middle of the season is a rather frivolous and fruitless venture! There are still many games left to play. Maybe Murray will catch on fire. Maybe Dickerson will wake up. Maybe an injury will occur. Maybe maybe maybe…

The same is the with making final 4 predictions! The more times you predict something will happen the more likely it doesn’t happen. .


So if you want something to happen, stop predicting it will. And just be happy and surprised if it actually does happen! I’m confident Ivie is a lot happier playing for Detroit than Sacramento or Houston who were predicted to draft him.

 

[Gemini95]

I’m confident Ivie is a lot happier playing for Detroit than Sacramento or Houston who were predicted to draft him.

You're confident he's happier on the 12-37 dead last Pistons than he would be on the 27-19, 3rd place Kings? Mmkay.

 

[proudopete]

It’s really very simple.

The entire year will have a factor on who wins BPOY no matter how much IU fans want to limit it to just in conference. TJD can outplay Zach in the conference but it won’t be enough to overcome the fact that Zach has been putting up these numbers the entire year, from game one and TJD hasn’t. Those early games put Zach as the front runner or NPOY and he has been there for the entirety, by a good margin. He will likely win the award because of this.

There is zero chance that if Zach wins the NPOY that he doesn’t win the conference player of the year as well.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

POY discussions aside, I am looking forward to seeing Edey and TJD go head to head this year. That said, I actually like that matchup for Edey more than the Hunter Dickinson matchup this Thursday, given the pressure Hunter can put on Zach with his three point shooting.

 

[tjreese]

Well that is very possible. Part of playing such a tough schedule.

I think the Big is tough...especially if the wrestling matches are in play. However, didn't you previously state the Big was down? Obviously Purdue is not recognized as being down and if Purdue is not going to roll over those teams...which it probably won't...doesn't that suggest the Big is not necessarily down as some state? Doesn't that imply that either Purdue isn't very good contrary to it's work to this point or the Big may not be down...even taking consideration how close conference teams play each other every year since they know each other better than the outsiders...

 

[IMSKRONG]

I think the Big is tough...especially if the wrestling matches are in play. However, didn't you previously state the Big was down? Obviously Purdue is not recognized as being down and if Purdue is not going to roll over those teams...which it probably won't...doesn't that suggest the Big is not necessarily down as some state? Doesn't that imply that either Purdue isn't very good contrary to it's work to this point or the Big may not be down...even taking consideration how close conference teams play each other every year since they know each other better than the outsiders...

No it doesn't mean that at all. Gonzaga is very good. They've had tough games in the WCC. Is the WCC a really good conference? No. It's just Gonzaga and Saint Mary's. When you have a lot of teams that are below you, you'll end up playing down to the competition. The B1G is better than the WCC overall, but the same applies. And Purdue has had a few close games with teams in the Bottom 4 of the league. The B1G is very down. It might get 9 teams in the tourney, but it's going to be Purdue as a 1 or 2 seed and then most likely a bunch of lower seeds outside probably Rutgers and then maybe Indiana or someone depending how teams finish. As of 1/23 Lunardi had...
1. Purdue
5. Rutgers
5. Indiana
6. Michigan State
7. Illinois
8. Iowa
9. Wisconsin
11. Maryland
11. Northwestern
11. Ohio State (probably out now)
12. Penn State

 

[tjreese]

No it doesn't mean that at all. Gonzaga is very good. They've had tough games in the WCC. Is the WCC a really good conference? No. It's just Gonzaga and Saint Mary's. When you have a lot of teams that are below you, you'll end up playing down to the competition. The B1G is better than the WCC overall, but the same applies. And Purdue has had a few close games with teams in the Bottom 4 of the league. The B1G is very down. It might get 9 teams in the tourney, but it's going to be Purdue as a 1 or 2 seed and then most likely a bunch of lower seeds outside probably Rutgers and then maybe Indiana or someone depending how teams finish. As of 1/23 Lunardi had...
1. Purdue
5. Rutgers
5. Indiana
6. Michigan State
7. Illinois
8. Iowa
9. Wisconsin
11. Maryland
11. Northwestern
11. Ohio State (probably out now)
12. Penn State

nine teams is not bad...and possibly a play in for another one or two just depends if there is some separation as teh season goes on

 

[IMSKRONG]

nine teams is not bad...and possibly a play in for another one or two just depends if there is some separation as teh season goes on

Northwestern and Penn State are already considered play-in teams.

 

[Woodsa]

Yeah it's a 2 man race.

1. Edey
2. The field

This is exactly correct. NO ONE is talking about IU except for the duche bags at the IUStar. I gave up their stinking paper because of their politics. But, their sports reporting is horrible. Purdue is the #1 school in the country and the IUToilet paper is babbling about the Colts, IU, Pacers, anything but Purdue. Good heavens, if any other team in the state were #1 it would be non-stop.

 

[Wolegib]

Trayce had a very good week. If he keeps it up, he could potentially compete for npoy and Indiana could compete for a big 10 title. However to do so, both he and Indiana must keep up their current pace of this week and Purdue and Edey both have to go into a free fall.

While possible for one of the two possibilities to occur, it’s highly unlikely that both events will occur.

As for mvp and npoy, they typically go to the best player on the best team. So if Edey’s stats dip a little, if Purdue continues to win, he is a shoe in.

Yes there is a possibility somebody else might come along. It could snow in Florida too and the Brewers will win the World Series. But it’s not happening this year

 

[BoilerDaddy]

No it doesn't mean that at all. Gonzaga is very good. They've had tough games in the WCC. Is the WCC a really good conference? No. It's just Gonzaga and Saint Mary's. When you have a lot of teams that are below you, you'll end up playing down to the competition. The B1G is better than the WCC overall, but the same applies. And Purdue has had a few close games with teams in the Bottom 4 of the league. The B1G is very down. It might get 9 teams in the tourney, but it's going to be Purdue as a 1 or 2 seed and then most likely a bunch of lower seeds outside probably Rutgers and then maybe Indiana or someone depending how teams finish. As of 1/23 Lunardi had...
1. Purdue
5. Rutgers
5. Indiana
6. Michigan State
7. Illinois
8. Iowa
9. Wisconsin
11. Maryland
11. Northwestern
11. Ohio State (probably out now)
12. Penn State

Sagarin has the Big Ten as the number 2 conference behind the Big 12. I think that you are confusing the distribution of the teams with the overall quality of the conference. The strength of the Big Ten is its depth.

 

[13thman]

Edey and TJD's problem is that they don't play for Mich St. Media types love Izzo's guys.

 

[IMSKRONG]

Sagarin has the Big Ten as the number 2 conference behind the Big 12. I think that you are confusing the distribution of the teams with the overall quality of the conference. The strength of the Big Ten is its depth.

But the depth is mid. That's the point. Sure you have a Top 5 team. Then a bunch outside the Top 25. AP Poll is great for perception. As for the NET, Purdue is #4, Rutgers is #19 and Indiana is #20. Ohio State and Illinois are #26 and #27 but obviously OSUs is a bit of an anomaly. It's a league based more in mediocrity than great.

 

[bonefish1]

POY discussions aside, I am looking forward to seeing Edey and TJD go head to head this year. That said, I actually like that matchup for Edey more than the Hunter Dickinson matchup this Thursday, given the pressure Hunter can put on Zach with his three point shooting.

against TJD, Edey should just camp in the paint and don't move. Don't even play D on the high P n R. Let TJD take all the jumpers he wants.
But, what I see happening is iu trying to iso TJD on Edey and seeing if he can beat him with quickness to the rim, trying to go under, over, around or through him and draw fouls. Edey will have to play really smart and it'll be interesting to see if Painter puts Furst on TJD to protect Edey.

 

[IMSKRONG]

against TJD, Edey should just camp in the paint and don't move. Don't even play D on the high P n R. Let TJD take all the jumpers he wants.
But, what I see happening is iu trying to iso TJD on Edey and seeing if he can beat him with quickness to the rim, trying to go under, over, around or through him and draw fouls. Edey will have to play really smart and it'll be interesting to see if Painter puts Furst on TJD to protect Edey.

If he puts First on TJD, Furst is toast. Edey just has to be smart. And you can double as hard anymore because Indiana is actually hitting shots this year.

 

[tjreese]

against TJD, Edey should just camp in the paint and don't move. Don't even play D on the high P n R. Let TJD take all the jumpers he wants.
But, what I see happening is iu trying to iso TJD on Edey and seeing if he can beat him with quickness to the rim, trying to go under, over, around or through him and draw fouls. Edey will have to play really smart and it'll be interesting to see if Painter puts Furst on TJD to protect Edey.

This is an area where you like a match-up zone a bit and so you create a bit through man if possible with proper spacing and location for help and recover by the other 4. Zach has to be "close enough" to TJD that there is "some degree of contact" from the FT line in... 1) eliminate lobs. 2) cheat on rt shoulder half a body with wide base on blocks 3) non shooter defenders sometimes dig or fake dig if dribble starts out 15 feet away. TJD is NOT going to beat Purdue if Zach doesn't get in foul trouble which historically shouldn't be a problem.

Now, what does IU do with Zach? IU doesn't want TJD to get in foul trouble. If Purdue is successful getting Zach the ball and the refs don't let a mugging take place, TJD will probably not be defending Zach and now Purdue has the person Zach can defend and stay around the basket perhaps. Course if IU doesn't get going behind the arc...all that helps Purdue and Zach. Coaches have reams of video on both teams and so each will be trying to take away the other 5 without contributing too much to do so...

 

[HoosierfanJM]

This is an area where you like a match-up zone a bit and so you create a bit through man if possible with proper spacing and location for help and recover by the other 4. Zach has to be "close enough" to TJD that there is "some degree of contact" from the FT line in... 1) eliminate lobs. 2) cheat on rt shoulder half a body with wide base on blocks 3) non shooter defenders sometimes dig or fake dig if dribble starts out 15 feet away. TJD is NOT going to beat Purdue if Zach doesn't get in foul trouble which historically shouldn't be a problem.

Now, what does IU do with Zach? IU doesn't want TJD to get in foul trouble. If Purdue is successful getting Zach the ball and the refs don't let a mugging take place, TJD will probably not be defending Zach and now Purdue has the person Zach can defend and stay around the basket perhaps. Course if IU doesn't get going behind the arc...all that helps Purdue and Zach. Coaches have reams of video on both teams and so each will be trying to take away the other 5 without contributing too much to do so...

In other words, both coaches have a huge challenge on the defensive end.

For IU, the challenge is first and foremost a size issue. TJD is a very good post defender and largely avoids foul trouble, but he's not an over-sized post, and once Edey catches within five feet it's a done deal basket. Trayce will guard him becuase Geronimo cannot, but Durr did a god job last year - he was taller and heavier than Trayce. Likewise, I'd expect Reneau and even Duncomb, both heavier than Trayce to get a turn.

For Purdue, they have to defend IU's best offensive scheme option with Edey's worst defensive characteristic; ball screen defense. With Hood-Schifino and Bates shooting very well and Hood-Schifino at his best on mid-range ball screen curls, it's no longer an option for Edey to wait for Trayce at the rim - IU will simply screen the guards and let it fly.

A challenge for both teams.

 

[IMSKRONG]

In other words, both coaches have a huge challenge on the defensive end.

For IU, the challenge is first and foremost a size issue. TJD is a very good post defender and largely avoids foul trouble, but he's not an over-sized post, and once Edey catches within five feet it's a done deal basket. Trayce will guard him becuase Geronimo cannot, but Durr did a god job last year - he was taller and heavier than Trayce. Likewise, I'd expect Reneau and even Duncomb, both heavier than Trayce to get a turn.

For Purdue, they have to defend IU's best offensive scheme option with Edey's worst defensive characteristic; ball screen defense. With Hood-Schifino and Bates shooting very well and Hood-Schifino at his best on mid-range ball screen curls, it's no longer an option for Edey to wait for Trayce at the rim - IU will simply screen the guards and let it fly.

A challenge for both teams.

Indiana's defense has to start on the perimeter. Guys gotta be ready to hustle. Numbers wise, they aren't going to shoot well so you can double Edey. But gotta get back to shooters and box out.

 

[tjreese]

In other words, both coaches have a huge challenge on the defensive end.

For IU, the challenge is first and foremost a size issue. TJD is a very good post defender and largely avoids foul trouble, but he's not an over-sized post, and once Edey catches within five feet it's a done deal basket. Trayce will guard him becuase Geronimo cannot, but Durr did a god job last year - he was taller and heavier than Trayce. Likewise, I'd expect Reneau and even Duncomb, both heavier than Trayce to get a turn.

For Purdue, they have to defend IU's best offensive scheme option with Edey's worst defensive characteristic; ball screen defense. With Hood-Schifino and Bates shooting very well and Hood-Schifino at his best on mid-range ball screen curls, it's no longer an option for Edey to wait for Trayce at the rim - IU will simply screen the guards and let it fly.

A challenge for both teams.

Durr pushing and leaning on Trevion for two years did a very good job. I was thinking Duncomb might be the player to defend Zach if TJD does not, but then it crowds the area for TJD offensively. Schifino will be defended by Ethan I believe and Fletcher will have Galloway with Braden on Bates as primary defenders. If Duncomb defends Zach, then Caleb will be on that ball screen and Zach will still be down low. If the ball screen is a major issue Purdue will either have to work on forcing away from the screen to the baseline or go underneath if IU person is not a shooter or has a slow release. I don't see IU with the quickness of X in that scenario and see Zach better in that area this year as well. If IU doesn't shoot as well behind the arc as last game and Zach is not in foul trouble, then I think Purdue is in good shape. How does Trey do at IU? He will be playing in front of a lot of friends. Will he surprise us that he performs as capable when Zach and TJD are both out? Will Jenkins have that scoring game breakout he is capable but hasn't yet done it? He won't be having a lot of time dedicated to his play and maybe he has a Sterling Carter game at IU? Lots of what "ifs"....

The biggest thing working for IU was Trevion's wide open 5 foot shot that he short armed that would have sealed the game last year and the do over by phinisee after sasha got bumped and lost the ball on a rebound. That gave confidence to IU that they might not have had Purdue not lost.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Durr pushing and leaning on Trevion for two years did a very good job. I was thinking Duncomb might be the player to defend Zach if TJD does not, but then it crowds the area for TJD offensively. Schifino will be defended by Ethan I believe and Fletcher will have Galloway with Braden on Bates as primary defenders. If Duncomb defends Zach, then Caleb will be on that ball screen and Zach will still be down low. If the ball screen is a major issue Purdue will either have to work on forcing away from the screen to the baseline or go underneath if IU person is not a shooter or has a slow release. I don't see IU with the quickness of X in that scenario and see Zach better in that area this year as well. If IU doesn't shoot as well behind the arc as last game and Zach is not in foul trouble, then I think Purdue is in good shape. How does Trey do at IU? He will be playing in front of a lot of friends. Will he surprise us that he performs as capable when Zach and TJD are both out? Will Jenkins have that scoring game breakout he is capable but hasn't yet done it? He won't be having a lot of time dedicated to his play and maybe he has a Sterling Carter game at IU? Lots of what "ifs"....

The biggest thing working for IU was Trevion's wide open 5 foot shot that he short armed that would have sealed the game last year and the do over by phinisee after sasha got bumped and lost the ball on a rebound. That gave confidence to IU that could work against them this year had Purdue not lost.

FWIW, Duncomb has yet to play alongside Trayce -- with Race back Duncomb probably won't play much at all and IU has gotten away from two post players at once lately. Duncomb is the third string 5.

The strongest big on IU's roster is Malik Reneau. He will get in plenty of foul trouble on Edey, but he's the logical choice to defend Edey if Trayce is out of the game because he has the base to hold ground far better than Duncomb.

 

[tjreese]

FWIW, Duncomb has yet to play alongside Trayce -- with Race back Duncomb probably won't play much at all and IU has gotten away from two post players at once lately.

The strongest big on IU's roster is Malik Reneau. He will get in plenty of foul trouble on Edey, but he's the logical choice to defend Edey if Trayce is out of the game because he has the base to hold ground far better than Duncomb.

didn't know how tall he was. If not fouled Zach shoots downward to teh basket...not sure what Race does since I don't know how well he gets in game shape...but it really doesn't matter who IU has if they call the fouls with a quicker whistle inside both ways. If Duncomb doesn't play his grandmother will be down at half time to fix the situation. The game historically has been a surprise by a player and many times someone gets a hot hand from the perimeter

 

[HoosierfanJM]

didn't know how tall he was. If not fouled Zach shoots downward to teh basket...not sure what Race does since I don't know how well he gets in game shape...but it really doesn't matter who IU has if they call the fouls with a quicker whistle inside both ways. If Duncomb doesn't play his grandmother will be down at half time to fix the situation. The game historically has been a surprise by a player and many times someone gets a hot hand from the perimeter

Race has not and will not ever guard Edey.

Duncomb's grandma has likely been disappointed during IU's recent winning streak.

 

[tjreese]

Race has not and will not ever guard Edey.

Duncomb's grandma has likely been disappointed during IU's recent winning streak.

I think they used him to front one of Purdue bigs years ago...maybe Haas or TRevion nto sure of the time line, but not today

 

[Middawg]

PU is averaging 64 ppg in 2023 against the bottom feeders of the BIG and unable to score or approach 80 while IU has scored 80 plus in 5 of 6 games in 2023 playing short handed.


IU scores 70 against PU and their chances of beating PU are 75% and 95% if they hit 80.


How is a team with a nearly unguardable within 3 feet NPOY candidate struggle to score so badly and is basically Badger South offensively?


I really want to see a full strength IU against PU in the BTT.

 

[boilernuke]

This thread is my favorite.

Your guy might not even finish second.

And let’s just say Vegas doesn’t agree with you, so you can win serious money with hardly any investment with that kind of knowledge if you really believe it.

The only question left is will Edey get 100% of the first place votes or not.

Exactly. If you polled every BIG coach today, the answer would be unanimous.

 

[Middawg]

Exactly. If you polled every BIG coach today, the answer would be unanimous.

The 7 of 8 mostly close wins and near losses against the bottom 5 teams in the BIG is impressive.

Definitely racking up votes from those coaches.

 

[tjreese]

The 7 of 8 mostly close wins and near losses against the bottom 5 teams in the BIG is impressive.

Definitely racking up votes from those coaches.

Did you get a snow day?

 

[Smokestack91]

How is a team with a nearly unguardable within 3 feet NPOY candidate struggle to score so badly and is basically Badger South offensively?

Yet our offensive efficiency numbers are stellar.

 

[Poprudy]

The 7 of 8 mostly close wins and near losses against the bottom 5 teams in the BIG is impressive.

Definitely racking up votes from those coaches.

Lol

41.5% winning percentage vs 46.6% and we continue to win our games. Try harder. Don't forget unranked to #1 vs 13th to unranked. Good story.😉

 

[Abugabby]

PU is averaging 64 ppg in 2023 against the bottom feeders of the BIG and unable to score or approach 80 while IU has scored 80 plus in 5 of 6 games in 2023 playing short handed.


IU scores 70 against PU and their chances of beating PU are 75% and 95% if they hit 80.


How is a team with a nearly unguardable within 3 feet NPOY candidate struggle to score so badly and is basically Badger South offensively?


I really want to see a full strength IU against PU in the BTT.

We play at a much slower pace than most schools. We play slow and slow down our opponents.

 

[Roeder]

PU is averaging 64 ppg in 2023 against the bottom feeders of the BIG and unable to score or approach 80 while IU has scored 80 plus in 5 of 6 games in 2023 playing short handed.


IU scores 70 against PU and their chances of beating PU are 75% and 95% if they hit 80.


How is a team with a nearly unguardable within 3 feet NPOY candidate struggle to score so badly and is basically Badger South offensively?


I really want to see a full strength IU against PU in the BTT.

I was thinking the other day this Purdue team is built like some of the better Wisconsin teams of the past. Efficient half court offense, good defense, limit TOs, and pound the offensive glass. It's a recipe to win a ton of games (a lot of them closer due to slow pace) by simply taking good shots and winning the possession war.

Would I like the offense to score more? Sure, but it is pretty remarkable where Painter has this program based on expectations in what was supposed to be a rebuild year. I'm thrilled with wiping up the bottom half of the B1G and getting 7 quad 1 wins in the process.

 

[Poprudy]

I was thinking the other day this Purdue team is built like some of the better Wisconsin teams of the past. Efficient half court offense, good defense, limit TOs, and pound the offensive glass. It's a recipe to win a ton of games (a lot of them closer due to slow pace) by simply taking good shots and winning the possession war.

Would I like the offense to score more? Sure, but it is pretty remarkable where Painter has this program based on expectations in what was supposed to be a rebuild year. I'm thrilled with wiping up the bottom half of the B1G and getting 7 quad 1 wins in the process.

It's a team that they hate to play, because they continually get beat. What a complete dumb conclusion for an IU fan.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

We play at a much slower pace than most schools. We play slow and slow down our opponents.

Because Painter is smart.

His best player is not a "get out in transition" kinda guy, and fewer possessions means miles and less wear on Edey.

 

[IMSKRONG]

Because Painter is smart.

His best player is not a "get out in transition" kinda guy, and fewer possessions means miles and less wear on Edey.

Yup. Last year was different. You had to get out in transition. It'd be stupid to hold Ivey back. This year though Edey is playing 33mpg. And that was the biggest question for him, could he play massive minutes if needed. He's answered that and they use him a lot. Pretty sure he has a usage rate of like 33%, which is even higher than TJDs 30%.

 

[tjreese]

I was thinking the other day this Purdue team is built like some of the better Wisconsin teams of the past. Efficient half court offense, good defense, limit TOs, and pound the offensive glass. It's a recipe to win a ton of games (a lot of them closer due to slow pace) by simply taking good shots and winning the possession war.

Would I like the offense to score more? Sure, but it is pretty remarkable where Painter has this program based on expectations in what was supposed to be a rebuild year. I'm thrilled with wiping up the bottom half of the B1G and getting 7 quad 1 wins in the process.

I think you see Purdue playing more uptempo in a few years. I don't care...just win

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Because Painter is smart.

His best player is not a "get out in transition" kinda guy, and fewer possessions means miles and less wear on Edey.

While there is some truth in that, I don’t think it’s the reason.

Purdue doesn’t gamble much on defense, but forces tough shots by design. They also don’t stop the clock much with cheap fouls.

On offense, Purdue patiently probes for a good shot. The ball often goes through the post multiple times in a possession. Again, there is a lot of emphasis on taking care of the ball and not giving up easy points on transition buckets.

 

[Wolegib]

You're confident he's happier on the 12-37 dead last Pistons than he would be on the 27-19, 3rd place Kings? Mmkay.

Detroit was ivie’s dream team. Just ask his mom. Just watch that nba draft night video one more time after the kings drafted someone else. There is more to playing in the nba than just a team’s record.

Big Dog loved playing in Milwaukee. As does Giannis!

 

[proudopete]

IU scored 63 against Wisconsin and 66 against Penn State. I think that’s more along the lines of what the score will be in this game. It’s gonna be a rock fight and whichever team shoots the best is gonna win.