Are some of you nuts??? (long, so sue me)

[RegionWarrior101]

Okay, this has been getting beyond ludicrous. And here I thought most of us on this board were Purdue engineering graduates, or otherwise had some concept of logic and rationale.

So let me get this straight - some of you would gladly get rid of Matt Painter simply because he has not reached the Elite Eight or Final Four as yet. You know, fire the coach who has won 30 games and has a better career winning percentage than the guy with his name on the floor???

Yeah, that would sure send a message to possible replacements, huh? So have any of you who want to ditch CMP thought about the repercussions of what that would do to the program???

First of all, when you go to hire a replacement - likely someone who has won a lot, but may not be winning at the same or better percentage than Painter - how do you think they would feel about signing up when they know their predecessor was fired after winning 30 games and a higher percentage of games than they had? I mean, no pressure there, huh? Just get to the Final Four, pal, all else will work out!

So we tell them, hey, no worries, just land a top ten recruiting class in your first year and take them to at least an Elite Eight before we extend you, k??? So how long do we give this unicorn coach in his first contract? Four years? Five? Six? I mean, when do we pull the damn plug if we don't get to the third weekend?

Really??? I mean, REALLY?

Okay, so maybe we scare off some top young coaches who might want a little stability for the young families they might be raising. So we go throw some money at someone who HAS won at a higher career percentage than Matt. You know, cause since they already win at a higher percentage, the fact we fired someone for winning at a lesser clip isn't going to let that intimidate them, will it? Good plan, huh?

Well, maybe not. Cause if you think you're going to lure away the likes of Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Calipari, or other Big Name Coach, et al - or even perennial fantasy fav, Billy Donovan, then I want what you are smoking!

But wait, there are more! So who else is there?

Exactly these coaches:
1) Mark Few (Gonzaga)
2) Dave Rose (BYU)
3) Greg Marshall (Wichita State)
4) Jamie Dixon (TCU)
5) Randy Bennett (St. Mary's-CA)
6) Tony Bennett (UVA)

That's it. And of those, only Mark Few and Greg Marshall have been to a Final Four - once, each. Mark Few in his 18th season, and Greg Marshall in his 15th season.

Well, out of those, I think it's safe to say that Mark Few ain't going anywhere. He's been offered Oregon (his alma mater), and Arizona, and he continues to pass. And he just completed his 19th year at Gonzaga. So cross him off.

Likewise, Tony Bennett has been at UVa for 9 years now, and 3 years at Washington State before that, so if he goes somewhere, it would likely be to a bigger fish than Purdue.

Dave Rose and Randy Bennett have been battling Mark Few in the WCC for 13 years and 17 years, respectively. If neither of them have left for greener pastures by now, what makes you think either one will jump at the chance to put a gun to their head at a Purdue program that has had traditional problems recruiting top players?

And Jamie Dixon? Please, really? He has had double-digit losses in 6 of his last seven seasons. Four of his last five teams at Pitt, and with both of his TCU teams. He was a flash in the pan years ago, but hasn't done much since. And more importantly, he has never sniffed a Final Four, and his overall W-L ncaa tourney record is 12-12. Lots of potential there!

Which brings us to Greg Marshall. He's already in his 20th year of coaching, 11 years at Wichita State, and he's already turned down the likes of Alabama and NC State. He wasn't all that interested in the Illinois job, so he is not apparently lusting to duke it out in the B1G, and he did outwardly admit he had wanted the Texas job after Barnes left. Doesn't sound like he'd be all that juiced about Purdue, IMHO. Especially with a "get to the Final Four or else" dictum in his contract.

So where does that leave us?

It leaves us fishing, that's where. Fishing for some young and promising coach who is foolish enough to ignore the fact we fired a coach after winning 30 games and just missed two possible Elite Eights (and Final Fours???) due to the unfortunate timing of injuries. But hey, maybe he is crazy enough to overlook the nuttiness of it all.

But then, maybe not his recruits. Ever thought about that??? As has been so eloquently blathered about ad nauseam in other recent threads, apparently recruits care nothing more than the coach they will be playing for. Okay, so how would they feel about committing to a school where the coach is always on the hot seat after missing the prior Final Four? Do they really want to risk the commitment if their cherished coach-to-be might be fired for some other "hot" coach du jour? I mean, the heady night life in West Lafayette notwithstanding, and the miles of endless and beautiful isolation amidst a scenic sea of cornfields that surround such a Xanadu, I'm thinking that a coach on the perennial hot seat would not be much of an inducement to sign. If you know what I mean.

And finally, what happens when our first savior falls short? You know, like Leon on the gridiron. Do we follow up that act with another "Akers" and "Colletto"? And how did that work out for Nebraska football after they tossed Solich? Was all that red in the stands what the fans were wearing, or from their contorted, angry faces? So do we eventually turn into the basketball version of the Tennessee football dumpster fire? (oh wait, that's right, at least they had a national title in the past 20 years. Oops.) Or maybe we take the scenic route like the IU road through Davis/Sampson/Crean? At least they got a Final Four out of Davis. And I can still see the cherubic glow of satisfaction on their fans' faces to this day! Ahhhh, such memories!

So why not throw out one of the best coaches we've ever had and toss caution to the wind? I mean, who cares if we finish dead last every other year after all of our bought and paid for nba talent bolts for the draft? At least if we get to the holy grail of the Final Four, like Mike Davis did, WHO THE HELL CARES how many damn games we win, anyway?

Well, personally, I do.

So go ahead back to sniffing glue and dreaming your dreams of the Unicorn Coach and the endless third weekends of every March until even the ghost of Wooden longs to return home.

Pardon me if I don't join in the fun.

What does a 30 win season mean with absolutely no hardware? Not one tangible award. Unless we get a banner for 7th place at Atlantis.

And I am not a "fire Painter" guy, but that would be why people are upset.

 

[Mandeville LA]

They are not settling. Painter has done nothing more than Crean did and they weren't happy with it. I'm not really and Archie fan either, but at least they are trying.

I was going to tell you that you are really bad at making aurguments to support your position but 85 beat me to it.

 

[Purdue85]

Motive? Do you think I need a motive to express my severe disappointment with what I perceive to have been a major let down by some of the players?

Here's a clue... I was angry. Anger happens. Perhaps you are familiar with the concept. It seems so, just you direct it toward the coach.

Now for anyone else trying to resolve my two posts, let me help...

I've coached a lot of basketball over the years, and one thing I have learned to recognize is when a player gives up. Now, some of you may think that "giving up" has only one meaning - such as giving up on a game, or the season.

Not true; there's more. A lot more.

I've seen kids give up on themselves in certain situations, like their confidence when confronted by a situation or opposing player that makes them change their behavior. You've all seen it, like when you are a good shooter, but perhaps not as athletic as the guy defending you. So you hesitate on the trigger because you fear getting pancaked by the ball when you release your shot. So you try to overcompensate in other areas - like become a better passer and look for others to score. But if you're the best shooter on the team, we don't need a few more passes - especially if no one else is open - we need you to do what you do best - shoot! So work harder to get open and shoot!

Oh, and there are plenty of other areas - like trying to defend someone quicker, and giving up by completely laying off and allowing open shots from the perimeter without either trying something else like playing up and shading to their strong side, or asking for help. Or a post player who is facing a bigger, taller player who can jump through the roof and then never tries to use his footwork or the rim to get a clean shot. There are too many other examples to cite.

But am I saying that such a player who gives up is not working his/her tail off in other ways while trying to win? No, of course not. What I am saying is the player has raised the white flag on one of his or her better skills before even attempting to try it. Successful players try and fail, then adjust and try again. You get a shot blocked, you don't give up that weapon! Especially when your team desperately needs it. So the solution is not to give up on your shot and try to be a better passer. You still be the passer, but you work harder to get the shot. And you don't hesitate when you get it. Dakota Mathias didn't hesitate when there were 13 seconds left against Butler with a more athletic player just a half step off. So what was his excuse against Tech?

Now, do I think Dakota is a bad person, or a bad player? Don't be ridiculous. He's a very talented, hard working, and dedicated player. But when you are the best perimeter shooter in the building and you give up on your outside shot in any game, before anyone even blocks that shot, means you gave up on a weapon the team could have used. That it sorely needed.

Oh sure, if a player takes several shots and they don't go down, that doesn't mean you keep throwing up prayers. It means you get more careful with your shot selection, only taking shots in rhythm, and when you are open. You don't give up the shot. You work harder to find the right shot while you continue to work at the other parts of your game. But when you completely stop looking for your shot because of some fear or lack of confidence, you're giving up. And as a former coach, I cannot accept that.

I have always believed in my players, win or lose. And I have always tried to teach them to believe in themselves. That failure is nothing more than an opportunity to find new ways to step up, to expand your game. And if you're having a tough night, fine, teams lose, players have off nights. But I would rather my players try to adjust and fail, than give up on themselves and fail.

Now some simple minded people will claim that those issues are the fault of the coach. Look, I can give you the weapons, train you how to use them, and push and encourage you to believe in yourself. But I cannot give you the courage to try, or put forth the effort, and I cannot do your job for you. I can sit you down if you don't measure up to yourself or your team, but at some point the player has to take responsibility for their own choices.

Now, maybe in the blindness of my own anger and frustration, I did not express myself well. And maybe I was over the top with some of my comments. But guess what, I'm human and I can get just as carried away as anyone else here. I mean, no other coach has ever gotten carried away, right???

But what hurt the most about that loss, was not the loss in and of itself, it's that I saw four promising and hard fought careers go down the drain because of several cases where some key players gave up - on themselves and their teammates. And that to me, under those circumstances, is unforgivable.

Sorry if that bothers anyone around here. So deal with it.

Not sure why you quoted me. If I'm reading you correctly, we're in alignment. If you think I was questioning you, you radically misunderstood.

My point was that I don't know you personally, but i was asking the other poster what his/her motive is here.

Have a nice day, Bob.

 

[Purdue85]

if you actually read that, it shouldn't take long to understand.



ha that pretty much sums up this place. no 2 fans are alike, nor have the same measuring stick, enjoyment level, etc.

the thing that matters is a fan's level of influence. a bigger $ booster (like purdue85) vs an average season ticket holder... they have much different impacts and influence on the AD.

I did read it.

Are you unwilling to articulate it?

 

[tjreese]

Okay, this has been getting beyond ludicrous. And here I thought most of us on this board were Purdue engineering graduates, or otherwise had some concept of logic and rationale.

So let me get this straight - some of you would gladly get rid of Matt Painter simply because he has not reached the Elite Eight or Final Four as yet. You know, fire the coach who has won 30 games and has a better career winning percentage than the guy with his name on the floor???

Yeah, that would sure send a message to possible replacements, huh? So have any of you who want to ditch CMP thought about the repercussions of what that would do to the program???

First of all, when you go to hire a replacement - likely someone who has won a lot, but may not be winning at the same or better percentage than Painter - how do you think they would feel about signing up when they know their predecessor was fired after winning 30 games and a higher percentage of games than they had? I mean, no pressure there, huh? Just get to the Final Four, pal, all else will work out!

So we tell them, hey, no worries, just land a top ten recruiting class in your first year and take them to at least an Elite Eight before we extend you, k??? So how long do we give this unicorn coach in his first contract? Four years? Five? Six? I mean, when do we pull the damn plug if we don't get to the third weekend?

Really??? I mean, REALLY?

Okay, so maybe we scare off some top young coaches who might want a little stability for the young families they might be raising. So we go throw some money at someone who HAS won at a higher career percentage than Matt. You know, cause since they already win at a higher percentage, the fact we fired someone for winning at a lesser clip isn't going to let that intimidate them, will it? Good plan, huh?

Well, maybe not. Cause if you think you're going to lure away the likes of Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Calipari, or other Big Name Coach, et al - or even perennial fantasy fav, Billy Donovan, then I want what you are smoking!

But wait, there are more! So who else is there?

Exactly these coaches:
1) Mark Few (Gonzaga)
2) Dave Rose (BYU)
3) Greg Marshall (Wichita State)
4) Jamie Dixon (TCU)
5) Randy Bennett (St. Mary's-CA)
6) Tony Bennett (UVA)

That's it. And of those, only Mark Few and Greg Marshall have been to a Final Four - once, each. Mark Few in his 18th season, and Greg Marshall in his 15th season.

Well, out of those, I think it's safe to say that Mark Few ain't going anywhere. He's been offered Oregon (his alma mater), and Arizona, and he continues to pass. And he just completed his 19th year at Gonzaga. So cross him off.

Likewise, Tony Bennett has been at UVa for 9 years now, and 3 years at Washington State before that, so if he goes somewhere, it would likely be to a bigger fish than Purdue.

Dave Rose and Randy Bennett have been battling Mark Few in the WCC for 13 years and 17 years, respectively. If neither of them have left for greener pastures by now, what makes you think either one will jump at the chance to put a gun to their head at a Purdue program that has had traditional problems recruiting top players?

And Jamie Dixon? Please, really? He has had double-digit losses in 6 of his last seven seasons. Four of his last five teams at Pitt, and with both of his TCU teams. He was a flash in the pan years ago, but hasn't done much since. And more importantly, he has never sniffed a Final Four, and his overall W-L ncaa tourney record is 12-12. Lots of potential there!

Which brings us to Greg Marshall. He's already in his 20th year of coaching, 11 years at Wichita State, and he's already turned down the likes of Alabama and NC State. He wasn't all that interested in the Illinois job, so he is not apparently lusting to duke it out in the B1G, and he did outwardly admit he had wanted the Texas job after Barnes left. Doesn't sound like he'd be all that juiced about Purdue, IMHO. Especially with a "get to the Final Four or else" dictum in his contract.

So where does that leave us?

It leaves us fishing, that's where. Fishing for some young and promising coach who is foolish enough to ignore the fact we fired a coach after winning 30 games and just missed two possible Elite Eights (and Final Fours???) due to the unfortunate timing of injuries. But hey, maybe he is crazy enough to overlook the nuttiness of it all.

But then, maybe not his recruits. Ever thought about that??? As has been so eloquently blathered about ad nauseam in other recent threads, apparently recruits care nothing more than the coach they will be playing for. Okay, so how would they feel about committing to a school where the coach is always on the hot seat after missing the prior Final Four? Do they really want to risk the commitment if their cherished coach-to-be might be fired for some other "hot" coach du jour? I mean, the heady night life in West Lafayette notwithstanding, and the miles of endless and beautiful isolation amidst a scenic sea of cornfields that surround such a Xanadu, I'm thinking that a coach on the perennial hot seat would not be much of an inducement to sign. If you know what I mean.

And finally, what happens when our first savior falls short? You know, like Leon on the gridiron. Do we follow up that act with another "Akers" and "Colletto"? And how did that work out for Nebraska football after they tossed Solich? Was all that red in the stands what the fans were wearing, or from their contorted, angry faces? So do we eventually turn into the basketball version of the Tennessee football dumpster fire? (oh wait, that's right, at least they had a national title in the past 20 years. Oops.) Or maybe we take the scenic route like the IU road through Davis/Sampson/Crean? At least they got a Final Four out of Davis. And I can still see the cherubic glow of satisfaction on their fans' faces to this day! Ahhhh, such memories!

So why not throw out one of the best coaches we've ever had and toss caution to the wind? I mean, who cares if we finish dead last every other year after all of our bought and paid for nba talent bolts for the draft? At least if we get to the holy grail of the Final Four, like Mike Davis did, WHO THE HELL CARES how many damn games we win, anyway?

Well, personally, I do.

So go ahead back to sniffing glue and dreaming your dreams of the Unicorn Coach and the endless third weekends of every March until even the ghost of Wooden longs to return home.

Pardon me if I don't join in the fun.

Bob, they are fans. There are no requirements to be a fan and so you can and if you stay tuned in see damn near everything with many times little explanation to what some have as points of consideration.

 

[Purdue85]

What does a 30 win season mean with absolutely no hardware? Not one tangible award. Unless we get a banner for 7th place at Atlantis.

And I am not a "fire Painter" guy, but that would be why people are upset.

I get it.

But, that "hardware" comment is where we have a complete disconnect.

Like many around here, I've watched athletics (Purdue, and others) for quite some time. But, let's stick to Purdue basketball.

In my years of following Purdue BB, I have very fond memories of the dozens upon dozens of young men who have stepped foot on the Mackey Arena floor, wearing the Gold and Black. I have no greater regard for the young men who won B1G titles, and no less regard for the young men who struggled on poor teams who finished low in the B1G standings. Ditto, those who went to the doorstep of the Final Four, only to lose in the Elite Eight.

None of the critics would have been placated by a trophy at Atlantis. Nor would they have been okay with a trophy at Atlantis, a B1G Championship, and a B1G tournament championship. And if Painter had taken the team to the FF and lost, the same people would have been here b*tching and moaning if he never got back, or if he got back and never won a NC within their arbitrary allotted time frame.

They're transactional. "What's in it for me? How do you make me feel better about myself? Give me satisfaction with my arbitrary level of athletic success, or I'm going to throw a fit."

No thanks.

I love this program; the history, tradition, and the success that has hundreds of other programs wishing they were in our shoes. I know you, and many others, do, as well. We all share in the disappointment of the coaches and players when they fail to win the NC. But what goes on within this forum is embarrassing, for such a successful program.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

I get it.

But, that "hardware" comment is where we have a complete disconnect.

Like many around here, I've watched athletics (Purdue, and others) for quite some time. But, let's stick to Purdue basketball.

In my years of following Purdue BB, I have very fond memories of the dozens upon dozens of young men who have stepped foot on the Mackey Arena floor, wearing the Gold and Black. I have no greater regard for the young men who won B1G titles, and no less regard for the young men who struggled on poor teams who finished low in the B1G standings. Ditto, those who went to the doorstep of the Final Four, only to lose in the Elite Eight.

None of the critics would have been placated by a trophy at Atlantis. Nor would they have been okay with a trophy at Atlantis, a B1G Championship, and a B1G tournament championship. And if Painter had taken the team to the FF and lost, the same people would have been here b*tching and moaning if he never got back, or if he got back and never won a NC within their arbitrary allotted time frame.

They're transactional. "What's in it for me? How do you make me feel better about myself? Give me satisfaction with my arbitrary level of athletic success, or I'm going to throw a fit."

No thanks.

I love this program; the history, tradition, and the success that has hundreds of other programs wishing they were in our shoes. I know you, and many others, do, as well. We all share in the disappointment of the coaches and players when they fail to win the NC. But what goes on within this forum is embarrassing, for such a successful program.

I didn't say an NC. And with the Haas injury the Final Four was out. But winning a Big Ten Title was within reach.

To brag about the # of wins and streak because there is nothing tangible to recognize this season is participation trophyesque. Great season. Nothing to show for it. Have a juice box and wonder what if.

My disappointment is from the bliwn opportunities to win a Championship.

 

[Bob Sienicki]

Not sure why you quoted me. If I'm reading you correctly, we're in alignment. If you think I was questioning you, you radically misunderstood.

My point was that I don't know you personally, but i was asking the other poster what his/her motive is here.

Have a nice day, Bob.

It was late and I conflated you with BoilerBiker. My apologies.

I just need to let this go. Tj is right.

 

[Pharmer98]

while its admirable to defend adult coaches,
why do the same people lash out on student players? sorry but a huge wtf.

----
"Texas Tech truly sucks. Villanova will wipe the floor with them. Purdue should have won by 25. But because we have players who are so easily intimidated by a little athleticism, we fold like so many other Purdue teams of the past - at least since I've been a fan from the Rick Mount days.

I will never remember this team with any heartfelt "what if's" like I did with the Three Amigos, or the Baby Boilers, or G-Robs' final team - or any of the other near-great teams of the past.

I will remember this team as a team that should have accomplished much more than it did - a severe disappointment. At times, it was a joy to watch when they played like the complete team they were. But when one of their senior leaders went down, rather than step up with confidence, they all fumble and bumble around like so many undisciplined middle and high school teams I've watched over the years.

No, this team, despite winning a record 19 games in a row, and 30 games overall, is simply a team that never came close to accomplishing what it could have, that never believed enough in itself to overcome a little adversity, that always apparently sought refuge in the convenient excuse.

Thanks for the tease and a few wins. Have a nice life and I look forward to the seniors filling in future roster spots of the Alumni games. Yay, team.

Now, on to next season. I hope Haarms learned something today. Maybe he comes back a lion and not a bungling pussycat. Or maybe he finds a few minutes behind Dow. I guess we'll soon find out!"
-Bob Sienicki

What's up with a dude that starts a thread by stating that anyone that doesn't support Painter is illogical, but explains a prior post that lashed out at the players by saying "I was angry. It happens."?

I have zero years of coaching experience, so unlike Bob, I was unable to determine that the loss to TT was a direct result of the players quitting. However, I can spot irony when I see it.

On a TIC side note, what do people think about adding like a "Battle Rap/Drop The Mic" type feature to the forum? Like if a thread starts to get contentious and a few people are going back and forth at each other and someone hits a walkoff home run against someone else, I mean really crushes them, then the "Drop the Mic" feature kicks in and the person that got owned can no longer post on that thread. Effectively, that person has lost that round and must get off the stage. They can come back for later rounds by posting in different threads, but they are locked out of that thread. It might save a few good threads from the person that gets blasted and then adds another five or six terrible messages in an attempt to save face.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Motive? Do you think I need a motive to express my severe disappointment with what I perceive to have been a major let down by some of the players?

Here's a clue... I was angry. Anger happens. Perhaps you are familiar with the concept. It seems so, just you direct it toward the coach.

Now for anyone else trying to resolve my two posts, let me help...

I've coached a lot of basketball over the years, and one thing I have learned to recognize is when a player gives up. Now, some of you may think that "giving up" has only one meaning - such as giving up on a game, or the season.

Not true; there's more. A lot more.

I've seen kids give up on themselves in certain situations, like their confidence when confronted by a situation or opposing player that makes them change their behavior. You've all seen it, like when you are a good shooter, but perhaps not as athletic as the guy defending you. So you hesitate on the trigger because you fear getting pancaked by the ball when you release your shot. So you try to overcompensate in other areas - like become a better passer and look for others to score. But if you're the best shooter on the team, we don't need a few more passes - especially if no one else is open - we need you to do what you do best - shoot! So work harder to get open and shoot!

Oh, and there are plenty of other areas - like trying to defend someone quicker, and giving up by completely laying off and allowing open shots from the perimeter without either trying something else like playing up and shading to their strong side, or asking for help. Or a post player who is facing a bigger, taller player who can jump through the roof and then never tries to use his footwork or the rim to get a clean shot. There are too many other examples to cite.

But am I saying that such a player who gives up is not working his/her tail off in other ways while trying to win? No, of course not. What I am saying is the player has raised the white flag on one of his or her better skills before even attempting to try it. Successful players try and fail, then adjust and try again. You get a shot blocked, you don't give up that weapon! Especially when your team desperately needs it. So the solution is not to give up on your shot and try to be a better passer. You still be the passer, but you work harder to get the shot. And you don't hesitate when you get it. Dakota Mathias didn't hesitate when there were 13 seconds left against Butler with a more athletic player just a half step off. So what was his excuse against Tech?

Now, do I think Dakota is a bad person, or a bad player? Don't be ridiculous. He's a very talented, hard working, and dedicated player. But when you are the best perimeter shooter in the building and you give up on your outside shot in any game, before anyone even blocks that shot, means you gave up on a weapon the team could have used. That it sorely needed.

Oh sure, if a player takes several shots and they don't go down, that doesn't mean you keep throwing up prayers. It means you get more careful with your shot selection, only taking shots in rhythm, and when you are open. You don't give up the shot. You work harder to find the right shot while you continue to work at the other parts of your game. But when you completely stop looking for your shot because of some fear or lack of confidence, you're giving up. And as a former coach, I cannot accept that.

I have always believed in my players, win or lose. And I have always tried to teach them to believe in themselves. That failure is nothing more than an opportunity to find new ways to step up, to expand your game. And if you're having a tough night, fine, teams lose, players have off nights. But I would rather my players try to adjust and fail, than give up on themselves and fail.

Now some simple minded people will claim that those issues are the fault of the coach. Look, I can give you the weapons, train you how to use them, and push and encourage you to believe in yourself. But I cannot give you the courage to try, or put forth the effort, and I cannot do your job for you. I can sit you down if you don't measure up to yourself or your team, but at some point the player has to take responsibility for their own choices.

Now, maybe in the blindness of my own anger and frustration, I did not express myself well. And maybe I was over the top with some of my comments. But guess what, I'm human and I can get just as carried away as anyone else here. I mean, no other coach has ever gotten carried away, right???

But what hurt the most about that loss, was not the loss in and of itself, it's that I saw four promising and hard fought careers go down the drain because of several cases where some key players gave up - on themselves and their teammates. And that to me, under those circumstances, is unforgivable.

Sorry if that bothers anyone around here. So deal with it.

I don't believe for a second Dakota gave up on himself or his shot in the TT game. Imo you're drawing conclusions from the results, not from the game itself. I don't think someone who has played or coached the game at a high level would say that. Clearly TT took away what we do best, that included the Dakota three. He rarely forces shots.......but that was the only way he was going to get them in that game.

 

[PurdueSteve]

Okay, this has been getting beyond ludicrous. And here I thought most of us on this board were Purdue engineering graduates, or otherwise had some concept of logic and rationale.

So let me get this straight - some of you would gladly get rid of Matt Painter simply because he has not reached the Elite Eight or Final Four as yet. You know, fire the coach who has won 30 games and has a better career winning percentage than the guy with his name on the floor???

Yeah, that would sure send a message to possible replacements, huh? So have any of you who want to ditch CMP thought about the repercussions of what that would do to the program???

First of all, when you go to hire a replacement - likely someone who has won a lot, but may not be winning at the same or better percentage than Painter - how do you think they would feel about signing up when they know their predecessor was fired after winning 30 games and a higher percentage of games than they had? I mean, no pressure there, huh? Just get to the Final Four, pal, all else will work out!

So we tell them, hey, no worries, just land a top ten recruiting class in your first year and take them to at least an Elite Eight before we extend you, k??? So how long do we give this unicorn coach in his first contract? Four years? Five? Six? I mean, when do we pull the damn plug if we don't get to the third weekend?

Really??? I mean, REALLY?

Okay, so maybe we scare off some top young coaches who might want a little stability for the young families they might be raising. So we go throw some money at someone who HAS won at a higher career percentage than Matt. You know, cause since they already win at a higher percentage, the fact we fired someone for winning at a lesser clip isn't going to let that intimidate them, will it? Good plan, huh?

Well, maybe not. Cause if you think you're going to lure away the likes of Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Calipari, or other Big Name Coach, et al - or even perennial fantasy fav, Billy Donovan, then I want what you are smoking!

But wait, there are more! So who else is there?

Exactly these coaches:
1) Mark Few (Gonzaga)
2) Dave Rose (BYU)
3) Greg Marshall (Wichita State)
4) Jamie Dixon (TCU)
5) Randy Bennett (St. Mary's-CA)
6) Tony Bennett (UVA)

That's it. And of those, only Mark Few and Greg Marshall have been to a Final Four - once, each. Mark Few in his 18th season, and Greg Marshall in his 15th season.

Well, out of those, I think it's safe to say that Mark Few ain't going anywhere. He's been offered Oregon (his alma mater), and Arizona, and he continues to pass. And he just completed his 19th year at Gonzaga. So cross him off.

Likewise, Tony Bennett has been at UVa for 9 years now, and 3 years at Washington State before that, so if he goes somewhere, it would likely be to a bigger fish than Purdue.

Dave Rose and Randy Bennett have been battling Mark Few in the WCC for 13 years and 17 years, respectively. If neither of them have left for greener pastures by now, what makes you think either one will jump at the chance to put a gun to their head at a Purdue program that has had traditional problems recruiting top players?

And Jamie Dixon? Please, really? He has had double-digit losses in 6 of his last seven seasons. Four of his last five teams at Pitt, and with both of his TCU teams. He was a flash in the pan years ago, but hasn't done much since. And more importantly, he has never sniffed a Final Four, and his overall W-L ncaa tourney record is 12-12. Lots of potential there!

Which brings us to Greg Marshall. He's already in his 20th year of coaching, 11 years at Wichita State, and he's already turned down the likes of Alabama and NC State. He wasn't all that interested in the Illinois job, so he is not apparently lusting to duke it out in the B1G, and he did outwardly admit he had wanted the Texas job after Barnes left. Doesn't sound like he'd be all that juiced about Purdue, IMHO. Especially with a "get to the Final Four or else" dictum in his contract.

So where does that leave us?

It leaves us fishing, that's where. Fishing for some young and promising coach who is foolish enough to ignore the fact we fired a coach after winning 30 games and just missed two possible Elite Eights (and Final Fours???) due to the unfortunate timing of injuries. But hey, maybe he is crazy enough to overlook the nuttiness of it all.

But then, maybe not his recruits. Ever thought about that??? As has been so eloquently blathered about ad nauseam in other recent threads, apparently recruits care nothing more than the coach they will be playing for. Okay, so how would they feel about committing to a school where the coach is always on the hot seat after missing the prior Final Four? Do they really want to risk the commitment if their cherished coach-to-be might be fired for some other "hot" coach du jour? I mean, the heady night life in West Lafayette notwithstanding, and the miles of endless and beautiful isolation amidst a scenic sea of cornfields that surround such a Xanadu, I'm thinking that a coach on the perennial hot seat would not be much of an inducement to sign. If you know what I mean.

And finally, what happens when our first savior falls short? You know, like Leon on the gridiron. Do we follow up that act with another "Akers" and "Colletto"? And how did that work out for Nebraska football after they tossed Solich? Was all that red in the stands what the fans were wearing, or from their contorted, angry faces? So do we eventually turn into the basketball version of the Tennessee football dumpster fire? (oh wait, that's right, at least they had a national title in the past 20 years. Oops.) Or maybe we take the scenic route like the IU road through Davis/Sampson/Crean? At least they got a Final Four out of Davis. And I can still see the cherubic glow of satisfaction on their fans' faces to this day! Ahhhh, such memories!

So why not throw out one of the best coaches we've ever had and toss caution to the wind? I mean, who cares if we finish dead last every other year after all of our bought and paid for nba talent bolts for the draft? At least if we get to the holy grail of the Final Four, like Mike Davis did, WHO THE HELL CARES how many damn games we win, anyway?

Well, personally, I do.

So go ahead back to sniffing glue and dreaming your dreams of the Unicorn Coach and the endless third weekends of every March until even the ghost of Wooden longs to return home.

Pardon me if I don't join in the fun.

Okay, this has been getting beyond ludicrous. And here I thought most of us on this board were Purdue engineering graduates, or otherwise had some concept of logic and rationale.

So let me get this straight - some of you would gladly get rid of Matt Painter simply because he has not reached the Elite Eight or Final Four as yet. You know, fire the coach who has won 30 games and has a better career winning percentage than the guy with his name on the floor???

Yeah, that would sure send a message to possible replacements, huh? So have any of you who want to ditch CMP thought about the repercussions of what that would do to the program???

First of all, when you go to hire a replacement - likely someone who has won a lot, but may not be winning at the same or better percentage than Painter - how do you think they would feel about signing up when they know their predecessor was fired after winning 30 games and a higher percentage of games than they had? I mean, no pressure there, huh? Just get to the Final Four, pal, all else will work out!

So we tell them, hey, no worries, just land a top ten recruiting class in your first year and take them to at least an Elite Eight before we extend you, k??? So how long do we give this unicorn coach in his first contract? Four years? Five? Six? I mean, when do we pull the damn plug if we don't get to the third weekend?

Really??? I mean, REALLY?

Okay, so maybe we scare off some top young coaches who might want a little stability for the young families they might be raising. So we go throw some money at someone who HAS won at a higher career percentage than Matt. You know, cause since they already win at a higher percentage, the fact we fired someone for winning at a lesser clip isn't going to let that intimidate them, will it? Good plan, huh?

Well, maybe not. Cause if you think you're going to lure away the likes of Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Calipari, or other Big Name Coach, et al - or even perennial fantasy fav, Billy Donovan, then I want what you are smoking!

But wait, there are more! So who else is there?

Exactly these coaches:
1) Mark Few (Gonzaga)
2) Dave Rose (BYU)
3) Greg Marshall (Wichita State)
4) Jamie Dixon (TCU)
5) Randy Bennett (St. Mary's-CA)
6) Tony Bennett (UVA)

That's it. And of those, only Mark Few and Greg Marshall have been to a Final Four - once, each. Mark Few in his 18th season, and Greg Marshall in his 15th season.

Well, out of those, I think it's safe to say that Mark Few ain't going anywhere. He's been offered Oregon (his alma mater), and Arizona, and he continues to pass. And he just completed his 19th year at Gonzaga. So cross him off.

Likewise, Tony Bennett has been at UVa for 9 years now, and 3 years at Washington State before that, so if he goes somewhere, it would likely be to a bigger fish than Purdue.

Dave Rose and Randy Bennett have been battling Mark Few in the WCC for 13 years and 17 years, respectively. If neither of them have left for greener pastures by now, what makes you think either one will jump at the chance to put a gun to their head at a Purdue program that has had traditional problems recruiting top players?

And Jamie Dixon? Please, really? He has had double-digit losses in 6 of his last seven seasons. Four of his last five teams at Pitt, and with both of his TCU teams. He was a flash in the pan years ago, but hasn't done much since. And more importantly, he has never sniffed a Final Four, and his overall W-L ncaa tourney record is 12-12. Lots of potential there!

Which brings us to Greg Marshall. He's already in his 20th year of coaching, 11 years at Wichita State, and he's already turned down the likes of Alabama and NC State. He wasn't all that interested in the Illinois job, so he is not apparently lusting to duke it out in the B1G, and he did outwardly admit he had wanted the Texas job after Barnes left. Doesn't sound like he'd be all that juiced about Purdue, IMHO. Especially with a "get to the Final Four or else" dictum in his contract.

So where does that leave us?

It leaves us fishing, that's where. Fishing for some young and promising coach who is foolish enough to ignore the fact we fired a coach after winning 30 games and just missed two possible Elite Eights (and Final Fours???) due to the unfortunate timing of injuries. But hey, maybe he is crazy enough to overlook the nuttiness of it all.

But then, maybe not his recruits. Ever thought about that??? As has been so eloquently blathered about ad nauseam in other recent threads, apparently recruits care nothing more than the coach they will be playing for. Okay, so how would they feel about committing to a school where the coach is always on the hot seat after missing the prior Final Four? Do they really want to risk the commitment if their cherished coach-to-be might be fired for some other "hot" coach du jour? I mean, the heady night life in West Lafayette notwithstanding, and the miles of endless and beautiful isolation amidst a scenic sea of cornfields that surround such a Xanadu, I'm thinking that a coach on the perennial hot seat would not be much of an inducement to sign. If you know what I mean.

And finally, what happens when our first savior falls short? You know, like Leon on the gridiron. Do we follow up that act with another "Akers" and "Colletto"? And how did that work out for Nebraska football after they tossed Solich? Was all that red in the stands what the fans were wearing, or from their contorted, angry faces? So do we eventually turn into the basketball version of the Tennessee football dumpster fire? (oh wait, that's right, at least they had a national title in the past 20 years. Oops.) Or maybe we take the scenic route like the IU road through Davis/Sampson/Crean? At least they got a Final Four out of Davis. And I can still see the cherubic glow of satisfaction on their fans' faces to this day! Ahhhh, such memories!

So why not throw out one of the best coaches we've ever had and toss caution to the wind? I mean, who cares if we finish dead last every other year after all of our bought and paid for nba talent bolts for the draft? At least if we get to the holy grail of the Final Four, like Mike Davis did, WHO THE HELL CARES how many damn games we win, anyway?

Well, personally, I do.

So go ahead back to sniffing glue and dreaming your dreams of the Unicorn Coach and the endless third weekends of every March until even the ghost of Wooden longs to return home.

Pardon me if I don't join in the fun.

Excellent write up. Could not have said any better then u did Bob

 

[BBG]

Okay, this has been getting beyond ludicrous. And here I thought most of us on this board were Purdue engineering graduates, or otherwise had some concept of logic and rationale.

So let me get this straight - some of you would gladly get rid of Matt Painter simply because he has not reached the Elite Eight or Final Four as yet. You know, fire the coach who has won 30 games and has a better career winning percentage than the guy with his name on the floor???

Yeah, that would sure send a message to possible replacements, huh? So have any of you who want to ditch CMP thought about the repercussions of what that would do to the program???

First of all, when you go to hire a replacement - likely someone who has won a lot, but may not be winning at the same or better percentage than Painter - how do you think they would feel about signing up when they know their predecessor was fired after winning 30 games and a higher percentage of games than they had? I mean, no pressure there, huh? Just get to the Final Four, pal, all else will work out!

So we tell them, hey, no worries, just land a top ten recruiting class in your first year and take them to at least an Elite Eight before we extend you, k??? So how long do we give this unicorn coach in his first contract? Four years? Five? Six? I mean, when do we pull the damn plug if we don't get to the third weekend?

Really??? I mean, REALLY?

Okay, so maybe we scare off some top young coaches who might want a little stability for the young families they might be raising. So we go throw some money at someone who HAS won at a higher career percentage than Matt. You know, cause since they already win at a higher percentage, the fact we fired someone for winning at a lesser clip isn't going to let that intimidate them, will it? Good plan, huh?

Well, maybe not. Cause if you think you're going to lure away the likes of Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Calipari, or other Big Name Coach, et al - or even perennial fantasy fav, Billy Donovan, then I want what you are smoking!

But wait, there are more! So who else is there?

Exactly these coaches:
1) Mark Few (Gonzaga)
2) Dave Rose (BYU)
3) Greg Marshall (Wichita State)
4) Jamie Dixon (TCU)
5) Randy Bennett (St. Mary's-CA)
6) Tony Bennett (UVA)

That's it. And of those, only Mark Few and Greg Marshall have been to a Final Four - once, each. Mark Few in his 18th season, and Greg Marshall in his 15th season.

Well, out of those, I think it's safe to say that Mark Few ain't going anywhere. He's been offered Oregon (his alma mater), and Arizona, and he continues to pass. And he just completed his 19th year at Gonzaga. So cross him off.

Likewise, Tony Bennett has been at UVa for 9 years now, and 3 years at Washington State before that, so if he goes somewhere, it would likely be to a bigger fish than Purdue.

Dave Rose and Randy Bennett have been battling Mark Few in the WCC for 13 years and 17 years, respectively. If neither of them have left for greener pastures by now, what makes you think either one will jump at the chance to put a gun to their head at a Purdue program that has had traditional problems recruiting top players?

And Jamie Dixon? Please, really? He has had double-digit losses in 6 of his last seven seasons. Four of his last five teams at Pitt, and with both of his TCU teams. He was a flash in the pan years ago, but hasn't done much since. And more importantly, he has never sniffed a Final Four, and his overall W-L ncaa tourney record is 12-12. Lots of potential there!

Which brings us to Greg Marshall. He's already in his 20th year of coaching, 11 years at Wichita State, and he's already turned down the likes of Alabama and NC State. He wasn't all that interested in the Illinois job, so he is not apparently lusting to duke it out in the B1G, and he did outwardly admit he had wanted the Texas job after Barnes left. Doesn't sound like he'd be all that juiced about Purdue, IMHO. Especially with a "get to the Final Four or else" dictum in his contract.

So where does that leave us?

It leaves us fishing, that's where. Fishing for some young and promising coach who is foolish enough to ignore the fact we fired a coach after winning 30 games and just missed two possible Elite Eights (and Final Fours???) due to the unfortunate timing of injuries. But hey, maybe he is crazy enough to overlook the nuttiness of it all.

But then, maybe not his recruits. Ever thought about that??? As has been so eloquently blathered about ad nauseam in other recent threads, apparently recruits care nothing more than the coach they will be playing for. Okay, so how would they feel about committing to a school where the coach is always on the hot seat after missing the prior Final Four? Do they really want to risk the commitment if their cherished coach-to-be might be fired for some other "hot" coach du jour? I mean, the heady night life in West Lafayette notwithstanding, and the miles of endless and beautiful isolation amidst a scenic sea of cornfields that surround such a Xanadu, I'm thinking that a coach on the perennial hot seat would not be much of an inducement to sign. If you know what I mean.

And finally, what happens when our first savior falls short? You know, like Leon on the gridiron. Do we follow up that act with another "Akers" and "Colletto"? And how did that work out for Nebraska football after they tossed Solich? Was all that red in the stands what the fans were wearing, or from their contorted, angry faces? So do we eventually turn into the basketball version of the Tennessee football dumpster fire? (oh wait, that's right, at least they had a national title in the past 20 years. Oops.) Or maybe we take the scenic route like the IU road through Davis/Sampson/Crean? At least they got a Final Four out of Davis. And I can still see the cherubic glow of satisfaction on their fans' faces to this day! Ahhhh, such memories!

So why not throw out one of the best coaches we've ever had and toss caution to the wind? I mean, who cares if we finish dead last every other year after all of our bought and paid for nba talent bolts for the draft? At least if we get to the holy grail of the Final Four, like Mike Davis did, WHO THE HELL CARES how many damn games we win, anyway?

Well, personally, I do.

So go ahead back to sniffing glue and dreaming your dreams of the Unicorn Coach and the endless third weekends of every March until even the ghost of Wooden longs to return home.

Pardon me if I don't join in the fun.

Best.....post......ever.

I literally got chills.

 

[SKYDOG]

Best.....post......ever.

I literally got chills.

Maybe you caught the flu?

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

Best.....post......ever.

I literally got chills.

But are they multiplying?

 

[purduepat1969]

I don’t think either side is being “illogical” in their thinking. It’s all a matter of what you consider success in a program.

One side believes Painter has been successful. You could argue winning 30 games and getting to the Sweet 16 is a successful season for most programs.

The other side is clearly concerned that they haven’t seen the success above translate to a deep tourney run or a national championship.

I think both sides are “logical” depending on what you consider to be success or not. Now I don’t think it’s logical to call for Painter’s Head right now. But for those who believe a FF or National Championship is success, I don’t think it’s beyond logical to question whether Painter is capable of achieving this in the future. I for one certainly hope he can. But I’m not sure I would look back at his tenure and call him a “legendary” coach if he doesn’t deliver on a FF or NC.

 

[tjreese]

I don’t think either side is being “illogical” in their thinking. It’s all a matter of what you consider success in a program.

One side believes Painter has been successful. You could argue winning 30 games and getting to the Sweet 16 is a successful season for most programs.

The other side is clearly concerned that they haven’t seen the success above translate to a deep tourney run or a national championship.

I think both sides are “logical” depending on what you consider to be success or not. Now I don’t think it’s logical to call for Painter’s Head right now. But for those who believe a FF or National Championship is success, I don’t think it’s beyond logical to question whether Painter is capable of achieving this in the future. I for one certainly hope he can. But I’m not sure I would look back at his tenure and call him a “legendary” coach if he doesn’t deliver on a FF or NC.

Can't say I agree. I don't see how anyone can say this year was not successful. I can only understand where some might say that it wasn't successful "ENOUGH"... Other than the two years...all of Matt's teams have been successful and yet none of them have been successful "ENOUGH" for some.

 

[BBG]

But are they multiplying?

I hope not, or I would lose control.

 

[purduepat1969]

Can't say I agree. I don't see how anyone can say this year was not successful. I can only understand where some might say that it wasn't successful "ENOUGH"... Other than the two years...all of Matt's teams have been successful and yet none of them have been successful "ENOUGH" for some.

Again, defining success is relative based on a stated goal. If the goal was to make a deep run in the tournament with a senior laden class, this season wasn’t successful. If the goal was to win 30 games and tie for 2nd in the B1G, then call it a success. It wasn’t a bad season, but I would have thought the goal was to win the Big Ten, which they didn’t. And unfortunately they didn’t make a deep tourney run, which could be explained by the Haas injury.

 

[NVBoilerFan]

I hope not, or I would lose control.

Tell me more.

 

[tjreese]

Again, defining success is relative based on a stated goal. If the goal was to make a deep run in the tournament with a senior laden class, this season wasn’t successful. If the goal was to win 30 games and tie for 2nd in the B1G, then call it a success. It wasn’t a bad season, but I would have thought the goal was to win the Big Ten, which they didn’t. And unfortunately they didn’t make a deep tourney run, which could be explained by the Haas injury.

Well, if you have a stretch goal the chance it will be met is slim. I know what you are saying I just can't imagine how anyone could suggest that this year was not successful...but do understand how some can say it wasn't successful enough whether or not Haas is in play. In any endeavor, I can submit a goal that he or she cannot meet. That is easy to do. Before the season there is nobody that thought this team would win the NC or be final four...as the year went on and the computer numbers calculated things...people thought they could. Maybe it was damn successful to get a team with such high numbers? Almost every year a person would be wise to take the field..it just works that way and so if your team doesn't make it...it was a failure?

It just makes no sense at all. As I said, I understand how someone might draw a conclusion "AFTER" that the season was not successful enough, but it really is a stretch on reality to begin to suggest that it wasn't successful. If we are going down the road of two choices successful and unsuccessful as lines of demarcation the the data that comprise each is determined by a winner and lose since they are the only options when two teams meet...it is only fair to suggest that successful is winning more than unsuccessful teams or winning more than 50% since you only have two outcomes. Now, once you are successful...you may not be successful enough as you say and I fully understand that sentiment.

People that say it is unsuccessful NOW in particular are just projecting hyperbole. People that say it wasn't successful enough may be sincere as you suggest with a different personal goal elevated past success (50%) into a personal expectation or desire...

 

[Wisconsin Boiler]

Okay, this has been getting beyond ludicrous. And here I thought most of us on this board were Purdue engineering graduates, or otherwise had some concept of logic and rationale.

So let me get this straight - some of you would gladly get rid of Matt Painter simply because he has not reached the Elite Eight or Final Four as yet. You know, fire the coach who has won 30 games and has a better career winning percentage than the guy with his name on the floor???

Yeah, that would sure send a message to possible replacements, huh? So have any of you who want to ditch CMP thought about the repercussions of what that would do to the program???

First of all, when you go to hire a replacement - likely someone who has won a lot, but may not be winning at the same or better percentage than Painter - how do you think they would feel about signing up when they know their predecessor was fired after winning 30 games and a higher percentage of games than they had? I mean, no pressure there, huh? Just get to the Final Four, pal, all else will work out!

So we tell them, hey, no worries, just land a top ten recruiting class in your first year and take them to at least an Elite Eight before we extend you, k??? So how long do we give this unicorn coach in his first contract? Four years? Five? Six? I mean, when do we pull the damn plug if we don't get to the third weekend?

Really??? I mean, REALLY?

Okay, so maybe we scare off some top young coaches who might want a little stability for the young families they might be raising. So we go throw some money at someone who HAS won at a higher career percentage than Matt. You know, cause since they already win at a higher percentage, the fact we fired someone for winning at a lesser clip isn't going to let that intimidate them, will it? Good plan, huh?

Well, maybe not. Cause if you think you're going to lure away the likes of Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Calipari, or other Big Name Coach, et al - or even perennial fantasy fav, Billy Donovan, then I want what you are smoking!

But wait, there are more! So who else is there?

Exactly these coaches:
1) Mark Few (Gonzaga)
2) Dave Rose (BYU)
3) Greg Marshall (Wichita State)
4) Jamie Dixon (TCU)
5) Randy Bennett (St. Mary's-CA)
6) Tony Bennett (UVA)

That's it. And of those, only Mark Few and Greg Marshall have been to a Final Four - once, each. Mark Few in his 18th season, and Greg Marshall in his 15th season.

Well, out of those, I think it's safe to say that Mark Few ain't going anywhere. He's been offered Oregon (his alma mater), and Arizona, and he continues to pass. And he just completed his 19th year at Gonzaga. So cross him off.

Likewise, Tony Bennett has been at UVa for 9 years now, and 3 years at Washington State before that, so if he goes somewhere, it would likely be to a bigger fish than Purdue.

Dave Rose and Randy Bennett have been battling Mark Few in the WCC for 13 years and 17 years, respectively. If neither of them have left for greener pastures by now, what makes you think either one will jump at the chance to put a gun to their head at a Purdue program that has had traditional problems recruiting top players?

And Jamie Dixon? Please, really? He has had double-digit losses in 6 of his last seven seasons. Four of his last five teams at Pitt, and with both of his TCU teams. He was a flash in the pan years ago, but hasn't done much since. And more importantly, he has never sniffed a Final Four, and his overall W-L ncaa tourney record is 12-12. Lots of potential there!

Which brings us to Greg Marshall. He's already in his 20th year of coaching, 11 years at Wichita State, and he's already turned down the likes of Alabama and NC State. He wasn't all that interested in the Illinois job, so he is not apparently lusting to duke it out in the B1G, and he did outwardly admit he had wanted the Texas job after Barnes left. Doesn't sound like he'd be all that juiced about Purdue, IMHO. Especially with a "get to the Final Four or else" dictum in his contract.

So where does that leave us?

It leaves us fishing, that's where. Fishing for some young and promising coach who is foolish enough to ignore the fact we fired a coach after winning 30 games and just missed two possible Elite Eights (and Final Fours???) due to the unfortunate timing of injuries. But hey, maybe he is crazy enough to overlook the nuttiness of it all.

But then, maybe not his recruits. Ever thought about that??? As has been so eloquently blathered about ad nauseam in other recent threads, apparently recruits care nothing more than the coach they will be playing for. Okay, so how would they feel about committing to a school where the coach is always on the hot seat after missing the prior Final Four? Do they really want to risk the commitment if their cherished coach-to-be might be fired for some other "hot" coach du jour? I mean, the heady night life in West Lafayette notwithstanding, and the miles of endless and beautiful isolation amidst a scenic sea of cornfields that surround such a Xanadu, I'm thinking that a coach on the perennial hot seat would not be much of an inducement to sign. If you know what I mean.

And finally, what happens when our first savior falls short? You know, like Leon on the gridiron. Do we follow up that act with another "Akers" and "Colletto"? And how did that work out for Nebraska football after they tossed Solich? Was all that red in the stands what the fans were wearing, or from their contorted, angry faces? So do we eventually turn into the basketball version of the Tennessee football dumpster fire? (oh wait, that's right, at least they had a national title in the past 20 years. Oops.) Or maybe we take the scenic route like the IU road through Davis/Sampson/Crean? At least they got a Final Four out of Davis. And I can still see the cherubic glow of satisfaction on their fans' faces to this day! Ahhhh, such memories!

So why not throw out one of the best coaches we've ever had and toss caution to the wind? I mean, who cares if we finish dead last every other year after all of our bought and paid for nba talent bolts for the draft? At least if we get to the holy grail of the Final Four, like Mike Davis did, WHO THE HELL CARES how many damn games we win, anyway?

Well, personally, I do.

So go ahead back to sniffing glue and dreaming your dreams of the Unicorn Coach and the endless third weekends of every March until even the ghost of Wooden longs to return home.

Pardon me if I don't join in the fun.

THANK YOU! Someone with common sense prevails. Fire Painter is already old and continually stupid.

 

[Purdue85]

I didn't say an NC. And with the Haas injury the Final Four was out. But winning a Big Ten Title was within reach.

To brag about the # of wins and streak because there is nothing tangible to recognize this season is participation trophyesque. Great season. Nothing to show for it. Have a juice box and wonder what if.

My disappointment is from the bliwn opportunities to win a Championship.

Bob got it right.

If you'll be honest, candid, transparent (pick your word), there's no way you went into this season legitimately thinking we'd push for national title OR a B1G title.

Yet, we had an incredible run and did exactly that . . . for a time.

It's never enough.

 

[BBG]

Tell me more.

Well it was a summer night

 

[BoilerBiker]

What's up with a dude that starts a thread by stating that anyone that doesn't support Painter is illogical, but explains a prior post that lashed out at the players by saying "I was angry. It happens."?

ya I don't understand the disconnect either.
that's the very thing fans hate when its about painter after games.
very strange.

 

[BoilerBloodline]

1) the guy with his name on the floor never got to a FF either.

Yes you are correct, but Gene began his Purdue career on the heels of Purdue making a Final Four. This undoubtedly soothed the needs of our fans for years to come. When Gene got to year 16-ish, the rumblings grew louder and by his last season, he’d hit the bottom. The team he had on the floor was a bad DII squad, let alone B1G caliber D1 squad. Had the move not been made to bring Painter in, one could make a good case that he could have been let go. Nearly 40 years later, Purdue hasn’t gotten back.

 

[meenie]

Few, Marshall, and Bennett all turned down the IU job.

 

[roundfootball]

Okay, this has been getting beyond ludicrous. And here I thought most of us on this board were Purdue engineering graduates, or otherwise had some concept of logic and rationale.

So let me get this straight - some of you would gladly get rid of Matt Painter simply because he has not reached the Elite Eight or Final Four as yet. You know, fire the coach who has won 30 games and has a better career winning percentage than the guy with his name on the floor???

Yeah, that would sure send a message to possible replacements, huh? So have any of you who want to ditch CMP thought about the repercussions of what that would do to the program???

First of all, when you go to hire a replacement - likely someone who has won a lot, but may not be winning at the same or better percentage than Painter - how do you think they would feel about signing up when they know their predecessor was fired after winning 30 games and a higher percentage of games than they had? I mean, no pressure there, huh? Just get to the Final Four, pal, all else will work out!

So we tell them, hey, no worries, just land a top ten recruiting class in your first year and take them to at least an Elite Eight before we extend you, k??? So how long do we give this unicorn coach in his first contract? Four years? Five? Six? I mean, when do we pull the damn plug if we don't get to the third weekend?

Really??? I mean, REALLY?

Okay, so maybe we scare off some top young coaches who might want a little stability for the young families they might be raising. So we go throw some money at someone who HAS won at a higher career percentage than Matt. You know, cause since they already win at a higher percentage, the fact we fired someone for winning at a lesser clip isn't going to let that intimidate them, will it? Good plan, huh?

Well, maybe not. Cause if you think you're going to lure away the likes of Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Calipari, or other Big Name Coach, et al - or even perennial fantasy fav, Billy Donovan, then I want what you are smoking!

But wait, there are more! So who else is there?

Exactly these coaches:
1) Mark Few (Gonzaga)
2) Dave Rose (BYU)
3) Greg Marshall (Wichita State)
4) Jamie Dixon (TCU)
5) Randy Bennett (St. Mary's-CA)
6) Tony Bennett (UVA)

That's it. And of those, only Mark Few and Greg Marshall have been to a Final Four - once, each. Mark Few in his 18th season, and Greg Marshall in his 15th season.

Well, out of those, I think it's safe to say that Mark Few ain't going anywhere. He's been offered Oregon (his alma mater), and Arizona, and he continues to pass. And he just completed his 19th year at Gonzaga. So cross him off.

Likewise, Tony Bennett has been at UVa for 9 years now, and 3 years at Washington State before that, so if he goes somewhere, it would likely be to a bigger fish than Purdue.

Dave Rose and Randy Bennett have been battling Mark Few in the WCC for 13 years and 17 years, respectively. If neither of them have left for greener pastures by now, what makes you think either one will jump at the chance to put a gun to their head at a Purdue program that has had traditional problems recruiting top players?

And Jamie Dixon? Please, really? He has had double-digit losses in 6 of his last seven seasons. Four of his last five teams at Pitt, and with both of his TCU teams. He was a flash in the pan years ago, but hasn't done much since. And more importantly, he has never sniffed a Final Four, and his overall W-L ncaa tourney record is 12-12. Lots of potential there!

Which brings us to Greg Marshall. He's already in his 20th year of coaching, 11 years at Wichita State, and he's already turned down the likes of Alabama and NC State. He wasn't all that interested in the Illinois job, so he is not apparently lusting to duke it out in the B1G, and he did outwardly admit he had wanted the Texas job after Barnes left. Doesn't sound like he'd be all that juiced about Purdue, IMHO. Especially with a "get to the Final Four or else" dictum in his contract.

So where does that leave us?

It leaves us fishing, that's where. Fishing for some young and promising coach who is foolish enough to ignore the fact we fired a coach after winning 30 games and just missed two possible Elite Eights (and Final Fours???) due to the unfortunate timing of injuries. But hey, maybe he is crazy enough to overlook the nuttiness of it all.

But then, maybe not his recruits. Ever thought about that??? As has been so eloquently blathered about ad nauseam in other recent threads, apparently recruits care nothing more than the coach they will be playing for. Okay, so how would they feel about committing to a school where the coach is always on the hot seat after missing the prior Final Four? Do they really want to risk the commitment if their cherished coach-to-be might be fired for some other "hot" coach du jour? I mean, the heady night life in West Lafayette notwithstanding, and the miles of endless and beautiful isolation amidst a scenic sea of cornfields that surround such a Xanadu, I'm thinking that a coach on the perennial hot seat would not be much of an inducement to sign. If you know what I mean.

And finally, what happens when our first savior falls short? You know, like Leon on the gridiron. Do we follow up that act with another "Akers" and "Colletto"? And how did that work out for Nebraska football after they tossed Solich? Was all that red in the stands what the fans were wearing, or from their contorted, angry faces? So do we eventually turn into the basketball version of the Tennessee football dumpster fire? (oh wait, that's right, at least they had a national title in the past 20 years. Oops.) Or maybe we take the scenic route like the IU road through Davis/Sampson/Crean? At least they got a Final Four out of Davis. And I can still see the cherubic glow of satisfaction on their fans' faces to this day! Ahhhh, such memories!

So why not throw out one of the best coaches we've ever had and toss caution to the wind? I mean, who cares if we finish dead last every other year after all of our bought and paid for nba talent bolts for the draft? At least if we get to the holy grail of the Final Four, like Mike Davis did, WHO THE HELL CARES how many damn games we win, anyway?

Well, personally, I do.

So go ahead back to sniffing glue and dreaming your dreams of the Unicorn Coach and the endless third weekends of every March until even the ghost of Wooden longs to return home.

Pardon me if I don't join in the fun.

tl; dr

But, assuming it talks about why they shouldn't fire Painter.

I don't advocate firing him. It just saddens me that he can't get to the point of a lifetime contract. Unfortunately, this year it was due to injury.

There's always next year. Cubs and Red Sox fans said it enough times to make it work so, why can't we?

 

[BoilerGal74]

I didn't provide my stance one way or another on Painter. No I don't think he should be fired at this point.

My question was, after 23 seasons would you be happy with several sweet 16s, but nothing further? No wrong answers, just curious to hear people's opinions.

If I’m still here to watch another 10 years with CMP I will be thrilled....

 

[Do Dah Day]

If I’m still here to watch another 10 years with CMP I will be thrilled....

Ask your Dr. for some Gameday blood pressure pills.

 

[Purdue85]

Few, Marshall, and Bennett all turned down the IU job.

I didn't keep up with the search and the rumors/reports.

That's interesting.

And, speaks volumes about that program.

 

[cprh9u]

Crean?

Effing CREAN??

Crean was a sh*tty hire. If he had been hired at Purdue, I would have revolted, day 1. He "recruited" a killer class, yet got manhandled in the sweet 16, for goodness sake. Two first round draft picks. It was a moronic hire!

Interesting facts. Crean is 1-3 in S16's with a final 4. Painter is 0-4. In his 3 losses, Crean's average defeat has been 12.67 points. In Painter's 0-4 record, his average defeat has been 17.5. Just interesting that you would talk about Crean getting manhandled. I would probably take CMP over Crean (although Crean has that Final 4 in his pocket) but I don't think CMP is far superior to him at all.

 

[BoilerGrad2001]

Few, Marshall, and Bennett all turned down the IU job.

Are you talking in 2008? This passed search IU gauged Stevens and Donovan's interest and then moved onto Miller.

 

[Do Dah Day]

I didn't keep up with the search and the rumors/reports.

That's interesting.

And, speaks volumes about that program.

Or about them as coaches. or both ... but I suspect those are pretty good guys. It's been said that Few loves where he is.

 

[MilwaukeeBoilerFan]

Okay, this has been getting beyond ludicrous. And here I thought most of us on this board were Purdue engineering graduates, or otherwise had some concept of logic and rationale.

So let me get this straight - some of you would gladly get rid of Matt Painter simply because he has not reached the Elite Eight or Final Four as yet. You know, fire the coach who has won 30 games and has a better career winning percentage than the guy with his name on the floor???

Yeah, that would sure send a message to possible replacements, huh? So have any of you who want to ditch CMP thought about the repercussions of what that would do to the program???

First of all, when you go to hire a replacement - likely someone who has won a lot, but may not be winning at the same or better percentage than Painter - how do you think they would feel about signing up when they know their predecessor was fired after winning 30 games and a higher percentage of games than they had? I mean, no pressure there, huh? Just get to the Final Four, pal, all else will work out!

So we tell them, hey, no worries, just land a top ten recruiting class in your first year and take them to at least an Elite Eight before we extend you, k??? So how long do we give this unicorn coach in his first contract? Four years? Five? Six? I mean, when do we pull the damn plug if we don't get to the third weekend?

Really??? I mean, REALLY?

Okay, so maybe we scare off some top young coaches who might want a little stability for the young families they might be raising. So we go throw some money at someone who HAS won at a higher career percentage than Matt. You know, cause since they already win at a higher percentage, the fact we fired someone for winning at a lesser clip isn't going to let that intimidate them, will it? Good plan, huh?

Well, maybe not. Cause if you think you're going to lure away the likes of Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Calipari, or other Big Name Coach, et al - or even perennial fantasy fav, Billy Donovan, then I want what you are smoking!

But wait, there are more! So who else is there?

Exactly these coaches:
1) Mark Few (Gonzaga)
2) Dave Rose (BYU)
3) Greg Marshall (Wichita State)
4) Jamie Dixon (TCU)
5) Randy Bennett (St. Mary's-CA)
6) Tony Bennett (UVA)

That's it. And of those, only Mark Few and Greg Marshall have been to a Final Four - once, each. Mark Few in his 18th season, and Greg Marshall in his 15th season.

Well, out of those, I think it's safe to say that Mark Few ain't going anywhere. He's been offered Oregon (his alma mater), and Arizona, and he continues to pass. And he just completed his 19th year at Gonzaga. So cross him off.

Likewise, Tony Bennett has been at UVa for 9 years now, and 3 years at Washington State before that, so if he goes somewhere, it would likely be to a bigger fish than Purdue.

Dave Rose and Randy Bennett have been battling Mark Few in the WCC for 13 years and 17 years, respectively. If neither of them have left for greener pastures by now, what makes you think either one will jump at the chance to put a gun to their head at a Purdue program that has had traditional problems recruiting top players?

And Jamie Dixon? Please, really? He has had double-digit losses in 6 of his last seven seasons. Four of his last five teams at Pitt, and with both of his TCU teams. He was a flash in the pan years ago, but hasn't done much since. And more importantly, he has never sniffed a Final Four, and his overall W-L ncaa tourney record is 12-12. Lots of potential there!

Which brings us to Greg Marshall. He's already in his 20th year of coaching, 11 years at Wichita State, and he's already turned down the likes of Alabama and NC State. He wasn't all that interested in the Illinois job, so he is not apparently lusting to duke it out in the B1G, and he did outwardly admit he had wanted the Texas job after Barnes left. Doesn't sound like he'd be all that juiced about Purdue, IMHO. Especially with a "get to the Final Four or else" dictum in his contract.

So where does that leave us?

It leaves us fishing, that's where. Fishing for some young and promising coach who is foolish enough to ignore the fact we fired a coach after winning 30 games and just missed two possible Elite Eights (and Final Fours???) due to the unfortunate timing of injuries. But hey, maybe he is crazy enough to overlook the nuttiness of it all.

But then, maybe not his recruits. Ever thought about that??? As has been so eloquently blathered about ad nauseam in other recent threads, apparently recruits care nothing more than the coach they will be playing for. Okay, so how would they feel about committing to a school where the coach is always on the hot seat after missing the prior Final Four? Do they really want to risk the commitment if their cherished coach-to-be might be fired for some other "hot" coach du jour? I mean, the heady night life in West Lafayette notwithstanding, and the miles of endless and beautiful isolation amidst a scenic sea of cornfields that surround such a Xanadu, I'm thinking that a coach on the perennial hot seat would not be much of an inducement to sign. If you know what I mean.

And finally, what happens when our first savior falls short? You know, like Leon on the gridiron. Do we follow up that act with another "Akers" and "Colletto"? And how did that work out for Nebraska football after they tossed Solich? Was all that red in the stands what the fans were wearing, or from their contorted, angry faces? So do we eventually turn into the basketball version of the Tennessee football dumpster fire? (oh wait, that's right, at least they had a national title in the past 20 years. Oops.) Or maybe we take the scenic route like the IU road through Davis/Sampson/Crean? At least they got a Final Four out of Davis. And I can still see the cherubic glow of satisfaction on their fans' faces to this day! Ahhhh, such memories!

So why not throw out one of the best coaches we've ever had and toss caution to the wind? I mean, who cares if we finish dead last every other year after all of our bought and paid for nba talent bolts for the draft? At least if we get to the holy grail of the Final Four, like Mike Davis did, WHO THE HELL CARES how many damn games we win, anyway?

Well, personally, I do.

So go ahead back to sniffing glue and dreaming your dreams of the Unicorn Coach and the endless third weekends of every March until even the ghost of Wooden longs to return home.

Pardon me if I don't join in the fun.

Are you the same guy who did the math equation for throw the damn ball back in about 2004/05? If so, that was a masterpiece and my compliments to you.

 

[Glock33boiler]

Here is the short answer.

We have been very successful under CMP, but not as successful as we hope to be. The difference between Gold and Silver in the Olympics.

 

[Purdue85]

Interesting facts. Crean is 1-3 in S16's with a final 4. Painter is 0-4. In his 3 losses, Crean's average defeat has been 12.67 points. In Painter's 0-4 record, his average defeat has been 17.5. Just interesting that you would talk about Crean getting manhandled. I would probably take CMP over Crean (although Crean has that Final 4 in his pocket) but I don't think CMP is far superior to him at all.

I don't recall seeing someone make an argument Painter was a "far superior to him at all".

Go back and look at the context, and what generated the response.

Crean a horrible hire.

 

[Purdue85]

Interesting facts. Crean is 1-3 in S16's with a final 4. Painter is 0-4. In his 3 losses, Crean's average defeat has been 12.67 points. In Painter's 0-4 record, his average defeat has been 17.5. Just interesting that you would talk about Crean getting manhandled. I would probably take CMP over Crean (although Crean has that Final 4 in his pocket) but I don't think CMP is far superior to him at all.

On second look, it's interesting you failed to cite the most relevant statistics.

At IU Crean was 166-135.

At Purdue Painter is 295-149.

Wow. I honestly didn't know Crean was that horrible at IU.

But, back to the point: You can take the guy with the miserable record, and I'll take the guy with the record that's . . . uh, did you use the term, "far superior"? We can use that, if you like.

 

[billy jack]

Thanks for the post Bob. Seems to me we are in a good place with the basketball program. It seems like we have good assistant coaches and the A.D. is doing a good job.

 

[cprh9u]

To the OP and all those who are very happy with Painter:

I think CMP is a slightly above average coach. Give any slightly above average B1G coach 13 years at a B1G school with solid tradition and they better come up with 2 league championships and a handful of S16's. At many schools they would need more than that, but I certainly agree since Painter has made it to year 13 and just had 30 wins and a S16 appearance, you don't fire him (unless you are UK or KU or UNC, etc.).

Thad Matta seems like a good comparison. He was a solid basketball coach in the same conference in the same region of the country. OSU was nothing special before he arrived, having appeared in 3 straight championship games from 1960-1962, but doing little of note since. Matta coached 13 years, same as CMP. Here is the comparison:

Overall Record- Matta 337–123 (.733). Painter 295–149 (.664)
NCAA Appearances- Matta 9 our of 13 years. Painter 10 out of 13 years
B1G championships- Matta 5. Painter 2.
Elite 8/Final 4's- Matta 3/2. Painter 0/0.

Bottom line, is it such a horrible thing to have Gene Keady 2.0 in Painter? Nope, it could be worse. But why not try to find our Matta, who was given more money after some success at Butler/Xavier or look for our Beilein, hired away from WVU and who in year 11 has 2 more Final 4's and 3 more Elite 8's than CMP, not to mention a shot at a championship this weekend.

I agree with many others, that we will LIKELY look up 20 years from now and have a few more sweet 16's, 2-3 more league championships, and maybe one wild ride to a Elite 8 somewhere and CMP will retire as a Purdue "legend". I think at this point he is who we've known him to be. Solid but not great recruiter, not overly innovative, but just solid and steady. Will get a great player or a really good team every once in a while, but can't tack together multiple top tier players or classes (See Baby Boilers or Biggie). And all of the above is good enough for many on here. Good for you. As a fan, I would like to see more. As a fan, I will voice that until we try. You can hate me for it, but I would just like to see more. This is a forum to voice that opinion, just like it's a forum for many of you to profess your loyalty and appreciation of CMP. Have a wonderful Easter weekend.

 

[rjmpu82]

Getting to the Final Four takes a little luck. Winning a national championship takes more.