Painter ....does he stay or go without a FF ?
- Thread starter Bleedinggoldandblack
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Europe and scrimmage....plus practice reports.....I watched furst last year, he wouldn't even shoot against fdu, he had no confidence....tkr was inconsistent, same with Gillis.....we'll need some shooting from our 4 and heide is a possibility there....heide will have a hard time beating out Waddell, Colvin, and Jones at the 3 so the 4 may be his best opportunity for pt....
I hope you’re right my friend. Honestly I hope they all shoot the hell out of the ball and am all for playing whoever can consistently shoot it at a high-level. Mason being hurt most of the year may have contributed to it but we can’t afford another year where he is our best shooter at the four if he can’t improve his overall percentage and get more consistent.
Would love to see him stay healthy and put together a really solid senior year but more importantly, would love to see any one of those guys break out.
Cam is undersized for the four not to mention the fact that the four is more of a logjam than the three.
use extreme caution drawing conclusions from the Europe trip. Withou Zack, and without true game day prep, what we saw may have little to no bearing on what we see in the season.
Yet you ignore the fact that ALL those events have raved about TKR, his shooting, and his range. ?
Jones won't be playing any 3.
How well did our size work in the tournament?....fdu beat us because they were a lot faster than we were, pressed us, and we couldn't shoot well...if heide can shoot, then he has to play there....Waddell and Colvin are more guard like and that's what we play at the 3...heide is a good rebounder (12 boards in the scrimmage), can handle the ball too...you remember the press worked well against us last year because furst, tkr, and Gillis are not comfortable handling the ball in the open court....not saying heide will play a ton of minutes at the 4 but we need him there some for that occasion....
Jones started at the 3 in one game in Europe...we'll need him there some....but Waddell and Colvin will play most of the minutes there....as for tkr, I'll believe it when I see it at the 4...he isn't fast....our 4s have to guard quicker players on switches....tkr also scored most of his points in the post, that won't be easy with Zach there...his shooting looked better, but that was on low volume....furst can't shoot consistently from 3 so that makes it tough for him to play the 4 next to Zach too...I see the 2 best options at the 4 with Zach are Gillis and heide....heide can really rebound and he's fast in a straight line vs being laterally quick....that works well with our typical 4s that we have....he reminds me of Wheeler....just saying when we play faster, more athletic teams, we'll need heide at the 4....mark it down....
Haven't there been arrests in a couple of the past offseasons? Kline and Gillis
Until the players can consistently shoot well in actual games, you don't have good shooters.
Sure, they might win a 3 pt contest or hit 10 in a row during warm ups but if they don't do it when it counts, it doesn't matter.
I don't know if 'to name a few' is a fair classification in that it implies that there have been many and this is just a small sampling. Completely agree that there have been guys who have gotten into trouble but relatively speaking, this program is squeaky clean.
For the vast majority of guys who have gotten in trouble it's happened once and didn't happen again.
Did Lewis Jackson serve time for drug charges after he graduated? I know that he was pulled over in 2017 with a large amount of illegal drugs.
Lets hope he's still playing then. He looks/sounds fragile to me. If everyone else that can shoot it, does, we don't need our 4 shooting 3's. Colvin will be a 2 I think. Waddell and Heide and some Colvin at 3. Everyone started on the Euro trip.
75 grams of Heroin, very nice.....
I didn't see what he actually ended up serving, but he was sentenced to 6 years in prison, and some sort of plea that put him in a program to serve very little of that sentence. Loved him as a player, but this was not good.
Decatur basketball star sentenced to prison, recommended for “impact incarceration”
Former Decatur high school and Purdue University basketball star Lewis Jackson was sentenced to six years in p...
www.decaturradio.com
and none of them are violent thugs like Izzo’s band of prison yard ballers…
Yeah we need everyone shooting 3's or they will double Zach all game....that's why playing Morton hurts our offense, he can't drive or shoot.....defenses know that and they'll play off him...Colvin better work on his ball handling to play the 2....you need another release player with braden/Jones for pressing teams....true we had lots of starting lineups but we did play significant minutes with the 3 guard lineup....loyer, Smith, Jones.....Lets hope he's still playing then. He looks/sounds fragile to me. If everyone else that can shoot it, does, we don't need our 4 shooting 3's. Colvin will be a 2 I think. Waddell and Heide and some Colvin at 3. Everyone started on the Euro trip.
But to be fair, if I am a good person who shows up to my job everyday and treats people kindly , but can't do my job well, will I be aloud to stay? I know there is the debate of just how much Painter has accomplished and what seems fitting for him to stay, or if he keeps failing in the big dance, should there be consequences to that? I actually just had a post about this on facebook this past week and asked for everyones opinions how much rope do you think a kind coach gets? I love Painter myself and wish him the best and want him to succeed, I just don't know if he would last anywhere else. Also, I have stated other places, that everyone has a different take on "success" . Many think we are fine with what we have accomplished and others want more.
Agree to that. If you look at the history of MSU, they have had a lot of players in trouble.
Some good points, but will wait and see on Trey at the 4. As of now he has to prove he is better behind the arc and his FT shooting has to get better and quit hitting the back of the rim. As mentioned by many...the D is the bigger concern. That said, I'm unsure that Zack is going to be a problem for Trey. It would be if Trey's total game was driving the ball, which I wish he would do more. However, he can operate at the mid to high post and has shown an ability to get deep into the lane for his jump hook. Zack's man isn't going to double Trey and leave Zack open for a lob at the rim should the D come too early or even if Zack has the ball. Should Zack be successful going out to mid and high post as a threat...that too makes Trey much more effective. "IF" they can play side by side effectively, they will put a tremendous amount of pressure on the inside of opposing teams that probably lack depth in effective defenders for Zack and Trey as well as getting into the bonus early, which then makes everyone's drive more effective. Seeing the different skills and growth in players is one of the things I really enjoy
The question always comes up of "Can we do better than Painter?"
That always illicits lively debate because some people believe we can't do any better than Painter. And then the inevitable "Well, who would you hire!" questions come out from the Painter loyalists .
MSU basketball and football programs. Then of course their gymnastics doctor. Penn State had a longtime assistant football coach who got in a bit of trouble. Nebraska's Lawrence Phillips, TOSU's Art Schlichter and Maurice Clarett, Florida's Aaron Hernandez (Who was his coach there again?) ... At least TOSU can boast Jeffrey Dahmer went there.
Well, if you give me the authority to make the hire, I'll happily do so.
But, what's more entertaining is when someone asks "who" and they get provided a list of potentials, people lose their $hit, screaming "HE'D NEVER COME TO PURDUE!". (which of course, nobody knows because nobody here has had that conversation with the candidate and his agent).
You have drug us through this nonsense at least 12 or13 times on this board. At least twice or three times every year. Please find some other amusement. Perhaps you should take up twiddle-winks or crocheting?
I really hope this is a troll attempt as that may be the worst analogy I’ve ever heard. Matt Painter is nationally recognized for doing his job exceptionally well. His peers are on record as being amazed at the job that he does at a program in Purdue that is generally considered to be a middle of the pack Big10 job.
The vast majority of programs in the country would kill for the success that Purdue has had under Painter. Clearly the last three losses in the NCAAT have been frustrating and Purdue needs to do better, but an analogy suggesting that Painter ‘isn’t good at his job’ is beyond ridiculous.
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I agree that the question of ‘who would you hire?’ is a waste of time. I also think that your question of ‘can we do better?’ is the wrong one. In my opinion, the right question is ‘how likely are we to do better’?
Is it possible to hire someone who will have more NCAA tournament success than Painter? Absolutely. Who would that person be? I have no idea and in reality no one does. Sure fire hires flame out all the time and Hall of Famer’s seemingly come out of nowhere.
This is pure speculation on my end, but I’d suggest the Purdue would have a 20% or less chance of hiring someone better than Painter, a 20% chance of hiring someone who achieves the same level of success and a 60% chance of hiring someone who causes the program to regress. I don’t like those odds and I don’t like the idea of ending up in the IU cycle of continuously, looking for the next great thing.
I'm goal oriented. My goal is to hit 20 times.You have drug us through this nonsense at least 12 or13 times on this board. At least twice or three times every year. Please find some other amusement. Perhaps you should take up twiddle-winks or crocheting?
I don't buy your argument that Purdue is a middle of the pack B10 job.
We have the most B10 championships, the best home court in the conf and top 2 in college bball.
We have a great arena that people love coming to.
We have a supportive admin willing to spend $.
What am I missing?
You’re missing the fact that everything is relative. Given the support and approach to athletics it is inarguably easier to win at.IU, Michigan, MSU and OSU than it is at Purdue. I think Maryland and Illinois also fall into that category although the line is not as clear.
Middle of the pack may be a bit of hyperbole because it’s certainly a top half of the Big Ten job, but no one outside of certain delusional Purdue fans think that this is a top 10 or 15 job nationally. Again here I am talking about the job, not where the program currently sits, which for better or worse is attributable to Matt, Painter.
Even the players in Indiana from this lower population state have four programs to choose...IU, Notre Dame, Butler and Purdue whereas a state like Ohio has OSU for the most part. Matt has taken the program upward a lot since Purdue started paying him and the other coaches better. Right now, there is nothing to suggest that Purdue will not be really good for several years. Hopefully for those desiring better production in March...it is on the way. There are some new players and hopefully the confidence grows and the players respond as they are capable. Some players are not bothered by a miss while others are. We shall see, but I'm bullish on Purdue even if NIL is not a recruiting tool.
One of (maybe THE) problems we've had in our tourney frustrations has been an over-reliance on a very few guys that we NEED to have good/big games to beat good teams. And when they don't, or are injured, or get taken out of the game by a total focus of the opponents defense, we haven't had "other options" to pick up the slack, and make some of those wide open jumpers that we get. Including last year when they took Zack out of the game and nobody else was capable or seemed to want the ball when things were getting tense. With a year to think about it and grow, I think the returnee's will be better this time. But mainly I think we'll have a lot more scoring options on the floor that are going to be capable of having that good game and picking up the slack when our stars are having a mediocre game.
Yes, all that remains to be proven....but Smith and Loyer ARE Ballers, and they won't take last year lying down.
Colvin looks like he's ready to be a 3d or 4th option right now and Heide and Waddell will make enough 3's to make teams guard them too.
It just takes one to step forward and be successful to help others along. The youth has more confidence than many in the past. The mental is 4:1 . We also see it in play when missing FTs becomes contagious
What would make it a top 10-15 job?
Coaches salary? Painter is 21st on the pay list.
Who Is the Highest-Paid Men's College Basketball Coach?
Who Is the highest-paid men's college basketball coach? It is Kentucky's John Calipari, who has been with the program for 14 years.
frontofficesports.com
I think an argument can be made for overall budget of the program. I wonder what MBobs response is in terms of recognizing that it takes money/investment to win or have a sustainable winning program (which we have, we just don't have the tourney success to show for it. Which might be fine with the athletic administration in their view the tourney success is gravy but a full Mackey is the priority).
March Madness 2023: Top Seeds Among Tournament’s Highest Spenders
Two top-seeded teams will begin their title defense this week when the NCAA basketball tournaments tip off. Houston, Purdue, Alabama—which earned its first-ever No. 1 overall seed—and reigning cham…
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Oh, Iv'
Did you not see in my post that success is measured differently? Some think we haven't had success, because we haven't done well in the tourney as of late. No it's not a troll attempt. I have been a fan since I was 16 and I am 51 now. I like to see where people are with their frustrations and expectations. That is why this is a forum and I can ask what I want. If you are a Painter "loyalist" that is fine, but there are people on the other end that have a different take.
Can’t recall a lot when Mick coached Cincy. When they played Purdue he had a good 5 that was quickly disqualified and his replacement was more of an Ian Standback with a bit more offense and AJ relaxed when their 5 went out and so Purdue held no advantage. That was a key to the game. I do think Mick may have ran a 2-2-1 a little, but it was the sub for their 5 man that hurt Purdue
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You can absolutely ask whatever you want and hold whatever view you like. It doesn't take a 'Painter Loyalist' to recognize that any analogy that says that Painter 'isn't good at his job' is laughable by any objective measure. I don't mean that as an insult to you, I just think you chose a very bad analogy.
That’s a great question. I don’t know the answer other than winning at the lightest level, which sort of becomes a circular argument.
Still there are those out there that think he should be out just from not doing well in the big dance. Just read through the posts and you will see that. When you disagree with that, it is just your opinion at that point and others have theirs. I am in the middle with him. I like him, but he does fall short in March most years with great talent.
