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Israeli aid tied to cuts....WDC Establishment Freaks

Malcolm X died in 1968. Helms, Thurmond, and others changed parties after that. Try again.
So are you implying that Helms, Thurmond or any others changed parties not because of several disagreements at the time with a party, but they wanted to be in a racist party? As you may know Senator Byrd (a democrat) had been criticized for his membership in the KKK and rightfully so, but he was also aware of what what was going on in the math world. So even though Byrd later said it was a mistake belonging to the KKK, there were other areas he was right and that was recognizing what was going on in education. Although I wish he hadn't belonged to the KKK and although I wouldn't condemn the democrat party just because he belonged to the KKK (how would I judge one different than a platform for the party? The democrats never had a platform back then promoting the KKK and neither did the republicans. Neither part promoted a platform as such back then. Course that isn't the case today. I have no idea how old you are or if you have any background in some of the education wars, but here is an article of what I mentioned about Byrd in 1997. Can't find as much about it today since the is how the Internet works, but years ago it was easy to read the whole speech and now much of that is buried .

 
Nice narrative, but totally false and easily provable by actual results. You're lying to yourself.

Dude, you're so damn delusional. The reality is that Dems have been using the weak voting laws to cheat for decades. There's very well known accounts of this in mayoral elections in Chicago, Philly, etc. We even linked the most recent cases of voter fraud using mail in ballots. It was Democrats doing it. Face it. Democrats and cheating goes hand in hand. THAT's what the voter ID laws were to go after. This narrative about blacks not having I.D. to vote is bullshit. Never has been a thing. In fact, blacks when questioned about it say they think it's racist that someone thought they were unable to have an I.D.

It's also totally bullshit that blacks in inner cities didn't have I.D. until the supposed "voter suppression" laws were passed. Seriously, what a stupid take. Here's what inner city black people think of voter I.D. laws.



Note, that it's only the white liberals that say voter I.D. is racist. Where are they getting these ideas? Hmm. Maybe it's the lying media and the Dem party.

The REALITY is that most blacks have been in support of voter I.D. laws. Now run along and get your next response from your Liberal hive mind.

I’ve said this a long time ago. Voter ID of itself is not the issue. Myself and most folks don’t mind showing ID when voting. The issue is the timing of when the voter ID laws were enacted. The first wave of the voter ID laws started right after Obama was elected. The republicans did not like that a black man won the election and wanted to make sure that it did not happen again. Out of all of the prior elections, have an ID was not an issue. But now all of a sudden since blacks overwhelmingly voted for Obama it is an issue. The following article shows that was the strategy.

Then after that they went after Sunday voting knowing that blacks enjoy voting on Sundays after church. I remember people calling it “Souls to the polls”. They tried it again on GA after 2020 but got so much push back they changed their minds but kept in the other new voting restrictions like mail in, absentee, removing drop boxes from urban areas, increasing drop boxes in rural areas, etc

As far as your video. I told y’all earlier that voter ID has become a non-issue several years ago. Black churches, social media, and talk radio has motivated folks to get IDs, register folks to vote, and then vote. What they did after the 2020 election was to change voting rules that affected all democrats. Rules that mostly democrats enjoy like mail in, early voting, drop boxes etc.

The bottom line in all of this is yes, there is cheating in all elections. Nothing is full proof. But there is absolutely NO widespread voting fraud even in Chicago. The percent of voting fraud over the decades is something like 0.0001%.
 
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I’ve said this a long time ago. Voter ID of itself is not the issue. Myself and most folks don’t mind showing ID when voting. The issue is the timing of when the voter ID laws were enacted. The first wave of the voter ID laws started right after Obama was elected. The republicans did not like that a black man won the election and wanted to make sure that it did not happen again. Out of all of the prior elections, have an ID was not an issue. But now all of a sudden since blacks overwhelmingly voted for Obama it is an issue. The following article shows that was the strategy.

Then after that they went after Sunday voting knowing that blacks enjoy voting on Sundays after church. I remember people calling it “Souls to the polls”. They tried it again on GA after 2020 but got so much push back they changed their minds but kept in the other new voting restrictions like mail in, absentee, removing drop boxes from urban areas, increasing drop boxes in rural areas, etc

As far as your video. I told y’all earlier that voter ID has become a non-issue several years ago. Black churches, social media, and talk radio has motivated folks to get IDs, register folks to vote, and then vote. What they did after the 2020 election was to change voting rules that affected all democrats. Rules that mostly democrats enjoy like mail in, early voting, drop boxes etc.

The bottom line in all of this is yes, there is cheating in all elections. Nothing is full proof. But there is absolutely NO widespread voting fraud even in Chicago. The percent of voting fraud over the decades is something like 0.0001%.
Dude, we've been round and round with this bullshit. You've brought up this timing thing before and it doesn't fit your narrative. Sorry. You're wrong.

LMAO!! Yes, voter I.D. helps Republicans win because Democrats can't cheat. Funny how that works.

You're good at following the narrative. Good lemming.
 
I’ve said this a long time ago. Voter ID of itself is not the issue. Myself and most folks don’t mind showing ID when voting. The issue is the timing of when the voter ID laws were enacted. The first wave of the voter ID laws started right after Obama was elected. The republicans did not like that a black man won the election and wanted to make sure that it did not happen again. Out of all of the prior elections, have an ID was not an issue. But now all of a sudden since blacks overwhelmingly voted for Obama it is an issue. The following article shows that was the strategy.

Then after that they went after Sunday voting knowing that blacks enjoy voting on Sundays after church. I remember people calling it “Souls to the polls”. They tried it again on GA after 2020 but got so much push back they changed their minds but kept in the other new voting restrictions like mail in, absentee, removing drop boxes from urban areas, increasing drop boxes in rural areas, etc

As far as your video. I told y’all earlier that voter ID has become a non-issue several years ago. Black churches, social media, and talk radio has motivated folks to get IDs, register folks to vote, and then vote. What they did after the 2020 election was to change voting rules that affected all democrats. Rules that mostly democrats enjoy like mail in, early voting, drop boxes etc.

The bottom line in all of this is yes, there is cheating in all elections. Nothing is full proof. But there is absolutely NO widespread voting fraud even in Chicago. The percent of voting fraud over the decades is something like 0.0001%.
This must be the 0.0001%

 
@BNIBoiler @RDUBoiler

But I personally think looking at presidential elections is very limited. We know people blame gerrymandering and suppression for all sorts of turnouts.

So let’s look at congressional results.
main-qimg-d612814c5d52da5c066c632cf3a0c402-pjlq

1960 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia
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1964 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia
main-qimg-2e3a33b9c8e837eff9a42082a98f3efe-pjlq

1968 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia
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1974 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia
main-qimg-2ebeff7264b562526d90fcbeb3b71b8d

1976 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia
main-qimg-a585b9ff5d735df2025d198301f6a7be

1980 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia
main-qimg-17d25ca2541995e749bac5eb3ce994a0

1984 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia
main-qimg-3fa7d1b4ec9d57efc81dc94a48f56fd1

1988 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia

Let me pause here… notice that we are now in 1988 and the Democrats still control the entirety of the South and in no election we’ve seen has that changed.

Let’s keep going.
main-qimg-95f07f9afab821a6bab9670953cae300

1992 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia
main-qimg-fe3a6cfa7b8bc46c954d71d166079662-pjlq

1996 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia
main-qimg-d4dbbee0c6ed478a22fc1d5ecbd0d67b-pjlq

2000 United States House of Representatives elections - Wikipedia

Look at that. It isn’t until 1996 that we see the Republicans take over the South in congress!

But wait! There's more!

Let’s do governorship. Let’s look at the early 1970s, enough time for parties to “switch”.

1970 Alabama gubernatorial election - Wikipedia

1970 Arkansas gubernatorial election - Wikipedia

1970 Georgia gubernatorial election - Wikipedia

1970 Louisiana Governor John McKeithen - Wikipedia

1972 Mississippi Governor John Bell Williams - Wikipedia

1973 Missouri Governor Warren E. Hearnes - Wikipedia

1972 North Carolina gubernatorial election - Wikipedia

1970 South Carolina gubernatorial election - Wikipedia

1970 Texas gubernatorial election - Wikipedia

1970 Tennessee gubernatorial election - Wikipedia

1970 Virginia Governor Mills Godwin - Wikipedia

All but two remained Democrat.

The whole idea and premise is wrong.

I’m not going to do the Senate, because I think you get the idea:
1960 United States Senate elections - Wikipedia

But you can go through them yourself and see that the pattern is the same.

This idea that the south switched Republican after 1964 is false and it’s dishonest. And what’s worse, is that it’s perpetuated despite easily accessible information proving that the premise is wrong.
Factual data not based upon opinion (racist/insurgents etc.), but results without biased opinion in clear view should carry a lot of weight and probably would with the right audience to reverse a repeated lie. However, we see the repeated lies a LOT in the media today.

Thank you for the effort to clarify positions of parties over the years. Today, it is clear that the most sexist and racist party is the "progressive" (what a misuse of the word) party as they continually try to divide the American people into victims and victors and push Intersectionality. Having lived when MLK walked the USA cities and having a brother-in-law that placed into Ohio schools a MLK holiday LONG before it became fashionable I can say with clear conscious and accuracy that racism and sexism is more widespread today under the "progressive" party than anytime every person that reads this forum has lived.
 
Factual data not based upon opinion (racist/insurgents etc.), but results without biased opinion in clear view should carry a lot of weight and probably would with the right audience to reverse a repeated lie. However, we see the repeated lies a LOT in the media today.

Thank you for the effort to clarify positions of parties over the years. Today, it is clear that the most sexist and racist party is the "progressive" (what a misuse of the word) party as they continually try to divide the American people into victims and victors and push Intersectionality. Having lived when MLK walked the USA cities and having a brother-in-law that placed into Ohio schools a MLK holiday LONG before it became fashionable I can say with clear conscious and accuracy that racism and sexism is more widespread today under the "progressive" party than anytime every person that reads this forum has lived.
So what is racist with the progressives? Also, knowing the conservatives are the ones flying confederate flags in front of their homes and on the back windshield of trucks. And fight to keep confederate statues up. Also, not supporting any agenda that is black oriented. Aren’t they racist for those things?
 
Isn't that statement racist in itself??

I cannot imagine an agenda that is for a skin color that wouldn't be??

Like I say, you do not realize how racist you sound......
Affirmative action, John Lewis Voting Rights Bill, Police Reform Bill, money to black farmers, anti-lynching bill and more are black issues that republicans have voted against. My statement is not racist.
 
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So what is racist with the progressives? Also, knowing the conservatives are the ones flying confederate flags in front of their homes and on the back windshield of trucks. And fight to keep confederate statues up. Also, not supporting any agenda that is black oriented. Aren’t they racist for those things?
Having a confederate flag or statues up are not racist. You may want to interpret it that way, but that doesn't mean it is racist. There are blacks that have confederate flags. There is a whole lot of history in that civil war. A high estimation of slave owners in the south would be 26% meaning 3/4 were not slave owners. You already know there were slave owners in the north and you are aware there were black slave owners.

Racism happens when you treat someone different "ONLY" due to their race as is being a sexist. The interpretation of such may or may not be accurately guessed in what lies in the mind. People that promote such not only create problems, but generally many times make some profit for such...because they really don't want peace as it serves them no purpose. Intersectionality absolutely is a foundation for such and it is and has been a platform of the progressives for some time. When Harvard denies well accomplished Asians admittance and fills that spot with someone much less deserving, that is racism. You don't hear a lot about racism towards Asians. That in itself should cause pause?

When someone is searching for a given race or sex for a job, for a position, for advancement that is racist or sexist. Once you stray obviously away from merit or publicly state you are going to appoint a black woman you have stated that you are not searching for the the best person, but someone that is black with is racist and discriminatory as well as being sexist. Had there not been countless other examples of people in position based upon gender and such and he not said what he did there could be a debate about his intentions. If she ends up being very disserving, he did her no favor by stating what he was looking for in appointing someone on race and sex rather than a long pedigree of depth in substance.

All this is not only a political attempt to garner votes, but it is pushed by pretending that non-equal outcomes have merit in sex or race and anyone with children knows they are not equal in all things and that is under the most similar environment possible. Equality of outcome is a farce, but equality of opportunity as much as possible like choice in school is not. Today racism and sexism lives inside the heart of every person that knowingly voted for the promotion of Intersectionality. You want to respect MLK, judge people by their character, not their color. The generally implied pay gap between sexes is a myth that only entertains those lacking much thought...obviously unaware of sources of variation that contribute the difference.
 
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So what is racist with the progressives? Also, knowing the conservatives are the ones flying confederate flags in front of their homes and on the back windshield of trucks. And fight to keep confederate statues up. Also, not supporting any agenda that is black oriented. Aren’t they racist for those things?
tjreese said it pretty well. You need to think of racism on it's definition, not how it's posed to you today. The Left constantly says things like, the Right is racist because they don't support Affirmative action. No, that's not racist. Apposing AF means that everyone has equal opportunity. That's literally the opposite of racism. Yet you're taught to think that if minorities aren't getting a leg up, then it's racist. The thought process is backwards.
 
tjreese said it pretty well. You need to think of racism on it's definition, not how it's posed to you today. The Left constantly says things like, the Right is racist because they don't support Affirmative action. No, that's not racist. Apposing AF means that everyone has equal opportunity. That's literally the opposite of racism. Yet you're taught to think that if minorities aren't getting a leg up, then it's racist. The thought process is backwards.
Can't wholly blame BNI though. He has been immersed in this for his whole life and the sad part is, not enough really think about it. it would be great if people saw people for what they are or were rather than the media telling you what to think. Sadly, the media and many majors in school that are soooooooooooo subjective allow all kinds of crazy thoughts...and few strive for treating someone how you want to be treated. That said there are cultures more successful than other cultures and that changes over time and different locations in the world. What culture will the USA have in 20 years? Safe to say it won't be the culture based upon independence, responsibility, accountability and meritocracy. Here is a primer for any reading this with an interest: Why does a lot of education in a lot of years do "group work"? Everyone knows that the work done is not equally shared, although the grade many times is. What is being taught? Is this healthy? Let's review Price's Law. Imagine a more complex position and 50% of the contribution is the number in the group raised to 1/2 power...AND ONE or more in that group were not there due to merit. Did you get enough work to get the best results?

 
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Having a confederate flag or statues up are not racist. You may want to interpret it that way, but that doesn't mean it is racist. There are blacks that have confederate flags. There is a whole lot of history in that civil war. A high estimation of slave owners in the south would be 26% meaning 3/4 were not slave owners. You already know there were slave owners in the north and you are aware there were black slave owners.

Racism happens when you treat someone different "ONLY" due to their race as is being a sexist. The interpretation of such may or may not be accurately guessed in what lies in the mind. People that promote such not only create problems, but generally many times make some profit for such...because they really don't want peace as it serves them no purpose. Intersectionality absolutely is a foundation for such and it is and has been a platform of the progressives for some time. When Harvard denies well accomplished Asians admittance and fills that spot with someone much less deserving, that is racism. You don't hear a lot about racism towards Asians. That in itself should cause pause?

When someone is searching for a given race or sex for a job, for a position, for advancement that is racist or sexist. Once you stray obviously away from merit or publicly state you are going to appoint a black woman you have stated that you are not searching for the the best person, but someone that is black with is racist and discriminatory as well as being sexist. Had there not been countless other examples of people in position based upon gender and such and he not said what he did there could be a debate about his intentions. If she ends up being very disserving, he did her no favor by stating what he was looking for in appointing someone on race and sex rather than a long pedigree of depth in substance.

All this is not only a political attempt to garner votes, but it is pushed by pretending that non-equal outcomes have merit in sex or race and anyone with children knows they are not equal in all things and that is under the most similar environment possible. Equality of outcome is a farce, but equality of opportunity as much as possible like choice in school is not. Today racism and sexism lives inside the heart of every person that knowingly voted for the promotion of Intersectionality. You want to respect MLK, judge people by their character, not their color. The generally implied pay gap between sexes is a myth that only entertains those lacking much thought...obviously unaware of sources of variation that contribute the difference.
Let me ask you a question before I get into all of this in another post.

Putting racism aside for minute. The confederates seceded from the Union, correct? The confederates fought against and killer US soldiers, correct? The confederates lost the civil war, correct? Then why in the heck are people allowed to even think about, let alone owning and waving confederate flags? Why in the heck are people allowed to erect and honor confederate soldiers that killed US soldiers?
 
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Let me ask you a question before I get into all of this in another post.

Putting racism aside for minute. The confederates seceded from the Union, correct? The confederates fought against and killer US soldiers, correct? The confederates lost the civil war, correct? Then why in the heck are people allowed to even think about, let alone owning and waving confederate flags? Why in the heck are people allowed to erect and honor confederate soldiers that killed US soldiers?
because it was a war that divided the nation. Lincoln knew this and wanted the nation to heal. In some cases families were split. Slavery was an issue, but not the only issue. Had Lincoln (perhaps not goaded the south) there might not be a war...and even then there didn't have to be a war. Had Lincoln stopped building up the troops in Ft Sumpter with the cannons pointed toward Charleston it is very possible the south wouldn't have fired on Ft Sumpter. The south for 3 or 5??? days pleaded for him to not do that, but he did...and perhaps Lincoln thought a war was the only way to keep the union together. MANY of those rangers in Gettysburg and such think that had the South not fired on Ft Sumpter there wouldn't have been a war. Perhaps you recall the north had little interest in a war and little concern that the south wanted out. However, all that changed when the south fired on Ft Sumpter.

I have posted before that in order to sign the constitution, some states would only do so if they were allow to secede and I "think" it was New York that came very close in the war of 1812 or about fifty years before the Civil war and so seceding was not something new. I think we share some sentiments even if our conclusions may be very different. Slavery was wrong, but it was much more common than uncommon in the history of man. All of us had ancestry that were slaves and perhaps slave owners. When looking at history (whether the bible or various events) it is important to put into perspective the mores and norms of the times as well as the verbiage and what it meant at the time. 20th century eyes can see it was very wrong, but perhaps northerners and southerners didn't have those eyes? I believe it was James Adams prodded along by his wife to start addressing the slave market in the 1700s and so there were some with deeper thought than what was common awareness.

Relative to the slave market the north was getting many of the slaves sold by black slave owners in Africa to the slave ships headed for the north to be sold to the south. Tarrifs and tax revenue was going much more to the north than the south and the south depended on agriculture for its money, while there was more industry in the north. Do you think some of that high of 26% that had slaves in the south (not counting the north) were concerned when they had paid money for the slaves while losing more money to the north than the south in taxes to have there slaves released? Again there was more than slavery, but what if the north had been willing to reimburse the south for their money spent? Would there have been a war?

There is small church called Christ's Church (https://www.historicchristchurch.org/) I've been to 2 or 3 times. Prior to Obama every president has attended at least one service there. Washington and Lee were there as this church is fairly close to Mt Vernon where my first cousin had to correct the officers clothing in Mr Vernon and was very well known there as my second visit to Mt Vernon was with him. He was a military historian that I lost in Covid. Anyway, inside the church are plaques ON THE PEWS where northerners and southerners during Civil War sat in church as well as a half circle pew where previous presidents set. One side would be the south and another side the north. Who were the good guys...who were the bad guys??? Perhaps the war is more complex than people wish to believe. Many wars are like that. That 3/4 of the south population that were not slave owners...any chance with the tax structure and tarrifs that the south viewed the north as overreach and violating states rights much like their ancestry did in the Revolutionary War? Who knows the real reasons the south wanted to secede JUST LIKE some states wanted when they signed the constitution. We know Lee although offered to head up the north felt the loyalty to his state. That is telling as is the 10th that I recently posted with the purpose of LIMITING the feds to ONLY those rights granted in the constitution. Jefferson felt the 10th was a cornerstone to much of the constitution which is consistent with his views of the individual. I have to go...wife wanting to watch Yellowstone. Perhaps I'll add more tomorrow.

Lastly, we share an understanding that slavery was wrong and existed in the north and the south. We also share an understanding that Lincoln himself although opposed never went to war over slavery, but to try to keep the union together. He was willing to let it slowly die and prevent new owners out west. BTW, that old drunk general (Grant) that was almost dropped out of the army that Lincoln promoted "because he would fight" when McClellan would not or was never ready ended up releasing his wife's four slaves and with that Said Lee and Stonewall Jackson were supporting schooling for slaves out of their own money. There is always more in a messy war...
 
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Let me ask you a question before I get into all of this in another post.

Putting racism aside for minute. The confederates seceded from the Union, correct? The confederates fought against and killer US soldiers, correct? The confederates lost the civil war, correct? Then why in the heck are people allowed to even think about, let alone owning and waving confederate flags? Why in the heck are people allowed to erect and honor confederate soldiers that killed US soldiers?
Maybe this explains it.

 
Maybe this explains it.

That doesn’t explain crap. After WW2, the swatstika was banned in Germany. But the neo-Nazis in Germany wave around that ugly confederate flag, though.
 
That doesn’t explain crap. After WW2, the swatstika was banned in Germany. But the neo-Nazis in Germany wave around that ugly confederate flag, though.
So a few years ago I went to Germany. My daughter married a German who grew up in Plauen, Germany...East Germany and about 10 miles from the wall Kim, my daughter and myself wanted to visit Sachsenhausen (sp?) the model for other concentration camps. Tobias her husband wanted to know why we would want to visit the camp...and I could tell he was embarrassed for what "some" in Germany did and allowed. I simply told him that he and his family had nothing to do with the concentration camps and in no way would we begin to hold any of them accountable. In that socialist country people can get charged similar to a felony for doing the Heil Hitler part.

Yet, with the "MILLIONS" of Jews, priests and social activists tortured the Jewish community have declared NEVER AGAIN and perhaps you saw the basketball team's sober commenting as well? If you haven't been to the Holocaust museum in D.C. I strongly recommend it. Rather than hide writings, artifacts and such, the Jewish community thought it best that the public see things and perhaps it might generate conversation. No doubt there are racist that wave a confederate flag, but having a confederate flag does NOT make someone a racist since that war had many elements at play and again most people in the south were not slave owners and slave owners existed in the north. The abolitionist were vocal and a very small group. It was no different then than today in that most people don't truly care about things if it doesn't involve them...sadly.

People can pick whatever side they want in the Civil War and all I'm trying to do is to suggest that things are not black and white...good guys versus bad guys. FWIW, I had an ancestor that fought for the north and died in Andersonville which is known for having been a horrific prisoner camp. Hard to say how he really died. I had a cousin that was an original member of the 101 st Easy Company that was drunk a lot dealing with what he encountered in the war with Germany (The mini series Band Of Brothers). Should I hate the Germans? I also have from the historic society a German ancestor from my father's mother's side that was an accomplished maker of paper that worked business with Ben Franklin. Records say he was offered to counterfeit money and wouldn't do it (not by Ben Franklin though). Life offers a lot of entanglements and what we see today in hindsight should never be construed in how we would respond in a different era. Christ told Peter he would deny Him 3 times before the cock crowed...something Peter thought would never happen and yet it did. Later as a reminder Christ asks Peter 3 times if he loves Him and then follows up telling Peter to feed his sheep. Peter was scared after all he saw and denied Him as Christ said he would. Course later Peter was to be crucified upside down not worthy to die similar to Christ no longer denying the Christ. WE just don't know what we would do...what thoughts we would hold and how we would act...we just don't.

It is well known that people prefer flight over fight and in each era had peer pressure. Just look at the peer pressure blacks put on other blacks that vote republican.

I'm against censoring. Officers that were friends in the same battle but on different sides asked to see his friend as they were carrying him prior to his death in Gettysburg. These officers in the Civil War fought alongside in previous wars as well as attending military school together fought on the side the state was on even though some of the border states had soldiers for both sides. Did these officers all of a sudden become good and bad wiping out all they previously agreed upon due to what they felt was a duty to their state? Does one chapter ruin a book? I think that if you look closer at the north and/or Lincoln you might see the lines of demarcation between good and bad blurred more than you do today. I was at Purdue last night where they inducted ROTC into the military. They swore to uphold the constitution AND follow the orders of the president. What happens when the president doesn’t follow the constitution? Do they uphold the constitution or the president ? Something to ponder?

Armistead-and-Bingham-The friend to friend monument
Armistead-and-Bingham-scaled.jpeg
 
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because it was a war that divided the nation. Lincoln knew this and wanted the nation to heal. In some cases families were split. Slavery was an issue, but not the only issue. Had Lincoln (perhaps not goaded the south) there might not be a war...and even then there didn't have to be a war. Had Lincoln stopped building up the troops in Ft Sumpter with the cannons pointed toward Charleston it is very possible the south wouldn't have fired on Ft Sumpter. The south for 3 or 5??? days pleaded for him to not do that, but he did...and perhaps Lincoln thought a war was the only way to keep the union together. MANY of those rangers in Gettysburg and such think that had the South not fired on Ft Sumpter there wouldn't have been a war. Perhaps you recall the north had little interest in a war and little concern that the south wanted out. However, all that changed when the south fired on Ft Sumpter.

I have posted before that in order to sign the constitution, some states would only do so if they were allow to secede and I "think" it was New York that came very close in the war of 1812 or about fifty years before the Civil war and so seceding was not something new. I think we share some sentiments even if our conclusions may be very different. Slavery was wrong, but it was much more common than uncommon in the history of man. All of us had ancestry that were slaves and perhaps slave owners. When looking at history (whether the bible or various events) it is important to put into perspective the mores and norms of the times as well as the verbiage and what it meant at the time. 20th century eyes can see it was very wrong, but perhaps northerners and southerners didn't have those eyes? I believe it was James Adams prodded along by his wife to start addressing the slave market in the 1700s and so there were some with deeper thought than what was common awareness.

Relative to the slave market the north was getting many of the slaves sold by black slave owners in Africa to the slave ships headed for the north to be sold to the south. Tarrifs and tax revenue was going much more to the north than the south and the south depended on agriculture for its money, while there was more industry in the north. Do you think some of that high of 26% that had slaves in the south (not counting the north) were concerned when they had paid money for the slaves while losing more money to the north than the south in taxes to have there slaves released? Again there was more than slavery, but what if the north had been willing to reimburse the south for their money spent? Would there have been a war?

There is small church called Christ's Church (https://www.historicchristchurch.org/) I've been to 2 or 3 times. Prior to Obama every president has attended at least one service there. Washington and Lee were there as this church is fairly close to Mt Vernon where my first cousin had to correct the officers clothing in Mr Vernon and was very well known there as my second visit to Mt Vernon was with him. He was a military historian that I lost in Covid. Anyway, inside the church are plaques ON THE PEWS where northerners and southerners during Civil War sat in church as well as a half circle pew where previous presidents set. One side would be the south and another side the north. Who were the good guys...who were the bad guys??? Perhaps the war is more complex than people wish to believe. Many wars are like that. That 3/4 of the south population that were not slave owners...any chance with the tax structure and tarrifs that the south viewed the north as overreach and violating states rights much like their ancestry did in the Revolutionary War? Who knows the real reasons the south wanted to secede JUST LIKE some states wanted when they signed the constitution. We know Lee although offered to head up the north felt the loyalty to his state. That is telling as is the 10th that I recently posted with the purpose of LIMITING the feds to ONLY those rights granted in the constitution. Jefferson felt the 10th was a cornerstone to much of the constitution which is consistent with his views of the individual. I have to go...wife wanting to watch Yellowstone. Perhaps I'll add more tomorrow.

Lastly, we share an understanding that slavery was wrong and existed in the north and the south. We also share an understanding that Lincoln himself although opposed never went to war over slavery, but to try to keep the union together. He was willing to let it slowly die and prevent new owners out west. BTW, that old drunk general (Grant) that was almost dropped out of the army that Lincoln promoted "because he would fight" when McClellan would not or was never ready ended up releasing his wife's four slaves and with that Said Lee and Stonewall Jackson were supporting schooling for slaves out of their own money. There is always more in a messy war...
You actually spent time a wrote all that BS. The only school that they supported for slaves was a Sunday school at the church. The slave owners would teach a watered down version of Christianity and give the slaves a watered down version of the Bible. Any reference to freedom were removed. Any references to obey a leader were kept in. They did this so that would be no revolt.

You need correction in all accounts. One account in particular is that you say the the slave owners in Africa sold the the Africans to the north. The Africans did not own the slaves. The Africans that they sold to the Europeans and Americans were prisoners of war. They sold their prisoners of war to the transatlantic slave traders.

The bottom line in that to blacks people the confederate flag, statues, and public building names are offensive and racist. The confederate flag is equivalent to the swatstika and should have been banned. Anybody the owns a confederate flag and support and reference to statues are racists and should be shamed of themselves. Why support items of a faile regime anyway? A regime that killed US soldiers is way beyond my comprehension. Those confederate statues did not go up until well into the Jim Crow era. The sole purpose of that crap was to intimidate black people. You are a stone cold racist if you justify that crap. And you should be shamed of yourself. Your write all this crap and say absolutely nothing. You are a racist.
 
Slaves have been around since creation. ALL races have been enslaved not just blacks.




I went to three different school systems and two different Universities. I was never taught that at any school.



The WS you talk about is actually historical racism. All true and accurate. But ancient history.

However today, White Supremacy is now term kidnapped by elite progressive academia to project a sense of "unfairness". The purpose is to remove the focus from ruling class's bad policy, and put the poor and disenfranchised focus on unfairness. This redirects them from the bad policy that kept them dependent on the ruling class and turns it to a new enemy the supposed rich white ruling class..... which doesn't exist.
It creates a level of dependency and victimhood. When people struggle or have other issues, instead of looking in the mirror, they listen to the race hustlers and point at whitey as the cause of their problems.
 
The Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Acts were both passed by a Democratic President. Clinton's economic policies did more to build up black wealth than any President before or since. I've seen firsthand how the Affordable Care Act has brought healthcare access to millions of Americans, many of them black.

I'm not saying you're racist, but if you think GOP policies benefit black people, you're pretty deluded.
Check your facts on which president did more for Black Americans......I know it'll send you running for your safe space, but his name starts with a T.....
 
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Having a confederate flag or statues up are not racist.

.

A very long post from you, but one does not need to read past your first sentence to clearly identify that the author of the post is a racist. "It doesn't bother this old white guy, so it must not be racist!"

I've largely decided to now avoid this board because it is an echo chamber along the lines of the Storm Front Message Board, where racists make racist statements and then try to justify why they're not racist by sugar-coating them with freedom of speech rights. Of course you have a right to express your beliefs! That doesn't make them less odious.

My advice? (which I strongly doubt will be taken):

Guys like this tjreese fellow are old and so so hard-wired in their racist beliefs, that they think that the Civil War was a states' rights war in part started by Lincoln. And that's in the face of Confederate State constitutions and Lincoln's direct statements (now watch them grab an out-of-context Lincoln quote).

So sadly, probably the best strategy is to disengage from these racists from a different era and wait for them to die off.

Enjoy your racist Trumpy echo chamber.

.
 
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A very long post from you, but one does not need to read past your first sentence to clearly identify that the author of the post is a racist. "It doesn't bother this old white guy, so it must not be racist!"

I've largely decided to now avoid this board because it is an echo chamber on the lines of the Storm Front message board, where racists make racist statements and then try to justify why they're not racist by sugar-coating them with freedom of speech rights. Of course you have a right to express your beliefs! That doesn't make them less odious.

My advice? (which I strongly doubt will be taken):

Guys like this tjreese fellow are old and so so hard-wired in their racist beliefs, that they think that the Civil War was a states' rights war in part started by Lincoln. And that's in the face of Confederate State constitutions and Lincoln's direct statements (now watch them grab an out-of-context Lincoln quote).

So sadly, probably the best strategy is to disengage from these racists from a different era and wait for them to die off.
Enjoy your racist Trumpy echo chamber.
Yeah, tjreese sure exposed himself as a racist. Others have as well. I've gotten in many kerfuffles on this board with folks defending that ugly confederate flag and statues. The same folks also like to justify or downplay the US role in the slave trade. They always deflect that the US did not invent it. Slavery has been around for thousands of years. Or, deflect that the Africans sold the slaves to the Europeans and the US.
 
A very long post from you, but one does not need to read past your first sentence to clearly identify that the author of the post is a racist. "It doesn't bother this old white guy, so it must not be racist!"

I've largely decided to now avoid this board because it is an echo chamber on the lines of the Storm Front message board, where racists make racist statements and then try to justify why they're not racist by sugar-coating them with freedom of speech rights. Of course you have a right to express your beliefs! That doesn't make them less odious.

My advice? (which I strongly doubt will be taken):

Guys like this tjreese fellow are old and so so hard-wired in their racist beliefs, that they think that the Civil War was a states' rights war in part started by Lincoln. And that's in the face of Confederate State constitutions and Lincoln's direct statements (now watch them grab an out-of-context Lincoln quote).

So sadly, probably the best strategy is to disengage from these racists from a different era and wait for them to die off.
Enjoy your racist Trumpy echo chamber.
no....no...please don't go....(this isn't an airport. No need to announce your departure). Bye Felicia.
 
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A very long post from you, but one does not need to read past your first sentence to clearly identify that the author of the post is a racist. "It doesn't bother this old white guy, so it must not be racist!"



So sadly, probably the best strategy is to disengage from these racists from a different era and wait for them to die off.
Enjoy your racist Trumpy echo chamber.
Says the guy who insisted LBJ was a better president than Trump despite the 800,000 nonwhites pointlessly killed in the Vietnam War.

Says the same guy who will vote for Joe Crow again even if he does publicly call adult male blacks like bni "boy".

You don't even recognize your own blatant racism, yet you think you can call it out in others.
 
The same folks also like to justify or downplay the US role in the slave trade. They always deflect that the US did not invent it. Slavery has been around for thousands of years. Or, deflect that the Africans sold the slaves to the Europeans and the US.
Are you claiming those 'deflections' are not true?
 
Are you claiming those 'deflections' are not true?
Nope. I’m claiming that they deflect in some weird stupid way to somehow take the sting away from the US role in slavery. I’ve argued with folks on this board that say that slavery wasn’t as bad as depicted in history books. Now you you some dude on this board saying that the confederate flag ain’t racist. And seemingly trying to justify that the confederates aren’t traitors. At least that is what I got out of his long essay.
 
Nope. I’m claiming that they deflect in some weird stupid way to somehow take the sting away from the US role in slavery. I’ve argued with folks on this board that say that slavery wasn’t as bad as depicted in history books. Now you you some dude on this board saying that the confederate flag ain’t racist. And seemingly trying to justify that the confederates aren’t traitors. At least that is what I got out of his long essay.
The Confed flag is despicable in what it is used to represent today, and has always been despicable to people who fully understand what it represents.

However, most of the young men who fought under it in the Civil War did not do so to preserve slavery. In fact, most were poor dirt farmers who were being crushed economically by having to compete with wealthier landowners who had ultra cheap labor in slaves. Instead, those poor whites viewed the war as their 'homeland" being invaded and the manly thing to do was to join the fight.
 
Nope. I’m claiming that they deflect in some weird stupid way to somehow take the sting away from the US role in slavery. I’ve argued with folks on this board that say that slavery wasn’t as bad as depicted in history books. Now you you some dude on this board saying that the confederate flag ain’t racist. And seemingly trying to justify that the confederates aren’t traitors. At least that is what I got out of his long essay.
Why are you still stuck on slavery?
In what way does it have anything to do with anything today?
Are there laws, anywhere in the country, that specifically say "black people"?

For someone who admitted that they've never been the victim of racism, you sure do like to pull the racism card a lot.
 
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Why are you still stuck on slavery?
In what way does it have anything to do with anything today?
Are there laws, anywhere in the country, that specifically say "black people"?

For someone who admitted that they've never been the victim of racism, you sure do like to pull the racism card a lot.
First of all I never said I never been a victim of racism. I told y’all whole at Purdue in the 80s a cross was burned at the Black Cultural Center and the black fraternity house on Waldron. Even if I never, ever experience racism, there are those that have and there’s is nothing wrong to speak out on that.

There doesn’t have to be laws that specifically say black people. That’s ignorant to think that there is. Black farmers don’t get the federal money white farmers do. Black home seller’s homes are undervalued compared to the white counterparts in the same neighborhood. Still bank loan, car loan racial disparities. There are no specific discriminating laws for those but it’s still happening.
 
Black farmers don’t get the federal money white farmers do. Black home seller’s homes are undervalued compared to the white counterparts in the same neighborhood. Still bank loan, car loan racial disparities.

Got any data to support any of that?

Current relevant data, like the last 5-10 years. Not ancient history crap.
 
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Got any data to support any of that?

Current relevant data, like the last 5-10 years. Not ancient history crap.

As usual you and others will try to squirm and explain away these examples.
 

As usual you and others will try to squirm and explain away these examples.

Not sure you read the farmer article. Does not support your case or offer any substantial data. Talks about unsubstantiated claims that's all.

All govt farm programs are open to ALL farmers. Black, white, purple doesn't matter.

Land loss? LoL.

Looked like poorly written BS article to me to catch race baters with a subject few know much about. But I do.

The other article refers to 1 home. ONE. The loan personell needs to be fired. That's all. Hardly data. 1 data point is not Data. 🤡🤡
 
Are you claiming those 'deflections' are not true?
That is their problem. You write the truth and how others may view events and then they throw out a label because they can't really argue against the points you present. That is their mode of operation. They pretend to know the REAL answer rather than many REAL ANSWERS with their 20th century eyes. THIS is exactly why there are 60,000 denominations each interpreting what they read without really understanding the culture, vocabulary, mores and norms of the times...along with a lack of sufficient history to opine on a subject with an emotional response rather than an intellectual response. Emotional interpretations combined with lack of sufficient understandings lie in their answers being correct when rangers at civil war sites can list a variety of reasons for everything...much more complicated than their simplistic views. They know their reasons why over 75% of the south (not counting the north) that were not slave owners went to war for the 25% of those that were.

If you try to present a stance that Thomas Sowell whose septic tank is filled with more intellectual substance than the combined wit of a few that post, Thomas will be referred to as a "SAMBO" or just disagreed with through an opinion...obviously lacking in substance. If you point out the riot at the capital as the worlds first unarmed overthrow of the government, you get the same idiotic diversion and possible links of another verbiage rather than the illogic stance they stand. There are a lot of stupid voters though, but you hate your tax dollars supporting the income of such. The go to word when stumped the last couple of years is racist and it obviously works on simple minds
 
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The Confed flag is despicable in what it is used to represent today, and has always been despicable to people who fully understand what it represents.

However, most of the young men who fought under it in the Civil War did not do so to preserve slavery. In fact, most were poor dirt farmers who were being crushed economically by having to compete with wealthier landowners who had ultra cheap labor in slaves. Instead, those poor whites viewed the war as their 'homeland" being invaded and the manly thing to do was to join the fight.
I don't know how the confed flag is viewed today relative to the confed flag relating to the war. However, the flag and such relative to the war as you clearly stated had to do with economics, fed overreach as well as slavery. Those fighting for the south in MANY cases were poor, white, non-slave owners. The general ignorance of the south was noted by Hessians years earlier in the many stumps in the fields where they continued to farm around them rather than remove them. The rednecks freed from the south took their ignorance with them to the north (where joined with white liberals )and sometimes post in various forums.

31CuHMYzuNL.jpg
 
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Not sure you read the farmer article. Does not support your case or offer any substantial data. Talks about unsubstantiated claims that's all.

All govt farm programs are open to ALL farmers. Black, white, purple doesn't matter.

Land loss? LoL.

Looked like poorly written BS article to me to catch race baters with a subject few know much about. But I do.

The other article refers to 1 home. ONE. The loan personell needs to be fired. That's all. Hardly data. 1 data point is not Data. 🤡🤡
Regarding the farmers, I gave you an article but on queue, you dismissed it as unsubstantiated. I am telling you the black farmers have been fighting this for decades. That was one of the first things Obama did after he was was to get the black farmers money that was due to them from the 1990s. Why are black farmers treated differently?
If you want more examples you google yourself.

As far as the black homeowners, there are still racial disparities in housing. I gave you an example. Again, if you want more, google yourself.
 
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That is their problem. You write the truth and how others may view events and then they throw out a label because they can't really argue against the points you present. That is their mode of operation. They pretend to know the REAL answer rather than many REAL ANSWERS with their 20th century eyes. THIS is exactly why there are 60,000 denominations each interpreting what they read without really understanding the culture, vocabulary, mores and norms of the times...along with a lack of sufficient history to opine on a subject with an emotional response rather than an intellectual response. Emotional interpretations combined with lack of sufficient understandings lie in their answers being correct when rangers at civil war sites can list a variety of reasons for everything...much more complicated than their simplistic views. They know their reasons why over 75% of the south (not counting the north) that were not slave owners went to war for the 25% of those that were.

If you try to present a stance that Thomas Sowell whose septic tank is filled with more intellectual substance than the combined wit of a few that post, Thomas will be referred to as a "SAMBO" or just disagreed with through an opinion...obviously lacking in substance. If you point out the riot at the capital as the worlds first unarmed overthrow of the government, you get the same idiotic diversion and possible links of another verbiage rather than the illogic stance they stand. There are a lot of stupid voters though, but you hate your tax dollars supporting the income of such. The go to word when stumped the last couple of years is racist and it obviously works on simple minds
You sure write a lot but say absolutely nothing.
 
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Regarding the farmers, I gave you an article but on queue, you dismissed it as unsubstantiated. I am telling you the black farmers have been fighting this for decades. That was one of the first things Obama did after he was was to get the black farmers money that was due to them from the 1990s. Why are black farmers treated differently?
If you want more examples you google yourself.

As far as the black homeowners, there are still racial disparities in housing. I gave you an example. Again, if you want more, google yourself.


I said CURRENT.

The O settlement is for behavior years ago. The case was for behavior before 1997.

There is no current data because this doesn't happen now very often. You have PAST data and PAST info only. As predicted, you live in the past. You justify your CURRENT rage based on behavior of the PAST, that didn't even happen to you. LOL 🤡🤡🤡
 
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I said CURRENT.

The O settlement is for behavior years ago. The case was for behavior before 1997.

There is no current data because this doesn't happen now very often. You have PAST data and PAST info only. As predicted, you live in the past. You justify your CURRENT rage based on behavior of the PAST, that didn't even happen to you. LOL 🤡🤡🤡
Dude, I gave you current info but you dismissed it as usual. Google yourself for more info. In either situation, it is ongoing. Because of your white privilege you don’t hear or care about those issues. Those issues don’t get discussed on your circles.
 
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Dude, I gave you current info but you dismissed it as usual. Google yourself for more info. In either situation, it is ongoing. Because of your white privilege you don’t hear or care about those issues. Those issues don’t get discussed on your circles.

The "black farmers" article was in reference to debts YEARS AGO and based on federal aid years ago. If you read it, you would know that.

The only current about it was -as a result of past --+ the Biden agreed to pay of black loans and not white loans. Blocked because it was RACIST.

So like I said you have NO CURRENT data to substantiate your wild claims.
 
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