Edey

[ehuffma1]

If Edey can contribute, we will be dangerous. That gives us a young 7’4” guy that we can bring off the bench for years to come. I like it.

No way Tre can play the 4 against most lineups. If IU played “big” they’d have TJD at the 4. Tre would be fine guarding him. Tre is not chasing around a 6’8” big guard from Michigan that they play at the 4 sometimes.

 

[Wolegib]

When Morton and Hunter return, what becomes of Wheeler ? That said, what becomes of Wheeler next year? I hate to see a senior sitting and watching from the bench. Both Eastern and Taylor saw that reality and decided to leave.

 

[IUhaterade]

I only see two 4’s on this years roster and they are Wheeler and Gillis- not sure why Morton and Hunter returning would impact Wheeler all that much. If Gillis outplays Wheeler, that will affect Wheeler’s PT

 

[mathboy]

When Morton and Hunter return, what becomes of Wheeler ? That said, what becomes of Wheeler next year? I hate to see a senior sitting and watching from the bench. Both Eastern and Taylor saw that reality and decided to leave.

I think you are off base here. Eastern would have started this year. That’s not the reason he left.. Dont kid yourself, nobody was going to push him out of the starting line up. He left because mom didn’t like that every play was not run for him, and because he struggled against BIG competition.

 

[Wolegib]

I think you are off base here. Eastern would have started this year. That’s not the reason he left.. Dont kid yourself, nobody was going to push him out of the starting line up. He left because mom didn’t like that every play was not run for him, and because he struggled against BIG competition.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Just like Stephens also saw the writing on the wall. They were not going to be featured players, their nba dreams went down the tubes, so they left! Much like Palombizio!

 

[Wolegib]

I brought up hunter and ivy and Newman’s names because Painter loves playing 3 guards. And in order to do that, he needs somebody on the inside and his three guards will be taking the perimeter shots! Based on last year, I can’t see wheeler being an outside shooter. And I can’t really see him being an inside force either. For that matter, I’m not really sold on Gillis either. I know 5 million purdue fans on this board have all said tre is not a 4. But from my perspective, we really don’t have any 4 on our roster. I don’t really see either Wheeler or Gillis being a 4. Therefore I will suggest we play with 3 guards and two 5’s. Frankly, I’d rather see Edey getting a bigger share of the minutes than either Wheeler or Gillis!

 

[mathboy]

You have your opinion and I have mine. Just like Stephens also saw the writing on the wall. They were not going to be featured players, their nba dreams went down the tubes, so they left! Much like Palombizio!

So, according to you, the only reason a player leaves Purdue is because of playing time? I don't agree. You are way over simplifying these situations. IIRC Polumbizio did not get along with the coach. He would probably started. Stephens had other problems that put him in trouble with his coach. I suspect substance abuse, but I don’t know for sure.

Eastern would have started. Nobody on the team could have pushed him out of his starting position. He was on the all BIG defensive team, and ran the offense well enough to start over everybody else. His defense won multiple games for us last year.

 

[Wolegib]

So, according to you, the only reason a player leaves Purdue is because of playing time? I don't agree. You are way over simplifying these situations. IIRC Polumbizio did not get along with the coach. He would probably started. Stephens had other problems that put him in trouble with his coach. I suspect substance abuse, but I don’t know for sure.

Eastern would have started. Nobody on the team could have pushed him out of his starting position. He was on the all BIG defensive team, and ran the offense well enough to start over everybody else. His defense won multiple games for us last year.

Ok we’ve had a few flunk out! Martin left for Notre Dame. Why? He was basically competing with Hummel. Stephens was benched and then left the team and then came back. How about the guy who went up to ft Wayne? Eastern was seeing both his minutes and role decreasing. He also saw who we were recruiting! Many people beside myself suggested with our new additions this year and if everyone were healthy, his role would decrease even more! We actually recruited an elite PG! Eastern may have elite defensive skills, But his overall game wasn’t going to get him into the NBA. And painter sure wasn’t going to increase his offensive responsibilities! You can believe what you want. But from an outside perspective, it’s fairly clear what was going to happen! It was the same at Michigan! If you read the Michigan boards, they saw Eastern as a nice role player off the bench! The stuff about his classes wouldn’t transfer? Who believed that excuse? Sometimes you must be able to infer to be able to get the total picture!

 

[Wolegib]

Why did Taylor leave? And the Johnsons? The the guy who went to DePaul? I’m sure they all left for academic reasons!

 

[IUhaterade]

I brought up hunter and ivy and Newman’s names because Painter loves playing 3 guards. And in order to do that, he needs somebody on the inside and his three guards will be taking the perimeter shots! Based on last year, I can’t see wheeler being an outside shooter. And I can’t really see him being an inside force either. For that matter, I’m not really sold on Gillis either. I know 5 million purdue fans on this board have all said tre is not a 4. But from my perspective, we really don’t have any 4 on our roster. I don’t really see either Wheeler or Gillis being a 4. Therefore I will suggest we play with 3 guards and two 5’s. Frankly, I’d rather see Edey getting a bigger share of the minutes than either Wheeler or Gillis!

So you want Tre and Edey to start and have 0 bigs off the bench? Doesn’t sound even remotely feasible to me.

 

[northside100]

So you want Tre and Edey to start and have 0 bigs off the bench? Doesn’t sound even remotely feasible to me.

Correct. At a minimum Edey will need to play 10 to 15 mpg to spell Tre. How many mpg we expect from a 7’4” true freshman? 20? 25 at the very most?

If Tre played 30 mpg and ZEd plays 25 (I don’t think either seems likely) they’d be on the court together for 15 mpg.

 

[northside100]

So, according to you, the only reason a player leaves Purdue is because of playing time? I don't agree. You are way over simplifying these situations. IIRC Polumbizio did not get along with the coach. He would probably started. Stephens had other problems that put him in trouble with his coach. I suspect substance abuse, but I don’t know for sure.

Eastern would have started. Nobody on the team could have pushed him out of his starting position. He was on the all BIG defensive team, and ran the offense well enough to start over everybody else. His defense won multiple games for us last year.

I’ve yet to figure out if he knowingly provides hot takes that that are inaccurate (Nojel would have watched from the bench as a senior) to get a reaction and then steps it back to something that’s more reasonable (Nojel would not have been featured on offense) when he’s called on it. The alternative is he’s just wildly uninformed.

In either case he never acknowledges that his first take was off, he just pretends it didn’t happen and moves the goalposts.

 

[IUhaterade]

I would hope that Nojel would not have started this year- unless it was at the 4.
Some combination of Hunter, Ivey, Newman and Stefanovic need to start at the 1-3 if all 4 of those guys are healthy enough to start. Nojel as a starting guard just would have made this season more of the same as last year and would have hampered our transition to the next wave of starters. I agree that if Nojel had stayed he would have started on the bench or at least had his minutes lessened to great extent- and I do think that’s probably one of the main reasons he left. His mins were already going down last year and he saw the writing on the wall- he would not be a featured player on this years team.

 

[northside100]

I would hope that Nojel would not have started this year- unless it was at the 4.
Some combination of Hunter, Ivey, Newman and Stefanovic need to start at the 1-3 if all 4 of those guys are healthy enough to start. Nojel as a starting guard just would have made this season more of the same as last year and would have hampered our transition to the next wave of starters. I agree that if Nojel had stayed he would have started on the bench or at least had his minutes lessened to great extent- and I do think that’s probably one of the main reasons he left. His mins were already going down last year and he saw the writing on the wall- he would not be a featured player on this years team.

I agree that Nojel would not have been featured on offense and his departure creates opportunities for younger players.

I suspect his minutes would have been matchup based. My personal view is that the offense last year was hampered less by Nojel than the lack of a consistent inside out game and a backcourt player who could generate their own offense. If you surround Tre or ZEd with three shooters and EH or Ivey are able to generate their own offense you can probably get away with Nojel not being an offensive threat if he can shut down the other team’s leas scorer or make them inefficient.

 

[GoldandBlackintheSaddleAgain]

I brought up hunter and ivy and Newman’s names because Painter loves playing 3 guards. And in order to do that, he needs somebody on the inside and his three guards will be taking the perimeter shots! Based on last year, I can’t see wheeler being an outside shooter. And I can’t really see him being an inside force either. For that matter, I’m not really sold on Gillis either. I know 5 million purdue fans on this board have all said tre is not a 4. But from my perspective, we really don’t have any 4 on our roster. I don’t really see either Wheeler or Gillis being a 4. Therefore I will suggest we play with 3 guards and two 5’s. Frankly, I’d rather see Edey getting a bigger share of the minutes than either Wheeler or Gillis!

How can you say you're "not sold on Gillis" when the kid hasn't even played a single minute yet?! Smh

 

[Purdue85]

How can you say you're "not sold on Gillis" when the kid hasn't even played a single minute yet?! Smh

because.

that's all.

 

[BoilerJS]

I agree that Nojel would not have been featured on offense and his departure creates opportunities for younger players.

I suspect his minutes would have been matchup based. My personal view is that the offense last year was hampered less by Nojel than the lack of a consistent inside out game and a backcourt player who could generate their own offense. If you surround Tre or ZEd with three shooters and EH or Ivey are able to generate their own offense you can probably get away with Nojel not being an offensive threat if he can shut down the other team’s leas scorer or make them inefficient.

My personal view is that the offense last year was hampered less by Nojel than the lack of a consistent inside out game and a backcourt player who could generate their own offense.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Nojel was the player that couldn't create any offense. Thus the other team didn't need to worry about him.
They could than concentrate on shutting everyone else down, making it harder for any back court player to create their own shot.

 

[Poprudy]

When Nojel attacked he was productive but that didn't happen to enough. We will have a ton of guards that I believe can be featured guards. I am very excited for the upcoming guard play on this team. CMP is putting a combination of good guards and bigs together....props to CMP and staff.

 

[purduepat1969]

How can you say you're "not sold on Gillis" when the kid hasn't even played a single minute yet?! Smh

I don't get this take about Gillis at all. Let him show what he can do. I guess it's OK to be doubtful. But there's really no evidence to show he's not completely recovered from his injury and ready to play.

 

[northside100]

My personal view is that the offense last year was hampered less by Nojel than the lack of a consistent inside out game and a backcourt player who could generate their own offense.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Nojel was the player that couldn't create any offense. Thus the other team didn't need to worry about him.
They could than concentrate on shutting everyone else down, making it harder for any back court player to create their own shot.

I understand the argument and am not discounting that as a factor, but I'm not sure that there's any evidence that supports that it was a primary cause. If it were, I'd have expected to see the other back court players be consistently successful in creating their own shot when Nojel wasn't on the court and that didn't happen.

 

[IUhaterade]

Hmm. There were numerous occasions last season where the offense looked much better with Nojel on the bench.

 

[northside100]

My personal view is that the offense last year was hampered less by Nojel than the lack of a consistent inside out game and a backcourt player who could generate their own offense.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Nojel was the player that couldn't create any offense. Thus the other team didn't need to worry about him.
They could than concentrate on shutting everyone else down, making it harder for any back court player to create their own shot.

Hmm. There were numerous occasions last season where the offense looked much better with Nojel on the bench.

I don't doubt that that's true. There were also times when Nojel was out of the game and the offense did not look good and times where Nojel was in the game and Tre was dominating or Sasha was hitting everything and the offense looked great. Maybe there is a direct correlation between our best offensive games and games where Nojel played the least and I just haven't seen it?

 

[IUhaterade]

I don’t remember any instances where Nojel was on the bench and the offense looked as inept as it did when he was on the floor. You won’t see the pattern if you don’t want to see it.

 

[northside100]

Hmm. There were numerous occasions last season where the offense looked much better with Nojel on the bench.

This is a highly flawed analysis, but in the 10 highest scoring games last year Nojel averaged 25.1 minutes, in the ten lowest scoring games he averaged 24 mpg.

In the 10 highest scoring Big Ten conference games he averaged 26.6 mpg, in the 10 lowest scoring he averaged 26.3 mpg.

 

[northside100]

I don’t remember any instances where Nojel was on the bench and the offense looked as inept as it did when he was on the floor. You won’t see the pattern if you don’t want to see it.

You are absolutely correct regarding one not seeing a pattern that one doesn't want to see. Confirmation bias is real and your memory (or mine) of how the offense functioned with or without any given players will certainly suffer for it.

I'm not trying to pick a fight or say that you were wrong in noticing times when the offense bogged down due to Nojel, but outside of what you remember observing, I don't see any data that supports that Nojel was the primary issue.

I posted stats above that show that there was no direct correlation between Nojel's minutes played and Purdue's points scored last year. In two of the top three conference scoring games last year he played close to 30 minutes and in the third (at home versus Iowa) the game was so lopsided that neither Tre nor Nojel played many second half minutes.

 

[purduepat1969]

You are absolutely correct regarding one not seeing a pattern that one doesn't want to see. Confirmation bias is real and your memory (or mine) of how the offense functioned with or without any given players will certainly suffer for it.

I'm not trying to pick a fight or say that you were wrong in noticing times when the offense bogged down due to Nojel, but outside of what you remember observing, I don't see any data that supports that Nojel was the primary issue.

I posted stats above that show that there was no direct correlation between Nojel's minutes played and Purdue's points scored last year. In two of the top three conference scoring games last year he played close to 30 minutes and in the third (at home versus Iowa) the game was so lopsided that neither Tre nor Nojel played many second half minutes.

Nojel was a very good defensive player but a major offensive liability. We've (me especially) have beaten on him enough though. Probably time to move on and look forward to what our current players will do this year. I'm looking forward to the next few years with the recruits Painter has been able to bring in. I was critical of his recruiting in the past, but he's shown this year with Furst and Kaufman that he can get the players.

 

[northside100]

Nojel was a very good defensive player but a major offensive liability. We've (me especially) have beaten on him enough though. Probably time to move on and look forward to what our current players will do this year. I'm looking forward to the next few years with the recruits Painter has been able to bring in. I was critical of his recruiting in the past, but he's shown this year with Furst and Kaufman that he can get the players.

Are you gently encouraging me to let the hot takes go unanswered Pat?

 

[Esox54547]

You are absolutely correct regarding one not seeing a pattern that one doesn't want to see. Confirmation bias is real and your memory (or mine) of how the offense functioned with or without any given players will certainly suffer for it.

I'm not trying to pick a fight or say that you were wrong in noticing times when the offense bogged down due to Nojel, but outside of what you remember observing, I don't see any data that supports that Nojel was the primary issue.

I posted stats above that show that there was no direct correlation between Nojel's minutes played and Purdue's points scored last year. In two of the top three conference scoring games last year he played close to 30 minutes and in the third (at home versus Iowa) the game was so lopsided that neither Tre nor Nojel played many second half minutes.

Well here are some stats that would back up the thought that the offense was worse with Nojel. His offensive rating was 2nd lowest to Wheeler. Also his Net rating was 2nd lowest to Aaron’s as well, so his defense didn’t quite make up for his offense. I don’t know how well these stats really measure performance, but it’s something. Either way I wish Nojel well and look forward to hopefully seeing an improved team this year.

Stats

 

[northside100]

Well here are some stats that would back up the thought that the offense was worse with Nojel. His offensive rating was 2nd lowest to Wheeler. Also his Net rating was 2nd lowest to Aaron’s as well, so his defense didn’t quite make up for his offense. I don’t know how well these stats really measure performance, but it’s something. Either way I wish Nojel well and look forward to hopefully seeing an improved team this year.

Stats

Agree on both counts. My view was that Nojel was one of many issues with the offense last year (which was very disappointing for those of us who had expected to see him take a step forward on offense). There is no arguing that he was not good on offense but I can't find any data that would support the view that he was the primary issue with the offense. I haven't had a chance to look into the data, but my guess is that if one were looking to draw a direct correlation between team offense and individual performance it would show that when Tre and / or Sasha were good on offense our whole offense played well and when they didn't we struggled.

Completely agree with wishing Nojel well and looking forward to a more consistently strong offense this year.

 

[purduepat1969]

Are you gently encouraging me to let the hot takes go unanswered Pat?

I'm just saying I've beat on him enough! 😁

 

[northside100]

Well here are some stats that would back up the thought that the offense was worse with Nojel. His offensive rating was 2nd lowest to Wheeler. Also his Net rating was 2nd lowest to Aaron’s as well, so his defense didn’t quite make up for his offense. I don’t know how well these stats really measure performance, but it’s something. Either way I wish Nojel well and look forward to hopefully seeing an improved team this year.

Stats

Quick follow up, because I'm a geek and wasn't able to draw a direct correlation between Nojel's minutes played and the team's offensive performance. I looked at the performance of Tre and Sasha in the 20 conference games played last year and tried to determine any correlation between their performance and team points per game.

Surprisingly (at least to me), there looked to be very little correlation between Tre's ppg, rpg, apg, etc. and the team's offensive performance. The only strong correlations that I was able to find were 1) In games where Purdue's offense performed well, Sasha shot more threes at a higher percentage 2) 60% of the first, second and third quartile of scoring games were at home, 80% of the last quartile of scoring games were on the road.

Is Sasha's 3pt shooting a causal relationship? i.e. Was the offense was better because Sasha shot the ball better? I don't know but I suspect it was a significant factor. Could it be that Sasha shot the ball better because the offense was better and he got better looks? Could be and my guess is that it played a role, but it also seemed that there were times when he couldn't miss when the offense was rolling and times when he missed a lot of the open looks when the offense struggled.

• In the five highest scoring conference games Purdue averaged 83.6 ppg Sasha averaged 6.6 three point attempts per game and shot 42% on those attempts.
• In the second quartile of highest scoring conference games Purdue averaged 69.6 ppg Sasha averaged 7.2 three point attempts per game and shot 39% on those attempts.
• In the third quartile of highest scoring conference games Purdue averaged 61,4 ppg Sasha averaged 4 three point attempts per game and shot 35% on those attempts.
• In the second quartile of highest scoring conference games Purdue averaged 50.4 ppg Sasha averaged 4.8 three point attempts per game and shot 17% on those attempts.

 

[Darren579]

Because I'm a geek I went through and

Quick follow up, because I'm a geek and wasn't able to draw a direct correlation between Nojel's minutes played and the team's offensive performance. I looked at the performance of Tre and Sasha in the 20 conference games played last year and tried to determine any correlation between their performance and team points per game.

Surprisingly (at least to me), there looked to be very little correlation between Tre's ppg, rpg, apg, etc. and the team's offensive performance. The only strong correlations that I was able to find were 1) In games where Purdue's offense performed well, Sasha shot more threes at a higher percentage 2) 60% of the first, second and third quartile of scoring games were at home, 80% of the last quartile of scoring games were on the road.

Is Sasha's 3pt shooting a causal relationship? i.e. Was the offense was better because Sasha shot the ball better? I don't know but I suspect it was a significant factor. Could it be that Sasha shot the ball better because the offense was better and he got better looks? Could be and my guess is that it played a role, but it also seemed that there were times when he couldn't miss when the offense was rolling and times when he missed a lot of the open looks when the offense struggled.

• In the five highest scoring conference games Purdue averaged 83.6 ppg Sasha averaged 6.6 three point attempts per game and shot 42% on those attempts.
• In the second quartile of highest scoring conference games Purdue averaged 69.6 ppg Sasha averaged 7.2 three point attempts per game and shot 39% on those attempts.
• In the third quartile of highest scoring conference games Purdue averaged 61,4 ppg Sasha averaged 4 three point attempts per game and shot 35% on those attempts.
• In the second quartile of highest scoring conference games Purdue averaged 50.4 ppg Sasha averaged 4.8 three point attempts per game and shot 17% on those attempts.

Those stats show me the importance of having another competent 3 point shooter on the floor with Sasha at all times to help spread the floor and make it difficult for the other team to focus their defense on shutting down 1 shooter. I think Newman will make a huge difference for this team and Sasha will be more consistent because of it.

 

[3generboiler]

So what’s any of this got to do with Edey? Reminds me of the content of the Phys 152
Exam ... nothing to do with the subject header