Cover up

[BoilerMadness]

Interesting FOX carried the pubs live today but for the last 3 days of house manager presentations they mostly had a live feed reduced in the corner with no sound while pundits ridiculed it on air.

MSNBC and CNN carried all of it live, including the pubs today.

Assuming they carry the next two days live and uninterrupted, which networks would be considered more fair and balanced?

FOX carried the House Dems live for the first day and part of the second. When they determined that they were just repeating themselves, they went to the dual pictures. If anything significant occurred, they would go back to the House Dems.
I realized in the first day, that if Schiif were Pinocchio, his nose would have traversed the Earth at least twice. That lad and the truth have never met.

If you haven't figured it out yet, the 20+ hours the Dems spent pumping out their propaganda wasn't done for the benefit of the Senate. It was done for any potential voters that tuned in, so they could get inundated with a lot of Trump innuendo and misinformation. Of course CNN & MSNBC are going to slobber up every second of it, regardless of it's newsworthiness. They're the marketing arm of the DNC.

I'm sure a few heads exploded at CNN & MSNBC, after carrying two whole hours of the President's attorneys blowing up the House Dem's case.

Pelosi's biggest problem was going against here better judgment and letting Schiff talk her into the Impeachment. She's been around Schiff long enough to know that he can NOT tell the truth. It's going to cost the Dems the House and Old Nancy will retire.

 

[BoilerMadness]

The video you linked is Sondland's recollection of his call with the President in which the President said he didn't want quid pro quo. It's known that this happened after he knew about the investigation. Sondland testified that there WAS quid pro quo.

View embedded media

I watched his testimony. In the morning, when the Dems were questioning him, he said that there was quid pro quo. In the afternoon, he was asked directly, if the President told him that there was quid pro quo and he admitted that he had PRESUMED that there was, but after talking with the President later, he was told that there was no expectation of quid pro quo.

 

[BoilerMadness]

" Enjoying the prosperity" ?? As if the "orange man" is singularly responsible for this prosperity ??
If this country is enjoying economic positives.....has it ever occurred to you that it's just as much IN SPITE OF OrangeGuy, rather than BECAUSE OF ??? 200,000,000 people in the workforce...and THAT god-forsaken fool is the reason we're thriving ? I'll credit the other 199,999,999 workers, if you don't mind.
MY idea of an Independent voter would have included the opportunity to vote for John Kasich , in 2016;
NOT Bernie Sanders in 2020.
Need additional info ?? I'll be here.

You're really showing your ignorance.

Lowering the personal and corporate income tax stimulated growth and caused a lot of companies that had left the country to come back. They also repatriated $Billions which are now working in the US, rather than some foreign country. He got rid of a lot of chickenshit regulations that cost businesses a lot of money and manpower to comply with them. He renegotiated trade deals with Japan, S. Korea, China & the USMCA. which helps keep businesses in the US and allowed us to benefit from these trade deals. These are just a few of the things the "orange man" has done, but you are obviously oblivious to them.

 

[BoilerMadness]

I really didn’t expect for the Republicans to be decent people, they wouldn’t be Republicans in the first place if that was the case.
I was just easily pointing out that SDBoiler’s claim, that it couldn’t be proven that they were specifically targeting Biden, is utterly absurd.

Perhaps it was corruption that they were targeting and "son of a bitch" they found Biden up to his armpits in it. One goes hand in hand with the other.
Biden's also used his position in government to make other relatives wealthy and selling influence is illegal. Just because he's been getting away with it for a long time, doesn't make it any less illegal.

 

[BoilerMadness]

I watched it live. If you’d been paying attention you would have known that the House managers knew the arguments the defense would lay out. Each point had already been raised and thoroughly debunked in the previous days. It was a really short presentation since they don’t have any factual arguments to refute all the evidence that had been laid out. Trump is counting on all the Senate Republicans being as morally bankrupt as he is, I still do expect that he’s right in that assessment. Have you figured out yet if Biden was specifically being targeted? Able to crack the case on that one?

That is wishful thinking on your part . They didn't debunk any of that and you would know it, if you watched the "Schiff Show". They have NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE to support their contentions, which is why they desperately want the Senate to issue subpoenas in hopes that they can find something, anything that supports their spurious case.

As I said before, they know that they don't have sufficient evidence to get Trump removed. They just want to muddy him up and then push the narrative of "Cover Up" to try to beat 4 vulnerable Republican Senators to put Schumer in charge of the Senate. It's blatantly obvious that it's a power grab to anyone with a functioning brain capable of even rudimentary thought. Mindless indoctrinated Left Wing drones need not apply...

 

[pcboiler]

I watched his testimony. In the morning, when the Dems were questioning him, he said that there was quid pro quo. In the afternoon, he was asked directly, if the President told him that there was quid pro quo and he admitted that he had PRESUMED that there was, but after talking with the President later, he was told that there was no expectation of quid pro quo.

Your comment implies he thought there was QPQ, he talked to the President and was told there wasn't, then he changed his mind. Sondland didn't presume quid pro quo until after the other witness testimony came out and to this day, still believes there was QPQ.

 

[indy35]

Perhaps it was corruption that they were targeting and "son of a bitch" they found Biden up to his armpits in it. One goes hand in hand with the other.
Biden's also used his position in government to make other relatives wealthy and selling influence is illegal. Just because he's been getting away with it for a long time, doesn't make it any less illegal.

What other corruption have they targeted in Ukraine? What companies and individuals have they been looking at? Your stance is utterly ridiculous and not backed up by any facts or documentation. If they were looking at corruption overall there'd be something to back that up, every single thing they've done has targeted the Bidens. Nice try though.

 

[indy35]

FOX carried the House Dems live for the first day and part of the second. When they determined that they were just repeating themselves, they went to the dual pictures. If anything significant occurred, they would go back to the House Dems.
I realized in the first day, that if Schiif were Pinocchio, his nose would have traversed the Earth at least twice. That lad and the truth have never met.

If you haven't figured it out yet, the 20+ hours the Dems spent pumping out their propaganda wasn't done for the benefit of the Senate. It was done for any potential voters that tuned in, so they could get inundated with a lot of Trump innuendo and misinformation. Of course CNN & MSNBC are going to slobber up every second of it, regardless of it's newsworthiness. They're the marketing arm of the DNC.

I'm sure a few heads exploded at CNN & MSNBC, after carrying two whole hours of the President's attorneys blowing up the House Dem's case.

Pelosi's biggest problem was going against here better judgment and letting Schiff talk her into the Impeachment. She's been around Schiff long enough to know that he can NOT tell the truth. It's going to cost the Dems the House and Old Nancy will retire.

That's what right wing propaganda has told you to believe, you don't have to be brain dead and buy it though.

 

[70boiler]

I hope you're smarter than you appear in some of your posts. The President blocked the subpoenas, because they weren't legal...

While a talking point of Trump lawyers and supporters its underlying premise is incorrect. This argument relies upon the belief that subpoenae directed to Executive personnel and documents by Congress have their only valid basis in impeachment proceedings. That simply is not the law.
Congress has a Constitutional oversight authority over the Executive extending far beyond the Impeachment process. This Library of Congress Site provides a brief primer on the subject.

 

[70boiler]

...The WH lawyers notified Pelosi & Schiff that they were ignoring the subpoenas and why, but they never remedied the situation. .

Are you referencing the October 8, 2019 letter?

 

[SDBoiler1]

While a talking point of Trump lawyers and supporters its underlying premise is incorrect. This argument relies upon the belief that subpoenae directed to Executive personnel and documents by Congress have their only valid basis in impeachment proceedings. That simply is not the law.
Congress has a Constitutional oversight authority over the Executive extending far beyond the Impeachment process. This Library of Congress Site provides a brief primer on the subject.

Your statement could be construed to make it sound as if Congress has more than co-equal power over the other two branches of government. We all know that's not true.

 

[70boiler]

Your statement could be construed to make it sound as if Congress has more than co-equal power over the other two branches of government. We all know that's not true.

I suppose it could be construed to being favorable to the belief that the moon is made of green cheese, too. I really don't believe it serves to promote either of those.
My post and the accompanying link are the historic, traditional and legal norm concerning Congressional oversight.
The standard was the same for the Benghazi, Fast and Furious, IRS Targeting and Solyndra investigations of the Obama Administration by Congressional Republicans.

 

[glidresquirrel]

You're really showing your ignorance.

Lowering the personal and corporate income tax stimulated growth and caused a lot of companies that had left the country to come back. They also repatriated $Billions which are now working in the US, rather than some foreign country. He got rid of a lot of chickenshit regulations that cost businesses a lot of money and manpower to comply with them. He renegotiated trade deals with Japan, S. Korea, China & the USMCA. which helps keep businesses in the US and allowed us to benefit from these trade deals. These are just a few of the things the "orange man" has done, but you are obviously oblivious to them.

W has no alternatives to showing his ignorance.

 

[doubleyous]

You're really showing your ignorance.

Lowering the personal and corporate income tax stimulated growth and caused a lot of companies that had left the country to come back. They also repatriated $Billions which are now working in the US, rather than some foreign country. He got rid of a lot of chickenshit regulations that cost businesses a lot of money and manpower to comply with them. He renegotiated trade deals with Japan, S. Korea, China & the USMCA. which helps keep businesses in the US and allowed us to benefit from these trade deals. These are just a few of the things the "orange man" has done, but you are obviously oblivious to them.

1) Your conclusion being, here, is that Donald Trump was the brainchild and driving force behind the Tax Package and Trade Deals ??!!
2) Trump's entire Executive Branch, plus both GOP House and Senate ('till 2019), provided the institutions through which the expected turn in our economic policy would travel. The country has already been sufficiently educated as to Trump's intellectual, knowledge, and vision levels...to be able to
give him the appropriate amount of PERSONAL credit due.
3) The right-of center governing policies, philosophies, and leaders of this country, will continue forever to be given alternate time-periods to run our country. No problem. Just don't shine the spotlight on a political leader who's claim to fame is as shallow as Trump's.

 

[atlboiler2156]

Just in case any comrades were afraid to open the Eric Ciaramella thread, here’s an informative read on a real cover up.

https://www.realclearinvestigations...ing_with_ally_how_to_remove_trump_121701.html

 

[glidresquirrel]

Just in case any comrades were afraid to open the Eric Ciaramella thread, here’s an informative read on a real cover up.

https://www.realclearinvestigations...ing_with_ally_how_to_remove_trump_121701.html

They have no interest in reading it, it would destroy their entire world if the real truth comes out. Just think how many hrs a day some of these fools spend looking to find some article that goes with their agenda. W and 35 BB none of them know what the truth is . They live to post crap on a message board and validate their lives somehow

 

[atlboiler2156]

They have no interest in reading it, it would destroy their entire world if the real truth comes out. Just think how many hrs a day some of these fools spend looking to find some article that goes with their agenda. W and 35 BB none of them know what the truth is . They live to post crap on a message board and validate their lives somehow

Verification via message board is critical to out of touch individuals. Pretty sad when you think about it.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Your comment implies he thought there was QPQ, he talked to the President and was told there wasn't, then he changed his mind. Sondland didn't presume quid pro quo until after the other witness testimony came out and to this day, still believes there was QPQ.

l
That's a crock. I didn't imply anything. I stated a fact.

All the other witnesses were hearsay witnesses that had been "told" there was quid pro quo and Sondland was the source, either first hand or second hand, because he had PRESUMED that there would be. None of the other alleged witnesses had any first hand knowledge of quid pro quo. I watched the testimony. If you had watched the WH lawyers Saturday, they showed the clip of Sondland admitting that he had PRESUMED quid pro quo and was later told by the President, when he asked what he wanted from Ukraine, "I want nothing. No quid pro quo." You are completely wrong. It makes a lot of difference, if you actually watch the testimony, rather than relying on a chronic liar like Adam Schiff to tell you what happened.

Watch the two hour rebuttal from the WH lawyers, which is probably on Youtube. You can see it for yourself.

 

[BoilerMadness]

What other corruption have they targeted in Ukraine? What companies and individuals have they been looking at? Your stance is utterly ridiculous and not backed up by any facts or documentation. If they were looking at corruption overall there'd be something to back that up, every single thing they've done has targeted the Bidens. Nice try though.

What's amusing is that you're upset that Trump may have investigated Biden for corruption, but you're not at all upset by the fact that Biden is corrupt. Interesting...

Perhaps, if Biden hadn't been so arrogant and felt the need to brag about getting the prosecutor fired, he wouldn't have drawn attention to himself.

 

[doubleyous]

I hope you're smarter than you appear in some of your posts. The President blocked the subpoenas, because they weren't legal. Pelosi announced the impeachment at a press briefing. The House voted to commence the impeachment. The House neglected to confer the power of subpoenas to the committees, which was a gross oversight on Pelosi's part and rendered any subpoenas they issued invalid. Thus, the WH could ignore them without penalty. The WH lawyers notified Pelosi & Schiff that they were ignoring the subpoenas and why, but they never remedied the situation. More proof that they were never serious about winning the impeachment. They just wanted to smear Trump as much as possible to, hopefully, render him unelectable. It's really transparent to anyone, who can look at it objectively.

You don't think trying to invalidate an election and keep Trump's name off the ballot in the next election is a power grab? You're right. Power grab is understating the case. It's more properly called a COUP. The Dems are trying to make us a Third World country. Open the borders and have Presidential Coups. I wonder if they're going to run on those issues?

Let's look at what the House has done.
They're trying to Impeach the President for Obstructing Congress, when the House obstructed itself, by not voting to give the committees the authorization to issue subpoenas. The President followed the rules by ignoring them.
They're trying to Impeach the President for Abuse of Power, when there is no factual proof that it occurred. Everything they have offered as proof is hearsay evidence. The ONLY fact witness that they interviewed, Ambassador Sondland, admitted that the President told him "He wanted nothing from Ukraine. No quid pro quo". The President of Ukraine said that he was never pressured to do anything. The transcript didn't indicate that there was any pressure.

Schiff, Nadler and Pelosi all said that they had "Overwhelming " evidence that Trump was guilty, yet the first thing they do, when they appear before the Senate, is request that the Senate subpoena documents and witnesses. Why would you need that if your case was already "Overwhelming"? Then in a monumental act of stupidity, they tell the Senators that if they don't subpoena the documents and the witnesses, that the Senators would be complicit in the "Cover Up". That's a great way to ingratiate yourselves with the people that are going to judge the case. Understanding that they already know the outcome, you know that it won't matter, whether the Senate issues subpoenas or not. Trump is not going to be found guilty, since this case is a joke and a sham. When the Senate votes in Trump's favor, Schiff, Pelosi & Nadler will run to the nearest cameras and proclaim that the fix is in and that the Senate ignored their "Overwhelming" evidence and are just part of the "Cover Up". Of course, the MSM will trumpet their outrage, since they are just the marketing wing of the DNC.

Don't confuse me with you, W and 35. I'm not a mindless little drone like you guys are, who can't recognize the difference between a political hit job and an actual abuse of power. I'm not a big fan of Trump, the person, but he has done enough good things for the country that I'm supporting him for reelection. I'm not blind to his flaws, but you guys are apparently totally blind to everything that he's done for our country. I've never experienced blind hatred like that in my life and I hope I never do.

Quite a multi-post dissertation of yours, here on page 8 of this thread. Dedication to the task has to be
acknowledged.
Your forgiveness, therefore, will be asked for my reply - here- involving but ONE sentence of all of
the points you were making.
" The Dem(ocrats) are trying to make us a third world country". You wrote.
Quite an accusation. But then I thought, WHAT IF the Dems. adopt the governing philosophies of a third-world nation such as....oh, I don't know.....SOMALIA !!
Can see it now !! 20 yr. plan calling for the eventual reduction of our CURRENT GDP of around
Twenty-one TRILLION dollars...….to that of Somalia's 7 1/2 billion.....
Not going to be easy...Wall St. will put up a political fight.
But more importantly, the new Democratic Party-led US will be able to engage in regularly scheduled OVERTHROWS of the government !!......with a side benefit of watching millions of US citizens fight dogs, in the street, for scraps of food !!

You're ON to something with this "Third-world" stuff, BM....
Keep us informed !!

 

[indy35]

What's amusing is that you're upset that Trump may have investigated Biden for corruption, but you're not at all upset by the fact that Biden is corrupt. Interesting...

Perhaps, if Biden hadn't been so arrogant and felt the need to brag about getting the prosecutor fired, he wouldn't have drawn attention to himself.

Except you can’t point to any actual corruption or anything unlawful. Biden was doing the typical politician thing and wanting to take credit for a policy that was wanted throughout the world with our allies. He wasn’t running any shadow policy, he wasn’t trying to dig up dirt on anyone here to use in an election. They were cleaning up corruption in Ukraine and Biden wanted to grab a little credit for himself by bragging about the prosecutor. I know you’re used to Trump word vomiting every awful thing he’s ever done, but don’t you think Biden is a little more aware that if he was doing something shady, he wouldn’t be bragging about it in front of a bunch of people and on video?

 

[glidresquirrel]

What's amusing is that you're upset that Trump may have investigated Biden for corruption, but you're not at all upset by the fact that Biden is corrupt. Interesting...

Perhaps, if Biden hadn't been so arrogant and felt the need to brag about getting the prosecutor fired, he wouldn't have drawn attention to himself.

You have W and 35 tag teaming you ! Good job! They get so upset when their little world gets invaded by actual facts!

 

[SDBoiler1]

I suppose it could be construed to being favorable to the belief that the moon is made of green cheese, too. I really don't believe it serves to promote either of those.
My post and the accompanying link are the historic, traditional and legal norm concerning Congressional oversight.
The standard was the same for the Benghazi, Fast and Furious, IRS Targeting and Solyndra investigations of the Obama Administration by Congressional Republicans.

The House of Representatives did not act in a way that has been considered a historical, traditional, and normal fashion in regard to its impeachment inquiry into Trump. The way Schiff, Nadler, and Pelosi ran the impeachment inquiry was unlike any ever seen. It was not done in a deliberate or bi-partisan way. Schiff had hearings/depositions in basement rooms which most often Republicans and the President's counsel were not even allowed to attend. The President was not afforded due process as is normal and historical in these inquiries.

 

[BoilerMadness]

That's what right wing propaganda has told you to believe, you don't have to be brain dead and buy it though.

Get over yourself. You haven't had an original thought in your life. Everything you say is a result of your programming and indoctrination.
All you have to so is look at the sequence of events, since Trump was elected. He was a loose canon that they couldn't control, so he had to be eliminated, hence the WAPO talking about his impeachments 19 minutes, after he was announced as the 45th President.
Trump has been accused of everything under the sun and they've had multiple votes on impeachment in the house for all manner of absurd reasons.
They thought they were going to get him for Russian Collusion, but the Mueller Report couldn't find any evidence to support it.
Congressman Al Green is on the record saying, "We can't beat him, so we have to impeach him." early on in his Presidency.
Trying to tie this impeachment to the Ukraine phone call was an act of desperation, since the clock was running out.
Anyone with more than 2 brain cells knew that Trump was NOT going to be convicted in the Republican controlled Senate, so why did they do it anyway?
The only thing they could do was muddy Trump up and hope they could sway enough voters that he was too corrupt to be reelected.
Then they started the COVER UP narrative, so they could try to manipulate the Senators and have a talking point, when the charges were ultimately dismissed.

That's not propaganda, that's just observing what has been occurring and understanding why it happened. It's called thinking. You may want to try it some time.

 

[indy35]

Get over yourself. You haven't had an original thought in your life. Everything you say is a result of your programming and indoctrination.
All you have to so is look at the sequence of events, since Trump was elected. He was a loose canon that they couldn't control, so he had to be eliminated, hence the WAPO talking about his impeachments 19 minutes, after he was announced as the 45th President.
Trump has been accused of everything under the sun and they've had multiple votes on impeachment in the house for all manner of absurd reasons.
They thought they were going to get him for Russian Collusion, but the Mueller Report couldn't find any evidence to support it.
Congressman Al Green is on the record saying, "We can't beat him, so we have to impeach him." early on in his Presidency.
Trying to tie this impeachment to the Ukraine phone call was an act of desperation, since the clock was running out.
Anyone with more than 2 brain cells knew that Trump was NOT going to be convicted in the Republican controlled Senate, so why did they do it anyway?
The only thing they could do was muddy Trump up and hope they could sway enough voters that he was too corrupt to be reelected.
Then they started the COVER UP narrative, so they could try to manipulate the Senators and have a talking point, when the charges were ultimately dismissed.

That's not propaganda, that's just observing what has been occurring and understanding why it happened. It's called thinking. You may want to try it some time.

Fox News regurgitated, nearly word for word. You have some serious soul searching to do, literally everything you accuse someone else of, perfectly describes you.

 

[70boiler]

The House of Representatives did not act in a way that has been considered a historical, traditional, and normal fashion in regard to its impeachment inquiry into Trump. The way Schiff, Nadler, and Pelosi ran the impeachment inquiry was unlike any ever seen. It was not done in a deliberate or bi-partisan way. Schiff had hearings/depositions in basement rooms which most often Republicans and the President's counsel were not even allowed to attend. The President was not afforded due process as is normal and historical in these inquiries.

With all due respect your comment was referencing my post not the actions of a Committee-

While a talking point of Trump lawyers and supporters its underlying premise is incorrect. This argument relies upon the belief that subpoenae directed to Executive personnel and documents by Congress have their only valid basis in impeachment proceedings. That simply is not the law.
Congress has a Constitutional oversight authority over the Executive extending far beyond the Impeachment process. This Library of Congress Site provides a brief primer on the subject.

Your statement could be construed to make it sound as if Congress has more than co-equal power over the other two branches of government. We all know that's not true.

I suppose it could be construed to being favorable to the belief that the moon is made of green cheese, too. I really don't believe it serves to promote either of those.
My post and the accompanying link are the historic, traditional and legal norm concerning Congressional oversight.
The standard was the same for the Benghazi, Fast and Furious, IRS Targeting and Solyndra investigations of the Obama Administration by Congressional Republicans.

 

[BoilerMadness]

While a talking point of Trump lawyers and supporters its underlying premise is incorrect. This argument relies upon the belief that subpoenae directed to Executive personnel and documents by Congress have their only valid basis in impeachment proceedings. That simply is not the law.
Congress has a Constitutional oversight authority over the Executive extending far beyond the Impeachment process. This Library of Congress Site provides a brief primer on the subject.

"Congress may compel the disclosure of documents or require the attendance and testimony of witnesses at hearings through the issuance of subpoenas."

You're right that Congress does have oversight responsibilities and can use subpoenas to get information from the Executive Branch. Committees, however, can't arbitrarily do it, unless Congress has expressly delegated that authority to them, which they did NOT in this case. It allows Congress to closely control committees, so they don't go rogue.

Pelosi is pretty sharp, so I'm starting to think it may have been intentional, rather than an oversight. This way they can have the issue (Trump thinks he's a Monarch and is so arrogant that he's shunning Congress), since there are no facts they could have gotten to cause this impeachment to be valid. It adds to their narrative about how despicable Trump is and gives them a good talking point.

 

[BoilerMadness]

1) Your conclusion being, here, is that Donald Trump was the brainchild and driving force behind the Tax Package and Trade Deals ??!!
2) Trump's entire Executive Branch, plus both GOP House and Senate ('till 2019), provided the institutions through which the expected turn in our economic policy would travel. The country has already been sufficiently educated as to Trump's intellectual, knowledge, and vision levels...to be able to
give him the appropriate amount of PERSONAL credit due.
3) The right-of center governing policies, philosophies, and leaders of this country, will continue forever to be given alternate time-periods to run our country. No problem. Just don't shine the spotlight on a political leader who's claim to fame is as shallow as Trump's.

Nice feeble attempt.

Trump, for all his flaws, understands business and marketing. Granted, he has a good staff that works out a lot of the details, but don't forget for a minute, that he's in the driver's seat and he's controlling where the country is going. Most of the things he did were actually campaign promises, which he kept, unlike too many other politicians.

It's funny how all this stuff is occurring on his watch and you actively avoid giving him credit for any of it.

 

[glidresquirrel]

Fox News regurgitated, nearly word for word. You have some serious soul searching to do, literally everything you accuse someone else of, perfectly describes you.

You puke CNN MSNBC 24/7 get over yourself, go cuddle with W

 

[SDBoiler1]

With all due respect your comment was referencing my post not the actions of a Committee-

Sorry, but I don’t follow you. I thought you were talking to Congressional oversight of other branches of government (specifically the Executive Branch). The committees are not part of Congressional oversight? (In this case Ds not following historical norms in Impeachment inquiries?)

My apologies if I missed your point in the previous post. Thought you had moved on......

 

[indy35]

The House of Representatives did not act in a way that has been considered a historical, traditional, and normal fashion in regard to its impeachment inquiry into Trump. The way Schiff, Nadler, and Pelosi ran the impeachment inquiry was unlike any ever seen. It was not done in a deliberate or bi-partisan way. Schiff had hearings/depositions in basement rooms which most often Republicans and the President's counsel were not even allowed to attend. The President was not afforded due process as is normal and historical in these inquiries.

Fox News has been using “basement rooms” to sound ominous. They met in a SCIF obviously, and that’s where it was. Were they going to hold the hearings in a park on a nice sunny day? Lol, don’t be so easily misled. Also it’s a complete lie to say Republicans weren’t allowed in the meetings. Another right wing false propaganda point. There’s evidence that Republicans were in the room, how did you fall for that?

 

[BoilerMadness]

Quite a multi-post dissertation of yours, here on page 8 of this thread. Dedication to the task has to be
acknowledged.
Your forgiveness, therefore, will be asked for my reply - here- involving but ONE sentence of all of
the points you were making.
" The Dem(ocrats) are trying to make us a third world country". You wrote.
Quite an accusation. But then I thought, WHAT IF the Dems. adopt the governing philosophies of a third-world nation such as....oh, I don't know.....SOMALIA !!
Can see it now !! 20 yr. plan calling for the eventual reduction of our CURRENT GDP of around
Twenty-one TRILLION dollars...….to that of Somalia's 7 1/2 billion.....
Not going to be easy...Wall St. will put up a political fight.
But more importantly, the new Democratic Party-led US will be able to engage in regularly scheduled OVERTHROWS of the government !!......with a side benefit of watching millions of US citizens fight dogs, in the street, for scraps of food !!

You're ON to something with this "Third-world" stuff, BM....
Keep us informed !!

We've got 20-30+ million illegals in the country with more coming every day and the Dems are fighting tooth & nail to keep the gates open. We have sanctuary cities/states, where illegals seem to have more rights than citizens. We have multiple cities with homeless populations filling the streets and feces and needles everywhere. We have Dems offering the "Green New Deal", Free college, Free healthcare and Free anything else they can give away to win votes and gain control. We have Dem politicians, who are Socialists and they will destroy our economy, because all their priorities are anti-business. We have a Democrat controlled House that is overseeing a coup on our current President. Yeah, it's not that big a reach to see them destroy this great country in their misguided attempt to gain power. It wasn't that long ago that Venezuela was one of the wealthiest counties in the world. Now people are eating their pets to stay alive. That's the reality of Socialism that so many idealistic, impressionable young people don't understand.

FYI, this Impeachment is a prime example of why the Founding Fathers put such a high bar on removing a President by Impeachment. They were afraid that there would be a partisan attempt to remove a President of the opposing party, which is why it requires 2/3 of the Senate to vote him out. Didn't Pelosi say that she needed overwhelming evidence and a bipartisan vote in the House to initiate the Impeachment proceedings? She had neither, yet here we are...

 

[BoilerMadness]

Except you can’t point to any actual corruption or anything unlawful. Biden was doing the typical politician thing and wanting to take credit for a policy that was wanted throughout the world with our allies. He wasn’t running any shadow policy, he wasn’t trying to dig up dirt on anyone here to use in an election. They were cleaning up corruption in Ukraine and Biden wanted to grab a little credit for himself by bragging about the prosecutor. I know you’re used to Trump word vomiting every awful thing he’s ever done, but don’t you think Biden is a little more aware that if he was doing something shady, he wouldn’t be bragging about it in front of a bunch of people and on video?

Funny, Biden isn't aware of what city he's in half the time, let alone anything else. He's been getting away with enriching his family by selling influence for so long that he's just gotten arrogant and stupid. What I find laughable is the thought that Trump is even remotely afraid of facing bumbling Joe in the 2020 election. That would be a gift for Trump.

The Dems impeaching Trump for attempting to take out Biden is as ludicrous as thinking a kid would burn all his Christmas presents. Why? Biden is no threat. The thought of bumbling Joe debating Trump would be high comedy at it's finest.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Fox News regurgitated, nearly word for word. You have some serious soul searching to do, literally everything you accuse someone else of, perfectly describes you.

How would you know? If you spent some time on FOX News, you wouldn't be so ignorant. You still haven't figured out that just because you don't want to believe something, it doesn't make it less true.

 

[pcboiler]

l
That's a crock. I didn't imply anything. I stated a fact.

All the other witnesses were hearsay witnesses that had been "told" there was quid pro quo and Sondland was the source, either first hand or second hand, because he had PRESUMED that there would be. None of the other alleged witnesses had any first hand knowledge of quid pro quo. I watched the testimony. If you had watched the WH lawyers Saturday, they showed the clip of Sondland admitting that he had PRESUMED quid pro quo and was later told by the President, when he asked what he wanted from Ukraine, "I want nothing. No quid pro quo." You are completely wrong. It makes a lot of difference, if you actually watch the testimony, rather than relying on a chronic liar like Adam Schiff to tell you what happened.

Watch the two hour rebuttal from the WH lawyers, which is probably on Youtube. You can see it for yourself.

I've watched all the testimony, including on Saturday. Sondland was asked if he was directed by the President directly to withhold aid. He admitted he was not, therefor he was presuming that's what the President wanted. I know exactly what clip you are talking about and I agree with what you are saying.

Sondland was given the direction from Rudy Giuliani. Giuliani asked for the quid pro quo, and Sondland presumed it was at the President's request.

 

[indy35]

How would you know? If you spent some time on FOX News, you wouldn't be so ignorant. You still haven't figured out that just because you don't want to believe something, it doesn't make it less true.

Total propaganda, its turned right wing brains to complete mush.

 

[atlboiler2156]

I’m able to honestly look at facts and make an assessment. I don’t have to be dishonest to create an alternate reality like you guys do.

Seek help. This isn’t healthy. You’re being dishonest with yourself vehemently defending the state who already has control over your mind. You’re so unhappy. Will put you on the prayer request list at church.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Total propaganda, its turned right wing brains to complete mush.

Keep telling yourself that. You believe everything that Adam Schiff says. Try doing some fact checking on Schiff. You'll find if his lips are moving, he's lying. You're blinded by your desperate need to stay true to your ideology. You're proving incapable of objective thought. Try questioning your belief system occasionally. I do it all the time. You're so blindly accepting of everything that the Left puts out, that it's made you oblivious to the difference between fact and fiction.

 

[70boiler]

"Congress may compel the disclosure of documents or require the attendance and testimony of witnesses at hearings through the issuance of subpoenas."

You're right that Congress does have oversight responsibilities and can use subpoenas to get information from the Executive Branch. Committees, however, can't arbitrarily do it, unless Congress has expressly delegated that authority to them, which they did NOT in this case. It allows Congress to closely control committees, so they don't go rogue.

Pelosi is pretty sharp, so I'm starting to think it may have been intentional, rather than an oversight. This way they can have the issue (Trump thinks he's a Monarch and is so arrogant that he's shunning Congress), since there are no facts they could have gotten to cause this impeachment to be valid. It adds to their narrative about how despicable Trump is and gives them a good talking point.

My recollection is that standing committees have subpoenae powers and that the chairmen of most standing committees do as well. Am I mistaken?
I also seem to recall some of the correspondence back and forth indicating that any subpoenae related to the relevant committee investigations as well as the possibility of impeachment proceedings.
I don't have time to check on those at the moment to confirm my recollection.

 

[atlboiler2156]

Keep telling yourself that. You believe everything that Adam Schiff says. Try doing some fact checking on Schiff. You'll find if his lips are moving, he's lying. You're blinded by your desperate need to stay true to your ideology. You're proving incapable of objective thought. Try questioning your belief system occasionally. I do it all the time. You're so blindly accepting of everything that the Left puts out, that it's made you oblivious to the difference between fact and fiction.

It’s depressing that somebody is so controlled by a political party. That’s their goal though, complete power and control. Scary stuff.