As a Frosh early on the kid looked great, some even said NBA potential one day. He gets hurt, gets Covid, since then he hasn’t gotten any better, looks like he’s regressed. Furst is really quick, can shoot the ball, is athletic, what seems to be the problem with him? I want him to be a guy that logs 20 minutes a night, playing like he did on Saturday wasn’t justification for this. I realize it’s one game, but damn, Purdue needs more out of him than that. Kid is 6-10, tons of quickness, he needs to be a 10/6 guy nightly, hopefully, this was a blip, starting to wonder if we’ve already saw the best of Furst early on his Frosh year.
Caleb Furst
- Thread starter purduedavie
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I have never seen the play that one would characterize Furst as really quick....or % wise can shoot for that matter??
Would agree we need more out of the 4.
I went to tons of games, maybe really quick was the wrong word, how about pretty quick, trust me, he’s not slow at all. For 6-10 he can shoot the ball, he’s not a Ted Kitchell but he has a nice stroke. Early his Frosh year he looked really good, ever since he hurt his foot and preceded to get Covid he hasn’t been the same in my opinion. I know this, 0 points and 2 rebounds in 13 minutes won’t work.
He's an excellent athlete for his size and has shown that he can shoot it on low volume (42% from three freshman year). Agree that he's shown he's capable of more that what's he's produced recently, hopefully that changes.
I will stand by this: Purdue's best run of play against FDU was when Furst was in there early in the second half and Purdue ran the floor with him.
And Purdue best run of play ALL SEASON was when Furst was playing a lot and running the floor and being a significant factor. He has a nice touch but it does not seem to extend to the 3 pt line. Camping him out there to clear the lane for Zach is a brutal waste of a 6'10" physical player. But what are you gonna do? He disappears against guys that are much quicker than him, just like us.
Like many I jumped on the TKR train when he looked so good in the scrimmage but like Caleb he just doesn't fit as well with Zach as he does spelling Zach.
I still like Zach/Mason - Caleb/Trey combos like we did first 1/2 of last season when we were beating up on teams. (remember that?) Mason has the 3 pt touch to camp at the line and requiring other team to guard him close. Caleb does not. Let the big dog run the floor and do what he does best. Both he and Trey seem to play better with each other than with Zach. (early for TKR to be sure) JMO
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Furst should be playing the 5 and not the 4.
The 5 is his ideal position. He's not skilled enough/not consistent enough as a shooter to play the 4. His athleticism and quickness for his size would create a ton of mismatches if he played the 5, similar to what Omoruyi on Rutgers does.
Pikell uses Omoruyi how Painter should be using Furst. But Purdue has Painter, so it is what it is.
Unfortunately, because of the way Painter has built the roster -- with a logjam of talented big men -- it forces guys like Furst to play in suboptimal positions next to Zach.
Until Zach leaves, this is just the reality.
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WTF, are you using the fact that Purdue has the NPOY at center as a knock against Painter? 🤣
Not a knock. As great of an individual award NPOY, it doesn't do much for Purdue as a team if they keep getting beat early in the tournament.
Unfortunately, and I'm well aware of how ridiculous this might sound, and it's not really a "knock" on Painter, but when you build a basketball team in 2023 around a back-to-the-basket, traditional big man, it has the potential to negatively impact other players. Furst is one player whose game, unfortunately, is hurt by the presence of Edey, NPOY or not.
Might be the best idea when I think about it, have Caleb and TKR head up the second unit.
He disappears against guys that are much quicker than him, just like us.
Which is why Furst needs to play the 5, and not the 4. Furst is quicker/more explosive than most 5s.
Some good responses, thanks, I remember watching Caleb early in his career, I was like this kid is a stud, I really hope it clicks in for him this year. If he only plays the 5 that likely means only 10 minutes a game for him this year, that would be brutal, hoping he gets near 20 per.
Is your argument that if Zach weren't on the team last year and Caleb were playing the five instead that the team would have been better positioned to make a FF run?
if a kid like him can only get 10 mins/nt maybe a RS yr would have been a better option
Yea, if he’s playing 10 minutes a night does he play here next year? I realize Center opens up but this would be one rough Jr year. Guessing he’ll get closer to 20 minutes a game, we’ll see.
What part of the game was that?....the only thing I remember about that game was when Zach went out, fdu controlled the boards...when furst went in in the 2nd half, we were up by 3....we got it to 6 but fdu quickly came back....not sure where furst was the catalyst?....
We're not going to be the quickest team, but we should always have an advantage at the 4 and 5 positions....when edey is in we should be playing Gillis and heide at the 4....when edey is out, we should be playing furst and tkr exclusively at the 4 and 5....that way we're always going to an issue for the opposing team underneath....
fortunately, because Painter was friggin brilliant, he hit Big Time with a kid that nobody else even heard of.
Back ONLY because he may not fit the nba, the returning NPOY is STILL demanding 30+ minutes a game with his play.
There, fixed it.
Never said Painter wasn't good at finding underrated talent. He deserves a ton of credit for that.
Now go be brilliant and not lose to a double-digit seed in March with the NPOY on your roster. Hopefully he figures it out soon!
Agree. I think this will be a HUGE key.
When Edey is out, Painter HAS to maximise TKR and Furst at the 5.
Naturally, there will be some trial and error, but depending on the matchup, Painter may even have to leverage that "smaller" lineup -- with TKR or Furst at the 5 spot -- more than he'd like.
Will be interesting to see if CMP has changed at all after how last season ended and based on his offseason comments about him being the "common demoninator" in the early tourney exits.
He seems to be a pretty happy go lucky kid, which is completely fine, but lacks a sense of urgency for sure.
this x1000000. Painter has constructed this roster horribly. You have 4 (4!!!!) guys who all need to play the 5 spot to be utilized to their full talent. Then you have 1 (1!!!!!) true shooting guard on the team that can space the floor consistently.
Look if you are going to play like the '09 Orlando Magic (which is how Painter wants to play except for the Carson junior year which oh by the way was his BEST year) then you need to have shooters! Effective shooters! The only other 3 pt shooter I would even put in the same breath as Loyer is Smith but Smith is usually too tired to be an effective shooter by midway through the 2nd half. All the rest of the guards/stretch forwards don't have any consistent offensive game beyond 10 ft.
If just kills me Painter couldn't go find a shooter in the off season. Back the NIL Brinks truck up and dump money on his door! But too late now. Instead we got a great defender who probably will be a sub 30% 3-pt shooter this year and will be sagged off on come March. Then some little guard will torch everyone on the team and score 40 pts and knock ole knucklehead out of the tournament in round 1 or 2 again.
Rise lather and repeat in March. Litterally nothing has changed from last year in terms of roster construction.
Painter's recruiting sales poster should be Carsen Edwards not Haas/Hammons/Biggie/Edey. Go get guys like Carsen.
And he did! Way too many centers. This isn’t 1990.
The dynamic talent at guard is severely lacking.
Your point is right but the way you’re saying it is dead wrong. Lack of guard talent may be an issue and in any case is too reliant upon Smith and Loyer’s development. There is zero correlation between that fact and the perception of ‘top much’ talent in bigs.
Colvin-shooter, Heide-shooter, loyer-shooter, Smith-shooter, Gillis-shooter, jones, Waddell TBD....we got enough shooters...just need to find the right fit for them all....
I believe Furst is very talented and has potential to excel and be a team leader on the court! I also believe that timing has been awful for what I said above to be true and accomplish this at Purdue with Painters coaching style. Edey unexpectedly happened and almost all offensive focus shifted to him as the focus and this really doesn’t mesh well with Fursts success or play to his strengths. He’s done what good team players do and try to adapt to become the role player he’s been asked to be! No offensive sets or plays designed for him or to capitalize on his individual strengths. Nothing but being a solid support player that can be relied on not to hurt the team and provide quality minutes toward team success and he appears to do so without complaining.
So it's Matt's fault that TKR's post game is more evolved than the rest of his game? Cuz he's a forward playing center, not a center. You're wrong about the guards, and time (games) will show that.
I watched the kid grow into a Boiler recruit and really had higher expectations of early success which do show up from time to time. And certainly being a rotation player as a fr/so on a very good team is nothing to sneeze at!
But playing on the perimeter to open the lane for Zach does him no favors. He would be a consistent rebounder if he spent more time not 20' from the basket.
As you said, plugging the holes, setting the picks, etc Was probably the top rated center coming in and expected (by all) to be the guy by now. Zach happens!!
Caleb is much more talented than he's shown so far. A crafty and efficient passer that an offense can run through as needed. But he seldom seems to slow down enough to play relaxed to this point. Sometimes reminds me of Gene's teams, trying so hard that they tie themselves up at times.
When Zach is gone and he plays full time, slows down and relaxes. he's going to surprise people. He has a real nice baby hook shot that we've seldom/never seen.
How is there zero correlation?
Purdue has more talent in its frontcourt, particular in the form of three guys (Edey, TKR, Furst) whose ideal position is the 5 spot, and that doesn't even include Berg.
Instead of having a logjam like that, it may have been better to spend more time/energy/recruiting resources on locking in another dynamic guard.
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No, but it's on Painter to divy up recruiting resources (time, energy, money, etc.) and to decide on a strategy for who to recruit.
He spent resources on recruiting multiple big men whose primary position is the 5 position. By spending resources there, there are fewer resources to spend in other areas, like on guards.
This has now resulted in a roster that makes it difficult for two of this most talented players (TKR and Furst) to contribute optimally.
I certainly hope I'm wrong about the guards.
The Baby Boilers were not just elite because of the elite talent (although that was certainly part of it). They were elite because of how beautifully the pieces fit together.
The same goes for the team with Carsen, Haarms, Eifert, Nojel, etc. that nearly made a Final Four. The pieces fit very well together.
We will see if Painter can optimize the pieces with this team based on how the roster has been built.
Because you're assuming that the limiting factor in landing a dynamic guard is the time and energy spent by the coaching staff, it's not.
when Zach is gone... that gives Furst only one yr to show what he's got, Still think CMP should have had the "talk" w/ Morton after last year.
Great question! Some combination of missing on recruits and transfers, missing on player evaluations, JI leaving early and Painter's preference in players and recruiting approach?
That's a pretty crappy answer but I don't think it's one thing or a lack of trying or emphasis.
Not sure ‘what it is’ but it could definitely be looked at as a failure to balance his roster and have depth at important positions across his team. It seems as though he’s almost afraid to recruit high level guard talent in the portal that would compete with his recruited guards for a starting position and/or significant playing time. Even though it would likely benefit the team. No I’m not a fire painter or painter hater for what it’s worth.
No doubt that MP has failed to have a balanced roster. Not as bad this year as last but almost crazy that a program that's been as successful as Purdue started two true freshmen as guards last season.
He absolutely recruited high level guard talent in the portal prior to last season and missed on a bunch of them. Not saying that as an excuse for MP, but it wasn't for lack of trying. Going into this season he wasn't willing to promise a starting role and Purdue isn't willing to make big up front NIL guarantees (which I believe is still an NCAA recruiting violation) and those two factors took Purdue out of the running for high level guard transfers.
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