Maybe the President heard some general say that somebody made them feel at home in the Middle East, so he, with his self-noted immense intelligence as a stable genius, thought it was the same as sending the 14,000 home.
Abandoning the Kurds
- Thread starter indy35
- Start date
It appears more and more to be an obscenity.
A CNN report quotes a Kurd leader saying "You are leaving us to be slaughtered."
The report goes on to indicate
"He insisted the US either help stop the Turkish attack or allow the Syrian Democratic Forces to strike a deal with the Assad regime in Damascus and their Russian backers, allowing Russian warplanes to enforce a no-fly zone over northeast Syria, thereby denying Turkey the ability to carry out airstrikes. The US does not want the Kurds turning to the Russians, administration officials say."
In other words, I don't love you anymore, maybe I don't even like you, but you can't date anyone else...
A CNN report quotes a Kurd leader saying "You are leaving us to be slaughtered."
The report goes on to indicate
"He insisted the US either help stop the Turkish attack or allow the Syrian Democratic Forces to strike a deal with the Assad regime in Damascus and their Russian backers, allowing Russian warplanes to enforce a no-fly zone over northeast Syria, thereby denying Turkey the ability to carry out airstrikes. The US does not want the Kurds turning to the Russians, administration officials say."
In other words, I don't love you anymore, maybe I don't even like you, but you can't date anyone else...
This has a strange Cambodia feel to it. There aren't as many Kurds to exterminate as the Khmer Rouge had so it will be a smaller catastrophe, but the refusal to address it in the opening phase because of politics is familiar.
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New York Times Report including video of Turk supported militiamen executing Kurd prisoners.
The WaPo is indicating that American troops in the Kurd region report that Turks are deliberately "bracketing" them with artillery rounds
That is more related to the situation with the Navy not being able to fix the aircraft carrier that was scheduled to replace the leaving carrier group. Gr8 would know more about that in all likelihood. Not necessarily an increase.
But like I said, not one US Soldier should die protecting a Saudi oil field.
Well, people get mad and upset with Trump that he did not and does not listen to advisors. Fair enough, I wish politicians would listen more as well. But that JV team comment was not from intel sources-guarantee you that. Neither was Al Qaeda is dead.
"this is all playing out exactly as we predicted"
m.esper, on fox news sunday
Being correct is sadly not always in actuality an overall good thing. I am saddened that the subsequent facts seem to have born out the concern.
What is even sadder is who has access to superior quality advisers with all available information and who does not... ugh...
This chaos was so easily avoidable. All President Trump had to do was keep the status quo of relative peace - ISIS no longer had territory under their control and the Kurdish forces were established in NE Syria. It is not conceivable that Erdogan would initiate an offensive into Syria without a green light from Trump. The lack of warning to the Kurdish forces compounded an already horrible decision.
We have an impulsive and narcissistic President who neither possesses the desire to learn nor heeds the counsel of expertise (beyond the pundits on FoxNews). The hands of both Erdogan and Trump are covered in Kurdish blood.
We have an impulsive and narcissistic President who neither possesses the desire to learn nor heeds the counsel of expertise (beyond the pundits on FoxNews). The hands of both Erdogan and Trump are covered in Kurdish blood.
At least Secy. Esper has clarified on Face the Nation that the President is actually personally directing US withdrawal, and as is reported by USA Today that
President Trump had ordered a "deliberate withdrawal" of U.S. forces from northern Syria, an even more comprehensive withdrawal than had been previously ordered...and as Turkish troops continued their assault against Kurdish forces further than originally expected, the decision had been made to withdraw about 1,000 troops, rather than just the 50 who had been previously ordered to withdraw.
President Trump had ordered a "deliberate withdrawal" of U.S. forces from northern Syria, an even more comprehensive withdrawal than had been previously ordered...and as Turkish troops continued their assault against Kurdish forces further than originally expected, the decision had been made to withdraw about 1,000 troops, rather than just the 50 who had been previously ordered to withdraw.
Well, apparently SA is paying someone for the troops.......according to Trump. Would that have happened if the carrier was able to deploy?
Great news! ISIS prisoners are already being let loose as Turkish led forces attack the Kurds.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/syria-isis-supporters-escape-camp-kurds
This is going great!
https://www.foxnews.com/world/syria-isis-supporters-escape-camp-kurds
This is going great!
Turkey told Trump on a phone call they were going to invade and Trump basically said ok, we'll get out of the way and let you attack our partners for years. The Kurds then basically found out on Twitter that the US was abandoning them.
Way to stand up to a strong man.
As for SA-yeah sure they are
. Copied and pasted the following from this article: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tho...oying-saudi-arabia-pentagon/story?id=66211563
The U.S. is sending two fighter squadrons, an air expeditionary wing, two Patriot Batteries, Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft, and a High Altitude Area Defense system (THAAD) to Saudi Arabia. The air expeditionary wing can be comprised of tankers, fighters, surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft a U.S. official tells ABC News.
I think @gr8indoorsman would have a much better idea. My guess is the tankers, surveillance, air wing, and fighters take the place of carrier, but missile defense is new deployment. That said a carrier and its escorts could have possible provided anti missile defense-do not know for certain.
The point is, apparently Trump wants to bring the troops home........unless someone is paying the bill.As for SA-yeah sure they are
Copied and pasted the following from this article: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tho...oying-saudi-arabia-pentagon/story?id=66211563
The U.S. is sending two fighter squadrons, an air expeditionary wing, two Patriot Batteries, Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft, and a High Altitude Area Defense system (THAAD) to Saudi Arabia. The air expeditionary wing can be comprised of tankers, fighters, surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft a U.S. official tells ABC News.
I think @gr8indoorsman would have a much better idea. My guess is the tankers, surveillance, air wing, and fighters take the place of carrier, but missile defense is new deployment. That said a carrier and its escorts could have possible provided anti missile defense-do not know for certain.
I don’t know anything for certain. I know one of the CVNs was delayed recently, but it’s unusual to not have a contingency carrier around. That said, we have been prioritizing the Pacific over the Gulf for some time now, so it’s possible PACOM won’t shake loose an asset for this. Not sure.As for SA-yeah sure they are
Copied and pasted the following from this article: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tho...oying-saudi-arabia-pentagon/story?id=66211563
The U.S. is sending two fighter squadrons, an air expeditionary wing, two Patriot Batteries, Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft, and a High Altitude Area Defense system (THAAD) to Saudi Arabia. The air expeditionary wing can be comprised of tankers, fighters, surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft a U.S. official tells ABC News.
I think @gr8indoorsman would have a much better idea. My guess is the tankers, surveillance, air wing, and fighters take the place of carrier, but missile defense is new deployment. That said a carrier and its escorts could have possible provided anti missile defense-do not know for certain.
So, also... I’m likely going to be out of the loop as I just celebrated my change of Command and retirement from the Navy. I officially retire 1 Jan but am on terminal leave now. Unless I take a defense contracting gig, I won’t have much in the way of inside info any longer. And frankly, unless I do contract, I’ll probably stop following Navy stuff for a while, play with my kids, ride my bike, and do whatever job I end up taking.
It appears per the Telegraph, as well as other sources, that the Kurds, Russia and Syria have arrived at a plan for the Turkish incursion.
I suspect that this will not be a great benefit to U.S .regional influence, particularly given this "'The betrayal process is officially completed,' an SDF official said of the US withdrawal. "
I suspect that this will not be a great benefit to U.S .regional influence, particularly given this "'The betrayal process is officially completed,' an SDF official said of the US withdrawal. "
Well, I hope your terminal leave goes better than my initial one. Was on terminal leave and 4 days into a 55 day vacation, and 9/11 happened.
Do not like this at all.
At first, Trump said no more wars, and the US will withdraw. I saw the point, it was a campaign promise he ran on, and had been consistent about it. I wish he would have made the point elsewhere.
Now, there is really not a withdraw in the sense of soldiers coming home. They just pulled back but are still in the area.
I talked to a few friends this weekend that are in the 3rd SF Group. Turkish artillery bracketed the US Soldiers in that area with artillery. Turks knew they were there. Shot about two hundred yards or so in the cardinal directions of them. The US did nothing but call and told them to stop-which the Turks evantually did, but not right away.
Being bracketed or engaged with artillery/mortars was always a threat that could be responded to by air strikes, artillery, or moving on the position. Now, the US does nothing, soldiers still in harms way, and as of now lost influence.
Makes no sense.
So Trump tweets that the Kurds may be releasing Isis members just to pull us back in.
Considering what he did, does he think he's going to turn people against the Kurds? Is this really a good idea?
Considering what he did, does he think he's going to turn people against the Kurds? Is this really a good idea?
Question: With due consideration for the US presence in Syria, I would also like to ask how you assess the US presence on Syrian territory?
Vladimir Putin: Regarding the presence of the US Armed Forces, it is common knowledge that their presence on Syrian territory is illegal. And we hope that the decision to withdraw US service personnel from Syria, made by President of the United States Donald Trump will be implemented completely.
Mission accomplished. Trump getting played on the world stage.
Bob, have you ever said something to the tune of, "Man, I wish they'd bring the boys home"? Be honest. There's probably never a right time to do it, but I agree that other nations need to step up.
I'm sure I have, but I am actually one of those who believes the US has to be the world's policeman at times.
I won't go into a long, drawn-out explanation........ And we certainly are capable of screwing things up all over the world at times........ but this situation shows what happens when a political promise takes precedent over circumstances on the ground. Obama did the same thing.....on a much larger scale....... and all his opponents skewered him for it, rightly so. Those same people, like you, are ignoring it in this instance.
We are the leader of the Free World, spent billions of dollars and lost thousands of lives to achieve that position, and we have the responsibility to live up to it. When the political, economic, and military power of the United States are used effectively and in the right situations, we can be a force for good. People look for us to be the leader, look at the people in Hong Kong.
When we withdraw, the bad guys fill the vaccum we left behind, as is happening in Syria right now.
Hell, let's close all the bases overseas and bring them all home. Watch what happens then. And if you think that won't affect us at home, you need to look at history.
Trump bragged about beating Isis every chance he had........and now those same fighters are going free. What freaking sense does that make?
Our boys aren't being brought home. They were just moved out of the way so an ally could be slaughtered.
Unfortunately that now should read "...so a former, but current Russian, ally..."
First you have to move 'em out of the region to bring them home. You know, with intel, drones, and other innovations, we probably don't need to be there. I'm not happy about leaving the Kurds to fight it out, but if now isn't the right time, when is?
Oh, and if POTUS Obama hadn't drawn that line in the sand, and walked away after it was crossed, maybe our troops would be out of there by now.
But let's blame it all on Trump.
Your posts lack any perspective.
As President you just don't have a call with a foreign leader and make this type of decision without involving your advisors, cabinet, etc.
He surely had the right to make that decision but you don't have a call on Sunday and say right after that we are pulling out tomorrow.
There was no operational reason for that type of retreat.
We weren't being over ran. Our men and women were relatively safe.
Now they aren't.
Now we aren't.
There is a right and wrong way to make a decision -- even the wrong decision
What makes this so terrible is not just that it was the wrong decision (which you obviously disagree with which is fine) but that it was absolutely the wrong way to make a decision and that is what makes this exponentially worse.
History will not be kind to this decision and especially how it was made.
BleedinginGold: you are absolutely right that it was not the right way to make a vitally important decision. It has made me wonder why it was done this way and so very quickly! Maybe my paranoia or maybe something nefarious
While that is certainly possible it wouldn't be my guess.
I think the decision was the result of what appears to have become the norm. Approach a meeting without preparation. Approach a meeting without any strategy. Approach a meeting without any tactic. Approach a meeting as an emotive event, talk but fail to listen to much apart from accolades received. Offer some personal carrot, e.g. a White House visit, assuming this will placate the wolf and rely solely upon personality to hold the wolf at bay until there is a follow up meeting. Now repeat the process.
He's a lazy, self-absorbed narcissist and he performs like it. He only hears his own bluster and loves all that he hears.
Maybe he will release the transcript of that call also. I'm interested in what was said. Or maybe Erdagon will release their transcript. That would clear things up.
Thing is, with Trump, it could be anything. Business interests with Erdogan, something with Khashoggi, something with Putin. Or more likely, just Trump trying to run the government the same way he ran his businesses. Trust his gut, shoot from the hip, research nothing, talk big, and litigate if it all goes south......along with blaming others.
You're really bringing it these days 70. Well done.
There is no denying that Trump really screwed this up! It is amazing how many times in the Middle East the US continues to make horrible decisions like this but this one takes the cake. Back when we enlisted the Kurds
Turkey is a NATO member yet acts like a proxy of Russia. Why does NATO allow that to continue? Its interesting that the BBC article rightfully points out the stupidity of the US in this situation yet fails to comment on the lack of involvement by England and the rest of Europe. In the first week of the fighting it is reported that 160,000 refugees have been created. Where are they going to go? To the US? Not likely. To Europe? Almost certainly. IMO Trump should have consulted with the EU and England a long time ago and created a path to turn over this phase of containment to them, then brought our troops home.
Right on cue !!
The "red line " in the sand concerned the murderous, degenerate al-Assad regime's chemical weapons attacks by the SYRIAN MILITARY, on THEIR OWN PEOPLE, years ago.
The current situation that involves Trump's decision to pull US troops DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT RED LINE !!!
The question remains: Are you going to continue embarrassing yourself , as you have for months, with your unmitigated ignorance of even the basic facts surrounding this, and other discussions involving the President ??
Your continuous dependence on Obama for either an excuse for, or a comparison to...... Trump....is pitiful.
and the beat goes on in the Middle East. Some things never change Back in the 70's after the oil embargo it became obvious that the US needed to become independent from the ME for oil. That was never achieved and as a result we have had an ongoing cycle of intervention and withdrawal from that part of the world. The policy related to the Kurds has been an ongoing chapter in the history of that part of the world. Below is a good read on that history.
https://theintercept.com/2019/10/07/kurds-syria-turkey-trump-betrayal/
We finally have the capability to satisfy our own needs for oil so why don't we do it and hand off the policing of that part of the world to the EU as it is more critical for them than for us.
https://theintercept.com/2019/10/07/kurds-syria-turkey-trump-betrayal/
We finally have the capability to satisfy our own needs for oil so why don't we do it and hand off the policing of that part of the world to the EU as it is more critical for them than for us.
The EU do the Middle East policing for us ?
On September TENTH, 2001...how would you have rated that European "policing " , as it pertained to our country's needs ??
You are so full of it. I simply said, if BHO had followed up with that red line, we wouldn't be discussing Trump's move today. But alas...ol' Barack didn't have the sack to pull the trigger, which now leads to the current issues at hand. Same with Slick and Osama in the "aspirin" factory when Slick could have pulled the trigger and didn't.
So in all acutuallity, it has everything to do with BHO and his line in the sand.
