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Abandoning the Kurds

Looks like someone knew back in 2016 that Trump would put his personal business profits over national security.

whats the body count hillary is responsible for with all her regime changes and her family's donations? Egypt libya syria honduras, honestly that is the biggest glass house in the world to be throwing rocks from... astonishing that you would even post it.
 
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whats the body count hillary is responsible for with all her regime changes and her family's donations? Egypt libya syria honduras, honestly that is the biggest glass house in the world to be throwing rocks from... astonishing that you would even post it.
I think he will have to check the articles dealing with her Presidency to check those numbers for you...
 
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I think he will have to check the articles dealing with her Presidency to check those numbers for you...
good to see we are blaming the cleanup crew and not the 8 years of stupidity that created it. you guys never even leveled a whisper at that administration. now the kurds are your besties. whatever.
 
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good to see we are blaming the cleanup crew and not the 8 years of stupidity that created it. you guys never even leveled a whisper at that administration. now the kurds are your besties. whatever.
This is called cleanup? This is a clear change of policy by Trump. You don't get to blame that on somebody else. Grow the hell up.
 
good to see we are blaming the cleanup crew and not the 8 years of stupidity that created it. you guys never even leveled a whisper at that administration. now the kurds are your besties. whatever.
The only thing this Administration is cleaning up is their take from Mar A Lago, The Washington Trump hotel and similar ventures... clean up crew my butt
 
id love to see the senate act. far too long have they hidden behind the presidents quick to complain and critique. "I haven’t read France’s or Britain’s ‘Constitution,’ but I’ve read ours and no where in it is Presidential authority to strike Syria.”
 
id love to see the senate act. far too long have they hidden behind the presidents quick to complain and critique. "I haven’t read France’s or Britain’s ‘Constitution,’ but I’ve read ours and no where in it is Presidential authority to strike Syria.”
I'm not sure what you're saying.........but who is questioning his right to do it? I'm so sick of this BS non argument. He takes a questionable or controversial action and the argument from the Trumpers is he has the authority............nothing about the action itself.
He has the authority to bomb Afghanistan into the stone age, doesn't mean it's a great idea.
 
The only thing this Administration is cleaning up is their take from Mar A Lago, The Washington Trump hotel and similar ventures... clean up crew my butt
Oh please. Obama's "red line in the sand" when it comes to Syria? What did he do there?

Obama doing almost nothing about ISIS after declaring them the "JV team"? Trump did clean up that mess, did he not?
 
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Oh please. Obama's "red line in the sand" when it comes to Syria? What did he do there?

Obama doing almost nothing about ISIS after declaring them the "JV team"? Trump did clean up that mess, did he not?
Let's see... as I pointed out elsewhere the U.S. lost 6 service people and 2 civilians battling ISIS in the Syrian region and the Kurds lost 11,000... now exactly who cleaned up what, and who walked away thumping his chest about what a great success the venture was.. please, the utter hypocrisy that this entire episode unearths is shocking
 
I'm not sure what you're saying.........but who is questioning his right to do it? I'm so sick of this BS non argument. He takes a questionable or controversial action and the argument from the Trumpers is he has the authority............nothing about the action itself.
He has the authority to bomb Afghanistan into the stone age, doesn't mean it's a great idea.
im just saying the senate over the past 20 years or so has done little to reign in unconstitutional wars, but they sure like to complain a lot. so if they want us to support the kurds then they can get off their asses and put their names on the line and vote to do it. this withdrawal has been coming since mattis left so this not a shock despite fake news media reports.
 
Let's see... as I pointed out elsewhere the U.S. lost 6 service people and 2 civilians battling ISIS in the Syrian region and the Kurds lost 11,000... now exactly who cleaned up what, and who walked away thumping his chest about what a great success the venture was.. please, the utter hypocrisy that this entire episode unearths is shocking
Why is it that ISIS was still a major force when Obama left office then? Obama handcuffed the armed forces and wouldn't really let the US engage to take out ISIS. Certainly, with serious Kurd help, the US wiped out ISIS in Syria after Trump came into office. Did the Kurds carry a heavy burden against ISIS? No question. But without USA support in the air and on the ground, the Kurds would not have been able to defeat ISIS on their own and essentially drive them away without US firepower, air support, weapons, and tactics after Trump allowed the US to engage.
 
Why is it that ISIS was still a major force when Obama left office then? Obama handcuffed the armed forces and wouldn't really let the US engage to take out ISIS. Certainly, with serious Kurd help, the US wiped out ISIS in Syria after Trump came into office. Did the Kurds carry a heavy burden against ISIS? No question. But without USA support in the air and on the ground, the Kurds would not have been able to defeat ISIS on their own and essentially drive them away without US firepower, air support, weapons, and tactics after Trump allowed the US to engage.
At least he had the courtesy to pay Stormy Daniels, albeit for silence rather than services, while the Kurds suffered 11,000 casualties and get paid by being hung out to dry, and to top it off today in his "they didn't help us in World War II or Normandy" description notes that they weren't really fighting for us but for their land only to allow Turkey to take that very land and drive them out. This President dishonors every one of us and his office.
 
I
At least he had the courtesy to pay Stormy Daniels, albeit for silence rather than services, while the Kurds suffered 11,000 casualties and get paid by being hung out to dry, and to top it off today in his "they didn't help us in World War II or Normandy" description notes that they weren't really fighting for us but for their land only to allow Turkey to take that very land and drive them out. This President dishonors every one of us and his office.
I also was taken further in that "World War II" dialogue when asked if our failure to support our Kurdish allies would make it difficult to form alliances in the future to hear our President say "No,...alliances are easy."
Yes, I am sure that they will be just as easy to solve as are the trade wars that he also told us were easy to win.
 
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im just saying the senate over the past 20 years or so has done little to reign in unconstitutional wars, but they sure like to complain a lot. so if they want us to support the kurds then they can get off their asses and put their names on the line and vote to do it. this withdrawal has been coming since mattis left so this not a shock despite fake news media reports.
lol. Yeah, no one was shocked by a 180 on policy on Monday after a phone call from Erdogan on Sunday night. Right.
They will be voting next week, count on it.
And if you've been paying attention presidents have been asking for congressional approval for military action less and less since Reagan......other than major conflicts like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Trump doesn't seem to be complaining about having the sole right to take these actions, something you were just defending.
Pick a lane.
 
I

I also was taken further in that "World War II" dialogue when asked if our failure to support our Kurdish allies would make it difficult to form alliances in the future to hear our President say "No,...alliances are easy."
Yes, I am sure that they will be just as easy to solve as are the trade wars that he also told us were easy to win.
Yes, his comment about Normandy and WW II was offbase for sure. No one really knows why this decision was made to abandon the Kurds right now except for a select few in the administration. As I said before, I think this is a mistake. Of all people, the Kurds deserved better than this. The US has shafted them in the past and once again leaves them hanging out to dry with this move.

Supposedly, the Administration has been trying to negotiate with Turkey for some months about how to handle creation of a safe zone on the border, about what to do with the ISIS fighters in Kurd jails with EU home countries (who don't these a-holes back), about formal recognition of a "Kurdistan", etc.

In this intractable situation where no side seemed willing to give an inch and the US trying to referee, it seems Trump got tired of it all and just punted the problem away, leaving Turkey, the Kurds, and the EU having to deal with the repercussions, whether positive or negative from their point-of-view.
 
im just saying the senate over the past 20 years or so has done little to reign in unconstitutional wars, but they sure like to complain a lot. so if they want us to support the kurds then they can get off their asses and put their names on the line and vote to do it. this withdrawal has been coming since mattis left so this not a shock despite fake news media reports.
The U.S. Senate needs to VOTE to save the Kurds ?? !! What planet are you from ?? !!!
The F'g PENTAGON all the way up to the top leadership only had 24-48 hrs. notice of Trump's reprehensible decision !! Lindsey Graham was quoted as counting NINETY-FIVE Senators who flatly condemned this move. Don't blame the US Senate or the F'g Tooth Fairy for one of the most indefensible and morally bankrupt decisions that a President has made, since Nixon.

For the 500th time, give us a break. The truth is not difficult to find.
 
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That all said, for one that ran a campaign on ending endless deployments and wars he is keeping his promise.
....
And this geo/ political/religous situation is untenable.
....
So I admit there will be carnage that ensues. I also do not think the US should get/be involved. People think they have the answer for the ME and eastern Asia for decades. Yeah, not so much.

-interesting that this promise takes shape in year 3, before the next election.

and as you previously agreed, the promises lack consistency as we continue massive support for israel and saudi arabia.

we haven't seemed to care too much about countless civilian atrocities in yemen, so maybe that is where we are being consistent.
 
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...Supposedly, the Administration has been trying to negotiate with Turkey for some months about how to handle creation of a safe zone ...
In this intractable situation where no side seemed willing to give an inch and the US trying to referee, it seems Trump got tired of it all and just punted the problem away, leaving Turkey, the Kurds, and the EU having to deal with the repercussions, whether positive or negative from their point-of-view.
But it was neither intractable nor at a standstill. The Kurds had actually agreed to the establishment of a safe zone, and had removed significant fortifications and armaments a month ago to allow for the initiation of the same. There was no reason for the U.S. to suddenly change course when there was, in fact, some headway being made. It makes absolutely no sense.
EDIT (accidentally removed this) - It seems moreso that the claim in the Newsweek article that Erdogan just rolled over the President in their phone conversation is very plausible.
 
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Why is it that ISIS was still a major force when Obama left office then? Obama handcuffed the armed forces and wouldn't really let the US engage to take out ISIS. Certainly, with serious Kurd help, the US wiped out ISIS in Syria after Trump came into office. Did the Kurds carry a heavy burden against ISIS? No question. But without USA support in the air and on the ground, the Kurds would not have been able to defeat ISIS on their own and essentially drive them away without US firepower, air support, weapons, and tactics after Trump allowed the US to engage.
When Obama left office the US efforts to create a credible fighting force in Syria/Iraq had been underway for some time. Shia militias and others were financed, armed and trained to combat ISIS, resulting in gradual reclamations of ISIS -held territories over a broad area, before the Trump Presidency. Re-writers of history insist on claiming that Trump singlehandedly wiped out The Islamic State from scratch.
Contrary to your goofball version, Obama insisted that non-US military forces would have to carry the combat missions to ISIS, rather than allowing a continuation of American casualties following the Bush-Chaney Iraq abortion. Good for him. It obviously prolonged the time it took to finally succeed, but at least Americans didn't have to turn in to the 6-o'clock news, every night, to see their sons, daughters, moms and dads' endless number of caskets unloaded at Andrews Air Force Base, for those years.
 
When Obama left office the US efforts to create a credible fighting force in Syria/Iraq had been underway for some time. Shia militias and others were financed, armed and trained to combat ISIS, resulting in gradual reclamations of ISIS -held territories over a broad area, before the Trump Presidency. Re-writers of history insist on claiming that Trump singlehandedly wiped out The Islamic State from scratch.
Contrary to your goofball version, Obama insisted that non-US military forces would have to carry the combat missions to ISIS, rather than allowing a continuation of American casualties following the Bush-Chaney Iraq abortion. Good for him. It obviously prolonged the time it took to finally succeed, but at least Americans didn't have to turn in to the 6-o'clock news, every night, to see their sons, daughters, moms and dads' endless number of caskets unloaded at Andrews Air Force Base, for those years.
Yes, of course, Obama did all of the hard work.
 
Thus my comment about "cleaning up."
Try not to be so literal.
You and I perhaps a couple more, may be the only ones alive at this point in time, that post here typically..and I rarely engage since it takes so much time. I'm reminded...

Helicopter pilot O.B. Harnage reaches out to help Vietnamese evacuees escape Saigon on April 29, 1975
190423-saigon-feature.jpg
 
Thx for clarification, re: Great Britain.
Would suspect NATO's lack of engagement , here, can be attributed to the fact that our Middle East allies, the Kurds, are not a state - much less one with NATO membership.
Let me know, folks, if I'm off-base, here.

-The PKK, right or wrong, is designated as a terror group by many NATO countries, the US, and others. They are closely tied to the Kurds. Generally, I disagree with the categorization due to how/why they formed(persecution).

I met plenty over the years. And PKK attacking Turkey military units because Kurds in Turkey were tortured by Turkey military units for speaking Kurdish or holding on to parts of their culture should not get a terror group listing. Nor should they(Turkey) be in NATO for those actions. Ironically, Russian and India and a few other totalitarian regimes do not share that designation.

-Turkey, right or wrong, is a NATO member. That complicates the matter.

-Not sure not being a state matters. More it is not in Europe/Western hemisphere and people do not want to deal with it. EX-NATO/US got involved with all the Balkan countries before they were states.
 
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Man , your all over the place. All the time. I appreciate your input, but really man, your posts make my head hurt. Am i alone with this?

It's exhausting.

LOL. Some of the people that have liked your post in the past have said I do not answer their questions or address their posts. So they get the responses they get and now do not like them.
 
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good to see we are blaming the cleanup crew and not the 8 years of stupidity that created it. you guys never even leveled a whisper at that administration. now the kurds are your besties. whatever.

That is an issue I have with the reaction to the Kurdish situation. The US and its allies used them for a long time. Nobody cared. Never heard a word about it. Now another withdraw occurs and it there is an outcry they need their own state and protection.

Just seems many had a chance to speak up over the last few decades or so and never said anything.
 
-The PKK, right or wrong, is designated as a terror group by many NATO countries, the US, and others. They are closely tied to the Kurds. Generally, I disagree with the categorization due to how/why they formed(persecution).

I met plenty over the years. And PKK attacking Turkey military units because Kurds in Turkey were tortured by Turkey military units for speaking Kurdish or holding on to parts of their culture should not get a terror group listing. Ironically, Russian and India and a few other totalitarian regimes do not share that designation.

-Turkey, right or wrong, is a NATO member. That complicates the matter.

-Not sure not being a state matters. More it is not in Europe/Western hemisphere and people do not want to deal with it. EX-NATO/US got involved with all the Balkan countries before they were states.
I do not follow the threads at this site to know for certain who does what and so forth, but it appears to me that many jump to what they believe you mean rather than what you state. Again, I could be wrong but don't recall you ever stating the current situation was great and that you were 100% behind Trump. What it appeared to be was that you explained a reason why it may have happened and offered the question of "when"..when do we pull out? Again, I may have missed a few things.

The situation is very concerning and hope it ends up not being as bleak as many believe it "will be"?
History will be a judge and for the sake of all parties I hope our concerns do not come to fruition.
 
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The U.S. Senate needs to VOTE to save the Kurds ?? !! What planet are you from ?? !!!
The F'g PENTAGON all the way up to the top leadership only had 24-48 hrs. notice of Trump's reprehensible decision !! Lindsey Graham was quoted as counting NINETY-FIVE Senators who flatly condemned this move. Don't blame the US Senate or the F'g Tooth Fairy for one of the most indefensible and morally bankrupt decisions that a President has made, since Nixon.

For the 500th time, give us a break. The truth is not difficult to find.

I think TSB post said
1) This was not a surprise
2) It had been developing for months if not years from Turkey and Trump positions
3) The Senate or congress did nothing about it during that time
4) They are now complaining, and have a chance to address issue again-so do it. Make it Veto proof. They can put their money where there mouth is through sanctions on Turkey, its leaders, instead of tweeting about it.

Now sure, that will not put US forces back in region to stop Turkey.
 
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lol. Yeah, no one was shocked by a 180 on policy on Monday after a phone call from Erdogan on Sunday night. Right.
They will be voting next week, count on it.
And if you've been paying attention presidents have been asking for congressional approval for military action less and less since Reagan......other than major conflicts like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Trump doesn't seem to be complaining about having the sole right to take these actions, something you were just defending.
Pick a lane.
what? the senate needs to pick a lane not me. lead, follow or get the f out of the way.
 
I well remember seeing the helicopter atop the embassy...
There were so many absolutely searing photos and film clips. Live journalism came of age during that conflict.
 
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I suspect that this TownHall opinion piece by Kurt Schlicter was the genesis of the Trump "They didn't help in Normandy" comment.
We can certainly remain confident that the President continues to remain open to utilising fairly obscure sources of thought that seem dedicated to being echo chambers of his positions to justify those very positions.
 
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Well it's taken less than 24 hours for the Kurds to have more deaths (10) than the US had during it's entire campaign (8 -- 6 service men, 2 civilians).

This is going splendidly.
 
Let's all try to put on our critical thinking hats for a change. This is not a single item that you have to pick a side on. It is OK to agree with Trump wanting to pull American troops out of Syria, or the ME at large...but it is also OK to agree with the fact that he did it like a complete idiot. Those are two completely separate thoughts you can have. Some of you are so damn scared to cross over to the other side with your positions that you just sound like blathering idiots.

Obama sucked with foreign policy, we get it. Hillary sucks, we get it. We are talking about Trump now, and his decision making process here is pathetic.

I said it in some other thread, but calling out other poster's hypocrisy does nothing to advance the conversation...only scores you worthless internet debate points.
 
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I suspect that this TownHall opinion piece by Kurt Schlicter was the genesis of the Trump "They didn't help in Normandy" comment.
We can certainly remain confident that the President continues to remain open to utilising fairly obscure sources of thought that seem dedicated to being echo chambers of his positions to justify those very positions.

I do agree with the statement he makes about having clearly identified objectives. Not just militarily, but long term strategically as well. That is my main issue with use of military overseas/geopolitics.

As for the PKK, that author is behind the times. Sure, some of them are not Saints. In the past they used tactics we would consider terror. I think it is important to realize the group and methods they utilized were born from the decades of severe persecution they faced. As for them being commies, that was originally the case 40 years ago or so. Now that movement is more aimed at 1) autonomy 2) or getting its own state. Their political leaning would be similar to liberal/progressives, not a totalitarian communist regime. JME/JMO
 
Let's all try to put on our critical thinking hats for a change. This is not a single item that you have to pick a side on. It is OK to agree with Trump wanting to pull American troops out of Syria, or the ME at large...but it is also OK to agree with the fact that he did it like a complete idiot. Those are two completely separate thoughts you can have. Some of you are so damn scared to cross over to the other side with your positions that you just sound like blathering idiots.

Obama sucked with foreign policy, we get it. Hillary sucks, we get it. We are talking about Trump now, and his decision making process here is pathetic.

I said it in some other thread, but calling out other poster's hypocrisy does nothing to advance the conversation...only scores you worthless internet debate points.

I don't have a problem with the idea of bringing troops home and winding down conflicts.

The issue is why this conflict? why now? and why in the hell would Trump do this unilaterally against all advice from his cabinet (both current and former), against congress (both right and left), and against his military advisors (both close to the WH/Pentagon and soldiers on the ground).

There are right and wrong decisions. This is clearly looking like the absolute wrong decision.

And there are right and wrong way to make decisions. And this is unquestionably the wrong way to make a decision.

He's either a complete disaster as commander-and-chief, or he made the decision for selfish (and possibly corrupt) reasons.

Neither are good outcomes or are defensible or deserve justification.
 
I don't have a problem with the idea of bringing troops home and winding down conflicts.

The issue is why this conflict? why now? and why in the hell would Trump do this unilaterally against all advice from his cabinet (both current and former), against congress (both right and left), and against his military advisors (both close to the WH/Pentagon and soldiers on the ground).

There are right and wrong decisions. This is clearly looking like the absolute wrong decision.

And there are right and wrong way to make decisions. And this is unquestionably the wrong way to make a decision.

He's either a complete disaster as commander-and-chief, or he made the decision for selfish (and possibly corrupt) reasons.

Neither are good outcomes or are defensible or deserve justification.
While I'm not favorable to this move, I do believe to suggest he'd endager lives for his profit is asinine. He ran on bringing the boys home among other things, and so far he's kept his word where he can.
 
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While I'm not favorable to this move, I do believe to suggest he'd endager lives for his profit is asinine. He ran on bringing the boys home among other things, and so far he's kept his word where he can.

Fair enough. I don't have any proof that his decision is not genuine or for his own financial purposes.

I have my doubts because of many of his previous actions, but that's not good enough for me to be able to apply it in this case.
 
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