Abandoning the Kurds

[indy35]

How many hotel rooms did Turkey book to get this? Seems like letting Turkey slaughter our most reliable partner fighting ISIS is a terrible idea.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/us/politics/trump-turkey-syria.html

 

[Bill4411]

Mattis resigned over this very issue in December. We only have 1000 troops there so I don’t see why it’s necessary for them to withdraw if it avoids a massacre?

 

[70boiler]

BBC Article

 

[PurdueFan1]

Brett McGurk, who was the Trump administration’s top official for anti-ISIS strategy for awhile, blisters him here. I’m guessing all Trump fans will just dismiss him as a loser because Trump knows more about the military and ISIS, etc (dumb is as dumb does, so whatever).

Anyway, here’s a link to the thread. McGurk speaks out against Kurd policy

 

[kescwi]

And Putin smiled

 

[BuilderBob6]

And Putin smiled

Gotta be a back channel of some sort.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Trump is actually getting some push back from Graham, Haley, Rubio.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Trump is actually getting some push back from Graham, Haley, Rubio.

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I"m guessing Lindsay will snap back to attention as soon as someone shoves his face in the dirt they have on him.

 

[tjreese]

How many hotel rooms did Turkey book to get this? Seems like letting Turkey slaughter our most reliable partner fighting ISIS is a terrible idea.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/us/politics/trump-turkey-syria.html

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don't have a good background surrounding this, but on the surface it seems like a legitimate concern and certainly one that should be scrutinized.

 

[BuilderBob6]

I hope he's also joking when he says "in my great and unmatched wisdom".

Who says that about themselves, except when they're joking?

This is unmatched narcissism.....and I can't believe 35% of Americans approve of someone who would say it.

 

[pastorjoeboggs]

I hope he's also joking when he says "in my great and unmatched wisdom".

Who says that about themselves, except when they're joking?

This is unmatched narcissism.....and I can't believe 35% of Americans approve of someone who would say it.

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Dear God. I had to double check the twitter handle. My first reaction was that it HAD to be a satire account.

 

[PurdueFan1]

Trump is actually getting some push back from Graham, Haley, Rubio.

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I"m guessing Lindsay will snap back to attention as soon as someone shoves his face in the dirt they have on him.

Just as i suspected. Back to being the sellout

 

[kescwi]

Dear God. I had to double check the twitter handle. My first reaction was that it HAD to be a satire account.

If any history buff has wondered how great nations slide into insanity, it seems we're getting a first hand look. 35% of the population is 100% behind this idiot, and it appears the rest of the Republicans will just turn a blind eye to him.

 

[indy35]

If any history buff has wondered how great nations slide into insanity, it seems we're getting a first hand look. 35% of the population is 100% behind this idiot, and it appears the rest of the Republicans will just turn a blind eye to him.

Right wing media has turned the Republican base into a monster they can't control.

 

[kescwi]

Right wing media has turned the Republican base into a monster they can't control.

Yeah, the joke wasn't Trump from the White House lawn asking China to investigate a political rival, the joke is the once proud Republican party who refuse to rein this buffoon in.

 

[Bill4411]

I hope he's also joking when he says "in my great and unmatched wisdom".

Who says that about themselves, except when they're joking?

This is unmatched narcissism.....and I can't believe 35% of Americans approve of someone who would say it.

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It kind of makes, “I am the great and powerful Wizard of Oz” pale in comparison doesn’t it.

 

[Purdue97]

Yeah, the joke wasn't Trump from the White House lawn asking China to investigate a political rival, the joke is the once proud Republican party who refuse to rein this buffoon in.

The joke is that people think foreign meddling is new. Been going on for decades. Check out the list of politicians that are involved with foreign government lobbying sometime. Or the groups/organizations that hold fundraisers for politicians. Supposedly, according to threads here, nobody thought these people were buying access, doing favors for politicians that supported what they were lobbying, or the politicians never asked for anything back etc etc. Sure, Trump is really transparent about it.

In short, it is how DC works.

If one did not understand this is what was going on I would kindly suggest to pull your head out of the sand and generally, good luck in life if one is that naive.

But hey, lets make it an issue now cause...Trump.

 

[BuilderBob6]

The joke is that people think foreign meddling is new. Been going on for decades. Check out the list of politicians that are involved with foreign government lobbying sometime. Or the groups/organizations that hold fundraisers for politicians. Supposedly, according to threads here, nobody thought these people were buying access, doing favors for politicians that supported what they were lobbying, or the politicians never asked for anything back etc etc. Sure, Trump is really transparent about it.

In short, it is how DC works.

If one did not understand this is what was going on I would kindly suggest to pull your head out of the sand and generally, good luck in life if one is that naive.

But hey, lets make it an issue now cause...Trump.

According to you, most everything done by this administration is fine because it's been going on for decades.
To try and equate foreign lobbying or meddling or fundraising with the president calling for an investigation by foreign powers into a possible election opponent is ridiculous.
Aren't you the one pushing the narrative that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election? Yes. So wtf are you talking about? Here's the president, being so arrogant as to ask for it on national TV.
Now you may try to turn it around on me.

You know how else DC works? Kids with a connected last names get cushy jobs making a lot of money. Been going on for decades.

 

[BuilderBob6]

The Apocalypse must be near.

 

[Purdue97]

How many hotel rooms did Turkey book to get this? Seems like letting Turkey slaughter our most reliable partner fighting ISIS is a terrible idea.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/us/politics/trump-turkey-syria.html

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Mixed on this.

The Kurds have been a good ally and this is not the first time the US has hosed them. The US has provided stability to the region. They are good people.

Also, the reality is this is part of the campaign Trump ran on. No more long stupid wars, no more getting involved in tribal nonsense across the world. It is apparent Trump no longer wants the US to be the world leader in policing the ME. It is hard to argue with that stance. Who the US helps in the present is often who the US fights a decade or so later. Rinse. Repeat.

Once again, outside of France and Britain, not much help from NATO. And when France/Britain did step up to the plate 5-6 years ago, Obama was not interested in getting involved.

One of the issues with elections every 2 and 4 years is that American policy changes and there is no long term well thought out strategy. It instead ebbs and flows with the whim of the American public because politicians want re-elected.

Not sure what the answer is there. Syria can deal with the Kurds as long as they are held in their spot. Turkey considers them a lifelong foe and will not tolerate them on the border. In the long run, while friendly now, I think Iran and Turkey relationship will disintegrate. They get along fine and trade now. But the entire Sunni/Shia deal will evantually heat up. Withdraw is not a bad option. Although I would like to see a withdraw, letting Turkey invade Syria, but putting Kurds/Federal region in Iraq off limits. Would like to see UN get involved here with them but I think we know that will go.

 

[PurdueFan1]

According to you, most everything done by this administration is fine because it's been going on for decades.
To try and equate foreign lobbying or meddling or fundraising with the president calling for an investigation by foreign powers into a possible election opponent is ridiculous.
Aren't you the one pushing the narrative that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election? Yes. So wtf are you talking about? Here's the president, being so arrogant as to ask for it on national TV.
Now you may try to turn it around on me.

You know how else DC works? Kids with a connected last names get cushy jobs making a lot of money. Been going on for decades.

I've said it before on here, but I will just never for the life of me understand the level of mind-fukking that's been done to the Trump base. He gets a pass for EVERYTHING. Literally everything. Broke the law? Oh that's fine. He's a shrewd businessman and just leveraged a loophole.

But ohhhhhhhhhh if this had been Obama? The man would have been exiled by the same people (and I would have been right there with them). The level of hypocrisy is just mind-blowing. Being so in awe of a multi-bankrupted, multi-divorced, petulant man-baby and believing with every ounce of your being that Trump's mind goes deeper than the spasms he has on Twitter. That they believe he's smarter than the scientists because he says he is. That they believe he's smarter than all of the generals in the military because he says he is. That they believe he's smarter than all of the doctors because he says he is. Imagine being so easily conned that you fall for everything that comes out of his mouth or his Twitter account. If this isn't some Jim Jones/Jonestown shit then I don't know what is.

 

[doubleyous]

How many hotel rooms did Turkey book to get this? Seems like letting Turkey slaughter our most reliable partner fighting ISIS is a terrible idea.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/us/politics/trump-turkey-syria.html

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Oh, and Thank YOU, Ivanka !!

 

[Purdue97]

According to you, most everything done by this administration is fine because it's been going on for decades.
To try and equate foreign lobbying or meddling or fundraising with the president calling for an investigation by foreign powers into a possible election opponent is ridiculous.
Aren't you the one pushing the narrative that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election? Yes. So wtf are you talking about? Here's the president, being so arrogant as to ask for it on national TV.
Now you may try to turn it around on me.

You know how else DC works? Kids with a connected last names get cushy jobs making a lot of money. Been going on for decades.

According to you, most everything done by this administration is fine because it's been going on for decades.

Oh, and where did I say that Bob? Please show me. This is going to be like last time where you claimed I said something, quoted part of my post to 'prove' it, and there was nothing there in regard to your claim. Must be a Dem tactic.

I do not like foreign lobbyist or intervention. At the same time, I am not going to crucify one politician for it and give everyone else a pass.

To try and equate foreign lobbying or meddling or fundraising with the president calling for an investigation by foreign powers into a possible election opponent is ridiculous.

Why? You seem to be implying that this has not been done before. Please clarify. And the actions that occurred with said political opponent occurred when he was a sitting VP. Big difference.

Aren't you the one pushing the narrative that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election? Yes. So wtf are you talking about? Here's the president, being so arrogant as to ask for it on national TV.

Like I said, Trump is way more transparent about it. Glad we agree. Am I pushing it, or is there a tape of a Ukranian diplomat stating they wanted to help Clinton? And no Bob, my narrative is if one wants to find out all this election interference in 2016 deal-fine. Investigate. But investigate the entire deal. Not just focus on Trump. People seem to want to ignore the other issues for some reason.

You know how else DC works? Kids with a connected last names get cushy jobs making a lot of money. Been going on for decades.

Sure it has. And if one of those cushy jobs was tied to a VP or really any politician stating a prosecutor investigating their child needs to be fired or aid witheld, investigate that too. To include the dem senators. Hell, Vocker all but cleared Trump about 5 times in his report, and Ukraine did not know money was frozen til a month after the phone call. Nice try at qpq there.

Anything else?

 

[doubleyous]

I've said it before on here, but I will just never for the life of me understand the level of mind-fukking that's been done to the Trump base. He gets a pass for EVERYTHING. Literally everything. Broke the law? Oh that's fine. He's a shrewd businessman and just leveraged a loophole.

But ohhhhhhhhhh if this had been Obama? The man would have been exiled by the same people (and I would have been right there with them). The level of hypocrisy is just mind-blowing. Being so in awe of a multi-bankrupted, multi-divorced, petulant man-baby and believing with every ounce of your being that Trump's mind goes deeper than the spasms he has on Twitter. That they believe he's smarter than the scientists because he says he is. That they believe he's smarter than all of the generals in the military because he says he is. That they believe he's smarter than all of the doctors because he says he is. Imagine being so easily conned that you fall for everything that comes out of his mouth or his Twitter account. If this isn't some Jim Jones/Jonestown shit then I don't know what is.

1) There's a clip from awhile back showing Trump, in about 15 consecutive 6-second segments, saying,
" Nobody knows more about (each of the 15) than I do " Subjects such as international trade, interest rates etc. Walking encyclopedia.
2) Trump like Jim Jones ?
No.
Close ??
Worthy of a 10-day gathering of 2 dozen top mental health professionals to evaluate JUST
HOW CLOSE.

 

[BuilderBob6]

According to you, most everything done by this administration is fine because it's been going on for decades.

Oh, and where did I say that Bob? Please show me. This is going to be like last time where you claimed I said something, quoted part of my post to 'prove' it, and there was nothing there in regard to your claim. Must be a Dem tactic.

I do not like foreign lobbyist or intervention. At the same time, I am not going to crucify one politician for it and give everyone else a pass.

To try and equate foreign lobbying or meddling or fundraising with the president calling for an investigation by foreign powers into a possible election opponent is ridiculous.

Why? You seem to be implying that this has not been done before. Please clarify. And the actions that occurred with said political opponent occurred when he was a sitting VP. Big difference.

Aren't you the one pushing the narrative that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election? Yes. So wtf are you talking about? Here's the president, being so arrogant as to ask for it on national TV.

Like I said, Trump is way more transparent about it. Glad we agree. Am I pushing it, or is there a tape of a Ukranian diplomat stating they wanted to help Clinton? And no Bob, my narrative is if one wants to find out all this election interference in 2016 deal-fine. Investigate. But investigate the entire deal. Not just focus on Trump. People seem to want to ignore the other issues for some reason.

You know how else DC works? Kids with a connected last names get cushy jobs making a lot of money. Been going on for decades.

Sure it has. And if one of those cushy jobs was tied to a VP or really any politician stating a prosecutor investigating their child needs to be fired or aid witheld, investigate that too. To include the dem senators. Hell, Vocker all but cleared Trump about 5 times in his report, and Ukraine did not know money was frozen til a month after the phone call. Nice try at qpq there.

Anything else?

Where did you say it? You said it over and over about the Russian interference in the election. No big deal, been going on for decades
You said it when Trump tried to pull troops out of Syria the first time. The NSA, Joint Chiefs, SOD, Congressional leadership all said it was a bad idea. No worries, this has been going on for decades, the president going against the advice of all his advisors is no big deal.
You said it when it came to the bailout of the farmers.
That's just from memory. The point is, you minimize Trump's actions by saying it's been going on for decades........when circumstances of all sorts are different or have changed.

I said, "To try and equate foreign lobbying or meddling or fundraising with the president calling for an investigation by foreign powers into a possible election opponent is ridiculous. Your answer was why? Because they're totally different freakin actions that's why. Just because they both deal with foreign powers doesn't make them the same thing. Then you fall back, once again, on your well worn excuse ......." implying that this has not been done before". Then you pivot to Biden, which wasn't even part of the conversation. Why don't you tell me the last time a POTUS publicly called for a foreign power to investigate a possible political opponent in the next election?

Haven't seen the Ukrainian diplomat saying they wanted to help Clinton. Yeah? You got something besides this guy saying it? You realize Volker made it clear there would be no summit unless Ukraine agreed to investigate. You saw the text messages from Taylor?
You totally ignore all the info about why Biden demanded Shokin be fired. And he wasn't investigating Hunter, he was investigating Burisma.....but who's counting. Does it matter that Prosecutor General Lusenko found no evidence Hunter did anything wrong? You look at a video and ignore all the circumstances around the action. Doesn't matter if the prosecutor was IGNORING the very corruption Trump says he wants to investigate. Doesn't matter that half the free world, the IMF,and the Obama admin felt he needed to go. Just focus on the video with no context, makes sense.
You guys want an investigation, bring something besides rumor and innuendo.

 

[kescwi]

The joke is that people think foreign meddling is new. Been going on for decades. Check out the list of politicians that are involved with foreign government lobbying sometime. Or the groups/organizations that hold fundraisers for politicians. Supposedly, according to threads here, nobody thought these people were buying access, doing favors for politicians that supported what they were lobbying, or the politicians never asked for anything back etc etc. Sure, Trump is really transparent about it.

In short, it is how DC works.

If one did not understand this is what was going on I would kindly suggest to pull your head out of the sand and generally, good luck in life if one is that naive.

But hey, lets make it an issue now cause...Trump.

Okay, I'm stopping now, you can't act the intellectual, then post this crap. Nothing you posted justifies a POTUS publicly asking a foreign government to investigate a political rival. Like most families, we keep that shit in house.

Go engage with others in this rhetorical game you've chosen to play as someone who doesn't support Trump.

 

[BoilerBiker]

Also, the reality is this is part of the campaign Trump ran on. No more long stupid wars, no more getting involved in tribal nonsense across the world. It is apparent Trump no longer wants the US to be the world leader in policing the ME.

since we are not involved in this ME nonsense all of a sudden

will trump also remove our massive assistance to israel and saudi arabia as well

 

[doubleyous]

It kind of makes, “I am the great and powerful Wizard of Oz” pale in comparison doesn’t it.

Unfortunately, it kindof makes just about ANYTHING pale in comparison.

 

[Purdue97]

since we are not involved in this ME nonsense all of a sudden

will trump also remove our massive assistance to israel and saudi arabia as well

Israel? No. Saudi Arabia? Perhaps. SA has not been aggressive with Iran after the attack on their refinery because they do not view the US as being there 100% militarily. It is a tough argument to make that any US soldier should die protecting the oil fields of a foreign country. Especially when the US can produce its own and those countries have their own military.

Also, never said we were not involved. I did say the platform/Trump's belief is the US should not be involved/as involved in their crap.

 

[Purdue97]

Okay, I'm stopping now, you can't act the intellectual, then post this crap. Nothing you posted justifies a POTUS publicly asking a foreign government to investigate a political rival. Like most families, we keep that shit in house.

Go engage with others in this rhetorical game you've chosen to play as someone who doesn't support Trump.

Boohoo, have nothing for the post so go run with your tail between your legs after acting like a tough guy lately.

According to some here, if I get into trouble defense contracting, all I have do is register to run for office, as a political opponent of whoever is in office, and I am free of any investigation. Not how the world works.

And now, all of a sudden, Ukranian oligarch that was also in parliament donated $10 million to Clinton foundation back to include times when she was senator, SoS, and that oligarch supported her campaign. But suddenly nobody seems to care about that election interference. , quid pro quo, etc.

This is all a big charade. It is filled with it is ok for me, my political party, but not yours. And a lot more of I care about this mainly because Schiff, Pelosi, and the media told me to.

 

[Purdue97]

Where did you say it? You said it over and over about the Russian interference in the election. No big deal, been going on for decades
You said it when Trump tried to pull troops out of Syria the first time. The NSA, Joint Chiefs, SOD, Congressional leadership all said it was a bad idea. No worries, this has been going on for decades, the president going against the advice of all his advisors is no big deal.
You said it when it came to the bailout of the farmers.
That's just from memory. The point is, you minimize Trump's actions by saying it's been going on for decades........when circumstances of all sorts are different or have changed.

I said, "To try and equate foreign lobbying or meddling or fundraising with the president calling for an investigation by foreign powers into a possible election opponent is ridiculous. Your answer was why? Because they're totally different freakin actions that's why. Just because they both deal with foreign powers doesn't make them the same thing. Then you fall back, once again, on your well worn excuse ......." implying that this has not been done before". Then you pivot to Biden, which wasn't even part of the conversation. Why don't you tell me the last time a POTUS publicly called for a foreign power to investigate a possible political opponent in the next election?

Haven't seen the Ukrainian diplomat saying they wanted to help Clinton. Yeah? You got something besides this guy saying it? You realize Volker made it clear there would be no summit unless Ukraine agreed to investigate. You saw the text messages from Taylor?
You totally ignore all the info about why Biden demanded Shokin be fired. And he wasn't investigating Hunter, he was investigating Burisma.....but who's counting. Does it matter that Prosecutor General Lusenko found no evidence Hunter did anything wrong? You look at a video and ignore all the circumstances around the action. Doesn't matter if the prosecutor was IGNORING the very corruption Trump says he wants to investigate. Doesn't matter that half the free world, the IMF,and the Obama admin felt he needed to go. Just focus on the video with no context, makes sense.
You guys want an investigation, bring something besides rumor and innuendo.

Where did you say it? You said it over and over about the Russian interference in the election. No big deal, been going on for decades

LOL. Dude seriously, when one has to claim that others said things to try to argue, you are done. I have said it has been going on for decades. I have asked why people suddenly care now? Where did I say it was no big deal? Please provide a link.

You said it when Trump tried to pull troops out of Syria the first time. The NSA, Joint Chiefs, SOD, Congressional leadership all said it was a bad idea. No worries, this has been going on for decades, the president going against the advice of all his advisors is no big deal.

Trump never tried to pull troops out of anywhere. He is the CIC. He either does or he does not. Nobody overrides him. Not how it works. I mean, I am beginning to understand why the convos on this board take place. Posters do not understand the most basic crap.

Please provide a link where it states I said it was no big deal. The politicians/civilians make the decisions. Not the NSA, JC, SOD or anyone else. It is the way it works. Again, why do people suddenly care that the politician makes the final choice that overrides his advice?

Like it or not, this was his campaign platform. Also, I seem to remember many here voting for Obama because he vowed to end long and stupid wars. Now Trump does it, which was his campaign platform, and all hell breaks loose.

You said it when it came to the bailout of the farmers.

Huh?

I said, "To try and equate foreign lobbying or meddling or fundraising with the president calling for an investigation by foreign powers into a possible election opponent is ridiculous. Your answer was why? Because they're totally different freakin actions that's why. Just because they both deal with foreign powers doesn't make them the same thing. Then you fall back, once again, on your well worn excuse ......." implying that this has not been done before". Then you pivot to Biden, which wasn't even part of the conversation. Why don't you tell me the last time a POTUS publicly called for a foreign power to investigate a possible political opponent in the next election?

I said Trump was obviously more open and upfront about it.

Haven't seen the Ukrainian diplomat saying they wanted to help Clinton. Yeah? You got something besides this guy saying it? You realize Volker made it clear there would be no summit unless Ukraine agreed to investigate. You saw the text messages from Taylor?
You totally ignore all the info about why Biden demanded Shokin be fired. And he wasn't investigating Hunter, he was investigating Burisma.....but who's counting. Does it matter that Prosecutor General Lusenko found no evidence Hunter did anything wrong? You look at a video and ignore all the circumstances around the action. Doesn't matter if the prosecutor was IGNORING the very corruption Trump says he wants to investigate. Doesn't matter that half the free world, the IMF,and the Obama admin felt he needed to go. Just focus on the video with no context, makes sense.
You guys want an investigation, bring something besides rumor and innuendo.

Well, hope one feels better after that rant.

If one has not seen or heard what Ukranian diplomats/parliament wanted to help Clinton not sure what to say.

Did you see texts from Volker and Sondland? They made it clear no QPQ message from Trump. Hell, Ukraine did not even know money had been suspended.

My issue is not with Hunter. He is taking the silver spoon daddy provided him. Many kids have done that. Yeah Obama dropped the ball here. Biden, with his son on the board of a company the prosecutor said under oath he was fired for investigating, and Clinton taking donations from oligarch/parliament member-he should have designated a special envoy. Now, there are issues.

Sure Ukraine is corrupt and were involved in pay for play. I am all for investigating any of these countries before they get money and making demands they address issues before they get aid or a summit. Pretty simple. How one has an issue with Trump wanting an investigation and not an issue with above is a bit hypocritical. Hey, lets write free checks or something.

And again, stricter foreign aid, less American overseas involvement-all part of his platform. Sure, there is positive and negative with that.

 

[kescwi]

Boohoo, have nothing for the post so go run with your tail between your legs after acting like a tough guy lately.

According to some here, if I get into trouble defense contracting, all I have do is register to run for office, as a political opponent of whoever is in office, and I am free of any investigation. Not how the world works.

And now, all of a sudden, Ukranian oligarch that was also in parliament donated $10 million to Clinton foundation back to include times when she was senator, SoS, and that oligarch supported her campaign. But suddenly nobody seems to care about that election interference. , quid pro quo, etc.

This is all a big charade. It is filled with it is ok for me, my political party, but not yours. And a lot more of I care about this mainly because Schiff, Pelosi, and the media told me to.

I'm not certain what I'm crying about, and sorry if I'm coming off as a tough guy. The reality of my life is just before sitting down to look at this screen tonight, I turned off my HVAC and opened all my windows. I'm giddy about that, I hope I don't need close them again for over a month. That doesn't seem like something a tough guy gets excited about, but maybe it is. Keep on fighting the good fight, as you see it, I just don't want to participate.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Where did you say it? You said it over and over about the Russian interference in the election. No big deal, been going on for decades

LOL. Dude seriously, when one has to claim that others said things to try to argue, you are done. I have said it has been going on for decades. I have asked why people suddenly care now? Where did I say it was no big deal? Please provide a link.

You said it when Trump tried to pull troops out of Syria the first time. The NSA, Joint Chiefs, SOD, Congressional leadership all said it was a bad idea. No worries, this has been going on for decades, the president going against the advice of all his advisors is no big deal.

Trump never tried to pull troops out of anywhere. He is the CIC. He either does or he does not. Nobody overrides him. Not how it works. I mean, I am beginning to understand why the convos on this board take place. Posters do not understand the most basic crap.

Please provide a link where it states I said it was no big deal. The politicians/civilians make the decisions. Not the NSA, JC, SOD or anyone else. It is the way it works. Again, why do people suddenly care that the politician makes the final choice that overrides his advice?

Like it or not, this was his campaign platform. Also, I seem to remember many here voting for Obama because he vowed to end long and stupid wars. Now Trump does it, which was his campaign platform, and all hell breaks loose.

You said it when it came to the bailout of the farmers.

Huh?

I said, "To try and equate foreign lobbying or meddling or fundraising with the president calling for an investigation by foreign powers into a possible election opponent is ridiculous. Your answer was why? Because they're totally different freakin actions that's why. Just because they both deal with foreign powers doesn't make them the same thing. Then you fall back, once again, on your well worn excuse ......." implying that this has not been done before". Then you pivot to Biden, which wasn't even part of the conversation. Why don't you tell me the last time a POTUS publicly called for a foreign power to investigate a possible political opponent in the next election?

I said Trump was obviously more open and upfront about it.

Haven't seen the Ukrainian diplomat saying they wanted to help Clinton. Yeah? You got something besides this guy saying it? You realize Volker made it clear there would be no summit unless Ukraine agreed to investigate. You saw the text messages from Taylor?
You totally ignore all the info about why Biden demanded Shokin be fired. And he wasn't investigating Hunter, he was investigating Burisma.....but who's counting. Does it matter that Prosecutor General Lusenko found no evidence Hunter did anything wrong? You look at a video and ignore all the circumstances around the action. Doesn't matter if the prosecutor was IGNORING the very corruption Trump says he wants to investigate. Doesn't matter that half the free world, the IMF,and the Obama admin felt he needed to go. Just focus on the video with no context, makes sense.
You guys want an investigation, bring something besides rumor and innuendo.

Well, hope one feels better after that rant.

If one has not seen or heard what Ukranian diplomats/parliament wanted to help Clinton not sure what to say.

Did you see texts from Volker and Sondland? They made it clear no QPQ message from Trump. Hell, Ukraine did not even know money had been suspended.

My issue is not with Hunter. He is taking the silver spoon daddy provided him. Many kids have done that. Yeah Obama dropped the ball here. Biden, with his son on the board of a company the prosecutor said under oath he was fired for investigating, and Clinton taking donations from oligarch/parliament member-he should have designated a special envoy. Now, there are issues.

Sure Ukraine is corrupt and were involved in pay for play. I am all for investigating any of these countries before they get money and making demands they address issues before they get aid or a summit. Pretty simple. How one has an issue with Trump wanting an investigation and not an issue with above is a bit hypocritical. Hey, lets write free checks or something.

And again, stricter foreign aid, less American overseas involvement-all part of his platform. Sure, there is positive and negative with that.

lol. You asked where did you say it, I gave you three examples. Not all about the argument, just proving that phrase is one you often use to defend a Trump action. I don't recall if you said "No big deal"........is that really the point? By saying things have been happening for decades you are saying they are meaningless.

Earlier this year, he did then he did not pull all the troops out of Syria, remember? Who is arguing he has the right to do it? Not me. The point is he got the same backlash the first time as he is now.........from his own party.

It was his platform........and it's always been a stupid promise to make, throughout history. Obama made the same mistake and was roundly criticized by.......guess who.....Trump.

You know the circumstances on the ground should dictate military policy and strategy, not political promises. Can freakin believe you sit there and defend this move because it was a campaign promise. FFS.

With regard to the the farmers being a pawn in Trump's trade war, you said the farmers being played by the two parties has been going on for decades. Look it up.

So you're defending Trump on his public statements because.........he was open and up front about breaking campaign finance laws? I guess that's a new take, don't think that absolves him in any way.

Why don't you provide a link to what Ukraine did to help Hillary instead of vague references? I've seen the politico story from 2017. I've seen the conspiracy theories about crowdstrike and the servers.

Why did Trump stop Sondland from testifying today? Did you see the reports that Sondland was in communication with Trump after the Taylor text.......and replied 4 hours later? Just to add some question to his loyalties......FOX news style......Soundland got the job after giving a million dollars to the Trump inauguration campaign.
The QPQ will be proven but it doesn't even matter. Trump broke the law and his oath on national TV.

 

[70boiler]

 

[Beeazlebub]

This makes me angry.

To think that a stateless people, who led the front-line fight against Daesh, are being thrown under the bus by the United States (for the second time, btw) is just unthinkable. This is antithetical to what many of us like to think of as US values - the Kurds are both democratic and secular in a region nearly devoid of such principles. While women just recently were allowed to drive in one of our strongest "allies" in the region, they fight on the front for Kurdish militias.

We should be supporting the evolution of a Kurdish State, not abandoning them to Russian-backed Syria and the Turks. It's hard to imagine what chaos will ensue from these troubling events, but I doubt the impacts will remain localized in NE Syria.

 

[lbodel]

The joke is that people think foreign meddling is new. Been going on for decades. Check out the list of politicians that are involved with foreign government lobbying sometime. Or the groups/organizations that hold fundraisers for politicians. Supposedly, according to threads here, nobody thought these people were buying access, doing favors for politicians that supported what they were lobbying, or the politicians never asked for anything back etc etc. Sure, Trump is really transparent about it.

In short, it is how DC works.

If one did not understand this is what was going on I would kindly suggest to pull your head out of the sand and generally, good luck in life if one is that naive.

But hey, lets make it an issue now cause...Trump.

It's amazing to me what you latch onto. A thread about Trump making a moronic military order that even Republicans think is dumb...yet this is what you post about?

The whole point is Republicans think something is the absolute wrong decision, yet many are scared to even say it out loud because of Trump. You're the same thing...you "seem" to not agree with him on certain things, but won't actually explicitly say it and will dance around it/try to change subject......and this post is a great example.

 

[BuilderBob6]

It's amazing to me what you latch onto. A thread about Trump making a moronic military order that even Republicans think is dumb...yet this is what you post about?

The whole point is Republicans think something is the absolute wrong decision, yet many are scared to even say it out loud because of Trump. You're the same thing...you "seem" to not agree with him on certain things, but won't actually explicitly say it and will dance around it/try to change subject......and this post is a great example.

The overriding theme seems to be that these things have happened before, we didn't complain about them at the time, there's nothing abnormal about this presidency, and we only bring it up because we don't like Trump.

 

[indy35]

 

[chiefboiler23]

The overriding theme seems to be that these things have happened before, we didn't complain about them at the time, there's nothing abnormal about this presidency, and we only bring it up because we don't like Trump.

When you don't have the courage to state your position on a subject, default back to calling out the hypocrisy of others. A tried and true method of debate.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Mixed on this.

The Kurds have been a good ally and this is not the first time the US has hosed them. The US has provided stability to the region. They are good people.

Also, the reality is this is part of the campaign Trump ran on. No more long stupid wars, no more getting involved in tribal nonsense across the world. It is apparent Trump no longer wants the US to be the world leader in policing the ME. It is hard to argue with that stance. Who the US helps in the present is often who the US fights a decade or so later. Rinse. Repeat.

Once again, outside of France and Britain, not much help from NATO. And when France/Britain did step up to the plate 5-6 years ago, Obama was not interested in getting involved.

One of the issues with elections every 2 and 4 years is that American policy changes and there is no long term well thought out strategy. It instead ebbs and flows with the whim of the American public because politicians want re-elected.

Not sure what the answer is there. Syria can deal with the Kurds as long as they are held in their spot. Turkey considers them a lifelong foe and will not tolerate them on the border. In the long run, while friendly now, I think Iran and Turkey relationship will disintegrate. They get along fine and trade now. But the entire Sunni/Shia deal will evantually heat up. Withdraw is not a bad option. Although I would like to see a withdraw, letting Turkey invade Syria, but putting Kurds/Federal region in Iraq off limits. Would like to see UN get involved here with them but I think we know that will go.

We all know you’re suggested course of action cannot and will not happen. Turkey will come straight down from the north and invade the Kurdish Autonomous Region. Turkey will free the ISIS prisoners and take them back to Turkey. Russia will help the Assad regime try to regain control of the Kurdish Autonomous Region. NATO is like a toothless dog. They will bark and whine but not do a damn thing.

On this issue, Trump has made a mistake. A potential humanitarian catastrophe. I don’t like it one bit, but do somewhat see why he wants to get our people out of that place and keep more Americans from being killed.