And Trump ran on bringing the military home....a campaign promise that the Democrats loved. Until now.
Abandoning the Kurds
- Thread starter indy35
- Start date
And Trump ran on bringing the military home....a campaign promise that the Democrats loved. Until now.
I think since the Korean War the USA has looked weak internationally on a political scale. The military can do its job but decisions are made on political expediency and reelection hopes. Foes know they can just wait the USA out. And since that seems to be constant, that is why I think ‘coming home’ is the best answer.
I think as with all of these decisions there is plenty of consultation-whether it is followed or not is another separate issue. I think you mentioned in another/post thread the situation in the ground should determine action. It should, but that is only part of the equation with politicians.
As for the soldier quote, depending on election, the redeployment could occur in 18 months. That is the maddening part with military service/deployments.
What do you not comprehend about the troops are not being brought home? They were just moved out of the way.
its engineered chaos.
some of these trump choices,
supporters would have previously claimed as being deep state globalists.
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What exactly did we get out of this new turkey deal?
Must have got something, we dropped the sanctions.
By the way, the Kurds got five days to get the hell out of Dodge.
The great negotiator.
Must have got something, we dropped the sanctions.
By the way, the Kurds got five days to get the hell out of Dodge.
The great negotiator.
Please don’t massacre the Christians until next week.
Tough to say. The PKK never left, and reports are the shelling never stopped. Turkey is scrambling now, as they said they are not shelling anything.
The main issue now is the constant shelling in those northern towns is mainly targeting hospitals. That is confirmed to be accurate. War atrocities and war crimes all over that action. However, what is not known is who is doing the actual shelling. That is an issue when there are 6-8 main groups involved in situation. The US has equipment that can determine location of artillery. If hospital shelling is determined to be from Turkey, it is high time for severe permanent sanctions, the USA getting involved again in a major way on the ground, and looking at developing a method to remove countries from NATO.
This entire NATO/Ally deal is not the great panacea it is made out to be.
The main issue is Turkey is carving out land for it's people at the expense of the Kurds.........thanks to Trump and his " bring our boys home unless somebody else is paying for them" foreign policy.
I get from your posts you aren't crazy about NATO. It has worked pretty damn well for 70 years........and I don't know what it was supposed to do about the internal changes that have happened in Turkey under Erdogan. NATO has certainly had to go through some changes since the fall of the iron curtain........... but this is more about the only predominantly Muslim member changing for the bad.
Turkey's location has been a key factor since it joined NATO.....and now it's part of the problem.
I think Trump, in general, wants less deployments. One can argue if that is good or bad. That said, from what I have read here and heard on the news I am expecting many people to enlist and many parents to support their kids enlistment, even encourage it, in combat arms. In short, the actual fighters in the military are worn down.
A basic thing NATO can do is if a country is not living up to the ideals or most of the ideals of the charter, is have a way to oust them that does not require 100% approval.
The ideals are basically as follows-
stable democratic systems, pursue the peaceful settlement of territorial and ethnic disputes, have good relations with their neighbors, show commitment to the rule of law and human rights, establish democratic and civilian control of their armed forces, and have a market economy.”
Turkey passes the market economy test and that is it.
Wait, I thought our boys were being brought home? At least that was the explanation given by the Trump cult on why Trump's indefensible actions were actually ok.
All U.S. troops withdrawing from Syria expected to go to western Iraq: Pentagon chief
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-to-western-iraq-pentagon-chief-idUSKBN1WZ01S
All U.S. troops withdrawing from Syria expected to go to western Iraq: Pentagon chief
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-to-western-iraq-pentagon-chief-idUSKBN1WZ01S
So if the troops are moving to Iraq, the cornerstone of Trump's reason for pulling them out is BS. For all his bloviating.......and that of his defenders, about keeping a campaign promise is yet another lie.
So why the abrupt change in policy? I guess he falls back on the "it's not our concern" argument. But it's time to ask questions about other influences.
Trump Towers Ankara? Trump Towers Moscow?
So why the abrupt change in policy? I guess he falls back on the "it's not our concern" argument. But it's time to ask questions about other influences.
Trump Towers Ankara? Trump Towers Moscow?
That is what he said. Time will tell if this is part of withdraw or not. Either way he is keeping them out of the war. Really irrelevant to call out ‘defenders’ when that is what he campaigned on and did.
Food for thought-
I am a bit perplexed as to why people suddenly care about Kurds? It is right up there with suddenly caring about foreign election interference-been an issue for decades. They had been screwed over plenty the last 30 years. Nobody bothered to care much-til now.
Also find it unusual that many now care more about Turkey/Syrian border than our own border with Mexico. And that when the US military overseas sets up elections in ME/Asia, even under Democrat Admins, they demand identification. Here-not so much.
But wth do I know.
last week troops were coming home to fulfill the 3 year old campaign promise
(despite increased numbers elsewhere)
streeeeetching seems to be a theme
Hillary Clinton trolled the President and tweeted a parody of the childish letter to Erdogan-
Why do people " suddenly " care about Kurds " ??
Probably for essentially the same reasons that American citizens " suddenly " cared about European Jews in the early 40's.
Time will tell? Trump said he was bringing the troops home to fulfill a campaign promise. He said about THESE troops, in Syria, at this moment. They're not coming home now, that was clearly what he said. What these troops do after their move to SA is irrelevant. It's amazing how Trump can say one thing, do another, repeat over and over that he did what he said, and you people make an excuse for him or just ignore that he lied to you.
lol.
"I am a bit perplexed as to why people suddenly care about Kurds? It is right up there with suddenly caring about foreign election interference-been an issue for decades. They had been screwed over plenty the last 30 years. Nobody bothered to care much-til now."
I put that in bold so you could remember doing it this time.
Once again, the same argument. I'm not even going to argue the point with you anymore, everyone sees it but you. Something happens that's big news.......and if anything remotely similar happened before, we are only talking about it now because Trump is in charge. You never say that but it's clearly your inference. You make the same excuse for him every time.
It's funny, I don't remember you talking about Ukrainian involvement in the 2016 elections back in 2016, 2017, 2018, or most of this year. I can't recall you making any references to or accusations about Hunter Biden either. Why do you suddenly care?
So again, why is it an issue now and not the last several times they were left out to dry?
This is really coming across as-some people being happy they have something new to complain about with Trump. Very convenient for some.
The last " several times" they have been imperiled did not include the distinct possibility of a brutal ethnic cleansing outcome….when a simple preventative measure by a major power like the US is all that was necessary for protection.
" New to complain about with Trump " ?? Legitimate complaints originated by Trump just seem to CASCADE down upon us all , daily.
Where the " happiness" comes in all of that is beyond me.....
Well your post is scattered. Will do my best to address it.
-Every time I came home from ME it was something along the route of Syria to Iraq to UAE to Kuwait or Iraq to Kuwait to SA. From Afghanistan it was usually Afghanistan to Pakistan to Turkey to somewhere in Europe. Point is, I never came straight back.
Lol, put what in bold so I remember something. Lol. Stating it has been an issue for decades and why do you care now is a question for you and your ilk to answer, not me. Do not try your extreme lame attempt to quote me from that as I say it is unimportant. Take the statement at face value. Answer it-maybe?
That is why I think we should come home. People do not care, they only care when it is politically expedient for a politician they like/dislike. Like I said before, under that pretense of this operation and strategy, go enlist, or encourage your kids/nieces/nephews to in combat arms. It is bs.
Please link where I made an accusation of HBiden. I said he gets jobs from daddy’s name, like many rich kids. He admitted it in interview a few days ago. Again, link something you claim I stated for once.
Nice try to say I suddenly care. I have been saying from the getgo I want all of this investigated. The difference with me is I want it investigated in its entirety and not a single party or only a single politician investigated.
Oh and maybe because back in 2016, 2017, and 2018 it was not known or did not occur yet
-that an oligarch said a sitting VPs son was hired to thwart prosecution,
-a prosecutor said under oath he was told he was fired for investigation,
- the VP demanded said prosecutor be fired and bragged about it
-there are other politicians children sitting on boards in Ukraine
-Ukraine politicians admitted to wanting HC victory
-After this is all done Ukraine gets their US taxpayer money, families of politicians are paid, Clinton foundation gets one of their largest donations
Just a bit of an issue. At the very least we see how all of these politicians that made anywhere from $135k-$225k annually are worth into eight figures.
This is money laundering and/or embezzlement outside of govt.
You need to read up on the Kurds and history of that part of world if you do not think a brutal ethnic cleansing was not a distinct possibility before. After the cease fire negotiation/agreement was released, Syria with them, IMO, less likely now
Yup the Turks did it to the Armenians killing about 1.5 million of them after WWI. So you are right.
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I've tried to explain earlier in this thread the reasons why this was different. If you can bring yourself to watch a clip from an MSNBC interview, Richard Engal does a good job of encapsulating why abandoning the Kurds was such a mistake.
Richard Engel is positively apoplectic over Trump’s decision to withdraw from Turkey. He isn’t able to hide his feelings, although he knows his role is to report. I don’t think I have ever seen a reporter on the ground be as demonstrative as he has been regarding the Kurds and Trump.
NOT an ethnic cleansing possibility with a ridiculously easy preventative measure...
From the United States, for God's sake.....
1) With Ukraine's bitter enemy Russia and Vladamir Putin being the recipient of candidate Trump's
genuflection, who would YOU pull for in the US Election if you were a Ukrainian politician ???
2) Trace the facts and history of the connection between The Clinton Foundation and Ukrainian officials. Then MAKE YOUR POINT rather than drawing some conspiracy theory connection, without facts
3) One would think that after SEVENTEEN references , here, to Biden's "demand" and credit-taking that the entire EU and the IMF had already effected regarding Viktor Shokin, you would have given up trying to make the 18th invalid conclusion
4) Expand on the "oligarch's" story involving Hunter Biden. Stick to the facts and eventual dispensation of the matter.
In addition to reading up on Kurds, research Ukraine as well.
I stated what I said, and it was based on quotes from actual involved players, some even under oath. Also based on known donations, payments, and transfers of money. Because you do not like the facts and statements, the facts and statements do not support what you want to believe, does not make it a conspiracy theory.
Like I said, investigate all if it. No idea why people are so hesitant about that happening.
It is almost as if they see the issue with the four to five main people pushing hardest for impeachment(Schiff/Pelosi/Biden/Romney) and their family have major financial ties there and do not want digging around.
I saw it. Been there. Even he admits the Kurds were not surprised by this. And sure the Kurds deserve that town and they were wronged yet again.
Like I had been saying, without any long term plan for presence and strategy, and as long as politicians do what is politically expedient or tied to money for them, I am all for bringing as many home as possible.
Believe me, was not always this way. My view changed over the years. Mainly cause of situations similar to this worldwide. Gain control of territory, help democratic minded people or people friendly to USA, then leave, then two years later go launch an offensive in area once controlled. Rinse. Repeat.
Happened in Afghanistan routinely. And Iraq. And African countries.
I can admit this jaded me on topic. Think it is a garbage strategy/routine at this point.
1) Why didn't you actually USE those quotes, if they were germane to the points/facts you were trying to make ??
2) "transfers of money, donations, etc." need context and supporting info. before they become part of what is accepted as fact. Remember ??
3) especially egregious is the Joe Biden/ Viktor Shokin story that you continue, endlessly, to claim as consequential, WITHOUT the accompanying back story.
4) If you're referring to the $8.6 mil. donation total that the Victor Pinchuk Foundation, in Ukraine , made to the Clinton Foundation between 2009 and 2013, what ACCUSATION of wrong-doing are you making that has been investigated and confirmed as wrong ??
Problem with facts, you say ??
Find a mirror.
Well, that last statement is projection.
Anyway, I expect people on here that are so opinionated to be a bit better informed.
I had linked them in the past. Not sure what to say, but if one is going to dismiss quotes, timelines, and quotes under oath as conspiracy theory, not part of back story as you put it, and non fact, there is little to no point in discussing anything.
Some people are going to believe what they want, regardless. Like I have said from the beginning, want to investigate? Fine. But look at entirety of situation.
So you're saying the move from Syria to SA may not be a redeployment, just a stopover on the way home. K. So how long do they have to stay for you to admit the move wasn't about a campaign promise? Or that Trump isn't really keeping that promise, just saying it over and over until you believe and repeat it?
Since you're always asking for links, I thought I would just point out another of your" It's been going on for decades/why do you care now" excuses. Might be easier for me to find later since you block your profile.
So you said from the get go that Biden and the dems should be investigated for the 2016 election? No? Oh........because "it was not known or did not occur yet.". Wouldn't that also be an answer to your "going on for decade/why do you care now" argument? People haven't been talking about the Kurds for several years because nothing had happened yet.
Did you expect people to be saying in 2017, "Boy I hope the Trump admin doesn't sell out these Kurds to Turkey in a couple years, they've been a real help with ISIS." I guess that would show that people cared about the Kurds in 2017.......although I'm not sure why that would be brought up out of the blue. Why weren't people in 2015 talking about how we need to keep an eye on those Russians, they might try to use social media to affect the next election. It was not known nor had it happened yet.
It's the same with all your veiled defenses of Trump's actions. Since no one talked about the action until it became news, the attacks on Trump are only about the hatred of him, they have nothing to do with the actions themselves. It's not a logical argument, its bullshit.
I don't know if you have mentioned Hunter by name, IDGAF about a link, but as double said, you've brought up the Biden video over and over, and Hunter was the center of your argument. You even brought up "the VP's son" in this post! You seem to conveniently play dumb when it suits your argument.
BTW, how did that Sondland testimony work for you?
If quotes/timelines were linked in the past, they were offered too many days ago to refer back to. Not going to spend all that much time on a search. Not claiming I couldn't have missed something.
The sum total, though, of the narratives you're attempting to pass along as substantive have , apparently ,
largely escaped the acceptance of the mainstream media. At such time as the smoke you generously post as fire actually has foundation, I can assure you I'll have no trouble believing it. For a while, now, Trump & Co. have been under siege. Can't be any fun defending it , I'll grant you that.
We don't belong in Syria and the troops are coming home.
Weeeeeeelllllllll some troops are going to Saudi Arabia. We have to defend SA and our interests.
Ehhhhhhh The troops from Syria will be going to Iraq.
Uuuuuuum but they can only stay a month.
Uuoooohhh. We willl be leaving some troops in Syria protect the oil fields.
It's so reassuring to know we have a plan.
Weeeeeeelllllllll some troops are going to Saudi Arabia. We have to defend SA and our interests.
Ehhhhhhh The troops from Syria will be going to Iraq.
Uuuuuuum but they can only stay a month.
Uuoooohhh. We willl be leaving some troops in Syria protect the oil fields.
It's so reassuring to know we have a plan.
Isn't this soooo special...Russia gets it but it seems maybe the White House doesn't...
"Kremlin Says U.S. Betrayed Kurds in Syria, Tells Kurds to Withdraw or Be Mauled" - The Moscow Times
"Kremlin Says U.S. Betrayed Kurds in Syria, Tells Kurds to Withdraw or Be Mauled" - The Moscow Times
The utter and vile irony of implying that the Kurds should bail out the US abandonment and protect the Syrian oil so he doesn't have to order Americans to do so seems to be totally lost on the President.
Amazing...
Your posts are really scattered lol
-No idea how long they would have to stay. Especially with the carrier group not being there. Anyway, they either come home or not, the troops overseas lessen in number or they do not. The rest of your first paragraph makes no sense.
-Bob, that is a question for you to answer. Not me. Why do you suddenly care about this stuff when it has gone on for decades? Stop deflecting.
-No Bob, what I said from the get go, is investigate it all. Not just certain parts. The lefts mantra is nobody is above the law, ok, but then they do not seem to want any of their people investigated and have no issues with illegal immigrants. Investigate Trump for witholding aid-fine. Also investigate why he withheld it.
If you do not think anything has happened with the Kurds for several years I am not sure what to even think or say to that. One, are you even serious? Two, why do you suddenly care? Just wow. A lot of people have no idea what is going in the world, then their political party or news station tells them what to care about, and it becomes a main theme in their politics. And it was known for awhile this was an issue with the Kurds. One of the reasons Mattis quit-he bumped heads with Trump over this for a long time.
Sure I brought up the JBiden video. He was quoted as saying he got the prosecutor fired. The prosecutor under oath has stated he was told he was fired for investigating Burisma. That was my argument. Please provide a link where I said HBiden was the center of my argument. All I said was he gets a job because of his old man-not the first or last person that will apply to.
As for Russia and involvement in election, foreign interference is nothing new. SEcond, the Obama admin had been warned in 2014 of this. They should have stared caring before their candidate lost.
Sondland did fine. He is the one person that has had the most first hand information so far. And he said he was directed by Trump to write/inform Taylor and others no QPQ. I am not sure how that gets interpreted as bad.
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