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A penalty looking for a crime,

Definitely attack the process. Why not? If one wants the facts of testimony/"evidence" debated release it to the public, have hearing in public, allow it to be discussed, allow equal availability to Republicans. Vote on having the actual inquiry procedure, etc.

The best fact released was the actual paraphrased transcript the white house released.

Dems walked right into that issue. Guarding all the facts/"evidence" information, lying about what they allegedly knew, who they talked to and when, leaking a few texts here and there from over 10 hours of testimony, etc etc. They talk of how damning a testimony was, only to hear staffers later say the Republican rep only had two minutes of questioning and destroyed the testimony, etc

Calling this a clown show is giving it to much credit.
1) " THE" Republican House member ?? As if in the committee hearing - ALL Republicans didn't have a chance to ask questions - and with the SAME TIME ALLOTMENT that was given to Democratic members ??!!
Just exactly WHO were the " staffers" that made such a ridiculous claim ??
And who could POSSIBLY be so demonstrably stupid as to believe witness testimony was " destroyed " ???
Any part of testimony that had classified status would be protected from exposure, but how the (F) is any testimony " destroyed" ???!!!
2) You can be on the BoilerMadness Crazy Team and believe the House proceedings have been" KGB type"
3) Clown Show ? You got THAT right......
 
Ex - CUSE me ??!!

"Reality" is simply just another word for TRUTH.
So you think that another " way of thinking about something " could be MAKE BELIEVE ???
Twin,........buddy, you've got a PATENT on that...……..



Is that in some sort of code?

Doesn't make sense except you think everything you ''think'' which is a stretch anyway or say is always the truth. How pathetic is your life that you live 24/7 on a message board to verbally abuse anyone that doesn't agree with your obviously slanted take on everything? 3 2 1 for my proof!
 
If I am included in that group (as I assume that I am), it certainly is far from offensive to me that I am included with a group that seems to embody a pretty across the board and divergent set of political and societal views, but with a reasonable idea of who the President is and the horrendous results for the country due to his actions and positions. Coalition politics is a wonderful thing, but clearly something that neither the President nor his ardent supporters seem to possess even an iota of understanding.
So, I am happy to be on that train.
You weren't. But you were close. Sorry, but your stump wasn't tall enough.:rolleyes:
 
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I personally, despise Dershowitz as he clearly showed who he is in the OJ Simpson trial. He is nothing but a tool.

Lawrence Tribe is a more respected constitutional law professor. See his view here: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/laurence-tribe-donald-trump-impeachment_n_5db145b4e4b0131fa9999acc
Do you not believe if the Demo's were in possession of any smoking gun they would have it on the NY Times and CNN's front desk immediately? They have nothing but fake facts.
 
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Is that in some sort of code?

Doesn't make sense except you think everything you ''think'' which is a stretch anyway or say is always the truth. How pathetic is your life that you live 24/7 on a message board to verbally abuse anyone that doesn't agree with your obviously slanted take on everything? 3 2 1 for my proof!
Do you wear some kind of helmet to prevent furthur head injury ?
 
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Do you not believe if the Demo's were in possession of any smoking gun they would have it on the NY Times and CNN's front desk immediately? They have nothing but fake facts.
In 1 1/2 weeks....seventy hours of SWORN depositions and answering questions of BOTH R's and D's ....by members of our diplomatic corps with pristine reputations. ....and the result of all this is........wait for it......

" FAKE FACTS " , ever'body !!!!!
Twin,........ya' into those oxymorons now, huh ??
 

A bunch of no name sources, that were not in the meeting/deposition, more second hand information, even your own article states Taylor was second hand info..

With as much leaking that went on with this, if they had something, Have to believe it would be leaked. Word was today there would be public testimony but only about part of what full testimony was about. Sort of like releasing 3-4 texts of an 11 hour testimony. This is setting up to be a lot like the Russia investigation and Mueller testimony. Lot of parallels.

I still do not see what the issue is with wanting what happened in Ukraine over the years investigated before they get any more aid. Same with the entire Russia ordeal and hacking of server. Run a full investigation. If that involves current politicians or former politicians running for office oh well. A lot of aid seemed to come after children of politicians were put on boards in Ukraine, Ukraine diplomats/oligarchs donated to foundations, and American contractors with Soviet/Ukranian lineage became big fundraisers for certain politicians.

I am glad this is coming out in open. People are now seeing how politicians that largely have made less than $200k their entire career are worth tens of millions. People had said they wanted this cleaned up, but now that it points fingers back at politicians they like or party they support it seems to be a non -issue.
 
I'm on the record as a Kasich 2020 vs Buttigieg or Klobachar 2020.

I voted for Kasich in the 2016 primary. I'm not bitter that Kasich lost or that Trump won.

And my opposition to Trump is entirely based on his character and performance both prior and during his tenure in office.

I see him as grossly unqualified who has always put his own personal interests above those of our country's.

Why I will vote for a Democrat is because the current base of the GOP has abandoned fact-based thought and has embraced conspiracies that can't stand up to scrutiny. Distraction and disruption is their game.

If the GOP can get back to even remotely debating a topic on their merits I'm ready to listen.

Well, good for you for not being bitter. Many people are like that. It should be obvious.

Ige the character part on Trump. What do you not like about performance? I can buy the personal interests being high on his list of priorities, but not sure how that makes him different from many others.

As for Republicans embracing conspiracies-you do realize the dossier that was bought and paid for Dems, written by an anti-Trump intel guy, and the methods used to gather and disseminate that info which led to FISA warrants and investigations,which were supposed to lead to treason charges is believed by Dems, not Republicans. Might want to reconsider your pov on that.
 
You watch way too much Fox News....

Ignore that and hell even ignore MSNBC and CNN.

If you watch or read any intellectual, reputable, journalistic source you will quickly find many fallacies in your posts on this thread.

Heck you can find them even time to time on FoxNews.com.... but it's so easy to see where your talking points come from.

They aren't original, and more concerning just aren't based in facts.

Let me know when they walk back all of the Obama Birth Certificate scandals, or the HRC email/Bengjazi scandals...

You talk about indoctrination but fail to see your own.

Irony is lost.

Well, the Clinton email deal was just investigated again, and there were almost 600 hundred more violations found. How there are that many violations but no systemic abuse is beyond belief. And the investigation started in 2016-so do not blame Trump for it. if she would have secured her email thsi would have been a non issue.
https://www.apnews.com/14b14afc5d8647858489a2cf5385c28d

Not sure why one would bring up Benghazi as a non scandal. DC knows with 30 minutes if a forward operating base in a foreign country is getting probed or taking on heavier than normal mortar fire. But nobody there had any idea that an embassy was being overrun and a 4 star general that said the US was wheels up and ready to go was canned shortly after.

So what was not fact?
 
Well, the Clinton email deal was just investigated again, and there were almost 600 hundred more violations found. How there are that many violations but no systemic abuse is beyond belief. And the investigation started in 2016-so do not blame Trump for it. if she would have secured her email thsi would have been a non issue.
https://www.apnews.com/14b14afc5d8647858489a2cf5385c28d

Not sure why one would bring up Benghazi as a non scandal. DC knows with 30 minutes if a forward operating base in a foreign country is getting probed or taking on heavier than normal mortar fire. But nobody there had any idea that an embassy was being overrun and a 4 star general that said the US was wheels up and ready to go was canned shortly after.

So what was not fact?
Mr Man, the link you posted mentioned nothing about "600 more violations" but it did have this
“no persuasive evidence of systemic, deliberate mishandling of classified information.”
 
Mr Man, the link you posted mentioned nothing about "600 more violations" but it did have this

From the article-

The investigation covered 33,000 emails that Clinton turned over for review after her use of the private email account became public. The department said it found a total of 588 violations involving information then or now deemed to be classified but could not assign fault in 497 cases.

I have no idea how that much abuse is not systemic. I mean that is just completely not giving a crap. Mishandling a few items of classified material has been at the least clearance suspension/revoked which is indirectly a career ender.
 
From the article-

The investigation covered 33,000 emails that Clinton turned over for review after her use of the private email account became public. The department said it found a total of 588 violations involving information then or now deemed to be classified but could not assign fault in 497 cases.

I have no idea how that much abuse is not systemic. I mean that is just completely not giving a crap. Mishandling a few items of classified material has been at the least clearance suspension/revoked which is indirectly a career ender.
While I admit that the future is undetermined, it's not like anybody is lining up to elect Hillary again to any kind of public office. Her "mishandling" of emails was a large part of how Donald Trump convinced the American people that he was more trustworthy. It essentially WAS a career ender.

(EDIT: Also, despite what some news agencies are trying to say, No, nobody wants Hillary to run again in 2020)
 
In 1 1/2 weeks....seventy hours of SWORN depositions and answering questions of BOTH R's and D's ....by members of our diplomatic corps with pristine reputations. ....and the result of all this is........wait for it......

" FAKE FACTS " , ever'body !!!!!
Twin,........ya' into those oxymorons now, huh ??
Answer my question...When Trump is re-elected in 2020, will the sea level rise because of global warming or your tears?
 
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Do you wear some kind of helmet to prevent furthur head injury ?
And there it is , someone disagrees with your thinking ? Verbally abuse them. There is a part of me that would love to meet your wormy little self in person. I am 100% sure you wouldn't talk the shit you do to the other posters that disagree with your f****d up reality. By the way dumb ass there is only one U in FURTHER . I know you have that double U crap stuck in your head because you think you are really something. The real world outside of the well dubbed '' magnificent six'' by @BoilerMadness and your few groupies you are nothing .
 
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1) " THE" Republican House member ?? As if in the committee hearing - ALL Republicans didn't have a chance to ask questions - and with the SAME TIME ALLOTMENT that was given to Democratic members ??!!
Just exactly WHO were the " staffers" that made such a ridiculous claim ??
And who could POSSIBLY be so demonstrably stupid as to believe witness testimony was " destroyed " ???
Any part of testimony that had classified status would be protected from exposure, but how the (F) is any testimony " destroyed" ???!!!
2) You can be on the BoilerMadness Crazy Team and believe the House proceedings have been" KGB type"
3) Clown Show ? You got THAT right......

Destroyed as in witness was asked questions, and the info he had was determined to be second hand. Not as they put it in a shredder. Although all of this he said/she said hearsay second hand nonsense can go right in a shredder. It is useless.

I would kindly suggest reading up on the issues Republicans have publicly stated they have with process-to include lawyers and staff allowed in, access to records of hearing, etc. plenty out there.

For classified info supposedly being protected, Dems sure like leaking snippets of 11 hour testimony.
 
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And there it is , someone disagrees with your thinking ? Verbally abuse them. There is a part of me that would love to meet your wormy little self in person. I am 100% sure you wouldn't talk the shit you do to the other posters that disagree with your f****d up reality. By the way dumb ass there is only one U in FURTHER . I know you have that double U crap stuck in your head because you think you are really something. The real world outside of the well dubbed '' magnificent six'' by @BoilerMadness and your few groupies you are nothing .

This is the open minded crew remember. Good luck meeting up with some of them.

I had been sent via pm to meet by posters or alleged spouse. Let them know where I am at during week and football weekends, conveniently they say they are busy then put one on ignore.

If they disagree they attack the person. If they get it handed to them the DMs start wanting to meet.

Whatever, this place was once pretty solid. Had beers at Harry’s with posters I was on many different political levels with. Not that way anymore.
 
This is the open minded crew remember. Good luck meeting up with some of them.

I had been sent via pm to meet by posters or alleged spouse. Let them know where I am at during week and football weekends, conveniently they say they are busy then put one on ignore.

If they disagree they attack the person. If they get it handed to them the DMs start wanting to meet.

Whatever, this place was once pretty solid. Had beers at Harry’s with posters I was on many different political levels with. Not that way anymore.

Yep, I remember what the place used to be, a bunch of right wingers circle jerking over their delusions. Seems like a lot of them have run away now that there are people on the board fact checking them. We’ve seen a complete collapse of the Republican Party. No morals, no character, no intellectual honesty, complete lawlessness, shameful hypocrisy, inability to recognize basic facts, constant lies. If you want to know what happened, look at what the right wing has become. It’s the greatest danger our country faces.
 
And there it is , someone disagrees with your thinking ? Verbally abuse them. There is a part of me that would love to meet your wormy little self in person. I am 100% sure you wouldn't talk the shit you do to the other posters that disagree with your f****d up reality. By the way dumb ass there is only one U in FURTHER . I know you have that double U crap stuck in your head because you think you are really something. The real world outside of the well dubbed '' magnificent six'' by @BoilerMadness and your few groupies you are nothing .
This guy insults, labels people and the like if one disagrees with him. He does these same things to posters on this board that he complains about Trump doing to others on an hourly basis.
 
This is the open minded crew remember. Good luck meeting up with some of them.

I had been sent via pm to meet by posters or alleged spouse. Let them know where I am at during week and football weekends, conveniently they say they are busy then put one on ignore.

If they disagree they attack the person. If they get it handed to them the DMs start wanting to meet.

Whatever, this place was once pretty solid. Had beers at Harry’s with posters I was on many different political levels with. Not that way anymore.
Sadly, the generalization of the collapse of community is true.
It's clearly a two way street. I can and am only speaking here from my perspective.
Given my business, I tend to being quite careful in expressing my political views, not that they are particularly unknown, but I certainly avoid things and topics that make them obvious or particularly part of the discussion. I am quite at ease with many of my quite conservative colleagues and friends and they they know that I tend to not take political comments personally or really become terribly offended by most things. My liberal and progressive friends and colleagues are clearly aware of my views. It's been my experience, and I mean this as no affront, that the "lefties" tend, for the most part, to stay clear of discussions and language that would be viewed as "political", while the "righties" have far less compunction in doing so. I don't think, and very seldom on any occasion have in the past have thought, that their doing so was with the intention of starting arguments or being offensive, but rather I have simply viewed their comments from the perspective that they really think that everyone must agree with what they're saying. Many of them are very good friends, and have been for decades, and I have no doubt of their lack of "bad" intentions.
Just an observation, and one that I am sure applies left to right as well.
Nonetheless, it seems that the phenomenon of "deunification" is sadly nearing a level that is becoming so widespread, extensive and inclusive that it may become irremedial. I see friends of 60 years duration rapidly becoming mere acquaintances, and candidly, I don't really see a solution.
I'm distraught for the future, in part because I also believe that modernity with its lack of in person depth of contacts tends to create far less actual, and less deep friendships than older generations that can serve as a crutch through such times.
I just cannot conceive of a resolution in these times, and lament it.
Sorry about the length of my Friday evening sermonizing.
 
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It's been my experience, and I mean this as no affront, that the "lefties" tend, for the most part, to stay clear of discussions and language that would be viewed as "political", while the "righties" have far less compunction in doing so. I don't think, and very seldom on any occasion have in the past have thought, that their doing so was with the intention of starting arguments or being offensive, but rather I have simply viewed their comments from the perspective that they really think that everyone must agree with what they're saying.
Do you actually read this board and think any of that remotely applies?
 
And there it is , someone disagrees with your thinking ? Verbally abuse them. There is a part of me that would love to meet your wormy little self in person. I am 100% sure you wouldn't talk the shit you do to the other posters that disagree with your f****d up reality. By the way dumb ass there is only one U in FURTHER . I know you have that double U crap stuck in your head because you think you are really something. The real world outside of the well dubbed '' magnificent six'' by @BoilerMadness and your few groupies you are nothing .
1) Verbal abuse ?? No way ! Just a simple question involving your wellbeing.
2)There is NO part of me that would care to come within 50 miles of you
3) There's a " Magnificent Six ", now ??!! Is Yul Brynner in it ??
4) If we actually have "groupies"...…….send 'em over !
5) Lighten up a little, there, Squirrelguy……….the tough guy impersonation is a little feeble....
 
This guy insults, labels people and the like if one disagrees with him. He does these same things to posters on this board that he complains about Trump doing to others on an hourly basis.
You might consider the possibility that on an anonymous message board...opinions are what's being insulted, rather than those offering them up. With Trump, the trash-talking, flame-throwing, grenade-launching insults hardly wind up being aimed at that many anonymous people. Most are directed at public figures who have somewhere between 15 and 20 times the integrity than he does.
 
This is the open minded crew remember. Good luck meeting up with some of them.

I had been sent via pm to meet by posters or alleged spouse. Let them know where I am at during week and football weekends, conveniently they say they are busy then put one on ignore.

If they disagree they attack the person. If they get it handed to them the DMs start wanting to meet.

Whatever, this place was once pretty solid. Had beers at Harry’s with posters I was on many different political levels with. Not that way anymore.
FWIW......the majority of the rancor on this board can be traced to the consequences of the 2016 election.
What % of the ill will can be legitimately traced to the reaction to one, and one only political figure ??
Message boards,....social media...everywhere you go is the fallout. Everywhere.
 
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FWIW......the majority of the rancor on this board can be traced to the consequences of the 2016 election.
What % of the ill will can be legitimately traced to the reaction to one, and one only political figure ??
Message boards,....social media...everywhere you go is the fallout. Everywhere.
Sorry, I disagree with this one. The election was a huge exacerbating factor but the issues clearly predated the election, and without question have expanded geometrically since.
My issues are very little with the election itself. I could have lived with a Trump Presidency had there been a simple modicum of effort to move toward a unifying of the sides but his avoidance of such, together with his relentless claims of victimization, his self serving as opposed to country serving, his uncontrollable egotism, his total devaluation of a modicum of truthfulness, and those related personal issues that have been magnified are my issues. The willingness to refuse to consider that others actually have some knowledge is appalling, for example, today yet another judge with no real experience and who was rated "unqualified" by the ABA, coupled with the reprehensible methodology of earlier actions, such as the Garland Supreme Court appointment, all are far more consequential to me than simply a 2016 Republican Presidential win.
 
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It seems to me that people really just want to put everyone in a "box" labeled 'conservative", "liberal", democrat, republican, etc and not really treat them as people with different viewpoints depending on the issue. One may be conservative with a financial issue and liberal with a social issue and on and on. It has made it almost impossible to discuss anything with anybody without being labeled or shouted down or treated like a pariah. Very sad.
 
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70Boiler: I totally agree with you. I too, was willing to give Trump a chance and at the beginning of his presidency, told people so. I was convinced that he would rise to the office he was given by the people but I was wrong and deeply disappointed by his inability to do so.
 
Sorry, I disagree with this one. The election was a huge exacerbating factor but the issues clearly predated the election, and without question have expanded geometrically since.
My issues are very little with the election itself. I could have lived with a Trump Presidency had there been a simple modicum of effort to move toward a unifying of the sides but his avoidance of such, together with his relentless claims of victimization, his self serving as opposed to country serving, his uncontrollable egotism, his total devaluation of a modicum of truthfulness, and those related personal issues that have been magnified are my issues. The willingness to refuse to consider that others actually have some knowledge is appalling, for example, today yet another judge with no real experience and who was rated "unqualified" by the ABA, coupled with the reprehensible methodology of earlier actions, such as the Garland Supreme Court appointment, all are far more consequential to me than simply a 2016 Republican Presidential win.
Apparently I have failed to express the 2016 election in terms that mirror your description of Donald Trump's manifest shortcomings. His ELECTION , as you suggest, didn't result in this board's deteriorating discourse , but your condensed inventory of his complete lack of fitness for the job of President is testament to the difficulty of communicating with people who will defend it.
 
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70Boiler: I totally agree with you. I too, was willing to give Trump a chance and at the beginning of his presidency, told people so. I was convinced that he would rise to the office he was given by the people but I was wrong and deeply disappointed by his inability to do so.
Swear by the Lord above, I had innumerable pictures in my mind during Trump's President-elect time that he'd just wake up one day and realize, " Hey, I've gotta be presidential, now ."
Swear.
 
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70Boiler: I totally agree with you. I too, was willing to give Trump a chance and at the beginning of his presidency, told people so. I was convinced that he would rise to the office he was given by the people but I was wrong and deeply disappointed by his inability to do so.
D'accord ma chére...
(Ooh...I hope that's the right non- romantic "my dear", lol. Damn pesky classes that I wish that I had paid more attention in.)
 
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Is that in some sort of code?

Doesn't make sense except you think everything you ''think'' which is a stretch anyway or say is always the truth. How pathetic is your life that you live 24/7 on a message board to verbally abuse anyone that doesn't agree with your obviously slanted take on everything? 3 2 1 for my proof!
If a post to ANOTHER POSTER contains "code", then you might consider just staying the hell out of it.
I'm tellin' ya' Squirrelguy.......back off.....DON'T get it started up, again.
 
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Swear by the Lord above, I had innumerable pictures in my mind during Trump's President-elect time that he'd just wake up one day and realize, " Hey, I've gotta be presidential, now ."
Swear.

I totally understand as I felt the same way. Interesting that at the beginning, Jimmy Carter and Obama both thought he should be given a chance and said so. I have come to believe that he has serious psychological problems. That he was sent to military school suggests that problems showed up early and that they could not be dealt with at his home. The incessant lying and the hiding of his past [school records, financial records, etc], the narcissism, and the Obama obsession are indicative of serious problems.
 
If a post to ANOTHER POSTER contains "code", then you might consider just staying the hell out of it.
I'm tellin' ya' Squirrelguy.......back off.....DON'T get it started up, again.
Are you threatening me asshole? My god you think so GD highly of yourself its pathetic. DON'T get it started up again? You are the abusive prick to everyone that doesnt agree with you. Is this board labeled the FREE LIBERAL AS LONG AS YOU AGREE WITH ME BOARD? I don't think so. I agree w Boiler Madness lots of things about Trump are cringe worthy but you and your followers act like Liberals are pure as fresh driven snow. That is such a joke , just tell me who amongst your candidates is so wonderful? Tell me to back off because you don't agree with me? You are a little worm.
 
Obviously, you don't or you would have a far better idea of my views and thoughts. I appreciate your comment supporting my view. It certainly didn't take long, did it?
What, you saying leftys aren't contentious and push things but righties do? I say again do you read this board? I have a lefty threatening me because he doesn't like my opinion. I haven't read everything you have said and haven't seen you be abusive like some of your friends on here . To say Leftys aren't contentious though ? That is quite a stretch
 
Sorry, I disagree with this one. The election was a huge exacerbating factor but the issues clearly predated the election, and without question have expanded geometrically since.
My issues are very little with the election itself. I could have lived with a Trump Presidency had there been a simple modicum of effort to move toward a unifying of the sides but his avoidance of such, together with his relentless claims of victimization, his self serving as opposed to country serving, his uncontrollable egotism, his total devaluation of a modicum of truthfulness, and those related personal issues that have been magnified are my issues. The willingness to refuse to consider that others actually have some knowledge is appalling, for example, today yet another judge with no real experience and who was rated "unqualified" by the ABA, coupled with the reprehensible methodology of earlier actions, such as the Garland Supreme Court appointment, all are far more consequential to me than simply a 2016 Republican Presidential win.

But lets say I grant all of those points.

One still has to pretend very hard that others had nothing and are not guilty of the issues you mention, especially unification. Mass protests(some ironically set up by Russia) that routinely mentioned violence, talks of impeachment started almost right away, talk of using the 25th amendment to remove President but it was a joke of course, suddenly reporters decide to try to debate policy instead of asking questions at pressers, I am still waiting for this treasonous behavior to come from somewhere-the list goes on and on. There were several more issues like this early on and over the years.

Sure, some of this is on Trump. But at some point any man is going to just tell people to get lost and fire back.
 
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