Don’t know if you saw Beto O interrupt Gov Abbot press conference. That incident just guaranteed Abbot’s re-election. LolLibs in charge son. Get something done.
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Don’t know if you saw Beto O interrupt Gov Abbot press conference. That incident just guaranteed Abbot’s re-election. LolLibs in charge son. Get something done.
The person that did this posted his plans online and no one did anything so his has nothing to do with the 2A or even owning a gun. Had they acted when they saw those posts, then this tragedy (likely) doesn't happen.
Edit: I would also add that there have been guns in our culture for generations and when they were easy to get, we didn't have mass shootings like this. So the object used or access to it isn't the problem, but something has changed over the last 30 years that needs to be investigated.
I would have agreed with you in the past, but with each passing massacre and the ensuing shrieks about “muh guns”, it seems pretty spot on to me.What a terrible take
So one thing you're leaving out, a lot of the rounds fired in an AR are also fired in long rifles (not AR 15). 223, 6.5 creedmoor etc.... the platform has zero to do with it and still doesn't change the fact that had people acted on the warning signs, this tragedy doesn't happen.My brother-in-law is LEO and ex-DEA. Not liberal in any sense of the word. His view is that these high-velocity rifles exist for one reason only and should not be readily available to average citizens as he has been on the other end of criminals armed with these weapons throughout his career.
If this kid came in with a handgun, he wouldn't have been able to take out that number of people in that short of time.
I am in favor of responsible gun ownership, but this isn't it.
What an AR-15 Can Do to the Human Body
When a patient is shot by an AR-15, it "looks like a grenade went off in there."www.wired.com
A handgun with a 15 round magazine is also fairly effective at killing people. And handguns account for the vast majority of gun deaths in the US.I've got one, call it whatever the hell you want to call it. It wasn't designed for hunting.....although I know people who do. You want to call it a target rifle, a range gun, a recreational firearm. Whatever. But it's a fact that an AR with a 30 round mag is pretty damn effective at killing people.
To be clear, arguing that we can't stop ALL these types of incidents so therefore we do nothing is BS. Similarly, arguing this one couldn't be stopped is also BS because you don't know that. We hear the same thing after every one of these from you people.......the laws weren't enforced or there should have been guards or the government should have done that or he posted online/why didn't SOMEBODY do SOMETHING? There's always a reason for why it couldn't have been stopped. You never look for a way it could have been.
You keep circling back to existing laws when I'm clearly saying CHANGE THE DAMN LAWS. An 18 year old shouldn't be able to buy an AR. Period. There should be a waiting period. Make him go through the process of getting licensed. Make him get training. It's possible during that time he changes his mind or an instructor or family member sends up a flare. A hell of a lot of growing up usually happens from 18 to 21.
You want the government to pay people to scan through all the internet posts of an 18 year old looking for manifestos, have at it. Otherwise, you're putting the responsibility of catching him before the fact on his friends and contacts online. Is that where the responsibility lies?
Problem is, in this instance I am not sure those even would of stopped him as there was no indication this was going to happen other than what he posted online.Mental health needs to be addressed. Red flag laws are not being enforced.
We need to have mental health screenings as a prerequisite to purchasing and owning a firearm.
A bunch. I even have a tank.PF....do you have any weapons?
Funny, because all I see are republicans saying they want a military state by arming teachers and having armed guards at every door. Whoops, there goes that freedom bullshit. But hey, thanks for clarifying that you’re cool with dead kids.No....Republican's want all to live free. Period. We want everyone to be protected...unlike the Dem's want to protect Chicago folks.
How?Don’t know if you saw Beto O interrupt Gov Abbot press conference. That incident just guaranteed Abbot’s re-election. Lol
I wasn't pointing at the ar 15 as the reason for gun violence. I don't know where you get that I was. Never said that.A handgun with a 15 round magazine is also fairly effective at killing people. And handguns account for the vast majority of gun deaths in the US.
If we could all come together and agree that mental health screening should be a prerequisite for purchasing and possessing a firearm, we could save many lives. We also need to get illegal guns out of gang members' and criminals' hands. Pointing at the AR15 as the reason for gun violence is like blaming sports cars for all vehicular deaths.
My brother-in-law is LEO and ex-DEA. Not liberal in any sense of the word. His view is that these high-velocity rifles exist for one reason only and should not be readily available to average citizens as he has been on the other end of criminals armed with these weapons throughout his career.
If this kid came in with a handgun, he wouldn't have been able to take out that number of people in that short of time.
I am in favor of responsible gun ownership, but this isn't it.
What an AR-15 Can Do to the Human Body
When a patient is shot by an AR-15, it "looks like a grenade went off in there."www.wired.com
Another "gun expert" who knows nothing about guns. My 30-06 bolt action hunting rifle would do significantly more damage to the human body than the 5.56 round that the AR15 was designed to use. I can also buy a semi-auto 30-06 hunting rifle that fires at the same rate as the AR15.
Secondarily, why not discuss the weapon that kills more US citizens and police than any other weapon combined? The handgun is the most dangerous weapon that citizens can possess. It can be concealed easily and possessed by anyone without the knowledge of people around them. Statistically, the AR15 is a blip on the radar in comparison.
It's not about the weapon. It's about the mental health of the user...
So it's the weapon and not mental health? We need mental health screenings prior to purchase...I wasn't pointing at the ar 15 as the reason for gun violence. I don't know where you get that I was. Never said that.
It was the weapon this teenager purchased a few days after his 18th birthday, just days before he killed these children. Actually he bought TWO. That's why I'm talking about that particular firearm.
Be glad to talk about handguns if you like.
The two things aren’t mutually exclusive, you know. It’s absolutely fine to admit we have both a gun issue and a mental health crisis in this country, Pat.
Nope because the lefty Dems in Chitcago have made it nearly impossible for Joe average to have a gun legally.You are so out of touch it is not funny. I think you are challenged as far as intelligent. In Chi-town, if someone from the Gangster Disciples wants to take out members of the Latin Kings on the corner of 71st Street and Stoney Island, you are telling me that some average Joe with gun is going to stop that? Is that what you are telling us?
Your response doesn't deserve a comment regarding dead kids.Funny, because all I see are republicans saying they want a military state by arming teachers and having armed guards at every door. Whoops, there goes that freedom bullshit. But hey, thanks for clarifying that you’re cool with dead kids.
So……some common sense gun control? Because that’s really what it is. I mean we can call it what we want, but it would be something put in place to help keep guns out of hands of people who shouldn’t have them. And it would be a start. Sounds like we have some common ground here with this.They aren't mutually exclusive. But we have millions of responsible gun owners that have existed in the US for decades. Killings like this weren't common decades ago. What we really need is mental health screenings as a prerequisite for purchasing and owning a gun...
I didn’t ask for one. It’s clear where you stand.Your response doesn't deserve a comment regarding dead kids.
Bullshit. Who or what was stopping the guy from killing every kid in the room with a handgun once he barricaded himself in the room and eliminated the adults?My brother-in-law is LEO and ex-DEA. Not liberal in any sense of the word. His view is that these high-velocity rifles exist for one reason only and should not be readily available to average citizens as he has been on the other end of criminals armed with these weapons throughout his career.
If this kid came in with a handgun, he wouldn't have been able to take out that number of people in that short of time.
I am in favor of responsible gun ownership, but this isn't it.
What an AR-15 Can Do to the Human Body
When a patient is shot by an AR-15, it "looks like a grenade went off in there."www.wired.com
You do know that I can put 30 round clips on many of my handguns, which with two guns gives me 60 shots. With extra clips, that's 120 shots in not a long time.I wasn't pointing at the ar 15 as the reason for gun violence. I don't know where you get that I was. Never said that.
It was the weapon this teenager purchased a few days after his 18th birthday, just days before he killed these children. Actually he bought TWO. That's why I'm talking about that particular firearm.
Be glad to talk about handguns if you like.
I have no issue with some common sense gun control (not gun bans) There are WAY too many mental health issues in this country for guns to be in the wrong hands. There are millions of responsible gun owners in this country that I believe would support this.So……some common sense gun control? Because that’s really what it is. I mean we can call it what we want, but it would be something put in place to help keep guns out of hands of people who shouldn’t have them. And it would be a start. Sounds like we have some common ground here with this.
After reading this I truly asking, in 30 minutes no one stepped up to stop this? It all could of been avoid:Problem is, in this instance I am not sure those even would of stopped him as there was no indication this was going to happen other than what he posted online.
You don’t know that. Also, what about the next mass shooting? You’re just kicking the can down the road with this grandstanding.After reading this I truly asking, in 30 minutes no one stepped up to stop this? It all could of been avoid:
Abbott confirmed that Ramos had made three Facebook posts in the roughly 30 minutes leading up to the shooting.
"I'm going to shoot my grandmother," Ramos posted first.
"I shot my grandmother," he posted few minutes later.
"I'm going to shoot an elementary shool," the third post read.
This shooting and any shooting where someone is killed is horrible...but it's brought to a much higher light when it's innocent kids....like in Chicago. Simple question Pat...are you okay going back to profiling those with mental issues which would take someone pointing it out to authorities? Are you in or would you be in favor of homes for the mentally insane?So it's the weapon and not mental health? We need mental health screenings prior to purchase...
Oh now this one is a real gem. Do tell, which Christian values are you referring to? Because these days, many people who say they’re” Christian “ post photos of their entire family holding guns for their annual family xmas portrait. Do you mean those Christian values?The slow disintegration of the traditional family unit and Christian values.
What I posted is directly from the news report so yeah, we DO know that. Zero grandstanding, it's just simple fact because if something was done or said to the proper authorities in that timeframe, this doesn't happen. It's not any more complicated than that.You don’t know that. Also, what about the next mass shooting? You’re just kicking the can down the road with this grandstanding.
I’m not being disingenuous here at all. You’re claiming for a fact that this could have been stopped just because he posted something on Facebook. You don’t know that at all. It’s pure speculation on your part.What I posted is directly from the news report so yeah, we DO know that. Zero grandstanding, it's just simple fact because if something was done or said, this doesn't happen. It's not any more complicated than that.
You're just being as disingenuous as always because it ruins your narrative until you regurgitate it when the next shooting happens as the warning signs are ignored...... again.
Years ago, we didn't have 235 channels on the TV trying to out do each other. Do you believe this would have happened had the Buffalo shooter hadn't got all the attention from those 235 channels? I still believe that spurs others.They aren't mutually exclusive. But we have millions of responsible gun owners that have existed in the US for decades. Killings like this weren't common decades ago. What we really need is mental health screenings as a prerequisite for purchasing and owning a gun...
So I as a Christian can't have guns? Or a house keeper?Oh now this one is a real gem. Do tell, which Christian values are you referring to? Because these days, many people who say they’re” Christian “ post photos of their entire family holding guns for their annual family xmas portrait. Do you mean those Christian values?
Traditional family unit? Is this 1945? 2.2 kids and a white picket fence and a stepford wife and a black housekeeper? Is that what you mean?
Nope not doing anything you say here at all and certainly nothing different than you speculating that tougher gun laws would of done anything. What I posted at least was based on something tangible and not hyperbole like your assumptions.I’m not being disingenuous here at all. You’re claiming for a fact that this could have been stopped just because he posted something on Facebook. You don’t know that at all. It’s pure speculation on your part.
Even so, you’re at worst making an excuse here and at best just kicking the can down the road until the next mass shooting.
Or delayed it, or had him find other means.
And there it is. We're more worried about someone's feelings than stepping up and stopping someone. Especially in this instance when it was apparently very evident and they literally talked about shooting up the school.
Why were the school doors not locked?
I couldn't agree more that we need mental health screenings. Tell your republican Congressman or woman.So it's the weapon and not mental health? We need mental health screenings prior to purchase...
You'd have to be heartless to not feel for the families and be sad when looking at these pictures. That doesn't change the fact that the solutions the Dems want will not fix the issue and will only cause more death in other areas.
How am I being hypocritical? You’re absolutely kicking the can down the street because you’re focusing on hyperbole.Nope not doing anything you say here at all and certainly nothing different than you speculating that tougher gun laws would of done anything. What I posted at least was based on something tangible and not hyperbole like your assumptions.
But if you weren't being your typical hypocritical self, I'd be worried about you.
Oh and there is this:
He also allegedly posted disturbing images before the shooting, and apparently messaged a woman about his plans before he carried out the deadly attack.
So again yeah, someone knew and did nothing and could of stopped the whole thing. You wanting to ignore it to follow your narrative doesn't make it any less of a fact.
Yeah, but not 100,000 in 2 days hypothetically. If that happens, uh oh.Black Americans are leading all gun sales now in the USA. FACT.
Becomes a military style weapon when attach 30, 50 rounds magazines on the darn thing.First, the AR isn't a military style weapon. It looks scary I know, but that is the only thing remotely militaristic about it. And all those laws you want to change, still wouldn't of stopped it .. why? Because he passed the existing laws that already do background checks. You can keep circling back to that all you want, but it's just the facts. No laws no or future other than outright making every gun illegal stops this...... but then again, drugs and murder are illegal so I doubt that would help.
And you keep ignoring the hard fact that this kid posted online that this was coming ...... why are you not as up in arms over what REALLY could of stopped it had someone just stepped in?