Why aren't Purdue fans clamoring for more shooters?

[northside100]

I keep reading about Purdue's shortfall being a dearth of athletes or an antiquated offense, but it is an undisputable fact that when Purdue lost last season it was primarily because they couldn't shoot the ball from deep and that allowed defenses to sag in the middle and gum up the rest of the offense. Defense was worse in losses than in wins but the offense was abysmal at just over 61 points per game.

Three Point Shooting was a weakness all year but in the six losses the shooting was abhorrent, averaging 24% from deep, shooting 22% or worse four times and below 20% twice. They still got good looks and shot the same number of threes per game in losses versus wins (21), but their conversion percentage was the worst in the country.

 

[ChuckJr]

It's not the shooting, it's the making that's an issue.

 

[Smokestack91]

Well, Smith shot the ball well this last year, and Loyer and Newman came here as elite shooters. So, there certainly has been an emphasis on recruiting the best shooters in each class. But, for whatever reason, it didn't translate into results this last season (or at least late in the season).

 

[PurdueDave]

I keep reading about Purdue's shortfall being a dearth of athletes or an antiquated offense, but it is an undisputable fact that when Purdue lost last season it was primarily because they couldn't shoot the ball from deep and that allowed defenses to sag in the middle and gum up the rest of the offense. Defense was worse in losses than in wins but the offense was abysmal at just over 61 points per game.

Three Point Shooting was a weakness all year but in the six losses the shooting was abhorrent, averaging 24% from deep, shooting 22% or worse four times and below 20% twice. They still got good looks and shot the same number of threes per game in losses versus wins (21), but their conversion percentage was the worst in the country.

You'd be correct in your assessment, but that doesn't fit the narrative others want to propagate.

 

[Boiler Buck]

I keep reading about Purdue's shortfall being a dearth of athletes or an antiquated offense, but it is an undisputable fact that when Purdue lost last season it was primarily because they couldn't shoot the ball from deep and that allowed defenses to sag in the middle and gum up the rest of the offense. Defense was worse in losses than in wins but the offense was abysmal at just over 61 points per game.

Three Point Shooting was a weakness all year but in the six losses the shooting was abhorrent, averaging 24% from deep, shooting 22% or worse four times and below 20% twice. They still got good looks and shot the same number of threes per game in losses versus wins (21), but their conversion percentage was the worst in the country.

It amazes me how bad the shooting was save Smith and Jenkins late.

But stats say the door is open @ the 2, 3 & 4 for a guy that can consistently hit a 3 or even open jumpers ..... wether that comes through ZO like practice or through the new frosh....but it's needed.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I keep reading about Purdue's shortfall being a dearth of athletes or an antiquated offense, but it is an undisputable fact that when Purdue lost last season it was primarily because they couldn't shoot the ball from deep and that allowed defenses to sag in the middle and gum up the rest of the offense. Defense was worse in losses than in wins but the offense was abysmal at just over 61 points per game.

Three Point Shooting was a weakness all year but in the six losses the shooting was abhorrent, averaging 24% from deep, shooting 22% or worse four times and below 20% twice. They still got good looks and shot the same number of threes per game in losses versus wins (21), but their conversion percentage was the worst in the country.

You aren’t likely going to have 4 good 3 point shooting games in a row no matter who you bring in, so you will need someone who can take it to the rack when the 3s aren’t falling.

 

[northside100]

You aren’t likely going to have 4 good 3 point shooting games in a row no matter who you bring in, so you will need someone who can take it to the rack when the 3s aren’t falling.

I agree that offensive versatility is important and I don't disagree with your overall premise. I will point out that we had a guy who was ELITE at getting to the rack two years ago and that didn't work out very well for him when the opponent decided to take that away and dare us to hit outside shots.

In an ideal world you have both and when you have a bad shooting game you shoot 30%, not 19% and 24% (FDU and St. Pete's). I did look up how the FF teams this year shot in the NCAAT and found that all four were very good three point shooting teams in the regular season.

Their shooting in the NCAAT was a mixed bag. UConn was very good throughout. Miami was very good except for the Texas game and they only shot eight threes that game and put up a million points. SDSU struggled, but shot well in probably their two toughest games prior to the final, 35% against Alabama and 50% vs FAU. FAU struggled in early rounds but never shot below 29% and then shot 39% and 41% in the EE and FF.

UConn - 44%, 46%, 45%, 36%, 35%, 35% - 23 attempts per game in NCAAT - 36% on the year

Miami - 33%, 39%, 44%, 25%, 35% - only took 8 threes the game they shot 25%, otherwise averaged 21 attempts per game in NCAAT - 37% on the year

SDSU - 25%, 30%, 35%, 23%, 50%, 26% - 18 attempts per game in NCAAT - 35% on the year

FAU - 29%, 29%, 30%, 39%, 41% - 27 attempts per game in the NCAAT - 37% on the year

 

[BoilerDaddy]

I agree that offensive versatility is important and I don't disagree with your overall premise. I will point out that we had a guy who was ELITE at getting to the rack two years ago and that didn't work out very well for him when the opponent decided to take that away and dare us to hit outside shots.

In an ideal world you have both and when you have a bad shooting game you shoot 30%, not 19% and 24% (FDU and St. Pete's). I did look up how the FF teams this year shot in the NCAAT and found that all four were very good three point shooting teams in the regular season.

Their shooting in the NCAAT was a mixed bag. UConn was very good throughout. Miami was very good except for the Texas game and they only shot eight threes that game and put up a million points. SDSU struggled, but shot well in probably their two toughest games prior to the final, 35% against Alabama and 50% vs FAU. FAU struggled in early rounds but never shot below 29% and then shot 39% and 41% in the EE and FF.

UConn - 44%, 46%, 45%, 36%, 35%, 35% - 23 attempts per game in NCAAT - 36% on the year

Miami - 33%, 39%, 44%, 25%, 35% - only took 8 threes the game they shot 25%, otherwise averaged 21 attempts per game in NCAAT - 37% on the year

SDSU - 25%, 30%, 35%, 23%, 50%, 26% - 18 attempts per game in NCAAT - 35% on the year

FAU - 29%, 29%, 30%, 39%, 41% - 27 attempts per game in the NCAAT - 37% on the year

Even in the Miami game against Texas, Miami forced Texas to guard the perimeter and it opened up the middle. Where poor 3 point shooting really becomes an issue is when the opponent concedes them and you still can’t make them.

 

[SCBoiler1]

You aren’t likely going to have 4 good 3 point shooting games in a row no matter who you bring in, so you will need someone who can take it to the rack when the 3s aren’t falling.

The term "good" is relative. Purdue had 10 games that they shot under 25% from 3 last year. Kind of what you'd expect from a team that shot 32% from 3.

The 2017/2018 team shot 42% from 3. That team had 3 games where it shot under 25%. A bad game for that team may be an average game for last years team.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

I keep reading about Purdue's shortfall being a dearth of athletes or an antiquated offense, but it is an undisputable fact that when Purdue lost last season it was primarily because they couldn't shoot the ball from deep and that allowed defenses to sag in the middle and gum up the rest of the offense. Defense was worse in losses than in wins but the offense was abysmal at just over 61 points per game.

Three Point Shooting was a weakness all year but in the six losses the shooting was abhorrent, averaging 24% from deep, shooting 22% or worse four times and below 20% twice. They still got good looks and shot the same number of threes per game in losses versus wins (21), but their conversion percentage was the worst in the country.

Because we have enough. Now they just need to be better.

 

[purduedavie]

I for one clammered, Frederick who committed to Cincy was a guy I was hoping they’d look at. Ideally, a 15-20 minute Sharp Shooter would be nice to add, seems like Edey might return, him dishing to an open wing that can shoot the 3 would be nice.

 

[northside100]

Because we have enough. Now they just need to be better.

I hope you're right and you may be. Hard for me to feel confident when we only return two guys who shot 35% or better last year.

 

[LousiBFree]

Not only did we shoot poorly, late in the season, but we shot scared. No confidence, and a complete unwillingness to shoot in the NCAAT game. I think it is the psychology, both player and coach, toward shooting that needs to change.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Because we have enough. Now they just need to be better.

The data says we have enough shooters but not enough makers.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Not only did we shoot poorly, late in the season, but we shot scared. No confidence, and a complete unwillingness to shoot in the NCAAT game. I think it is the psychology, both player and coach, toward shooting that needs to change.

What I hear from Painter is confidence in his shooters. He has had shooters perform well in the NCAAT in the past. Not sure what he can do differently. The players need to overcome their hesitation.

 

[Gman544]

Teams that reach the FF or win the NC have multiple players who can get their own shot, from three, mid range and at the hoop. They also have a few shooters.

Purdue had enough shooters, but knowing Painter teams usually choke a few key games each year they need more athletic players to diversify scoring opportunities.

 

[northside100]

Teams that reach the FF or win the NC have multiple players who can get their own shot, from three, mid range and at the hoop. They also have a few shooters.

Purdue had enough shooters, but knowing Painter teams usually choke a few key games each year they need more athletic players to diversify scoring opportunities.

I've not seen data that supports any of your points above. I do agree that it will be helpful if players like Heide and Colvin can provide the diversity of scoring option that you reference.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

The data says we have enough shooters but not enough makers.

Thought we were Makers all? I'm so confused.

 

[BoilerDeac]

I keep reading about Purdue's shortfall being a dearth of athletes or an antiquated offense, but it is an undisputable fact that when Purdue lost last season it was primarily because they couldn't shoot the ball from deep and that allowed defenses to sag in the middle and gum up the rest of the offense. Defense was worse in losses than in wins but the offense was abysmal at just over 61 points per game.

Three Point Shooting was a weakness all year but in the six losses the shooting was abhorrent, averaging 24% from deep, shooting 22% or worse four times and below 20% twice. They still got good looks and shot the same number of threes per game in losses versus wins (21), but their conversion percentage was the worst in the country.

They're shooting poorly not because they aren't good shooters.

They're shooting poorly because they play scared and tight.

That's a reflection of the head coach.

Getting more shooters isn't the answer.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

They're shooting poorly not because they aren't good shooters.

They're shooting poorly because they play scared and tight.

That's a reflection of the head coach.

Getting more shooters isn't the answer.

This is part of it, in some cases. Some were definitely scared to shoot against FDU.

But if so, why didn’t Cline, Carsen, Ivey, Hummel, Etwaun, Kramer etc play scared ?

 

[BoilerDeac]

This is part of it, in some cases. Some were definitely scared to shoot against FDU.

But if so, why didn’t Cline, Carsen, Ivey, Hummel, Etwaun, Kramer etc play scared ?

Because those guys were DOGS.

 

[purduedavie]

I still hope after things shake out Purdue adds a speciality player, preferably a 2/3 type capable of playing 15-20 minutes a game, they’ll be plenty of guys looking for places to play once teams get rosters filled.

 

[northside100]

This is part of it, in some cases. Some were definitely scared to shoot against FDU.

But if so, why didn’t Cline, Carsen, Ivey, Hummel, Etwaun, Kramer etc play scared ?

I had the same thought. I get that the buck stops with the head coach but it has to go both ways. He can shoulder some of the blame for poor shooting to the same extent that he can take some credit for good shooting.

No excuses but I think one could easily point to two of Purdue’s best shooters being freshmen and another dealing with a back injury for most of the season as more impactful than anything Painter did or didn’t do.

 

[rgarlitz]

My take: it really comes down to do we believe that Smith/Loyer can develop into elite players or not? How much better can they be next year?

Those guys were lights out early in the season when everyone's attention was on Edey. They seemed to wear down late in the season when teams figured out that it's much easier to bully freshman guards into mistakes than it is to shut down an All-American.

Personally, I think Braden Smith will be fine--maybe even great. He's a little undersized, but he will get stronger. He's a tough-as-nails competitor who doesn't back down from challenges. And, he's shown the ability to get to the rim. Smith will be a thorn in the sides of a lot of opponents. He's the exact kind of player that Purdue fans are talking about when they complain about all these plucky mid-major guards beating Purdue in the NCAA Tournament.

Loyer, I don't know. I think he will get better, but I don't know where his ceiling is. Maybe he's a year or two away from greatness. Maybe he'll be a hot-and-cold shooter his entire career.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Because those guys were DOGS.

Agreed. And Painter needs some of these guys to become dogs, especially the 2 freshmen, and I think they will over time.

 

[Boiler Buck]

My take: it really comes down to do we believe that Smith/Loyer can develop into elite players or not? How much better can they be next year?

Those guys were lights out early in the season when everyone's attention was on Edey. They seemed to wear down late in the season when teams figured out that it's much easier to bully freshman guards into mistakes than it is to shut down an All-American.

Personally, I think Braden Smith will be fine--maybe even great. He's a little undersized, but he will get stronger. He's a tough-as-nails competitor who doesn't back down from challenges. And, he's shown the ability to get to the rim. Smith will be a thorn in the sides of a lot of opponents. He's the exact kind of player that Purdue fans are talking about when they complain about all these plucky mid-major guards beating Purdue in the NCAA Tournament.

Loyer, I don't know. I think he will get better, but I don't know where his ceiling is. Maybe he's a year or two away from greatness. Maybe he'll be a hot-and-cold shooter his entire career.

100% agree

Smith maybe becomes this teams Billy Keller?

Loyer will be great as a senior.

Trouble is he has been put in a position where fans want that play now. Just not strong or confident enough yet. Best thing for Loyer, right now, is a 6th man role, backing up the guard spots.

 

[northside100]

100% agree

Smith maybe becomes this teams Billy Keller?

Loyer will be great as a senior.

Trouble is he has been put in a position where fans want that play now. Just not strong or confident enough yet. Best thing for Loyer, right now, is a 6th man role, backing up the guard spots.

Right. IT and Newman not developing as Painter hoped / expected and Jaden becoming a lottery pick after his sophomore year put Braden’ and Fletcher in positions where too much has been asked of them.

 

[Hausta01]

Because we aren't Alabama!

 

[rgarlitz]

100% agree

Smith maybe becomes this teams Billy Keller?

Loyer will be great as a senior.

Trouble is he has been put in a position where fans want that play now. Just not strong or confident enough yet. Best thing for Loyer, right now, is a 6th man role, backing up the guard spots.

Personally, I'll be very happy if Braden Smith has a career similar to Aaron Craft of OSU. I think Braden can realistically be that level of a player. Their freshmen stats were comparable.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Personally, I'll be very happy if Braden Smith has a career similar to Aaron Craft of OSU. I think Braden can realistically be that level of a player. Their freshmen stats were comparable.

I would hope anyone would be ECSTATIC if Braden has a similar career to Aaron Craft.

 

[rgarlitz]

I would hope anyone would be ESCSTATCIC if Braden has a similar career to Aaron Craft.

I'm sure most would be. A handful will toss it all aside if there's no final four.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

I hope you're right and you may be. Hard for me to feel confident when we only return two guys who shot 35% or better last year.

Not hard for me to feel confident when we started and relied heavily on two undersized freshmen guards that got beat up physically. Colvin and Heide both show very nice feathery jumpers and Waddell can shoot it as well. TKR needs to take more shots away from the basket too.
Not hard at all.

 

[Roeder]

My take: it really comes down to do we believe that Smith/Loyer can develop into elite players or not? How much better can they be next year?

Those guys were lights out early in the season when everyone's attention was on Edey. They seemed to wear down late in the season when teams figured out that it's much easier to bully freshman guards into mistakes than it is to shut down an All-American.

Personally, I think Braden Smith will be fine--maybe even great. He's a little undersized, but he will get stronger. He's a tough-as-nails competitor who doesn't back down from challenges. And, he's shown the ability to get to the rim. Smith will be a thorn in the sides of a lot of opponents. He's the exact kind of player that Purdue fans are talking about when they complain about all these plucky mid-major guards beating Purdue in the NCAA Tournament.

Loyer, I don't know. I think he will get better, but I don't know where his ceiling is. Maybe he's a year or two away from greatness. Maybe he'll be a hot-and-cold shooter his entire career.

Agree. These 2 are why I'm not too worried about 3 point shooting next year. Both project to get high minutes and the bulk of the 3 point shot volume again and I think will be around 40% or better for their careers to anchor this team behind the arc.

It's pretty amazing what Smith did IMO. Critics will say he played 30 mins and was the only option, so of course he will have good stats. I think the opposite. Anytime you have a Freshman PG that can be the only primary ball handler AND still be productive with only 2 TOs a game, you have something special IMO. He missed the entire off season last year recovering from foot surgery. Give him a summer in the gym and a year's experience under his belt and the game will move slower for him and things like his 3 point shooting will only improve IMO. You know he'll put in the time to improve.

Loyer's inconsistencies shooting toward the end of the year were frustrating, but if you look at his pedigree as a shooter/scorer combined with adding strength in the off season I think he can make a significant jump next year in his percentages. What I love about Fletch is he isn't afraid (the only guy who could hit from outside against FDU, probably should have went to him more in hindsight),, hit several clutch shots (@ OSU, Rutgers), and put this team on his back during stetches in road games a few times (@MSU, @NEB). That is something you can't teach. I'm betting on him becoming more consistent with experience.

After that, you hope Heide, Colvin, Jones, and Gillis can collectively hit 30-35% to keep people honest. I think they can. Hopefully one of those guys can be the 3rd knock down threat and be closer to 40%. Anything Furst or TKR give is gravy.

 

[northside100]

Not hard for me to feel confident when we started and relied heavily on two undersized freshmen guards that got beat up physically. Colvin and Heide both show very nice feathery jumpers and Waddell can shoot it as well. TKR needs to take more shots away from the basket too.
Not hard at all.

I can absolutely see that scenario unfolding. I'd add the a healthy Gillis could really boost the team's outside shooting as well. I'm more cautious in my optimism than you but I hope you're right.

 

[RFSNES]

I want more scorers, they all can shoot, don't need more of theat. Watch what you ask for.

 

[Purdue0023]

Am I the only one who thinks perhaps our strength and conditioning program is out of control? I mean are we doing intense weights in February and March? If we are, it just seems so counter-intuitive to do so. We almost always seem to have a February, March lull in our shooting success. Something is going on and I am not sure it is all psychological. I mean some of it likely is but maybe something else is having an effect as well. When you see a trend happening year after year after year, you have to ask yourself what is going on and what can we do differently. The only year we shot lights out at the end of the year was 2019. Whatever we did that year we need to look at closely. Maybe 2019 was just a fluke or perhaps something else was different. Idk, but we always seem to start the season strong and then get slowly worse as the season progresses. Does anyone else have any ideas?

 

[Gman544]

Am I the only one who thinks perhaps our strength and conditioning program is out of control? I mean are we doing intense weights in February and March? If we are, it just seems so counter-intuitive to do so. We almost always seem to have a February, March lull in our shooting success. Something is going on and I am not sure it is all psychological. I mean some of it likely is but maybe something else is having an effect as well. When you see a trend happening year after year after year, you have to ask yourself what is going on and what can we do differently. The only year we shot lights out at the end of the year was 2019. Whatever we did that year we need to look at closely. Maybe 2019 was just a fluke or perhaps something else was different. Idk, but we always seem to start the season strong and then get slowly worse as the season progresses. Does anyone else have any ideas?

2019 Carsen had big ones and Kline caught up in the wave.

 

[northside100]

Am I the only one who thinks perhaps our strength and conditioning program is out of control? I mean are we doing intense weights in February and March? If we are, it just seems so counter-intuitive to do so. We almost always seem to have a February, March lull in our shooting success. Something is going on and I am not sure it is all psychological. I mean some of it likely is but maybe something else is having an effect as well. When you see a trend happening year after year after year, you have to ask yourself what is going on and what can we do differently. The only year we shot lights out at the end of the year was 2019. Whatever we did that year we need to look at closely. Maybe 2019 was just a fluke or perhaps something else was different. Idk, but we always seem to start the season strong and then get slowly worse as the season progresses. Does anyone else have any ideas?

2018 team consistently shot the ball very welll. We’ve not had a talented, mature backcourt since those two teams.

 

[dumpsterFyre]

*Clamor* *clamor* *clamor*😓

 

[BoilerDaddy]

2018 team consistently shot the ball very welll. We’ve not had a talented, mature backcourt since those two teams.

Give Smith and Loyer a little time. They are just getting started.