Who plays the 3 and why?

[BoilerNGold013]

Below is the order of most minutes I would say at the 3 position based on ability to do the following: 3 pt shooting, passing/decison making, defense
Morton - bad, good, avg
Jones - unknown, unknown, good
Waddell - avg, avg, bad
Heide - avg, unknown, bad

If Waddell has gotten his athletism back from his knee energy he may get more minutes as season goes if he proves he can defend. I dont see Heide getting many minutes at all this year unless he is a lot better defender than I think he is. In my criteria I left off rebounding becuase I think we should enough collective rebounding ability on the floor at one time to make up for the 3 spot rebounding ability.

Ultimately I can only hope Morton has improved his 3 pt shooting and Waddell got his athletism back so he and Jones can rotate as the back up 3. CANNOT have Morton playing 35 minutes a game at the 3 and expect to achieve any goals this year. He is not the type of athlete that can maintain a high level of play at that many minutes at the 3.

 

[northside100]

No revisionist at all. If you read the recruiting info, you'll see it in there that he struggled against the athletes he faced in AAU.
Yeh, if I had my choice, I'll take a scorer over a defender 10 times out of 10, especially a guy at the guard position. But if your guard is a liability on offense, then I think there's something wrong with your offensive philosophy.

I followed the recruitment as it happened, if you have reports with analysts saying that Morton struggled against the competition in AAU I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong, it certainly wouldn’t be the first time.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I share the hope that someone can come in and play better than Morton did last year. I'd probably not be fun to have a conversation with if the view is 'Morton sucks and anyone new has to be better than him'

I understand you do! that’s why I stopped arguing with you haha. I would still enjoy a Purdue Bball convo either way, my friend!

 

[northside100]

Below is the order of most minutes I would say at the 3 position based on ability to do the following: 3 pt shooting, passing/decison making, defense
Morton - bad, good, avg
Jones - unknown, unknown, good
Waddell - avg, avg, bad
Heide - avg, unknown, bad

If Waddell has gotten his athletism back from his knee energy he may get more minutes as season goes if he proves he can defend. I dont see Heide getting many minutes at all this year unless he is a lot better defender than I think he is. In my criteria I left off rebounding becuase I think we should enough collective rebounding ability on the floor at one time to make up for the 3 spot rebounding ability.

Ultimately I can only hope Morton has improved his 3 pt shooting and Waddell got his athletism back so he and Jones can rotate as the back up 3. CANNOT have Morton playing 35 minutes a game at the 3 and expect to achieve any goals this year. He is not the type of athlete that can maintain a high level of play at that many minutes at the 3.

Good post, agree with your player evaluation and assertion that one of the other guys stepping up at the 3 spot would be good for the team.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Below is the order of most minutes I would say at the 3 position based on ability to do the following: 3 pt shooting, passing/decison making, defense
Morton - bad, good, avg
Jones - unknown, unknown, good
Waddell - avg, avg, bad
Heide - avg, unknown, bad

If Waddell has gotten his athletism back from his knee energy he may get more minutes as season goes if he proves he can defend. I dont see Heide getting many minutes at all this year unless he is a lot better defender than I think he is. In my criteria I left off rebounding becuase I think we should enough collective rebounding ability on the floor at one time to make up for the 3 spot rebounding ability.

Ultimately I can only hope Morton has improved his 3 pt shooting and Waddell got his athletism back so he and Jones can rotate as the back up 3. CANNOT have Morton playing 35 minutes a game at the 3 and expect to achieve any goals this year. He is not the type of athlete that can maintain a high level of play at that many minutes at the 3.

How do you know Heide and Waddell are bad at defense? Also, don’t leave rebounding out. Can never have enough rebounding. If we get one rebound at the end of the game in the E8, we are one to the F4.

While I agree with you on Morton not playing much, no one is playing 35 min a game. Morton should see 10-15 max, unless he miraculously can be more of a threat on offense.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

No revisionist at all. If you read the recruiting info, you'll see it in there that he struggled against the athletes he faced in AAU.
Yeh, if I had my choice, I'll take a scorer over a defender 10 times out of 10, especially a guy at the guard position. But if your guard is a liability on offense, then I think there's something wrong with your offensive philosophy.

I am all for trying someone new at the 3 since Morton hasn’t been the best, but look at all the other teams that he had offers from…(I can’t believe I am defending this haha). We weren’t the only ones who thought he’d be better than he has been.

 

[northside100]

How do you know Heide and Waddell are bad at defense? Also, don’t leave rebounding out. Can never have enough rebounding. If we get one rebound at the end of the game in the E8, we are one to the F4.

While I agree with you on Morton not playing much, no one is playing 35 min a game. Morton should see 10-15 max, unless he miraculously can be more of a threat on offense.

Good point on Heide and Waddell on defense, we just don't know.

I'll say it again but I don't think it would be 'miraculous' for Morton to shoot in the mid to high 30's from deep given that he shot 33% and 40% in conference the last two years.

 

[M51]

Below is the order of most minutes I would say at the 3 position based on ability to do the following: 3 pt shooting, passing/decison making, defense
Morton - bad, good, avg
Jones - unknown, unknown, good
Waddell - avg, avg, bad
Heide - avg, unknown, bad

If Waddell has gotten his athletism back from his knee energy he may get more minutes as season goes if he proves he can defend. I dont see Heide getting many minutes at all this year unless he is a lot better defender than I think he is. In my criteria I left off rebounding becuase I think we should enough collective rebounding ability on the floor at one time to make up for the 3 spot rebounding ability.

Ultimately I can only hope Morton has improved his 3 pt shooting and Waddell got his athletism back so he and Jones can rotate as the back up 3. CANNOT have Morton playing 35 minutes a game at the 3 and expect to achieve any goals this year. He is not the type of athlete that can maintain a high level of play at that many minutes at the 3.

Morton will most likely start to begin the season. Hopefully he only plays max 10 mins/game.

Not sure why you have unknowns for Jones. He has played college ball for 4 yrs. His 3 pt avg has been up and down. Low assist numbers, a shoot first guard. Info is on the web if you care to do some research. Jones will primarily be back up at 1.

Waddell, should not play much. Has a weird shot. Athleticism, when?

Heide has not played a second of college ball, everything is unknown. Waddell is almost the same, only played scrub mins.

By mid-season, Colvin could be the starter at 3.

 

[BoilerNGold013]

How do you know Heide and Waddell are bad at defense? Also, don’t leave rebounding out. Can never have enough rebounding. If we get one rebound at the end of the game in the E8, we are one to the F4.

While I agree with you on Morton not playing much, no one is playing 35 min a game. Morton should see 10-15 max, unless he miraculously can be more of a threat on offense.

Waddell was terrible on defense last year. I hope its due to his recovery from injury and being a RS frosh but until he shows me different he goes in the bad.

For Heide its my guess he will be far behind jones and morton in terms of defense so he gets put in bad. Freshman usually are far behind on defense. Not a knock on him as a person he will just have to learn.

Yeah for Morton I would even settle for no more than 20 minutes per game. I actually really like Mortons all around game in small doses.

 

[Thadoc1]

Waddell was terrible on defense last year. I hope its due to his recovery from injury and being a RS frosh but until he shows me different he goes in the bad.

For Heide its my guess he will be far behind jones and morton in terms of defense so he gets put in bad. Freshman usually are far behind on defense. Not a knock on him as a person he will just have to learn.

Yeah for Morton I would even settle for no more than 20 minutes per game. I actually really like Mortons all around game in small doses.

Waddell led the team in blocks on the Euro trip....he's an elite wing defender...he'll be playing the most at 3 this year...he's a totally different player this year now that he's healthy...nba scouts were drooling over him as a freshman....

 

[Thadoc1]

Morton will most likely start to begin the season. Hopefully he only plays max 10 mins/game.

Not sure why you have unknowns for Jones. He has played college ball for 4 yrs. His 3 pt avg has been up and down. Low assist numbers, a shoot first guard. Info is on the web if you care to do some research. Jones will primarily be back up at 1.

Waddell, should not play much. Has a weird shot. Athleticism, when?

Heide has not played a second of college ball, everything is unknown. Waddell is almost the same, only played scrub mins.

By mid-season, Colvin could be the starter at 3.

You haven't watched Waddell in the scrimmage or Euro trip...he was our best 3 by far....he's very athletic, our best wing defender and the first one out on the break and he finished well too...he'll be playing big minutes this year....

 

[northside100]

Waddell led the team in blocks on the Euro trip....he's an elite wing defender...he'll be playing the most at 3 this year...he's a totally different player this year now that he's healthy...nba scouts were drooling over him as a freshman....

Elite 😂 Not could be elite but is elite? Love it!

 

[BoilerNGold013]

Morton will most likely start to begin the season. Hopefully he only plays max 10 mins/game.

Not sure why you have unknowns for Jones. He has played college ball for 4 yrs. His 3 pt avg has been up and down. Low assist numbers, a shoot first guard. Info is on the web if you care to do some research. Jones will primarily be back up at 1.

Waddell, should not play much. Has a weird shot. Athleticism, when?

Heide has not played a second of college ball, everything is unknown. Waddell is almost the same, only played scrub mins.

By mid-season, Colvin could be the starter at 3.

Fair point about jones and passing. I put him as unknown for shooting because he has had a mixed bag of success throughout his career but more than likey he will trend to the bad on shooting.
Wadell and athletism? Yeah buddy. NBA scouts were asking about him before his knee injury. Dude could jump with the best of them before the injury. I think pre injury he had all of the tools to be a high minute D1 bball player. We will see how he develops this year.

 

[BoilerNGold013]

Waddell led the team in blocks on the Euro trip....he's an elite wing defender...he'll be playing the most at 3 this year...he's a totally different player this year now that he's healthy...nba scouts were drooling over him as a freshman....

Waddell led the team in blocks on the Euro trip....he's an elite wing defender...he'll be playing the most at 3 this year...he's a totally different player this year now that he's healthy...nba scouts were drooling over him as a freshman....

Yeah but he was bad last year. Until proven otherwise in reg season competition he is in the bad category for defense.

With that being said, I hope he balls out and is all big ten and takes most of mortons minutes. I think pre injury his ceiling was way higher than mortons and would be a net plus replacent to Morton if he can get his athletism back.

 

[Heads up BOILER]

I’m going to wager that Jones is not going to log significant minutes at the 3. He’s only 6’1” and he will get most of his playing time at the 1 & 2 . I think Colvin will spend time at the 2 & 3, cutting into Loyers time as the year goes on as long as he continues to shoot well especially if Loyer doesn’t pull up his 3 point and overall field over goal percentage.

 

[ImRonBurgandy?]

You haven't watched Waddell in the scrimmage or Euro trip...he was our best 3 by far....he's very athletic, our best wing defender and the first one out on the break and he finished well too...he'll be playing big minutes this year....

Not saying Waddell won't play mins this year, but I think any good play on that Euro trip needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

 

[titaniumbolt]

TKR has taken a jump. Remains to be seen how and at what position that plays out. He may be the scoring 6th man we've been dying for. Furst may play with him. Gillis isn't a consideration for 3 and is a senior that's been an important part of this team for 4 years. he isn't getting parked on the bench.

Matt Painter.
Senior
Nuff said?

Yep. I would be shocked if Morton and Gillis don't get at least the same PT they've had the past years. I think Gillis/Furst get 35+ combined and Morton gets 30+ during league play.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

Yep. I would be shocked if Morton and Gillis don't get at least the same PT they've had the past years. I think Gillis/Furst get 35+ combined and Morton gets 30+ during league play.

Morton at 30+?! He played 25 last year and that was waaay too much. If he’s playing anywhere close to 20 and not shooting 35%+ from 3, I don’t think our chances are that great to make a deep run in March.

 

[northside100]

Yep. I would be shocked if Morton and Gillis don't get at least the same PT they've had the past years. I think Gillis/Furst get 35+ combined and Morton gets 30+ during league play.

You've got 80 minutes to divvy up between Zach, Caleb, Mason and Trey. If you say that Zach takes 30 at a minimum that leaves 50 for the other three. 35+ seems a bit high for Mason and Caleb but it wouldn't surprise me if they were in the 30 to 35 range. A lot of it will depend on who is shooting well.

I don't know how Ethan get's 30+ minutes even if he's playing well. Too many young guys that MP has to develop.

 

[northside100]

Yeah but he was bad last year. Until proven otherwise in reg season competition he is in the bad category for defense.

With that being said, I hope he balls out and is all big ten and takes most of mortons minutes. I think pre injury his ceiling was way higher than mortons and would be a net plus replacent to Morton if he can get his athletism back.

On what are you basing your assertion that Waddell was 'bad' on defense last year? Your eyeball test or something else?

 

[titaniumbolt]

Morton at 30+?! He played 25 last year and that was waaay too much. If he’s playing anywhere close to 20 and not shooting 35%+ from 3, I don’t think our chances are that great to make a deep run in March.

I didn't say I agree with Morton getting that much - but check out his year-over-year trajectory. CMP likes him.

 

[DwaynePurvis00]

I didn't say I agree with Morton getting that much - but check out his year-over-year trajectory. CMP likes him.

No way he plays 30+ this year…that’s edey and smith territory. We have too many ppl at the 3 for him to play more than 15-20 MAX.

 

[titaniumbolt]

No way he plays 30+ this year…that’s edey and smith territory. We have too many ppl at the 3 for him to play more than 15-20 MAX.

We'll see - I hope you are correct!

 

[bonefish1]

I didn't say I agree with Morton getting that much - but check out his year-over-year trajectory. CMP likes him.

It was said earlier, that if Morton is getting that much time (because Painter trusts him not to make mistakes) at the expense of allowing Colvin and Heide to make mistakes and figure things out, then we're in for a disappointing year.
We know what Morton brings and we know his ceiling, which he's probably at. Colvin and Heide's are a lot higher and the only way they get there is by playing in games.

 

[Thadoc1]

It was said earlier, that if Morton is getting that much time (because Painter trusts him not to make mistakes) at the expense of allowing Colvin and Heide to make mistakes and figure things out, then we're in for a disappointing year.
We know what Morton brings and we know his ceiling, which he's probably at. Colvin and Heide's are a lot higher and the only way they get there is by playing in games.

Waddell needs to play mortons minutes....heide can take minutes at the 4....Colvin can back up Waddell....Morton needs to play backup to jones, loyer, smith.....

 

[BoilerNGold013]

On what are you basing your assertion that Waddell was 'bad' on defense last year? Your eyeball test or something else?

The minutes he got post P2K tourney showed he was significantly behind defensively and then offensively when teams had a little film on him. Defenses would target him in pick and roll and drive on him. If he would have been farther along defensively and offensively he would have played more last year.

I am not counting the Euro trip in evaluations for is defense. Maybe his body is back to pre-injury level and his mind has caught onto the scheme more. If so great! I hope he takes time at the 3 because I think his ceiling is higher than Morton's. But until I see it during the reg season, he is goes in the bad category for defense. My rating is on past performance not future potential.

 

[Thadoc1]

The minutes he got post P2K tourney showed he was significantly behind defensively and then offensively when teams had a little film on him. Defenses would target him in pick and roll and drive on him. If he would have been farther along defensively and offensively he would have played more last year.

I am not counting the Euro trip in evaluations for is defense. Maybe his body is back to pre-injury level and his mind has caught onto the scheme more. If so great! I hope he takes time at the 3 because I think his ceiling is higher than Morton's. But until I see it during the reg season, he is goes in the bad category for defense. My rating is on past performance not future potential.

You realize he wasn't healthy last year right?...he's moving a lot better this year....I would look at his summer moreso than last year for his defensive outlook....

 

[tjreese]

The minutes he got post P2K tourney showed he was significantly behind defensively and then offensively when teams had a little film on him. Defenses would target him in pick and roll and drive on him. If he would have been farther along defensively and offensively he would have played more last year.

I am not counting the Euro trip in evaluations for is defense. Maybe his body is back to pre-injury level and his mind has caught onto the scheme more. If so great! I hope he takes time at the 3 because I think his ceiling is higher than Morton's. But until I see it during the reg season, he is goes in the bad category for defense. My rating is on past performance not future potential.

I'm not going to make a prediction in how many minutes Brian gets. However, at least for me...it is very easy to see he moves much better than last year and has added some strength. Someone said he had a "weird" shot and yes there isn't a lot of lift in the ball (more push), but he may still have a decent percentage. What I think may be Brian's best strength that I haven't seen anyone mention is that he is pretty cerebral in his play generally. He has some length and can handle the ball and make good decisions and typically plays within his self. I've seen him once or twice get in trouble when he dribbled too deep and didn't have his legs under him, but for the most part he has taken a huge step forward from last year.

 

[northside100]

The minutes he got post P2K tourney showed he was significantly behind defensively and then offensively when teams had a little film on him. Defenses would target him in pick and roll and drive on him. If he would have been farther along defensively and offensively he would have played more last year.

I am not counting the Euro trip in evaluations for is defense. Maybe his body is back to pre-injury level and his mind has caught onto the scheme more. If so great! I hope he takes time at the 3 because I think his ceiling is higher than Morton's. But until I see it during the reg season, he is goes in the bad category for defense. My rating is on past performance not future potential.

So eye test 😀 I agree, I would not count him as a defensive asset until he shows it in the regular season. He may be great but we really don’t know.

 

[BoilerNGold013]

I'm not going to make a prediction in how many minutes Brian gets. However, at least for me...it is very easy to see he moves much better than last year and has added some strength. Someone said he had a "weird" shot and yes there isn't a lot of lift in the ball (more push), but he may still have a decent percentage. What I think may be Brian's best strength that I haven't seen anyone mention is that he is pretty cerebral in his play generally. He has some length and can handle the ball and make good decisions and typically plays within his self. I've seen him once or twice get in trouble when he dribbled too deep and didn't have his legs under him, but for the most part he has taken a huge step forward from last year.

His 3 pt shot looked slow to get off last year which is a concern to me. The knee has nothing to do with his release speed or arm mechanics directly. However, it may not matter if he will just be a spot up shooter instead of off the bounce. As long as he can hit the kick out 3pt from edey at a high clip thats really all that is expected on offense.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Morton will most likely start to begin the season. Hopefully he only plays max 10 mins/game.

Not sure why you have unknowns for Jones. He has played college ball for 4 yrs. His 3 pt avg has been up and down. Low assist numbers, a shoot first guard. Info is on the web if you care to do some research. Jones will primarily be back up at 1.

Waddell, should not play much. Has a weird shot. Athleticism, when?

Heide has not played a second of college ball, everything is unknown. Waddell is almost the same, only played scrub mins.

By mid-season, Colvin could be the starter at 3.

I noticed Waddell's shot in the background of an ad featuring another player. It was so odd it stood out in the background. I can see Colvin being the starter. We'll know more in January.

 

[tjreese]

His 3 pt shot looked slow to get off last year which is a concern to me. The knee has nothing to do with his release speed or arm mechanics directly. However, it may not matter if he will just be a spot up shooter instead of off the bounce. As long as he can hit the kick out 3pt from edey at a high clip thats really all that is expected on offense.

Actually it does matter, because "if" he shoots well, there will be hard closeouts forcing him to drive...which he may do fine. He has a bit of a push shot, with not a lot of leg in his shot or lift of the ball before thrusting. I only saw him in one or two games in high school and so I don't have a good recollection of then, but it did seem like his shot was similar in high school. That said the knees do in fact hurt the shot for most shooters...maybe all I just can't think of one that it didn't matter. If you listen to the shot doctor Ernie Hobby he will start with the grip and move to the legs. His famous line is "No stance, no chance". If you listen to Dick Baumgartner (the guy that put the hand on the ball", he too will start with the grip and work to the legs emphasizing the 1-2 stop and pushing off the floor. None of this is to suggest that a player jump as high as possible and shoot the ball, but the legs are important. Even in FTs where a player doesn't jump, he must bend his knee.

If Brian gets major minutes, and he is going to get some minutes, I doubt it is due to his outside shot. It will be his versatility to do a lot of things and his cerebral ability on the court

 

[BoilerNGold013]

Actually it does matter, because "if" he shoots well, there will be hard closeouts forcing him to drive...which he may do fine. He has a bit of a push shot, with not a lot of leg in his shot or lift of the ball before thrusting. I only saw him in one or two games in high school and so I don't have a good recollection of then, but it did seem like his shot was similar in high school. That said the knees do in fact hurt the shot for most shooters...maybe all I just can't think of one that it didn't matter. If you listen to the shot doctor Ernie Hobby he will start with the grip and move to the legs. His famous line is "No stance, no chance". If you listen to Dick Baumgartner (the guy that put the hand on the ball", he too will start with the grip and work to the legs emphasizing the 1-2 stop and pushing off the floor. None of this is to suggest that a player jump as high as possible and shoot the ball, but the legs are important. Even in FTs where a player doesn't jump, he must bend his knee.

If Brian gets major minutes, and he is going to get some minutes, I doubt it is due to his outside shot. It will be his versatility to do a lot of things and his cerebral ability on the court

My point is that his overall mechanics for shooting looks flawed which is a separate issue from injury. His legs don't affect his arm motion and release speed. His mechanics are strange for his arms and upper body. I realized that there are multiple ways to shoot a basketball but some are of course more effective than others especially when you compete against D1 level athletes that are longer and jump fast/higher than people in high school or at the co-rec. I remember Anthony Johnson really struggled his time at Purdue shooting 3's because his release was too slow for high level D1 ball.

I agree though that if the legs are not functioning well the overall shot will negatively be affected. Same thing when my back hurts while playing golf. My swing wont be as fluid and I will compensate with other parts of my body not normally utilized. Any injury within the body system can impact overall performance.

 

[Thadoc1]

My point is that his overall mechanics for shooting looks flawed which is a separate issue from injury. His legs don't affect his arm motion and release speed. His mechanics are strange for his arms and upper body. I realized that there are multiple ways to shoot a basketball but some are of course more effective than others especially when you compete against D1 level athletes that are longer and jump fast/higher than people in high school or at the co-rec. I remember Anthony Johnson really struggled his time at Purdue shooting 3's because his release was too slow for high level D1 ball.

I agree though that if the legs are not functioning well the overall shot will negatively be affected. Same thing when my back hurts while playing golf. My swing wont be as fluid and I will compensate with other parts of my body not normally utilized. Any injury within the body system can impact overall performance.

Waddell is 6'8....a low shot for him is higher than most....

 

[tjreese]

Waddell is 6'8....a low shot for him is higher than most....

FWIW, I was amazed that John Shurna could get his shots off with such a low release, but he understood the distance he needed and could drive the ball if they got too close. BTW, whoever plays a lot at the 3 and 4 I hope one or both positions has a "late" player improvement for the tourney where there isn't a lot of scouting on the player(s) and he or they get hot in the tourney.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

Sure. But we have better players this year. TKR has taken a jump at the 4, Heide is more athletic for the 3 and I’d I’d say Furst and gilly are a wash. Not saying he won’t play but his minutes may diminish as the year goes on

You THINK TKR has taken a jump. (I do too), not yet proven against quality opponents. Even if he is, he may not mesh well with Zack. Or be more valuable as the main scorer on a 2nd squad. Heide will not affect Gillis minutes in any way. I love Caleb and hope he has a big year. He hasn't displaced Gillis from the rotation EITHER.
Just grasp that Gilly IS a quality option and he will play.
For 4 years he's brought unique and needed talents and mind set of toughness to this team that DESPERATELY needed it (remember when it was Trevion and NO help up front?).
Not gonna stop now.

 

[Schmedly_Whiplash]

If Purdue runs more, they mitigate the advantage that makes this team a top 5 team instead of a top 25 team.....Edey.

if purdue runs MORE, not runs all the time.
Zack can stay in the backcourt and cop a blow while an occasional jail break goes down.

 

[Mandeville LA]

Here is a thought. If a team is a pressing team outside of urgency play or quick 1 or 2 times a half that team has recruited athletic players. Some press is their go to press. No doubt that team that presses faces similar athletic teams that press and have an ability to play without a press as well. When the assistant coach on the opponents’ side sees a transition team coming in, the opponents coach may back off the press and play that team straight up and then come back with a press after a few possessions. However, it works out I think Purdue is in much better shape relative to transition just due Brian, Myles and Cam being available.

Cam is an athletic tweener that should be good in a press situation. Meaning he is the type of guy that has the skills to make a pressing team pay. Same with Colvin.

 

[tjreese]

Cam is an athletic tweener that should be good in a press situation. Meaning he is the type of guy that has the skills to make a pressing team pay. Same with Colvin.

Yes, I also included Brian in my previous list.

 

[tjreese]

Waddell is 6'8....a low shot for him is higher than most....

IN this pic although only from the side it looks much better