I gave my wife the limb saw when I climed (Clumb) out on this one ... but I predict Furst slowly sliding down the chart
Who plays the 3 and why?
- Thread starter proudopete
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He's got to be able to guard guards on switches....that's what our 4 does in our defense...if we're playing the same man to man d this year as in years past, tkr has got to be able to take on guards defensively...he's gotten quicker but nothing I've seen yet let's me believe he can guard the perimeter adequately...we can't have both our 4 and 5 in drop coverage....tkr is good around the bucket but he's got to be good on the perimeter scoring....will be interesting to see but I'm skeptical at this point....it's not about playing our best 5 players together, it's about playing the best guys around Zach Edey....I disagree with you on his game was the same as last year. Last year, he was uncoordinated…his body wasn’t doing what his mind was telling it to do. He basically wasn’t used to the speed of the game. In the scrimmage and in Europe, he did things he didn’t do at all last year. He brought the ball up full court after rebounds or after an inbound pass (did not do that last year). He was more composed and able to finish better around the rim than he did the previous year. He also was able to dribble from the top of the key pivot around the block, make a few fakes and then score. The game looks like it’s slowing down a bit for him and IMO if he only plays 10-15 min behind Zach and doesn’t play the 4 next to him, we are wasting his talent and I’d be afraid he’d leave elsewhere out of frustration for playing time.
Here’s an article on Painter talking about Edey and TKR:
Matt Painter's got a big idea to change Purdue's fortunes in March
Eschewing modern trends, Painter is tinkering with moving 6-foot-9 sophomore Trey Kaufman-Renn into the starting lineup for more offense.theathletic.com
Yeah, may very well happen. Kid has quickness, runs the court well and is able to defend but just hasn't improved his offensive game as much as his body allows.
Interviews from July or August with Trey and Paint from the other site (sorry, no link). Both said Caleb is backing up Zach and Trey is playing the 4.
That could change and in practical terms I’m not sure how much it matters as Trey and Caleb will both be out there most of the time when Zach is not.
Throw out Europe because Zach wasn’t there but agree that Trey mostly posted up in Europe as he did last year.
I could be wrong, I’m just going off of what they said.
Agree that defense will be the most challenging part and he has to be able to compliment Zach. Can he hit open threes at a 35% plus rate?
It depends. About half the teams we lost to last year didn't have another look to go to, their whole game was bully ball. NW, Rutgers, and I'm assuming FDU wouldn't have an answer to transition ball if we switched. Maryland and IU would have been able to adjust, but that's 3 more wins including the one that counted the most.
In EU he put down some mid rangers pretty effectively too. I do agree that the real question is can he guard a quicker player on switches. He seemed to move around a lot more fluidly in EU, but he gets stuck with a quick 2 I'm not confident he can stay with his man.
At the end of the day, I just hope Painter sets up at least one alternative style. We have the talent and skill to do it, and not doing so is a complete failure. Teams last year had a blueprint to beat us by the end of the season. If everyone was hitting shots it didn't matter and we won anyway, but relying on that isn't realistic. We need a completely different look that we can put on the floor so when teams go all in on our weakness (pressure / minimizing Zach) we can toss a completely different style out there. I like transition, but we probably have the players to do a dribble drive and dish style too.
I don't know your definition of "bully ball"? Is that war in the paint? I can assure you that other teams have a look that was not attempted against Purdue...just not something they believe they are good at doing enough to take a chance against Purdue. Matt has zone presses he favors over others even though you rarely see them. Historically it has been a 1-2-1-1. Matt compensates for those presses that invite you to hurry with the ball while backing up and letting you take the ball into the trap if rushed, but eating clock primarily, by having Purdue's PG pick up the ball farther down the court and try to eat some clock.
FDU was quicker than Purdue last year and that was a major difference in the game unfortunately. There was no Myles, Cam or Brian available, like this year. It was pretty much all up to Braden to play D, be a playmaker and work against a couple of people, with one very quick guard and another threatening the run&jump a lot of the game. Also, Purdue had Zach and you lose him when you run too much which can be really bad if you don't score and he finds himself going in the opposite direction of the ball. Purdue shot poorly and had trouble against FDU's quickness when defending and when on offense.
I think you see Purdue push it more this year...maybe even some quick downs? However, if Zach is in the game you can't forget him. Next year will be more up tempo I believe. We are witnessing a time where Matt still recruits skill, but he is now getting a better athlete as well and if you have enough thoroughbreds you can run them.
Here we go again. I just smile when I see this. Every year you pick out the one player who you think should never see the court again, but Painter "stubbornly" refuses to comply and plays him anyway.
As long as I've been on this forum, you do this dance of trying to pick out the one week link on the team . You focus all your posting energy on telling us how bad this one guy is, and how he should never be in the rotation. Morton now, before Eifert, Carrol, Cline, etc, etc.
We'll see. It's interesting that posters vary on some basic assumptions on who will play and at what position. You're saying Trey will play the 4, someone else is posting that Heide should play the 4 and we still have Gillis and Furst.
You may be right. Maybe Painter will try playing Trey and Edey together. To me its somewhat reminiscent of the situation we had a couple of years ago with Williams and Edey. It certainly wouldn't have been ideal to have those two guys playing together but I had hoped that Painter would have at least tried to design something offensively and defensively to have them in the game at least for limited minutes. Painter gave up on playing them together before the season started.
I may be in the minority but I haven't seen much that would indicate that Trey is more skilled away from the basket than Trevion was. I can't speak to their defensive because I've only seen Trey guard the 5, but he's doesn't appear to me to be much quicker or much more athletic than Trevion.
Like I said, I was all for Painter trying to play Trevion and Edey together, so I'd like to see what Trey and Edey can do together but on the other hand I have my doubts.
If Purdue runs more, they mitigate the advantage that makes this team a top 5 team instead of a top 25 team.....Edey.
Doubling down 👍 In all seriousness, it’s not worth debating for me, you’re entitled to your view and will put less value on his strengths and more value on his weaknesses than I will. I’ve said many times but will repeat that if he doesn’t shoot the ball better I hope someone plays better than he does and can reduce his minutes.
I loved Tre but he was undisciplined and didn’t play team defense with any level of consistency. Trey (with a y) is very different in that regard. I have no idea if it will work but MP has seen much more than you or me and he’s going to try it.
PS - those wanting Heide to play the 4 are going only off of hope. As far as I can tell Painter has no intention of playing him there this year and I have no idea where those minutes would come from.
I hope he does try. Why not. Trey is probably our second most talented big. Why not try it in November and December and see how it works out.
I wish he would have tried it with Trevion when the games didn't matter, My guess is that it must have been such a disaster in practice, he didn't believe it was even worth contemplating.
As to your Heide reference, I would agree. I think it's along the same lines as Jones starting at the 2 or 3. It aint gonna happen.
Well for Trey, it was his first full year adjusting to the speed of the game. He looked much more coordinated and the game seemed to have slowed down from the limited action I have seen of him. I would expect the same jump from him that we expect Fletcher and Braden to make from Frosh to soph year.
IMO, I hope Heide mostly plays the 3. I think he may play the 4 only if we go “small” or in a pinch. It’d be great to have the 3 be a threat on offense and I think him and Waddell can do that. However, it is to be seen if they can guard at this level, so we will have to see.
Well in 200 possessions last year with TKR and Edey, Purdue avg 1.14 points per possession and only gave up 0.86 PPP. Downside is that we shot just 26.7% from 3, but did grab 40% of rebounds and also shot 62.5% inside the arc. During some of those possessions there was a good hi - low action with TKR and Edey. If TKR can be a threat from shooting outside it would help Zach out even more since TKRs man couldn’t sag off and double Edey.
In regards to edey and Williams playing together…I think it’s tough to compare now because Zach was nowhere near what he is now and is so much more improved than 2 years ago. I also think it’s tough to compare TKR who has played one full year of D1 to Williams who had played 4 full years of D1.
I know Painter has said he wants to get TKR out there more and IMO, I think TKR is pretty talented, so I hope he plays more than just as edeys backup. I think he can shoot it from the outside better than Williams, but we will see what happens.
So my prediction is Heide is not gonna see any significant if any time at the 4! I also don’t think we’ll see Jones playing many if any minutes at the 3! He’s 6’1” and has more to offer at both 1 & 2, whether that’s in relief or the unlikelihood of starting minutes. We have 3 or 4 other hopefully capable players in the mix for minutes at both the 3 & 4 spots .
Maybe we can go 3 guards and use a combo of smith, Jones, Loyer and Colvin some of the time…so it won’t matter who the 3 is.
I was referencing having a different look when teams are playing aggressive defense and daring the refs to call fouls. You may be right on FDU, it was more that they were very quick and we couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. But NW and Rutgers that was their game. They played that way against everyone. The two ways you beat a press/overly aggressive D are hitting open shots, and transition points. We were atrocious at transition, and hit or miss at shooting.
You are right about transition likely not working with Edey in the game. That's why I was talking about having a entire 2nd unit designed around running. Put our fastest, most athletic guys on the floor for 5 minutes and let them run. Even if the other team has a counter it should net us some quick points while they adjust, at which point we can switch back. We have the bodies this year to have 2 completely different looks that will make game planning us much more difficult than last year where we played exactly the same game all the time.
Not if we do it in spurts to throw off opposing teams entire defensive scheme. Zach has got to rest anyways, why not do it while also throwing the other team off?
Agree with this, I don’t understand why pushing the tempo is a bad thing with Zach in the game. Zach throws the outlet, if you get a quick easy basket great, if not you pull back and set up the offense around Zach. Getting out quickly doesn’t mean you have to force a quick shot IMO.
I don't know. I'm not sure Purdue will be as athletic as some on here hope they will be. You could field a team of five athletic guys but unfortunately, they aren't our five best basketball players.
Smith, Colvin, Jones, Heide and Furst would probably be our most athletic line-up but I'm not sure they are anymore, athletic than half the teams in the B1G and I certainly don't believe that group gives us the best chance of winning. The remaining 5 or 6 guys are average or below average athletically compared to the athletes you'd see on other elite teams.
You forgot IT. He was a favorite of mine. Cline was never on my list.Here we go again. I just smile when I see this. Every year you pick out the one player who you think should never see the court again, but Painter "stubbornly" refuses to comply and plays him anyway.
As long as I've been on this forum, you do this dance of trying to pick out the one week link on the team . You focus all your posting energy on telling us how bad this one guy is, and how he should never be in the rotation. Morton now, before Eifert, Carrol, Cline, etc, etc.
Unfortunately, I think his weaknesses far outweigh his strengths. It is what it is. I'm sure he's a nice kid, works hard, good teammate, etc., his skill level just is just more aligned with a lower level.
Yeah, none of us know if or how this works, but we shall soon have a feel
When things were going really well last year, Furst and TKR looked dynamic together. Then faded out for reasons unknown. Edey/Gillis - Furst/TKR seems like the best combinations to me, but I am anxious to see if TKR can play with Zack and make it work.
I know you like him just because he has a P on his uni, but try to be somewhat objective. You've seen him play for 3 years now. And it could be argued that he's actually regressed in production.
I don't wish him any ill will, just wish he didn't get much PT.
I'd argue that you're taking a simplistic view of 'production'. You're right in that I care very little about a player's individual statistics relative to their impact on team play and production. Maybe it's out there, but even shooting as poorly as he did I've not seen any data indicating that Purdue was worse on offense or defense when Ethan was on the floor and Purdue was elite offensively when the guys who are supposed to be shooters were making shots.
If he's shooting in the mid to high 30's from three I'd argue that he's as good as any glue guy we've had, and there were a number of those guys on the team that was a missed FT from the FF. Yes, I like him in part because he's by all accounts a great teammate who busts his butt, but I think at the core is the fact that you and I have a different view as to what is required for teams to play winning basketball.
I think we need to invite him to have a beer with us so we can talk this out about Morton..although it may be us 2 vs you 😂
I share the hope that someone can come in and play better than Morton did last year. I'd probably not be fun to have a conversation with if the view is 'Morton sucks and anyone new has to be better than him'
I guess my issue with more with Painter than with Morton. The word on Morton in HS was that the competition he faced was woeful and he dominated because there just wasn't anyone good enough to push him.
Then, he gets into AAU games and he really struggles against better athletes, the type he'll face at the P5 level. In addition, there were a lot of questions around his shooting ability.
I disagree that he works any harder than any other player. Maybe his lack of athleticism makes it look like he's working harder, but I think all these guys put out the effort.
That’s complete revisionist history aside from the fact that his shooting % in AAU was a red flag. I don’t recall seeing one report of Morton struggling against athletic players in AAU. He didn’t put up big stats but he played with a bunch of high-volume guys who are looking to get theirs. High school basketball in the Pittsburgh area is not woeful, but agree that his elite scoring in high school was the product of being physically better than the competition. He was not recruited to Purdue for his scoring.
No one said that he works harder than the other guys on the team at Purdue. It seems that you want a roster full of guys who are scorers first. Again I disagree with your view of what it takes to play winning basketball
No revisionist at all. If you read the recruiting info, you'll see it in there that he struggled against the athletes he faced in AAU.
Yeh, if I had my choice, I'll take a scorer over a defender 10 times out of 10, especially a guy at the guard position. But if you're guard is a liability on offense, then I think there's something wrong with your offensive philosophy.
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