Uh, the point man, currently unknown, is the whistleblower. This isn't a story started by Schiff.
What was promised and to whom?
- Thread starter Bethboilerfan
- Start date
Why is Hillary unscathed ??
Because of the profound reluctance on the part of Bob Barr & the DOJ to initiate and undertake the imperative investigations ??
Where does Fusion GPS and the FISA warrant applications stand with regard to charges appropriately brought by the DOJ, here.
Is anyone holding their breath ?
Jeff Sessions sure wasn't.
"whistleblower" . This story has more holes than the Iraqi Navy..
an un-elected person from an ABC organization is listening to Trump's convo w/ foreign leader and is "bothered" by a promise . Now was he told to listen in or was he doing this in secret? It is not their job to second guess the duly elected President of the USA (look up Article II in the constitution.). Like it or not he has sweeping power's to deal w/ foreign nations.
As far as "urgent concern", the DNI wrote a letter stating the complaint did not meet the ICWPA definition because it involved conduct “from someone outside the intel community and did not relate to intelligence activity”. DNI refused to forward the complaint to congress... by law this "whistleblower" has no legitimate complaint against the President.
But just for shiggles:
just remember the news is fake, but the leaks are real
We don't know who this person works for or where he got the information."whistleblower" . This story has more holes than the Iraqi Navy..
an un-elected person from an ABC organization is listening to Trump's convo w/ foreign leader and is "bothered" by a promise . Now was he told to listen in or was he doing this in secret? It is not their job to second guess the duly elected President of the USA (look up Article II in the constitution.). Like it or not he has sweeping power's to deal w/ foreign nations.
As far as "urgent concern", the DNI wrote a letter stating the complaint did not meet the ICWPA definition because it involved conduct “from someone outside the intel community and did not relate to intelligence activity”. DNI refused to forward the complaint to congress... by law this "whistleblower" has no legitimate complaint against the President.
But just for shiggles:
just remember the news is fake, but the leaks are real
The ICIG determined it was credible and of urgent concern. The DNI took a week longer than required by the act to inform Congress. The statute gives the responsibility to make the decision to the IGIC. The statute also says the DNI "shall" report to Congress. He has no discretion. Nor does the AG have any statutory role either.
There is only one way the DNI can refuse to report to Congress. An order from the president.
You know, believing only what Trump tells you to believe makes you nothing more than a damn fool.
This is a very interesting read:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/world/europe/ukraine-trump-zelensky.html
It is revealing that Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine and released it after three Congressional committees began to investigate the report.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/world/europe/ukraine-trump-zelensky.html
It is revealing that Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine and released it after three Congressional committees began to investigate the report.
Just for clarification, who, in your opinion, has EVER had a " legitimate complaint against the President ??"whistleblower" . This story has more holes than the Iraqi Navy..
an un-elected person from an ABC organization is listening to Trump's convo w/ foreign leader and is "bothered" by a promise . Now was he told to listen in or was he doing this in secret? It is not their job to second guess the duly elected President of the USA (look up Article II in the constitution.). Like it or not he has sweeping power's to deal w/ foreign nations.
As far as "urgent concern", the DNI wrote a letter stating the complaint did not meet the ICWPA definition because it involved conduct “from someone outside the intel community and did not relate to intelligence activity”. DNI refused to forward the complaint to congress... by law this "whistleblower" has no legitimate complaint against the Presiden
an un-elected person from an ABC organization is listening to Trump's convo w/ foreign leader and is "bothered" by a promise . Now was he told to listen in or was he doing this in secret? It is not their job to second guess the duly elected President of the USA (look up Article II in the constitution.). Like it or not he has sweeping power's to deal w/ foreign nations.
As far as "urgent concern", the DNI wrote a letter stating the complaint did not meet the ICWPA definition because it involved conduct “from someone outside the intel community and did not relate to intelligence activity”. DNI refused to forward the complaint to congress... by law this "whistleblower" has no legitimate complaint against the President.
But just for shiggles:
just remember the news is fake, but the leaks are real
Right. That is the entire point. When that is termed allowed, legal(?), justified(?), non-issue, etc. do not expect politics to be clean run game anymore. Going to have both sides pushing limits of what they can get away with.
? as the IG investigations may not agree.
Well, I did not really get by the first sentence. Anti-Trump does not mean liberal. Heck, I do not consider trump a conservative as many do not. So anti-Trump does not get categorized to anti-liberal. There is just a large demographic out there, that no matter what he does, critiques it. Regardless if it something they agree with.
You think there is more to find on interference in the last election? Then call Trump and tell him to launch an official investigation. It was THREE YEARS ago. That's in caps because in that time there has been no investigation into Ukraine by this admin. Why is that? Seems like a long time for something that seems so obvious. As is with most things Trump he loves to throw out bait for people like you but never follows up with actual facts. In short, launch an investigation if you think something is there or STFU.
Sure I think there is more interference. Like I have said from the get go, this is nothing new. Been going on for decades. Oh and when Trump wanted certain things investigated, it was the old he was weaponizing the DoJ claim. Another example of projection at its finest from the left. It was the previous admin that did that. So now the importance of getting to the bottom of election interference which is what you and others preached was the goal on here is now bait? LOL-you literally walk right into this. There is actual supposed video of Ukraine officials wanting to help HC. But, hey, bait or something. Does not fit your narrative, actual evidence against the opposite of what MSM led people to believe- uh uh BAIT!
And no, it's not obvious HC hired a lot of people overseas to "do things". Her lawyer hired Fusion who hired Steele. That's what we know.
Oh, of course she had no idea. My bad. Trump did not know Guiliani was in the Ukraine either.
I especially likw how you minimize Trump's actions with your "I'm not a fan of" but Hillary or "It's not a good look" but Biden.
Trump is blurring the lines between his personal need for revenge and US foreign policy by using his personal attorney to dig for dirt on a political opponent and using a BS election argument as cover......when he hasn't even had an official investigation......even using the state department to help Rudy with his travel. That's not being "railroaded". That's exceeding his constitutional power for his own purposes. Whatever Hillary did or didn't do doesn't excuse it. Your argument seems to be that because you think Hillary did something wrong it magically becomes acceptable if Trump does it.
Oh sorry, I forgot that you said you weren't a fan of it.
Personally, would like nothing more than for a debate to be on said policies and stances and plans. That is my stance.
Unfortunately, I understand how the world works. People push envelopes. The nonsense around 2016 investigations has gone unpunished, the lunacy around the first year of Trump's admin went unpunished(you know lets invoke the 25th but we were just joking), and people expect the political atmosphere to not get worse. Ok. I mean, not sure what to say.
I get you do not like the Ukranian interference because they wanted to help Clinton. It blows apart the narrative That does not make it BS.
Never said what Hilary did or did not do did or did not excuse it. No idea why you wrote that.
Helping Ukrainian officials with their joint investigation into Paul Manafort's various illegalities with the Mueller Investigation hardly qualifies as "helping Hillary, in the true sense, does it ?? It was a by-product. And that ship has long sailed.Well, I did not really get by the first sentence. Anti-Trump does not mean liberal. Heck, I do not consider trump a conservative as many do not. So anti-Trump does not get categorized to anti-liberal. There is just a large demographic out there, that no matter what he does, critiques it. Regardless if it something they agree with.
You think there is more to find on interference in the last election? Then call Trump and tell him to launch an official investigation. It was THREE YEARS ago. That's in caps because in that time there has been no investigation into Ukraine by this admin. Why is that? Seems like a long time for something that seems so obvious. As is with most things Trump he loves to throw out bait for people like you but never follows up with actual facts. In short, launch an investigation if you think something is there or STFU.
Sure I think there is more interference. Like I have said from the get go, this is nothing new. Been going on for decades. Oh and when Trump wanted certain things investigated, it was the old he was weaponizing the DoJ claim. Another example of projection at its finest from the left. It was the previous admin that did that. So now the importance of getting to the bottom of election interference which is what you and others preached was the goal on here is now bait? LOL-you literally walk right into this. There is actual supposed video of Ukraine officials wanting to help HC. But, hey, bait or something. Does not fit your narrative, actual evidence against the opposite of what MSM led people to believe- uh uh BAIT!
And no, it's not obvious HC hired a lot of people overseas to "do things". Her lawyer hired Fusion who hired Steele. That's what we know.
Oh, of course she had no idea. My bad. Trump did not know Guiliani was in the Ukraine either.
I especially likw how you minimize Trump's actions with your "I'm not a fan of" but Hillary or "It's not a good look" but Biden.
Trump is blurring the lines between his personal need for revenge and US foreign policy by using his personal attorney to dig for dirt on a political opponent and using a BS election argument as cover......when he hasn't even had an official investigation......even using the state department to help Rudy with his travel. That's not being "railroaded". That's exceeding his constitutional power for his own purposes. Whatever Hillary did or didn't do doesn't excuse it. Your argument seems to be that because you think Hillary did something wrong it magically becomes acceptable if Trump does it.
Oh sorry, I forgot that you said you weren't a fan of it.
Personally, would like nothing more than for a debate to be on said policies and stances and plans. That is my stance.
Unfortunately, I understand how the world works. People push envelopes. The nonsense around 2016 investigations has gone unpunished, the lunacy around the first year of Trump's admin went unpunished(you know lets invoke the 25th but we were just joking), and people expect the political atmosphere to not get worse. Ok. I mean, not sure what to say.
I get you do not like the Ukranian interference because they wanted to help Clinton. It blows apart the narrative That does not make it BS.
Never said what Hilary did or did not do did or did not excuse it. No idea why you wrote that.
IDK if you recently learned what projection is but man you sure throw it around a lot.Well, I did not really get by the first sentence. Anti-Trump does not mean liberal. Heck, I do not consider trump a conservative as many do not. So anti-Trump does not get categorized to anti-liberal. There is just a large demographic out there, that no matter what he does, critiques it. Regardless if it something they agree with.
You think there is more to find on interference in the last election? Then call Trump and tell him to launch an official investigation. It was THREE YEARS ago. That's in caps because in that time there has been no investigation into Ukraine by this admin. Why is that? Seems like a long time for something that seems so obvious. As is with most things Trump he loves to throw out bait for people like you but never follows up with actual facts. In short, launch an investigation if you think something is there or STFU.
Sure I think there is more interference. Like I have said from the get go, this is nothing new. Been going on for decades. Oh and when Trump wanted certain things investigated, it was the old he was weaponizing the DoJ claim. Another example of projection at its finest from the left. It was the previous admin that did that. So now the importance of getting to the bottom of election interference which is what you and others preached was the goal on here is now bait? LOL-you literally walk right into this. There is actual supposed video of Ukraine officials wanting to help HC. But, hey, bait or something. Does not fit your narrative, actual evidence against the opposite of what MSM led people to believe- uh uh BAIT!
And no, it's not obvious HC hired a lot of people overseas to "do things". Her lawyer hired Fusion who hired Steele. That's what we know.
Oh, of course she had no idea. My bad. Trump did not know Guiliani was in the Ukraine either.
I especially likw how you minimize Trump's actions with your "I'm not a fan of" but Hillary or "It's not a good look" but Biden.
Trump is blurring the lines between his personal need for revenge and US foreign policy by using his personal attorney to dig for dirt on a political opponent and using a BS election argument as cover......when he hasn't even had an official investigation......even using the state department to help Rudy with his travel. That's not being "railroaded". That's exceeding his constitutional power for his own purposes. Whatever Hillary did or didn't do doesn't excuse it. Your argument seems to be that because you think Hillary did something wrong it magically becomes acceptable if Trump does it.
Oh sorry, I forgot that you said you weren't a fan of it.
Personally, would like nothing more than for a debate to be on said policies and stances and plans. That is my stance.
Unfortunately, I understand how the world works. People push envelopes. The nonsense around 2016 investigations has gone unpunished, the lunacy around the first year of Trump's admin went unpunished(you know lets invoke the 25th but we were just joking), and people expect the political atmosphere to not get worse. Ok. I mean, not sure what to say.
I get you do not like the Ukranian interference because they wanted to help Clinton. It blows apart the narrative That does not make it BS.
Never said what Hilary did or did not do did or did not excuse it. No idea why you wrote that.
I think you and Trump may be the only people in America obsessed with Ukrainian interference in the election. You're laughing like there's some gotcha moment here.......you obviously failed to read what I said. I'll repeat. "Launch an investigation if you think something is there or STFU." I've got no problem with that. It seems Trump does.......... as there has been zero movement on that issue for three years. It now consists of his personal lawyer........or, as you called him, the Trump administration, beating the bushes for dirt on Biden and calling it an election investigation.
I'm not gonna debate what HC did or didn't do with you. You tried to use Trump's accusations as a basis for her doing something in Ukraine. Accusations based on accusations don't equal facts. Besides, she didn't do anything illegal.......the same argument you Trumpers use when Trump is caught destroying the established norms and practices of the presidency. You know, like accepting help from a foreign government in an election and not telling the FBI about it. As long as you don't talk about it with each other, it's all good.
Trump is the one pushing the envelope in domestic and foreign policy. He's setting the new standard. He has been given a free hand by a pub senate that is more worried about re-election that governing. You seem more than willing to accept the new norm. It won't last.......and those like you that stand by and accept it and make excuses for him will be exposed when you can no longer blame the media or the dems for his actions.
Good lord, no one knows yet who the whistle blowers is, or what his/her concerns were but the pro Trump crowd, along with the, "I didn't vote for Trump but..." crowd are already on here are defending Trump. I get the brain washing, like Trump said today, the person is partisan, but he doesn't know who the person is, and these schmucks respond like Pavlov trained them.
What a country. They gave us a Republic, it looks like 35% of the population has determined to chuck it.
People need to understand it is time to stop engaging this inanity, it gives their ridiculousness oxygen.
What a country. They gave us a Republic, it looks like 35% of the population has determined to chuck it.
People need to understand it is time to stop engaging this inanity, it gives their ridiculousness oxygen.
In all candor, I can understand why Pres. Trump supporters are not abandoning him, and I really have no problem with that.
However, I simply do not understand the utter subservience by you and your continued view that everything that appears remotely adverse to him is simply "fake news."
Do you supporters really have no concern about all that appears? Do you actually accept that everything is always simply made up?
However, I simply do not understand the utter subservience by you and your continued view that everything that appears remotely adverse to him is simply "fake news."
Do you supporters really have no concern about all that appears? Do you actually accept that everything is always simply made up?
That's the point I'm trying to make, that CNN & MSNBC are making all sorts of wild guesses about the allegations without any knowledge of what they are. Has the IG said that the allegations are credible or is he just following the proper procedures, when any allegation is made, i.e. report to Congress first and then investigate. The whole Russian Collusion debacle was based on media hacks speculating on all sorts of outlandish scenarios, while saying "if these allegations are true".
IDK if you recently learned what projection is but man you sure throw it around a lot.I think you and Trump may be the only people in America obsessed with Ukrainian interference in the election.
Not at all. Heck you were one of the main people that wanted foreign election interference investigated and stopped. All of a sudden it does not fit the narrative and it is no big deal. Anyway, psyche background, I just point it out when I see it. And it comes up/surfaces when discussing politics a lot.
You're laughing like there's some gotcha moment here
LOL-projection. If anyone, the posts laughing at the alleged gotcha moment would be the people that think Trump definitely did wrong with the promise statement and Guliani. Me, I just want the entire deal looked at from start to end. It really seems it comes across as people wanted Russia/Collusion/Obstruction investigated but everything else was outside Mueller's scope.
It now consists of his personal lawyer........or, as you called him, the Trump administration, beating the bushes for dirt on Biden and calling it an election investigation.
I said that where?
I'm not gonna debate what HC did or didn't do with you. You tried to use Trump's accusations as a basis for her doing something in Ukraine. Accusations based on accusations don't equal facts.
Two things-it is not Trump's accusations. It is on tape. It was linked.
"Accusations based on accusations do not equal facts" Now you can put away conspiracy/collusion/obstruction nonsense against Trump.
Trump is the one pushing the envelope in domestic and foreign policy. He's setting the new standard. He has been given a free hand by a pub senate that is more worried about re-election that governing. You seem more than willing to accept the new norm. It won't last.......and those like you that stand by and accept it and make excuses for him will be exposed when you can no longer blame the media or the dems for his actions.
Projection. Again. I have stated what I would like to see. I just understand the reality that this type of politics picked up a lot in the last 10 years. Want it to stop? Start prosecuting the big names behind it, stop granting immunity without testifying, make it easier for journalists to be sued for libel, start prosecuting leaks, start prosecuting intentional mishandling of classified material etc etc
I do not disagree with your first few phrases but the conclusion is off. It is more defending Trump because nobody knows, and there is nothing wrong with him making promises to a foreign country. Also, would be nothing wrong with him making promises to foreign country for removal of officials that wanted to/or did help a politician in the 2016 election. You know, trying to get rid of the foreign intervention in election deal.
Please read this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/world/europe/ukraine-trump-zelensky.html
If you read the Times article, you know that what Ukrainian officials are reporting goes beyond “making promises” to a foreign country. Also, it is not relevant that Hilary Clinton did or did not do something. Clinton is not the President and can not withhold promised aid as a way of threatening another country in order to obtain information on a US.citizen of another party. At this point, Joe Biden is not the nominee. He holds no position in the government. He is a private citizen of the United States. What the Ukrainian government is reporting is extremely disturbing if you care about the future of our country.
Projection is an UNCONSCIOUS Freudian defense mechanism to defend the ego. I can not see that what people post on this board fits the Freudian definition. And it is psych not psyche which has a different meaning.
Once again we've reached that point in the conversation where you just ignore what doesn't fit your narrative and keep repeating the same shit.
For the 4th time, I've got no problem with an investigation into HC/Ukraine if it's done by the government, not by Rudy. You seem to think they are one and the same, as evidenced by your statement......"This should be applauded that the Trump Admin is going after a country that interfered or possibly interfered." That's WHERE you said it. To you, Rudy and the Trump admin are the same thing. They're not, there is no official investigation, there will not be one because there's nothing there. It's simply an excuse for Rudy to look into Biden.
There's no tape of Hillary and Ukraine.
Want it to stop? One of your answers is to sue the press. Welcome to Trumplandia.
Edit. Beth just used you, bad.
Bbf, you could have a MICROCHIP implanted in 97's pre-frontal cortex and there would be no discernible change in the mechanisms that dominate his political thinking.
Link him to 2,500 sites for access to truth/reality ? Brick wall.
The word "projection" is now hard-wired into his consciousness. Good luck trying to modify his understanding and use of the word.
True, but that is not what it is in its definition. It involves one placing their own, unwanted thoughts/feelings, that are often angry or negative qualities by nature on others.
It is very easy to pick up on here, especially from a few posters. Ex-When they start telling you what you think when it is obvious it is how they think and process information, telling one what not to be think/be tempted by when there is no basis for it except from themselves
I think possibly we may have a break through. Reread your last few sentences. Now, why do you suddenly care about private citizen's privacy only now?
Well, if you reread my posts, you will see that I say, time and again, politicians going overseas should be done on behalf of state or presidents Admin. I copied and pasted it here:
Personally, I do not think anybody not elected to and in office, and under the SoS or Presdent's Admin, really has any business meeting with other world leaders one on one. Especially if they are a former politician, still connected, and from a different political party that has different views on relationship with said country. Simply put, if one did not win the WH, stay out.
So, yeah, thanks for admitting I never said that about Rudy G. Am I ok with Trump wanting Ukranian officials ousted and outted that helped HC? Definitely. And I thought you, Boilerbeth, doubleyous, all would be too. Mainly because you among others have been complaining about foreign election interference for the last few years. Now, not a big deal for whatever reason(s). Got it.
Sure that was one of the many answers I provided.. I see why you do not like it though. If this sticks, it would be the first allegation that held water the last few years.
I understand it very well. Thanks. My political thinking and who I have voted for? I go from left center, short of being progressive, to the right.
you could have a MICROCHIP implanted in 97's pre-frontal cortex and there would be no discernible change in the mechanisms that dominate his political thinking.
LOL, right there, you are describing yourself, and displacing those qualities on me. Know what that is called? Need a hint?
Game. Set. Match.
Have to love the cult of 6 or 8 whatever that live here to demean anyone that dare disagree with them. 3 2 1 DoubleU nasty comment just waiting for it
"Am I ok with Trump wanting Ukranian officials ousted and outted that helped HC? Definitely. And I thought you, Boilerbeth, doubleyous, all would be too. Mainly because you among others have been complaining about foreign election interference for the last few years."
THERE IS NO PROOF, NOT EVEN AN OFFICIAL INVESTIGATION OF Ukrainian interference by this administration. You got it? You keep repeating it like it's fact. Can you actually acknowledge that you read this? I guess you keep repeating it to convince yourself.
And......."For the 4th time, I've got no problem with an investigation into HC/Ukraine if it's done by the government, not by Rudy. So when you keep repeating that I'm somehow against an investigation.....you're wrong, again.
If you're against what Rudy is doing........and the resulting benefit to Trump.......why do you not take it one step further? Can you not admit to the conflict of interest, the abuse of power, the opportunities for more election interference, the slippery slope of governmental investigation into a private citizen with no due process? You are concerned about election interference from years ago that has no basis in fact...........but the clear and present danger Trump is poses only gets a "I'm not crazy about".
You equated Rudy with the Trump admin.......you are happy the admin is finally looking into Ukraine. They're not. Rudy is. There is not admission on my part, only your refusal to admit what you posted. Done here.
BB6, you've led 97 to water any number of times. Can't conceive of a better final summation in order for drinking to take place.
Illegal in 50 states to try and beat the truth into somebody.
Keep up the good work.
Great! so you and your squad are signing off so people wanting to actually discuss things can for the rest of the night? Thats great take a well deserved break from your bullying dilligence . It must be tough to be on call 24/7 to just be an ass all day long!
This exactly what you and your cult don't get . In reality of the world you are a huge minority and you piss people off and they will not vote for you and your blind obsequious followers who have no real understanding of the world. You and your ilk prove it everyday in a microcosm of the voter base. REAL PEOPLE DON'T LIKE YOU!!! You and yours are aloof, constantly condescending of anyone that doesn't fall exactly in line with how your warped mind thinks. I applaud you ! People like you do more than any campaign boosters to Trumps election in 2020 that you can ever realize!
Good to know that there are good Americans out there like Bob and Ws and everyone on this board who tell it like it is. Keep up the good work everyone!
Tell what like it is? Did they talk about Obama and his trail of scandal?How many suicides surround the Clinton's? The blindness here is so fun to watch but do carry on if it makes you feel good! Good work all of you! Its a blessing to see how really blind you all are by your hatred !
I would just feel better if we had a Christian president in there, like we did the 16 years prior to this one.
