What is the Democrats Obsession With Showing Kids Transvestite Drag Shows?

[Droid12345]

Sounds like you have some reading to do.

I'd rather you answer my questions rather than try to duck out of it, because the Bible isn't going to convince me of anything on its own, it gets far too many things wrong and contains too many contradictions for me to take it at face value. Also, it's just a book written by (sometimes anonymous) people 2000+ years ago whose claims largely cannot be verified. So, why should reading it convince me of anything?

Doesn't the Bible command you to:

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have."

- 1 Peter 3:15

If you can't or won't answer questions of someone who is trying to understand, are you not avoiding this Biblical responsibility?

 

[Boiler Buck]

I'd rather you answer my questions rather than try to duck out of it, because the Bible isn't going to convince me of anything on its own, it gets far too many things wrong and contains too many contradictions for me to take it at face value. Doesn't the Bible command you to:

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have."

- 1 Peter 3:15

If you can't or won't answer questions of someone who is trying to understand, are you not avoiding this Biblical responsibility?

Sounds like you are an angry young person with not much peace in you life. You can find peace in Christ if you will give him a chance.

As to the reason for my hope...my hope is in Jesus Christ. You can find Him too if you open your closed heart to His word. Best of luck to you.

 

[Droid12345]

Sounds like you are an angry young person with not much peace in you life. You can find peace in Christ if you will give him a chance.

I see, so you can't answer questions with anything reasonable so you have to fall back on making assumptions about me.

As to the reason for my hope...my hope is in Jesus Christ. You can find Him too if you open your closed heart to His word. Best of luck to you.

This does not answer my question. I'm interested in WHY you have hope in Jesus Christ and, by extension, why I should. It's not been demonstrated conclusively that he even ever existed, let alone that he was divine, was resurrected, etc. Reading the Bible isn't going to get me there, because its merely a collection of claims without evidence. I'm trying to understand why I should accept the claims of the Bible given its problematic nature.

I'm also trying to understand how it can be possible that somehow the New Testament cancels out the Old, but that the Old is still used in the religion and Christians regularly appeal to it. For instance, I've been told before that the whole slavery thing doesn't matter because its in the Old Testament -- which also disregards the fact that the New Testament never says slavery is bad, correcting the Old. But, so is the statement that homosexuality is an abomination (back to the original subject of the thread), and Christians have no problem appealing to that verse. The 10 commandments is in the Old Testament, and Christians have no problem appealing to that.

So, here's a simpler question. Is ALL of the Bible true or just some of it?

 

[BSIT]

I see, so you can't answer questions with anything reasonable so you have to fall back on making assumptions about me.

This does not answer my question. I'm interested in WHY you have hope in Jesus Christ and, by extension, why I should. It's not been demonstrated conclusively that he even ever existed, let alone that he was divine, was resurrected, etc. Reading the Bible isn't going to get me there, because its merely a collection of claims without evidence. I'm trying to understand why I should accept the claims of the Bible given its problematic nature.

I'm also trying to understand how it can be possible that somehow the New Testament cancels out the Old, but that the Old is still used in the religion and Christians regularly appeal to it. For instance, I've been told before that the whole slavery thing doesn't matter because its in the Old Testament -- which also disregards the fact that the New Testament never says slavery is bad, correcting the Old. But, so is the statement that homosexuality is an abomination (back to the original subject of the thread), and Christians have no problem appealing to that verse. The 10 commandments is in the Old Testament, and Christians have no problem appealing to that.

So, here's a simpler question. Is ALL of the Bible true or just some of it?

You ask some good questions. I’d highly recommend The Case for Christ written by Lee Strobel. He was an atheist who is a highly educated writer who worked for The NY Times and Chicago Tribune. In this book he takes an objective investigation and addresses some of your questions

The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus|Paperback

Is there credible proof that Jesus of Nazareth really is the Son of God? In The Case for Christ, Lee Strobel, former legal editor of the Chicago Tribune and New York Times bestselling author, retraces his own spiritual journey from atheism to faith and builds a...

www.barnesandnoble.com

 

[mdthornb]

Romans 1:24-32 Therefore God gave them up to vile impurity in the lusts of their hearts, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and serv | New American Standard Bible - NA

Therefore God gave them up to vile impurity in the lusts of their hearts, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for falsehood, and worshiped and serv

bible.com

That explains Paul's views, but what about God's?

 

[Droid12345]

You ask some good questions. I’d highly recommend The Case for Christ written by Lee Strobel. He was an atheist who is a highly educated writer who worked for The NY Times and Chicago Tribune. In this book he takes an objective investigation and addresses some of your questions

The Case for Christ: A Journalist's Personal Investigation of the Evidence for Jesus|Paperback

Is there credible proof that Jesus of Nazareth really is the Son of God? In The Case for Christ, Lee Strobel, former legal editor of the Chicago Tribune and New York Times bestselling author, retraces his own spiritual journey from atheism to faith and builds a...

www.barnesandnoble.com

I'm aware of Strobel's book, it would seem that it's full of typical apologetics that don't hold up to logical or scientific scrutiny, so I find it unlikely it would convince me of anything.

 

[BSIT]

I'm aware of Strobel's book, it would seem that it's full of typical apologetics that don't hold up to logical or scientific scrutiny, so I find it unlikely it would convince me of anything.

Did you read it? He is coming from the point of view as an atheist. His background is law so he takes a very methodical investigation to whether the claims of Christ written in the Bible are true.

 

[Droid12345]

Did you read it? He is coming from the point of view as an atheist. His background is law so he takes a very methodical investigation to whether the claims of Christ written in the Bible are true.

His credentials aren't relevant if his arguments, or those of the already-christians he interviewed are flawed. I've yet to hear a Christian apologetic that wasn't flawed in some way, and Lee Strobel's book is not new, so it seems likely I've heard most or all of them already. Reading the book won't provide me any new information.

To bring things back around, though, my initial question to Buck was how homosexual attraction can be both a natural consequence of our sinful nature AND an unnatural attraction. The concepts of "natural" and of "unnatural" are in direct contradiction with each other, so nothing can logically be both. It'd be like finding a married bachelor. I've still yet to receive a satisfactory answer to that question. So, whether or not there is a God isn't really relevant. I'm stipulating, for the sake of argument, that God DOES exist and trying to understand how he would allow homosexual attraction to emerge if it is "unnatural." If it is, in fact, natural, then it begs the question why God would've invented the concept in the first place, thereby dooming a certain percentage of people to eternal torment. If God thinks homosexual behavior is an abomination, that's fine, but why predispose a large number of individuals to engage in it? And what about people who have never been exposed to the Abrahamic religions who are gay? They don't even get the chance to learn that gay behavior is grounds for infinite torture. I've been told that God is just, but that doesn't sound like justice to me.

 

[Boiler Buck]

His credentials aren't relevant if his arguments, or those of the already-christians he interviewed are flawed. I've yet to hear a Christian apologetic that wasn't flawed in some way, and Lee Strobel's book is not new, so it seems likely I've heard most or all of them already. Reading the book won't provide me any new information.

To bring things back around, though, my initial question to Buck was how homosexual attraction can be both a natural consequence of our sinful nature AND an unnatural attraction. The concepts of "natural" and of "unnatural" are in direct contradiction with each other, so nothing can logically be both. It'd be like finding a married bachelor. I've still yet to receive a satisfactory answer to that question. So, whether or not there is a God isn't really relevant. I'm stipulating, for the sake of argument, that God DOES exist and trying to understand how he would allow homosexual attraction to emerge if it is "unnatural." If it is, in fact, natural, then it begs the question why God would've invented the concept in the first place, thereby dooming a certain percentage of people to eternal torment. If God thinks homosexual behavior is an abomination, that's fine, but why predispose a large number of individuals to engage in it? And what about people who have never been exposed to the Abrahamic religions who are gay? They don't even get the chance to learn that gay behavior is grounds for infinite torture. I've been told that God is just, but that doesn't sound like justice to me.

I go out to feed my cattle, and come back to find you have been busy on here. Overall, 2 suggestions were made you do not wish to try. That does not sound like someone who really wants answers to me....but wants to argue.

One of the things you said above though is a miss quote of me on natural and unnatural. Meaningless anyway....take out the word unnatural (that you are getting hung up on)from my quote and it means the same....here I will do it for you....

All are born with a sin nature. This sin nature results in people have different sin attraction tendencies.

I know alot of people are attracted to porn. Weirder still, some have attractions to little boys or little girls. Some are attracted to rage & violence. And yes some have attractions to the same sex. All are sin attractions. People do not have to give into these various sin attractions.

But then if a person CHOOSES to act on these attractions, it results in sin. Enough of these sins, and God turns us over to our sin.....as Romans above explains. So yes, these are choices people act on.

 

[Droid12345]

I go out to feed my cattle, and come back to find you have been busy on here. Overall, 2 suggestions were made you do not wish to try. That does not sound like someone who really wants answers to me....but wants to argue.

One suggestion was to read the Bible, but no one has convinced me that the Bible says anything reliable. I understand the Bible's claims, but don't see evidence for the truth of those claims. The second isa book of flawed Christian apologetics that I've been hearing for years. So, since I'm already aware of the Bible's claims and of the apologetics, that's why I'm asking you in hopes that you may be able to provide some new insight.

One of the things you said above though is a miss quote of me on natural and unnatural. Meaningless anyway....take out the word unnatural (that you are getting hung up on)from my quote and it means the same....here I will do it for you....

It's not a misquote, you said "All are born with a sin nature. This sin nature results in people have different unatural sin attraction tendencies." But, you're changing your statement now, so not really relevant.

All are born with a sin nature. This sin nature results in people have different sin attraction tendencies.

So homosexuality is not a choice, which was my very first question in this thread. I agree that homosexuality is not a choice.

I know alot of people are attracted to porn.

Out of curiosity, which Bible verse states that porn is a sin?

Weirder still, some have attractions to little boys or little girls. Some are attracted to rage & violence. And yes some have attractions to the same sex. All are sin attractions. People do not have to give into these various sin attractions.

But then if a person CHOOSES to act on these attractions, it results in sin. Enough of these sins, and God turns us over to our sin.....as Romans above explains.

You've still not done anything to convince me that I should care what Romans says. What is the reason that I should accept what the Bible says?

I've also been told many times that the number of sins doesn't matter, that we are forgiven for our sins by accepting Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. So, where do you fall on this. Does a non-believer who lives a sin-free life get to live at the right hand of God in heaven? Or do people who engage in gay sex get to go to heaven as long as they repent before they die?

So yes, these are choices people act on.

I agree that people make choices about their behavior, but that wasn't my question to begin with. You've agreed with me above, though, that homosexual attraction is natural. We'll have to disagree about the sin part of it, though, because there is no evidence for the existence of a god that has been presented to me that I find convincing, therefore I cannot accept that sin (which you've defined as going against God's law) is a thing that actually exists, either. That said, given that the God of the Bible seems to care more about whether we eat shrimp than whether we own other people as property, even if it could be proven that he exists, I'd have a lot of trouble falling in line with his "law," as I think modern human concepts of morality are far superior (though not perfect) to God's.

I was hoping that you might have some good evidence that might convince me -- if a god exists, I think that's incredibly important to know, so I genuinely am interested in finding out if someone has a good reason to believe -- but, evidently, you don't.

 

[BSIT]

His credentials aren't relevant if his arguments, or those of the already-christians he interviewed are flawed. I've yet to hear a Christian apologetic that wasn't flawed in some way, and Lee Strobel's book is not new, so it seems likely I've heard most or all of them already. Reading the book won't provide me any new information.

To bring things back around, though, my initial question to Buck was how homosexual attraction can be both a natural consequence of our sinful nature AND an unnatural attraction. The concepts of "natural" and of "unnatural" are in direct contradiction with each other, so nothing can logically be both. It'd be like finding a married bachelor. I've still yet to receive a satisfactory answer to that question. So, whether or not there is a God isn't really relevant. I'm stipulating, for the sake of argument, that God DOES exist and trying to understand how he would allow homosexual attraction to emerge if it is "unnatural." If it is, in fact, natural, then it begs the question why God would've invented the concept in the first place, thereby dooming a certain percentage of people to eternal torment. If God thinks homosexual behavior is an abomination, that's fine, but why predispose a large number of individuals to engage in it? And what about people who have never been exposed to the Abrahamic religions who are gay? They don't even get the chance to learn that gay behavior is grounds for infinite torture. I've been told that God is just, but that doesn't sound like justice to me.

You need to read the book and decide for yourself whether he is regurgitating the same old same old. He didn’t and interviewed a lot of people from various backgrounds to come to his conclusion. Remember he was an atheist who needed proof

 

[Droid12345]

You need to read the book and decide for yourself whether he is regurgitating the same old same old. He didn’t and interviewed a lot of people from various backgrounds to come to his conclusion. Remember he was an atheist who needed proof

Why does it matter that he was an atheist? Everyone was born an atheist and continued to be one until convinced otherwise. Most people are convinced by childhood indoctrination. Strobel was convinced by bad arguments later in life. Why should that have any impact on whether those arguments should convince me?

What I'm saying is that I've already encountered his arguments (such as supposed fulfilled prophecy, that some events and locations in the Bible are real, the "empty tomb," etc.) and find them unconvincing. Reading them again won't change that.

As I said above, I was hoping you might provide new evidence or arguments that I've not already seen. So far, that hasn't happened, but I still hold out hope!

 

[Boiler Buck]

One suggestion was to read the Bible, but no one has convinced me that the Bible says anything reliable. I understand the Bible's claims, but don't see evidence for the truth of those claims. The second isa book of flawed Christian apologetics that I've been hearing for years. So, since I'm already aware of the Bible's claims and of the apologetics, that's why I'm asking you in hopes that you may be able to provide some new insight.

It's not a misquote, you said "All are born with a sin nature. This sin nature results in people have different unatural sin attraction tendencies." But, you're changing your statement now, so not really relevant.

So homosexuality is not a choice, which was my very first question in this thread. I agree that homosexuality is not a choice.

Out of curiosity, which Bible verse states that porn is a sin?

You've still not done anything to convince me that I should care what Romans says. What is the reason that I should accept what the Bible says?

I agree that people make choices about their behavior, but that wasn't my question to begin with. You've agreed with me above, though, that homosexual attraction is natural. We'll have to disagree about the sin part of it, though, because there is no evidence for the existence of a god that has been presented to me that I find convincing, therefore I cannot accept that sin (which you've defined as going against God's law) is a thing that actually exists, either. That said, given that the God of the Bible seems to care more about whether we eat shrimp than whether we own other people as property, even if it could be proven that he exists, I'd have a lot of trouble falling in line with his "law," as I think modern human concepts of morality are far superior (though not perfect) to God's.

I was hoping that you might have some good evidence that might convince me -- if a god exists, I think that's incredibly important to know, so I genuinely am interested in finding out if someone has a good reason to believe -- but, evidently, you don't.

Did not say it was natural...you did.

My quote meant we are born flawed...all are sinners in need of repentance and acceptance of the blood of Jesus Christ as payment for that sin.

Guess that is the difference between you and I. I have agreed with God that I am a sinner and repented which means turned from my sins & accepted Christ as my Hope and Savior. .....You want to argue with God and not accept His plan for salvation. Good luck with that.

But to be clear....my position is the following are sins that people CHOOSE to act on as CHOICES:
1. Murder
2. Homosexuality
3. Rape
4. Statuatory rape w/ minors
5. Violence
6. Covetousness
7. Love of Idols
8. Pride
9. Greed
10. Lust (includes porn)
11. Gluttony
12. Sloth
13 Envy
14. Stealing
15. Adulutry

Several more in the Bible....basically any disobeidience to God.

 

[Droid12345]

Did not say it was natural...you did.

You did, too. If sin is a part of our nature, and one of those sins is homosexual attraction, then homosexual attraction is part of our nature. That is, by definition, natural. To say that a person is homosexual is to say that they have homosexual attraction, which must necessarily be natural given your statement about the nature of sinful attraction. That is independent of whether that person engages in homosexual behavior. Indeed, one not need be homosexual in order to engage in homosexual behavior, nor does one need be heterosexual to engage in heterosexual behavior. So, the attraction and the behavior are independent of each other. Are we in agreement that homosexual behavior is a choice, but homosexual attraction isn't?

My quote meant we are born flawed...all are sinners in need of repentance and acceptance of the blood of Jesus Christ as payment for that sin.

Guess that is the difference between you and I. I have agreed with God that I am a sinner and repented which means turned from my sins & accepted Christ as my Hope and Savior. .....You want to argue with God and not accept His plan for salvation. Good luck with that.

As far as I can tell, I can't argue with God because he either doesn't exist or doesn't talk to me. It is impossible to argue with someone who won't respond.

But to be clear....my position is the following are sins that people CHOOSE to act on as CHOICES:
1. Murder
2. Homosexuality
3. Rape
4. Statuatory rape w/ minors
5. Violence
6. Covetousness
7. Love of Idols
8. Pride
9. Greed
10. Lust (includes porn)
11. Gluttony
12. Sloth
13 Envy
14. Stealing
15. Adulutry

Several more in the Bible....basically any disobeidience to God.

Do eating shrimp, wearing mixed fabrics, or working on the sabbath fall into the "several more" category?

 

[BSIT]

What I'm saying is that I've already encountered his arguments (such as supposed fulfilled prophecy, that some events and locations in the Bible are real, the "empty tomb," etc.) and find them unconvincing. Reading them again won't change that.

You don’t know whether he is repeating the same arguments unless you read it. On a separate note, the Bible consists of a total of 66 books written by many authors over hundreds of years separation. Some Of these writers separated by generations wrote about prophetic events that occurred and can be documented to have happened along with future prophecies that will happen.

 

[Droid12345]

You don’t know whether he is repeating the same arguments unless you read it.

So there's no other way to see what arguments he presented? We don't have the technology for that?

On a separate note, the Bible consists of a total of 66 books written by many authors over hundreds of years separation.

I'm aware, though 66 only applies to SOME bibles. The Catholic bible has 73 and Eastern Orthodox has 81. Jews, of course, don't accept the entire New Testament and Mormons added a whole third volume. Which should I accept as true, and why?

Some Of these writers separated by generations wrote about prophetic events that occurred and can be documented to have happened along with future prophecies that will happen.

Is it possible that later generations, knowing and believing in the prophecies already, worked to make them come true? A prophecy coming true is only the first step in demonstrating that the prophet actually knew anything, especially when said prophecies are typically vague and could be answered by various different circumstances, depending on interpretation.

 

[Boiler Buck]

You did, too. If sin is a part of our nature, and one of those sins is homosexual attraction, then homosexual attraction is part of our nature. That is, by definition, natural. To say that a person is homosexual is to say that they have homosexual attraction, which must necessarily be natural given your statement about the nature of sinful attraction. That is independent of whether that person engages in homosexual behavior. Indeed, one not need be homosexual in order to engage in homosexual behavior, nor does one need be heterosexual to engage in heterosexual behavior. So, the attraction and the behavior are independent of each other. Are we in agreement that homosexual behavior is a choice, but homosexual attraction isn't?

As far as I can tell, I can't argue with God because he either doesn't exist or doesn't talk to me. It is impossible to argue with someone who won't respond.

Do eating shrimp, wearing mixed fabrics, or working on the sabbath fall into the "several more" category?

Your relentless, dogged pursuit of this subject shows me you are still arguing with God in your heart. You might not think you are....but your actions show me otherwise.

 

[Droid12345]

Your relentless, dogged pursuit of this subject shows me you are still arguing with God in your heart. You might not think you are....but your actions show me otherwise.

As far as I can tell, there is no god in my heart, nor does that statement make any sense with respect to demonstrated reality. My heart is an organ that pumps blood through my body. If you're using "heart" in a figurative sense to mean "soul," or "spirit," or something, you'll need to demonstrate that those things are real because, again as far as we are able to demonstrate in reality, everything that makes me who I am is a product of a brain and there doesn't seem to be any part of me that exists outside that.

So, again, since god has never spoken to me, how is it that I could be having an argument with him? Like, you're here and you're responding to me. You and I are having an argument, and I can verify that's true because I can see that your replies exist. God has never responded to anything I've ever said, as far as I'm aware, so how could I possibly be arguing with him?

But, anyway, we've gone far afield of where we began. I'm wondering whether you'll answer a couple of the specific questions I've asked about the Bible and about the nature of sin (as opposed to the existence of God at all), since they're more relevant to the thread overall:

1. Is the entire Bible true or just some of it?
2. Do seemingly trivial things like working on Sunday, wearing mixed fabrics, and eating shrimp count as sins since God has commanded against those things?

 

[Boiler Buck]

As far as I can tell, there is no god in my heart, nor does that statement make any sense with respect to demonstrated reality. The heart is an organ that pumps blood through my body. So, again, since god has never spoken to me, how is it that I could be having an argument with him? Like, you're here and you're responding to me. You and I are having an argument, and I can verify that's true because I can see that your replies exist. God has never responded to anything I've ever said, as far as I'm aware, so how could I possibly be arguing with him?

You are correct.....God is indeed not in you now.

Keep arguing with Him though, that is your only Hope for that to change.

In the end every knee will bow and every toungue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. The argument continues in many. Like you many agree they don't need Him, and spend eternity without Him. Others agree that they desperately need Him and spend eternity with Him.

There are no other choices.

 

[Droid12345]

You are correct.....God is indeed not in you now.

Keep arguing with Him though, that is your only Hope for that to change.

In the end every knee will bow and every toungue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. The argument continues in many. Like you many agree they don't need Him, and spend eternity without Him. Others agree that they desperately need Him and spend eternity with Him.

There are no other choices.

I mean, one might think that you would answer my questions so that you could try to convince me and, thus, save me, but I guess not. Instead, you've chosen to just preach at me. Oh well. Have a good day!

 

[Boiler Buck]

I mean, one might think that you would answer my questions so that you could try to convince me and, thus, save me, but I guess not. Instead, you've chosen to just preach at me. Oh well. Have a good day!

You have an assignment. Read the two books suggested and get back with us on your feelings then. Peace.

 

[Droid12345]

You have an assignment. Read the two books suggested and get back with us on your feelings then. Peace.

If you can demonstrate that the Bible's claims are true, and reconcile its inconsistencies and many divergences from demonstrated reality, I'll happily read it. I find it unlikely this will happen, since you refuse to even answer whether you believe the entirety of the Bible is true or not. I'm already aware of Strobel's arguments and find them unconvincing, so no reason to go through them again.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[BuilderBob6]

One suggestion was to read the Bible, but no one has convinced me that the Bible says anything reliable. I understand the Bible's claims, but don't see evidence for the truth of those claims. The second isa book of flawed Christian apologetics that I've been hearing for years. So, since I'm already aware of the Bible's claims and of the apologetics, that's why I'm asking you in hopes that you may be able to provide some new insight.

It's not a misquote, you said "All are born with a sin nature. This sin nature results in people have different unatural sin attraction tendencies." But, you're changing your statement now, so not really relevant.

So homosexuality is not a choice, which was my very first question in this thread. I agree that homosexuality is not a choice.

Out of curiosity, which Bible verse states that porn is a sin?

You've still not done anything to convince me that I should care what Romans says. What is the reason that I should accept what the Bible says?

I've also been told many times that the number of sins doesn't matter, that we are forgiven for our sins by accepting Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. So, where do you fall on this. Does a non-believer who lives a sin-free life get to live at the right hand of God in heaven? Or do people who engage in gay sex get to go to heaven as long as they repent before they die?

I agree that people make choices about their behavior, but that wasn't my question to begin with. You've agreed with me above, though, that homosexual attraction is natural. We'll have to disagree about the sin part of it, though, because there is no evidence for the existence of a god that has been presented to me that I find convincing, therefore I cannot accept that sin (which you've defined as going against God's law) is a thing that actually exists, either. That said, given that the God of the Bible seems to care more about whether we eat shrimp than whether we own other people as property, even if it could be proven that he exists, I'd have a lot of trouble falling in line with his "law," as I think modern human concepts of morality are far superior (though not perfect) to God's.

I was hoping that you might have some good evidence that might convince me -- if a god exists, I think that's incredibly important to know, so I genuinely am interested in finding out if someone has a good reason to believe -- but, evidently, you don't.

Then there's the whole predestination factor........which is referenced many times in the bible. Do we have free will to decide whether we follow God or is that already decided? Do we get to choose to act on our natural attractions or not?

 

[BuilderBob6]

You are correct.....God is indeed not in you now.

Keep arguing with Him though, that is your only Hope for that to change.

In the end every knee will bow and every toungue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. The argument continues in many. Like you many agree they don't need Him, and spend eternity without Him. Others agree that they desperately need Him and spend eternity with Him.

There are no other choices.

My personal favorite, something most religions have in common.

Follow God's laws and and you get rewarded with everlasting life in paradise. Choose not to and torment, sorrow, flames and darkness awaits.

Seems like an easy choice. Positive and negative reinforcement. Do what I say and it's pizza for dinner. If not, if not, it's the switch.

A close second is how we are supposed to fear a loving and just God.

Somehow fearing God means to trust him and appreciate him.

 

[Boiler Buck]

My personal favorite, something most religions have in common.

Follow God's laws and and you get rewarded with everlasting life in paradise. Choose not to and torment, sorrow, flames and darkness awaits.

Seems like an easy choice. Positive and negative reinforcement. Do what I say and it's pizza for dinner. If not, if not, it's the switch.

A close second is how we are supposed to fear a loving and just God.

Somehow fearing God means to trust him and appreciate him.

My trust has evolved over time as I age. The more I do rely on Him, one thing I have found is the more internal peace I have found. Thus He is the God of NOW & eternity....at least for me.

But the difference between Christ and other religions is vast...
1. With Christ it is Done.
2. With other religions....Do, Do Do.

Christ has already died for anyone's sins. It is Done, finished. Anyone that wants to admit they are a Sinner, Repent, and admit they need Christ's blood as payment for their sins can be saved. Thus it is a gift from Christ, you just have to repent and accept it. Grace.

Other false Religions one has to have constant things you have to Do, Do, Do, to gain entrance to their false religion's heaven....it is based on your works.

 

[SKYDOG]

My personal favorite, something most religions have in common.

Follow God's laws and and you get rewarded with everlasting life in paradise. Choose not to and torment, sorrow, flames and darkness awaits.

Seems like an easy choice. Positive and negative reinforcement. Do what I say and it's pizza for dinner. If not, if not, it's the switch.

A close second is how we are supposed to fear a loving and just God.

Somehow fearing God means to trust him and appreciate him.

Well it won’t be to crowded up there with so many not following God’s laws.

 

[Droid12345]

Christ has already died for anyone's sins. It is Done, finished. Anyone that wants to admit they are a Sinner, Repent, and admit they need Christ's blood as payment for their sins can be saved. Thus it is a gift from Christ, you just have to repent and accept it. Grace.

Other false Religions one has to have constant things you have to Do, Do, Do, to gain entrance to their false religion's heaven....it is based on your works.

So other religions determine your eternal fate based on what you do in this life, while Christianity determines your eternal fate based on whether or not you accept that Christianity is true, regardless of what you do in this life? Your list of...

1. admit you are a sinner
2. repent
3. admit you need Christ

...doesn't include anything about how you actually live your life while you're here. So, why does it matter if people sin or not since the criteria for eternal salvation don't include "don't sin?"

Secondarily, how does the supposed fact that you don't have to "do" anything to be saved in Christianity make it true? How do we know the more demanding religion isn't actually the true one? That distinction seems more like a comment on the convenience of one religion over another, not a comment on the truth of one over another.

 

[BuilderBob6]

So other religions determine your eternal fate based on what you do in this life, while Christianity determines your eternal fate based on whether or not you accept that Christianity is true, regardless of what you do in this life? Your list of...

1. admit you are a sinner
2. repent
3. admit you need Christ

...doesn't include anything about how you actually live your life while you're here. So, why does it matter if people sin or not since the criteria for eternal salvation don't include "don't sin?"

Secondarily, how the supposed fact that you don't have to "do" anything to be saved in Christianity make it true? How do we know the more demanding religion isn't actually the true one?

There were those in my church that believed you could live your life however you wanted and do a deathbed confession of your sins, accept Christ as your savior and be saved.......as long as the confession was genuine.

Of course God would know if you were being truthful because he is omniscient.

There's always a catch.

 

[Boiler Buck]

So other religions determine your eternal fate based on what you do in this life, while Christianity determines your eternal fate based on whether or not you accept that Christianity is true, regardless of what you do in this life? Your list of...

1. admit you are a sinner
2. repent
3. admit you need Christ

...doesn't include anything about how you actually live your life while you're here. So, why does it matter if people sin or not since the criteria for eternal salvation don't include "don't sin?"

Secondarily, how does the supposed fact that you don't have to "do" anything to be saved in Christianity make it true? How do we know the more demanding religion isn't actually the true one?

Look like you missed what REPENT means. Turn from your sins. So if you look at porn, commit homosexual acts, are an adulter, murder people, etc......stop. Do it no more.

Again read the Bible and discover. For example there are like 600 prophesies written hundereds of years prior to Christ that point to him. The odds of that are beyond phenomenal. Also like someone said read TCFChrist.

But no.....you won't read, you are so angry, all you want to do is argue.

 

[ecouch]

Did not say it was natural...you did.

My quote meant we are born flawed...all are sinners in need of repentance and acceptance of the blood of Jesus Christ as payment for that sin.

Guess that is the difference between you and I. I have agreed with God that I am a sinner and repented which means turned from my sins & accepted Christ as my Hope and Savior. .....You want to argue with God and not accept His plan for salvation. Good luck with that.

But to be clear....my position is the following are sins that people CHOOSE to act on as CHOICES:
1. Murder
2. Homosexuality
3. Rape
4. Statuatory rape w/ minors
5. Violence
6. Covetousness
7. Love of Idols
8. Pride
9. Greed
10. Lust (includes porn)
11. Gluttony
12. Sloth
13 Envy
14. Stealing
15. Adulutry

Several more in the Bible....basically any disobeidience to God.

1. duh'

2. Gay is a thing, always has been, always will be. Get with it.

3. duh

4. duh

5. This one is so broad it doesn't make sense.

6. This is a good thing.

7. No one cares.

8. This is a good thing.

9. Are you sharing?

10. I can somewhat get on board. Will have to hear the spefics.

11. Well you lost America.

12. Again

13. An impossible ask.

14. Duh

15. An imossible ask.

 

[Droid12345]

Look like you missed what REPENT means. Turn from your sins. So if you look at porn, commit homosexual acts, are an adulter, murder people, etc......stop. Do it no more.

Right, so I can do whatever I want, do all the sinning possible, as long as I stop and then repent I'm still good, according to what you've put here.

Again read the Bible and discover. For example there are like 600 prophesies written hundereds of years prior to Christ that point to him. The odds of that are beyond phenomenal. Also like someone said read TCFChrist.

But we don't have any verifiable evidence that Jesus was who he said he was. It's not even definitive that he actually existed, but I'm happy to grant that he did. But, just because he convinced people that he fulfilled prophecy (prophecies that the people he was talking to were already predisposed to believe) doesn't mean he actually did. There are also many prophecies (and things Jesus himself said) that DIDN'T come true. If it's truly prophecy and from God, shouldn't all of it come true?

David Koresh convinced a bunch of people he was a prophet. Does that make it true?

But no.....you won't read, you are so angry, all you want to do is argue.

If I read the Bible, the only thing I'll discover are the claims that the Bible makes. I'm more interested in whether or not those claims are TRUE. What is the evidence that the things the Bible says are actually true? The Bible is the claim, it is not the proof. Reading it gets us nowhere.



Edit: I have an idea. I take it you believe that you have a relationship with God and he speaks to you, yes? If that's true, ask him what you could say to me that would convince me. If God is all-knowing, surely he'll know what would convince me; and if he's all-powerful, surely he could produce the kind of evidence that would do it. He surely knows that the Bible DOESN'T convince me, so you telling me to read it doesn't get the job done. So, what does God want you to tell me that would convince a non-believer?

 

[Boiler Buck]

1. duh'

2. Gay is a thing, always has been, always will be. Get with it.

3. duh

4. duh

5. This one is so broad it doesn't make sense.

6. This is a good thing.

7. No one cares.

8. This is a good thing.

9. Are you sharing?

10. I can somewhat get on board. Will have to hear the spefics.

11. Well you lost America.

12. Again

13. An impossible ask.

14. Duh

15. An imossible ask.

All sins. Looks like you are another one who wants to write the Bible your way.

Sorry, we are all sinners and fall short. In God's perfection acting gay is as bad a sin as committing a murder, or any of the others He lists.

 

[Boiler Buck]

Right, so I can do whatever I want, do all the sinning possible, as long as I stop and then repent I'm still good, according to what you've put here.

But we don't have any verifiable evidence that Jesus was who he said he was. It's not even definitive that he actually existed, but I'm happy to grant that he did. But, just because he convinced people that he fulfilled prophecy (prophecies that the people he was talking to were already predisposed to believe) doesn't mean he actually did. There are also many prophecies (and things Jesus himself said) that DIDN'T come true. If it's truly prophecy and from God, shouldn't all of it come true?

David Koresh convinced a bunch of people he was a prophet. Does that make it true?

If I read the Bible, the only thing I'll discover are the claims that the Bible makes. I'm more interested in whether or not those claims are TRUE. What is the evidence that the things the Bible says are actually true? The Bible is the claim, it is not the proof. Reading it gets us nowhere.

Point one - no. Read Romans.

Point 2...Sounds like you are determined to stay hate filled, angry & lost then. Sorry.

 

[Droid12345]

Point one - no. Read Romans.

So your list of: 1. admit you are a sinner, 2. repent, and 3. admit you need Christ is an incomplete list?

Point 2...Sounds like you are determined to stay hate filled, angry & lost then. Sorry.

Deflection. Sounds like you can't actually defend your belief, since you haven't really answered any of my questions.

 

[ecouch]

Thank you Alex Jones.

What does it mean to be queer?

 

[ecouch]

All sins. Looks like you are another one who wants to write the Bible your way.

Sorry, we are all sinners and fall short. In God's perfection acting gay is as bad a sin as committing a murder, or any of the others He lists.

I don't care about the bible.

You are a lunatic.

 

[Droid12345]

All sins. Looks like you are another one who wants to write the Bible your way.

Ah, so you believe the entire Bible IS true, then. Finally, an answer to one of my questions! Unfortunately, the entire Bible CAN'T be true because it contradicts itself at times.

Sorry, we are all sinners and fall short. In God's perfection acting gay is as bad a sin as committing a murder, or any of the others He lists.

That's....uh....disturbing for you to say. All sins are the same? Stealing, murder, and dishonoring your parents are all equivalently bad? That's just bonkers and would seem to imply that God's sense of morality is spectacular flawed. Thankfully our legal system doesn't work according to the same principle, recognizing that, in fact, some crimes are worse than others. Seems odd that an all-knowing god wouldn't be able to recognize that some bad things are worse than other bad things, no?

Also, you've said that sinning is a choice, but then your list of sins includes things that people have no choice over (lust, for instance). You're just as inconsistent as the Bible, though, so I guess that tracks.

 

[SCBoiler1]

How do you know that the Bible leads to salvation?

So the New Testament cancels out the Old Testament? Does the Old Testament not apply anymore thanks to the New Covenant?

Droid12345, thank you for your responses. Your well thought out responses are quite impressive. It's obvious you've given a lot of thought to the subject. As someone who was brought up in a Christian household, my journey away from religion has been liberating. It's amazing how obvious things become once you allow yourself to look at religion objectively.

 

[SKYDOG]

Droid12345, thank you for your responses. Your well thought out responses are quite impressive. It's obvious you've given a lot of thought to the subject. As someone who was brought up in a Christian household, my journey away from religion has been liberating. It's amazing how obvious things become once you allow yourself to look at religion objectively.

Pretty amazing that you can look at religion objectively, but can’t see the forest through the trees on politics.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Pretty amazing that you can look at religion objectively, but can’t see the forest through the trees on politics.

You just can't help yourself. Even in a thread when you're claiming the moral high ground.