Truth Social's in disarray

[charlespig]

JFC. If I hear the Putin Puppet line again. It just shows your echo chamber regurgitation. What policy did he enact that was pro Putin?

How about withholding military aid to Ukraine unless they helped him find dirt on the Bidens? Are you denying that happened? Or how about threatening to pull out of NATO? You can be pissed about NATO countries not spending 2% GDP on defense, but to pull out? These matters should be dealt internally behind close doors with allies, not making it a reality show.

As late as April 2020, Trump and Putin were still making public statements about cooperating with Russia. That was after the embarrassment at Helsinki when he sided with Putin over our own intelligence. Even after Russia attacked Ukraine, Trump was still sucking up to Putin and calling the move genius and savvy. How supportive! Are you denying those too?

Trump and Putin issued a symbolic statement for US and Russia to 'build trust, and cooperate,' raising fresh concerns about their relationship

In the statement, both Trump and Putin said they sought to cast their differences aside and cooperate on major issues.

www.businessinsider.com

Trump calls Putin 'genius' and 'savvy' for Ukraine invasion

The former president's praise for Putin comes at a perilous geopolitical moment in Europe.

www.politico.com

The goal of the last administration was to limit Russia’s ability through choking their economic engine.

Oh wait, I thought it is the Biden administration going the extreme to kick Russia off SWIFT, sanctioning Putin and his cronies, and a long list of Russian companies? Won't you agree these are a lot stronger action than whatever Trump has done, as what U.S. should have done to someone who has interfered with our election? Or are you denying that Russia interfered even though the Mueller Report clearly told us so? (Note, I am talking about INTERFERENCE, not COLLUSION)

What the Mueller report tells us about Russian influence operations

The redacted Special Counsel report released this morning confirms that the Russian government, through various proxies, carried out a multi-pronged campaign against the United States before, during, and after the 2016 election.

www.brookings.edu

Anyway, I am not that concerned about Trump since he's just an ex-Presiden, but how Conservatives like Tucker Carlson repeatedly defending Putin, or that the CPAC welcomed Putin's ally.

Tucker Carlson defended Vladimir Putin again, suggesting Italy poses a bigger threat than Russia because of its slightly larger economy

"The Italians, in other words, are in a better position to take over the world than Vladimir Putin," Carlson said, citing GDP, not military spending.

www.businessinsider.com

US conservatives welcome Hungary’s autocratic leader to CPAC

Orban’s invitation to CPAC reflects conservatives’ growing embrace of the Hungarian far-right leader whose country has implemented hardline policies against immigration and LGBTQ rights…

www.mercurynews.com

 

[BuilderBob6]

JFC. If I hear the Putin Puppet line again. It just shows your echo chamber regurgitation. What policy did he enact that was pro Putin? He tried to undercut his gas deals in Europe by going directly to the EU within months of taking office? He did everything to stop Nordstream 2. (almost immediately reversed by current admistration). He unleashed US energy industry to drive down oil and gas hurting Putin’s revenue sources? He took extremely hard lines against Russian proxies Iran and Syria. In 4 years what territory did Putin take? Seriously. The goal of the last administration was to limit Russia’s ability through choking their economic engine. You think Putin could invade Ukraine on $50/brl oil? No.

And yeah he pissed off NATO because he and his State Department said out loud what was true. NATO members were sending billions to Putin and we were funding their defense with our kids future. And guess what. It’s still happening. If you don’t know you should expand your international sources. Some “allies.”

#IndependentThought

The trump campaign changed the republican platform position on Ukraine......taking out language saying the US would arm Ukraine to fight back against Russian and rebel forces. Manafort denied having any involvement, as did trump. But it happened.....somehow.

His language was consistently pro Putin. He said publicly the people of Crimea would rather would be with Russia than Ukraine. He denied Russia was involved in the 2016 election. He's denied Putin has had anyone killed (Do you think our country is so innocent?). He proposed creating a cyber unit WITH Russia. He did not want to put sanctions on Russia for their election interference but had no choice as it was had overwhelming bipartisan support. He said the Soviet Union was right to invade Afghanistan. He asked allies the let Russia back into the G7. He sided with Russia on the bounty question and refused to even discuss it with Putin. Helsinki?

Trump wanted Europe to buy OUR natural gas. He didn't "unleash" the energy industry to hurt Russia. Whatever actions he may have taken were intended to HELP us. To frame those actions as being designed to hurt Russia is just poor misdirection on your part.

Hard lines against Russian proxies? Again, our policies had nothing to do with that. It may have been a bi product of our actions, but it wasn't the intent. But anyone familiar with the situation at the time will tell you our bizarre withdrawal from Syria and abandoning our Kurdish allies opened the door for more Russian influence in the region.

NATO was an integral part in the fall of the iron curtain......and millions of Eastern European citizens now live as free citizens. Trump wanted to dismantle it. What could be more beneficial to Putin?

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Oh yes he does.

PolitiFact - Does the president have 'the ability to declassify anything at any time'?

The blockbuster article in The Washington Post saying President Donald Trump had "revealed highly classified information

www.politifact.com

And since he said he did they are now declassified no matter how anyone spins it.
The only question is SHOULD he have declassified some of the documents.

That is patently false. He cannot just say SAP and SCI are declassified, especially now as a private citizen. Those classifications are tightly controlled and would be marked as declassified and deserialized if he had done that. He didn’t. He’s trying to make morons like you believe he can do that because you will lap up literally anything he says as fact. You don’t know what the hell you are talking about, and you look like and even bigger idiot than usual by continuing to push this declassification farce because Don said so. Stop.

 

[Crayfish57]

That is patently false. He cannot just say SAP and SCI are declassified, especially now as a private citizen. Those classifications are tightly controlled and would be marked as declassified and deserialized if he had done that. He didn’t. He’s trying to make morons like you believe he can do that because you will lap up literally anything he says as fact. You don’t know what the hell you are talking about, and you look like and even bigger idiot than usual by continuing to push this declassification farce because Don said so. Stop.

Speaking of being a moron..........

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Speaking of being a moron..........

Oh, hello Shadow. Can’t comment on topic, as usual, so you’re just expressing your admiration of me by pulling on my coat sleeve like a toddler again, I see. There there little Trumpkin. It’ll all be over soon.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Nice try, but a brash New Yorker is not an excuse to take top secret documents and refuse to return them after the government has been requesting them for MONTHS.



That's your opinion, not a fact. I don't consider pissing off our NATO allies a good policy. It only emboldens Putin. I also don't consider sucking up to Putin a good policy (need I remind you about Helsinki again?). It also only emboldens Putin.




Huh?!? His CFO pleaded guilty. His fixer admitted he was doing shady things for him and was thrown to jail. His campaign manager went to jail. His advisors were found guilty. Just google Allen Weisselberg, Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone. It's like a mafia boss and his subordinates were all guilty of crimes one way or another. And you make it sound like the mafia boss is innocent, even when he pleaded the Fifth 450 times. Excuse me, but who said why pleaded the Fifth if one is innocent?

And when you talk about taking billions of dollars to investigate, you mean the Mueller Report? Mueller himself made it clear that what he found DID NOT EXONERATE TRUMP. He just didn't have enough evidence to press charges, so it is absolutely wrong to conclude that "Trump hasn't done." But it didn't stop "real TDS" people to believe it exonerated Trump.




Well, when you dismissed everything that Trump has done as no big deal, of course Trump looked totally fine. The documents found at MAL were top secret, and there are now reports suggesting that those documents involved US intelligence and might put US spies at risk. But whatever they are, they are classified information. Weren't you guys up in arms against Hillary Clinton for her mishandling of classified information? Wasn't it why Trump made it a felony for those who mishandled classified info? So what's the difference between Hillary and Trump? Why are you only b!tching at Hillary but keep looking for excuses for Trump? I mean, Trump has MONTHS to return the docs to the government and he didn't.



WTF?!? Beau Biden served in the military and was a respect attorney general of Delaware. It was unfortunate that he died early. Now I am not gonna defend Hunter Biden. He probably got some money using his family name from Ukraine and I have no problem having an investigation. But was he getting to the tunes of $2 billion, like Jared Kushner is getting from the Saudis?

How Did Jared Kushner Get $2 Billion From the Saudis?

Hint: It’s not because of his track record as an investor.

www.bloomberg.com

Coz he is acting precisely like a mafia boss, and his subordinates took all the blame and went to jail for him. I'd argue that if one believes Trump had no idea what his CFO was doing all these years, that's TDS. I'd argue if Trump had no idea what Kushner was getting from the Saudis, that's TDS. Yet we have people here that cling to every single Biden's policy and gives Trump a total pass on all his shenanigans. That's TDS.

WAAAY too much BS in there to unpack. I'll just let you have fun with your little theories.

 

[Boilermaker03]

No, he doesn't have the power to declassify as ex-President.

Also, even with declassification, it still has to be done at the time, not retroactively. He can't just take those documents to MAL, and then claimed he declassified them 2.5 years ago.

Furthermore, if those docs are declassified as Trump claimed, does that mean anyone can request them (through Freedom of Information Act)? If not, are those docs really "declassified"?

Lastly, even if I concede that somehow miraculously he indeed declassified them 2.5 years ago, it was still not HIS property. He has absolutely no reason to hold on to them after the government requested to have them back.

How hypocritical when people were gunning after Hillary while giving Trump a free pass!

You guys are letting the media spin on this story get you more confused than need be.

 

[Boilermaker03]

JFC. If I hear the Putin Puppet line again. It just shows your echo chamber regurgitation. What policy did he enact that was pro Putin? He tried to undercut his gas deals in Europe by going directly to the EU within months of taking office? He did everything to stop Nordstream 2. (almost immediately reversed by current admistration). He unleashed US energy industry to drive down oil and gas hurting Putin’s revenue sources? He took extremely hard lines against Russian proxies Iran and Syria. In 4 years what territory did Putin take? Seriously. The goal of the last administration was to limit Russia’s ability through choking their economic engine. You think Putin could invade Ukraine on $50/brl oil? No.

And yeah he pissed off NATO because he and his State Department said out loud what was true. NATO members were sending billions to Putin and we were funding their defense with our kids future. And guess what. It’s still happening. If you don’t know you should expand your international sources. Some “allies.”

#IndependentThought

Truth bombs here. Too bad they are too deep in the echo chamber.

 

[Boilermaker03]

How about withholding military aid to Ukraine unless they helped him find dirt on the Bidens? Are you denying that happened? Or how about threatening to pull out of NATO? You can be pissed about NATO countries not spending 2% GDP on defense, but to pull out? These matters should be dealt internally behind close doors with allies, not making it a reality show.

Yes, this didn't happen because Biden hadn't even announced he was running for president yet. So why would Trump want to "find dirt" on Biden?

The truth is that Trump wanted to assess if the country was still corrupt before just sending aid. Ukraine is known for it's corruption. The president of Ukraine also denied that Trump withheld aid as a quid pro quo, but that little tid bit of reality never seeps into the heads of those on the left.

He threatened to pull out of NATO because we were funding the whole GD thing. Everyone else weren't paying their share that everyone agreed to. So he threatened to leave unless everyone else finally stepped up and did their part. Guess what. They did. How is that not a win? Only the left media would spin that into something bad and you swallowed it.

Oh wait, I thought it is the Biden administration going the extreme to kick Russia off SWIFT, sanctioning Putin and his cronies, and a long list of Russian companies? Won't you agree these are a lot stronger action than whatever Trump has done, as what U.S. should have done to someone who has interfered with our election? Or are you denying that Russia interfered even though the Mueller Report clearly told us so? (Note, I am talking about INTERFERENCE, not COLLUSION)

WTF are you blathering about? If it weren't for the GD debacle in Afghanistan and the shitty energy policies, Putin would have never invaded. So there would be no need for Trump to give stronger sanctions. Lots of countries try to interfere with our elections. Are we supposed to get into a sanctioning war with all of them? How do you think that would end?

 

[Droid12345]

Yes, this didn't happen because Biden hadn't even announced he was running for president yet. So why would Trump want to "find dirt" on Biden?

Another incorrect claim from you. Biden announced his candidacy 4/25/2019. The "perfect phone call" was 7/25/2019.

Everyone else weren't paying their share that everyone agreed to.

The inaccuracy of the "paying their fair share" characterization aside, the agreement was to spend 2% of GDP on defense BY 2024, which, you'll note, we STILL haven't reached yet. It's ok for Trump to say "hey, you know that agreement we have? You all should get there faster." It's NOT ok for him to say "hey, you know that agreement we have? We're leaving unless you get there 4 years in advance of the timetable we set."

Note: I am aware that Trump didn't say specifically what I put in quotes. The point is that the statement that NATO allies were not meeting their agreement is patently false, because we haven't even reached the deadline of said agreement, so it must necessarily follow that we definitely had not reached the deadline of the agreement 3 or 4 years ago.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Another incorrect claim from you. Biden announced his candidacy 4/25/2019. The "perfect phone call" was 7/25/2019.

Sorry, I misspoke. He wasn't the candidate. He was running, but wasn't THE candidate yet.

The inaccuracy of the "paying their fair share" characterization aside, the agreement was to spend 2% of GDP on defense BY 2024, which, you'll note, we STILL haven't reached yet. It's ok for Trump to say "hey, you know that agreement we have? You all should get there faster." It's NOT ok for him to say "hey, you know that agreement we have? We're leaving unless you get there 4 years in advance of the timetable we set."

Note: I am aware that Trump didn't say specifically what I put in quotes. The point is that the statement that NATO allies were not meeting their agreement is patently false, because we haven't even reached the deadline of said agreement, so it must necessarily follow that we definitely had not reached the deadline of the agreement 3 or 4 years ago.

"Since the summit, some progress has been made in strengthening the alliance. NATO members have increased defense spending, deployed forces in Central and Eastern Europe, and begun investing in needed capabilities. In 2019, almost all NATO allies increased their defense spending, with nine countries hitting the 2 percent goal.2 Most allies have put plans in place to substantially increase defense spending by 2024.3 The alliance is stronger and better prepared to deter Russia than it was six years ago, despite the divisive approach of President Donald Trump, but significant gaps remain. Marginal spending increases by various NATO members were inherently fragmented and often yielded few new major capabilities or failed to address some of NATO’s serious shortfalls. Meanwhile, many member states still have yet to adequately invest in their forces, leading to very low states of readiness and operational strain. Lack of progress toward the 2 percent benchmark has also caused major diplomatic tension within the alliance between the countries meeting their commitments and those that are not.4"

NATO’s Financing Gap

NATO needs to think beyond the 2 percent pledge to close its capabilities gap.

www.americanprogress.org

 

[Droid12345]

Sorry, I misspoke. He wasn't the candidate. He was running, but wasn't THE candidate yet.

I gotta be honest, I don't think you misspoke. I think you just didn't bother to look it up before saying something you thought would be a mic drop moment.

If he was running, he was a candidate. Is it now your position that since Biden wasn't "THE" candidate, your claim that Trump would have no reason to try to get dirt on him still holds? Like, if he wanted dirt on his actual opponent, that you could see maybe possibly being true, but, clearly, no one would bother trying to get dirt on someone who is merely a POTENTIAL opponent? Is that what you're now saying since your initial statement was false?

Why look for a loophole? You were wrong, that's all. It's ok to be wrong sometimes, it happens to all of us.

"Since the summit, some progress has been made in strengthening the alliance. NATO members have increased defense spending, deployed forces in Central and Eastern Europe, and begun investing in needed capabilities. In 2019, almost all NATO allies increased their defense spending, with nine countries hitting the 2 percent goal.2 Most allies have put plans in place to substantially increase defense spending by 2024.3 The alliance is stronger and better prepared to deter Russia than it was six years ago, despite the divisive approach of President Donald Trump, but significant gaps remain. Marginal spending increases by various NATO members were inherently fragmented and often yielded few new major capabilities or failed to address some of NATO’s serious shortfalls. Meanwhile, many member states still have yet to adequately invest in their forces, leading to very low states of readiness and operational strain. Lack of progress toward the 2 percent benchmark has also caused major diplomatic tension within the alliance between the countries meeting their commitments and those that are not.4"

NATO’s Financing Gap

NATO needs to think beyond the 2 percent pledge to close its capabilities gap.

www.americanprogress.org

Relevance? Are you just making the argument that Trump's rhetoric worked, so it was therefore ok to threaten the alliance altogether? If so, that has nothing to do with what I said. You made an incorrect claim that the NATO allies weren't meeting their agreement, to which I responded with the actual fact that the agreement was for 2024, so it is necessarily impossible to be in violation of said agreement at this point.

I also said there's nothing wrong with Trump, or any other US president, trying to get NATO allies to accelerate spending increases. The means by which one does that, though, matter. That's all I'm saying.

 

[bullsfan321]

Well, when you dismissed everything that Trump has done as no big deal, of course Trump looked totally fine. The documents found at MAL were top secret, and there are now reports suggesting that those documents involved US intelligence and might put US spies at risk. But whatever they are, they are classified information. Weren't you guys up in arms against Hillary Clinton for her mishandling of classified information? Wasn't it why Trump made it a felony for those who mishandled classified info? So what's the difference between Hillary and Trump? Why are you only b!tching at Hillary but keep looking for excuses for Trump? I mean, Trump has MONTHS to return the docs to the government and he didn't.

Let me know when Trump's locked room gets hacked and Wikileaks posts the docs.

 

[Crayfish57]

Oh, hello Shadow. Can’t comment on topic, as usual, so you’re just expressing your admiration of me by pulling on my coat sleeve like a toddler again, I see. There there little Trumpkin. It’ll all be over soon.

The only thing I do with your coat sleeve is wipe my ass on it. ''Trumpkin'', the sign of am immature petulant little boy. Why don't you go play in Bobby's backyard I hear he has a swingset.

 

[Boilermaker03]

I gotta be honest, I don't think you misspoke. I think you just didn't bother to look it up before saying something you thought would be a mic drop moment.

If he was running, he was a candidate. Is it now your position that since Biden wasn't "THE" candidate, your claim that Trump would have no reason to try to get dirt on him still holds? Like, if he wanted dirt on his actual opponent, that you could see maybe possibly being true, but, clearly, no one would bother trying to get dirt on someone who is merely a POTENTIAL opponent? Is that what you're now saying since your initial statement was false?

What would be the point for Trump to dig up dirt on Biden and ONLY Biden when it wasn't clear he was going to get the nomination? Use your brain for a second.

Relevance? Are you just making the argument that Trump's rhetoric worked, so it was therefore ok to threaten the alliance altogether? If so, that has nothing to do with what I said. You made an incorrect claim that the NATO allies weren't meeting their agreement, to which I responded with the actual fact that the agreement was for 2024, so it is necessarily impossible to be in violation of said agreement at this point.

I also said there's nothing wrong with Trump, or any other US president, trying to get NATO allies to accelerate spending increases. The means by which one does that, though, matter. That's all I'm saying.

I just linked an article that states that many countries were not putting in their share to reach the 2% in time and it was causing issues. Now I agree that Trumps methods could have been better, but the end result is what matters.

 

[BoilerJS]

There is no proof, no documentation he declassified anything. There are specific procedures.......you know, so everyone in the government with access not named trump knows it has been declassified. How are agencies or personnel who are responsible for the classified files supposed to know? Was there a reason he declassified the files, other than he wanted to take them out of the secure area to do some homework? Is that wise?

Kash Patel is making the argument. Do you have a link that shows any other former trump official saying it? Is there any documentation saying trump declassified the files before the warrant was served? Or did it just come to light after the files were seized?

You don't get it Bob. The POTUS has SOLE AUTHORITY to declassify anything he wants.
Whenever he wants, however he wants. By bringing the documents out of the WH he declassified them.
If you want to argue that some of the documents were to sensitive and sholdn't have been declassified than OK.
But all the documents were in a secure location and guarded by SS agents.

 

[BoilerJS]

That is patently false. He cannot just say SAP and SCI are declassified, especially now as a private citizen. Those classifications are tightly controlled and would be marked as declassified and deserialized if he had done that. He didn’t. He’s trying to make morons like you believe he can do that because you will lap up literally anything he says as fact. You don’t know what the hell you are talking about, and you look like and even bigger idiot than usual by continuing to push this declassification farce because Don said so. Stop.

Of course he can't do it as a private citizen. He did it as POTUS leaving the WH.

 

[bonefish1]

Okay, let me clarify here, not that it matters since your brain is so rotted. Just because he could, doesn’t mean he did. And he can’t do it retroactively when he’s a private citizen.

It’s so weird that you think all of this is fine yet get apoplectic about a mythical laptop.

You get proven wrong, so you change your story......At least you can admit when you're wrong. Which is often.

 

[Droid12345]

What would be the point for Trump to dig up dirt on Biden and ONLY Biden when it wasn't clear he was going to get the nomination? Use your brain for a second.

Could it possibly be because, even though there were other candidates, Ukraine could only provide dirt on Biden? What information could Trump have gotten from Ukraine about Amy Klobuchar? Could it also possibly be that, even though there were other candidates, Trump might have thought Biden was his most likely foe? Use YOUR brain for a second.

Also, regardless of Trump's reasoning, it is established fact via the transcript of the phone call that Trump wanted to get information on Biden before sending the aid that had already been approved by Congress. As we know from the timeline of events, only when he was called out on it did he go ahead and send the aid. Trump's impeachment defense didn't even deny these events, by the way, so you don't get to use the fact that he wasn't convicted by the Senate as evidence that he didn't really do it. They simply argued that it wasn't an impeachable offense.

I just linked an article that states that many countries were not putting in their share to reach the 2% in time and it was causing issues.

For the third time, it is fine to try to get them to accelerate. Some countries going slower than we or other members might like does not constitute a violation of the agreement, however. The agreement was that by 2024, all members would spend 2% on their own defense. Only in 2024 can it be determined who complied and who didn't. There's nothing to say a country can't spend 1% in 2022, 1% in 2023, and then up it to 2% in 2024. That'd be a weird way to do it, rather than ramping up over time, but it would still technically be in compliance with the agreement.

Aside from all of that, nobody owes anybody else any money. The characterization that we were paying for everyone else's defense and they were somehow derelict in what they owed us is just dumb. We are always paying for our own defense. It just happens to be our policy that maintaining forces in Europe is something that we think is good for US. That it's good for those countries, too, is a side-effect. NATO allies coming into compliance with the agreement saves us no money, nor does it indicate that we would start receiving more money from them. They don't owe us money, which is how Trump characterized the whole thing.

Now I agree that Trumps methods could have been better, but the end result is what matters.

Ah yes, because we've never seen "the ends justify the means" turn sideways on anyone.

I think this is the third time on the board I've addressed the NATO thing, and, despite the way the funding model actually works in reality and the what the agreement actually says in reality, you and several others cling to this idea that our allies were somehow delinquent. This is simply not true, despite the fact that we might want them to do more earlier.

Anyway, I grow weary of the discussion. Have a good one.

 

[bonefish1]

There is no proof, no documentation he declassified anything. There are specific procedures.......you know, so everyone in the government with access not named trump knows it has been declassified. How are agencies or personnel who are responsible for the classified files supposed to know? Was there a reason he declassified the files, other than he wanted to take them out of the secure area to do some homework? Is that wise?

Kash Patel is making the argument. Do you have a link that shows any other former trump official saying it? Is there any documentation saying trump declassified the files before the warrant was served? Or did it just come to light after the files were seized?

The reason doesn't matter. You may not like the reason or think it's valid, but that doesn't matter. As POTUS, he has the ability to do so for whatever tickles his fancy.

 

[BNIBoiler]

You don't get it Bob. The POTUS has SOLE AUTHORITY to declassify anything he wants.
Whenever he wants, however he wants. By bringing the documents out of the WH he declassified them.
If you want to argue that some of the documents were to sensitive and sholdn't have been declassified than OK.
But all the documents were in a secure location and guarded by SS agents.

You are totally wrong. Even though the president has the power to de-classify documents, there is a particular process to de-classify and just taking them out of the White House is NOT one of them. There is still a process. At the minimum, sensitive wording is redacted. If the documents at Mar-A-Lago were not redacted, then they were not declassified.

 

[bonefish1]

JFC. If I hear the Putin Puppet line again. It just shows your echo chamber regurgitation. What policy did he enact that was pro Putin? He tried to undercut his gas deals in Europe by going directly to the EU within months of taking office? He did everything to stop Nordstream 2. (almost immediately reversed by current admistration). He unleashed US energy industry to drive down oil and gas hurting Putin’s revenue sources? He took extremely hard lines against Russian proxies Iran and Syria. In 4 years what territory did Putin take? Seriously. The goal of the last administration was to limit Russia’s ability through choking their economic engine. You think Putin could invade Ukraine on $50/brl oil? No.

And yeah he pissed off NATO because he and his State Department said out loud what was true. NATO members were sending billions to Putin and we were funding their defense with our kids future. And guess what. It’s still happening. If you don’t know you should expand your international sources. Some “allies.”

#IndependentThought

I think it's funny that Pig is worried that Trump pissed off NATO.....Who gives a $hit! What's NATO going to do, kick out the US? Screw NATO. When they quit relying on the US financially and militarily, then they can complain. The NATO countries who were holding up their end of the bargain were upset because Trump was calling them out.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

Of course he can't do it as a private citizen. He did it as POTUS leaving the WH.

No… he didn’t. Had he, there would’ve been record of it and there wouldn’t even be an investigation by the FBI as to why SAP and SCI went missing.

You simply can’t be this gullible and stupid. I think if Trump went and said he was half goat you would believe it.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

The reason doesn't matter. You may not like the reason or think it's valid, but that doesn't matter. As POTUS, he has the ability to do so for whatever tickles his fancy.

You are right. But with SAP and SCI, it is serializad and maintained in inventory. He cannot walk out with it just because he wants to. Even the President has to follow national security protocol. IF he had declassified it, there would be no investigation by the FBI because NARA would not have referred it to them. There’s an investigation, so…

He didn’t declassify anything. He made up the standing order (which wouldn’t be a legal thing anyway) to cover himself, to distract and feed his idiot followers something they would buy hook, line, and sinker.

Regardless of the classification, it is still illegal to possess material related to defense and national security, which SAP always is and SCI too. Either way, he’s completely in the wrong here and you guys need to come to grips with that.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Could it possibly be because, even though there were other candidates, Ukraine could only provide dirt on Biden? What information could Trump have gotten from Ukraine about Amy Klobuchar? Could it also possibly be that, even though there were other candidates, Trump might have thought Biden was his most likely foe? Use YOUR brain for a second.

Also, regardless of Trump's reasoning, it is established fact via the transcript of the phone call that Trump wanted to get information on Biden before sending the aid that had already been approved by Congress. As we know from the timeline of events, only when he was called out on it did he go ahead and send the aid. Trump's impeachment defense didn't even deny these events, by the way, so you don't get to use the fact that he wasn't convicted by the Senate as evidence that he didn't really do it. They simply argued that it wasn't an impeachable offense.

For the third time, it is fine to try to get them to accelerate. Some countries going slower than we or other members might like does not constitute a violation of the agreement, however. The agreement was that by 2024, all members would spend 2% on their own defense. Only in 2024 can it be determined who complied and who didn't. There's nothing to say a country can't spend 1% in 2022, 1% in 2023, and then up it to 2% in 2024. That'd be a weird way to do it, rather than ramping up over time, but it would still technically be in compliance with the agreement.

Aside from all of that, nobody owes anybody else any money. The characterization that we were paying for everyone else's defense and they were somehow derelict in what they owed us is just dumb. We are always paying for our own defense. It just happens to be our policy that maintaining forces in Europe is something that we think is good for US. That it's good for those countries, too, is a side-effect. NATO allies coming into compliance with the agreement saves us no money, nor does it indicate that we would start receiving more money from them. They don't owe us money, which is how Trump characterized the whole thing.

Look, it's been a really long time since this stuff happened. I remember the media's version of this story and I remember the facts actually coming out. Trump wasn't trying to bribe or use a quid pro quo to get dirt. He was trying to make sure corruption wasn't happening. Money tends to vanish in Ukraine when it gets donated there. It's a huge issue in their past. Burisma and the person that owns it is one of the oligarchs that is a major problem over there. Biden kept him and Burisma from being investigated. He even bragged about it. Yet the media spun that in a way that was false as well. I just don't feel like digging all of that up again.

Ah yes, because we've never seen "the ends justify the means" turn sideways on anyone.

I think this is the third time on the board I've addressed the NATO thing, and, despite the way the funding model actually works in reality and the what the agreement actually says in reality, you and several others cling to this idea that our allies were somehow delinquent. This is simply not true, despite the fact that we might want them to do more earlier.

Anyway, I grow weary of the discussion. Have a good one.

I never said the ends justify the means. That suggests that I don't care how it happened, but it happened. I simply said that the end result matters. I would prefer that he did it differently.

 

[indy35]

Look, it's been a really long time since this stuff happened. I remember the media's version of this story and I remember the facts actually coming out. Trump wasn't trying to bribe or use a quid pro quo to get dirt. He was trying to make sure corruption wasn't happening. Money tends to vanish in Ukraine when it gets donated there. It's a huge issue in their past. Burisma and the person that owns it is one of the oligarchs that is a major problem over there. Biden kept him and Burisma from being investigated. He even bragged about it. Yet the media spun that in a way that was false as well. I just don't feel like digging all of that up again.

I never said the ends justify the means. That suggests that I don't care how it happened, but it happened. I simply said that the end result matters. I would prefer that he did it differently.

Nearly everything you said here is completely incorrect.

 

[BNIBoiler]

Nearly everything you said here is completely incorrect.

These folks from Chumptown are something else. They’ve been twisting themselves into knots for several days now and it is sickening. He is a Faux News viewer for sure.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

No… he didn’t. Had he, there would’ve been record of it and there wouldn’t even be an investigation by the FBI as to why SAP and SCI went missing.

You simply can’t be this gullible and stupid. I think if Trump went and said he was half goat you would believe it.

What if he said, “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot people my supporters would still vote for me.”

 

[Crayfish57]

These folks from Chumptown are something else. They’ve been twisting themselves into knots for several days now and it is sickening. He is a Faux News viewer for sure.

Ah the chumptown idiot speaks again. How much of your day do you spend coming up with stupid names to call people? I mean is that a black thing or just a BNIchump thing?

 

[BuilderBob6]

Look, it's been a really long time since this stuff happened. I remember the media's version of this story and I remember the facts actually coming out. Trump wasn't trying to bribe or use a quid pro quo to get dirt. He was trying to make sure corruption wasn't happening. Money tends to vanish in Ukraine when it gets donated there. It's a huge issue in their past. Burisma and the person that owns it is one of the oligarchs that is a major problem over there. Biden kept him and Burisma from being investigated. He even bragged about it. Yet the media spun that in a way that was false as well. I just don't feel like digging all of that up again.

I never said the ends justify the means. That suggests that I don't care how it happened, but it happened. I simply said that the end result matters. I would prefer that he did it differently.

wow. And how did trump make sure there wasn't corruption happening in Ukraine? An investigation? Could he have asked one of several US or allied intelligence agencies? Maybe he had Rudy look into it. He was in the area anyway.......over and over.....the president's personal attorney with no clearances, traveling all over the region, working with Lev Parnas, trying to dig up dirt on the Bidens.

How many times was corruption brought up in the perfect phone call?

Vintage trump. Get caught and make up some BS. Like the recent "standing order" after the fact nonsense.

 

[SKYDOG]

wow. And how did trump make sure there wasn't corruption happening in Ukraine? An investigation? Could he have asked one of several US or allied intelligence agencies? Maybe he had Rudy look into it. He was in the area anyway.......over and over.....the president's personal attorney with no clearances, traveling all over the region, working with Lev Parnas, trying to dig up dirt on the Bidens.

How many times was corruption brought up in the perfect phone call?

Vintage trump. Get caught and make up some BS. Like the recent "standing order" after the fact nonsense.

It’s not hard to dig up dirt on the Biden’s. From his daughters diary, to Hunters deals, to Joe’s deals. The people who could do something about it refuse to do so or even report on it.

 

[Crayfish57]

It’s not hard to dig up dirt on the Biden’s. From his daughters diary, to Hunters deals, to Joe’s deals. The people who could do something about it refuse to do so or even report on it.

Bob wouldnt even need his shovel and wheelbarrow for that!

 

[BNIBoiler]

Ah the chumptown idiot speaks again. How much of your day do you spend coming up with stupid names to call people? I mean is that a black thing or just a BNIchump thing?

Is it a white thing for you to be racist? Keep it up and you will he in the dog house like tearsforfears.

 

[Crayfish57]

Is it a white thing for you to be racist? Keep it up and you will he in the dog house like tearsforfears.

What was racist? I asked a serious question . All you do is make up racist names to call everyone I was merely curious if it was just you? I worked with a black guy , he was actually cool though, and he say something funny smack me on the back and say its a black thing and laugh.

 

[BNIBoiler]

What was racist? I asked a serious question . All you do is make up racist names to call everyone I was merely curious if it was just you? I worked with a black guy , he was actually cool though, and he say something funny smack me on the back and say its a black thing and laugh.

You have people on the board calling Kamala Harris cammytoe and a whore. Or, calling Biden, Brandon, sleepy Joe among other things. I call president 45, Chump and you call me out and ask if it is a black thing.

Then you mention a black dude that you work with and say “he was actually cool though”. As if other black folks aren’t cool.

 

[Crayfish57]

You have people on the board calling Kamala Harris cammytoe and a whore. Or, calling Biden, Brandon, sleepy Joe among other things. I call president 45, Chump and you call me out and ask if it is a black thing.

Then you mention a black dude that you work with and say “he was actually cool though”. As if other black folks aren’t cool.

Only referring to you and I dont make up names. You make everything you post about race so I was merely asking a question.The second part about Harris isnt a made up word and is the truth though.

 

[BNIBoiler]

Only referring to you and I dont make up names. You make everything you post about race so I was merely asking a question.The second part about Harris isnt a made up word and is the truth though.

I don’t know what you right wingers have against black women.

 

[gr8indoorsman]

What if he said, “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot people my supporters would still vote for me.”

I think he could actually shoot his supporters and then say, “They were Antifa and it’s fake news. They shot themselves.” And his supporters would say, “Yeah, they deserved it anyway because it’s his right to carry and shoot people as President.”

 

[Crayfish57]

I think he could actually shoot his supporters and then say, “They were Antifa and it’s fake news. They shot themselves.” And his supporters would say, “Yeah, they deserved it anyway because it’s his right to carry and shoot people as President.”

You become a bigger moron with every post you make.

 

[BoilerJS]

You are totally wrong. Even though the president has the power to de-classify documents, there is a particular process to de-classify and just taking them out of the White House is NOT one of them. There is still a process. At the minimum, sensitive wording is redacted. If the documents at Mar-A-Lago were not redacted, then they were not declassified.

Ok, show me the proof of the requirements the POTUS must comoplete before declassifying documents.
I thiknk a number of Supreme Court Rulings and the Constitution will prove this law hard to find.
And I don't want some typical protocal procedure that has been customary.
Trump's downfall and yet his success was because he didn't follow the Norm.